My dog attacked by a Pit Bull ... second time in a year

[Tom Fischer]

First attack I posted about it here last year.
Happened at a tractor show.
Got some replies, Pit Bulls are dangerous.
Others in denial about that, dogs are so sweet.
***
Second attack is this past Saturday
My problem now is that this dog is owned by my neighbors son, recently broke up w/GirlFriend, moved back in with Mom and Dad, etc.
Was walking onto my neighbors yard holding my dog by the collar, bringing over a bag of sweet corn from the DWs garden.
Real neighborly.
Knew the son had recently moved in with a Pit butt.
Never seen the dog.
"Oh, that dog's a total Mush, wouldn't hurt a fly"
As I walked past the side of the house, didn't see the dog, hear a sound (barking growl, etc), until screaming from my dog.
The pit bull was somewhere in the corner, had jumped onto my dog, biting, locked down on my dog's hind leg.
I can't pull them apart. The son finally comes out of the house, gets his dog off.
My dog has bite marks/lacerations all over his thigh, groin. His dog was not touched, not bitten once.
****
24 hours goes by, neighbor never calls, give me any info on Rabies shots etc.
So I drive over the next day, he says "My son's dog has all his shots, but won't be any problem. Dogs will be dogs"
Now my dog will barely go outside, afraid the Pit Bull next door is loose and will attack him again.
***
I don't get it.
From my experience with pit bulls, they are NOT dogs, they are alligators with fur.
How come they are still legal anywhere in the U.S. (they are illegal in many countries in Europe + banned in all of Australia)
***
When I was at WalMart yesterday, bought an aluminum baseball bat.
If my neighbors "total mush" ever comes on my property, he's gonna get the grand slam swing on the skull
***
2012 dog bite fatalities (http://2012 dog bite fatalities) (in the U.S.)38 total, 23 deaths by "pitties" (all of them total "mushes" before they killed somebody)

[Mike Cutler]

Grew up with Pit's, and they were great dogs then. We abused the living day lights out of those dogs and they never bit one kid. But,,,,,,, they were hell on other dogs and cats.
Bottom line is that they are on the hook for your Vet bills, which I would definitely let them know are coming, and I would definitely notify animal control that the Pit is loose and un restrained. I'm fairly certain NJ has some strict ordnance requirements on the keeping of Pit's.
I would also let them know in no uncertain terms that you will defend your dog to the detriment of theirs.
I'm not a fan of the bat though, too easy to connect with your dog by accident. Pepper spray, and an ASP would be my choice.

[Dan Hintz]

Did you call the police and animal control over this? What would have happened if the dog decided to attack you instead of your dog? Was it on a leash or roaming free?

[Jay Jolliffe]

I had a quite large black lab years back & he defended himself against the neighbor hood pit bull & beat the s*** out of him. I had to pay all the vet bills & it didn't matter that the pit bull attacked my dog...The pit bull loved people but not other dogs...I cant stand the dogs...

[Jim Matthews]

Don't waste time on this.

Call animal control now.
Call every time the dog is out, unleashed and build the case for removal.

It sounds to me like you'll either lose your neighbors as friends if you act, your dog if you don't.
(That "dogs will be dogs" is a cop out, and indicates inattention on the part of the owner who likely has no command over his dog.)

One attack in your own yard is too many.

[David Weaver]

Animal control. They're not in position to say "dogs will be dogs" when they're the offender.

Whose property were you on with your dog, were you on a sidewalk/public property or were you on theirs? That would make a great deal of difference here, and if on their land after knowing there was a new PB, I'm curious why walk the dog with you?

I'd still call animal control either way. The neighbors are probably dreaming up ways to get nasty if you do, but I'd do it, anyway.

[Ed Griner]

The biggest problem with the majority of dog owners is the think dogs speak english,have never taken a minimal obedience course,don't have the slightest idea how to deal with animal/dog behavior. Caesar has made a fortune of the reoccurring theme of "It ain't the dog it's the owner" and he is right. Time for dog owners to wake up,it isn't the SPCA's or the cop's job to take care of your dog,that's your responsibility!

[Sal Kurban]

Sorry to hear the predicament of your dog. When my dog was attacked or got into fights, the best way to separate fighting dogs is a water hose if there is any nearby. Or any water poured on them. Worked like a charm for me.
Sal.

[Stephen Cherry]

I think that people generally get these dogs due to feelings of inadequacy about themselves.

[Clarence Martin]

Depending on the State, a Dog Warden in that situation would have the legal right to put that dog down.

[Lee Schierer]

Did you call the police and animal control over this? What would have happened if the dog decided to attack you instead of your dog? Was it on a leash or roaming free?

I totally agree. Some communities have totally banned pit bulls because unless they are extremely well trained they are overly protective and tend to attack, particularly other dogs near their turf. Call animal control and present your neighbors son with the vet bill as he is liable for the damage done by his dog.

[Jim Matthews]

In an extreme case, where there's an imminent threat or repeat offenses - perhaps.

That's not likely to happen on the first call, but the first visit from animal control
will put the dog owner on notice. That only happens if someone calls.

[Jim Matthews]

I'm not sure that would be effective against the Am Staff or variants known as Pit Bulls.

They were bread to be tenacious, and endure tremendous hurts in fighting situations.
Most of them are so large as to be unmanageable, when they're aggressive.

It's the rare owner that can get a handle on a dog that has already shown aggression toward other dogs.

My concern is that if the neighbor of the OP doesn't revert to the living arrangement prior to the attack you're
likely to hear about one or two dead dogs. It's clearly preventable, but that's not the national trend,
not where Bullies are concerned.

My guess is that the Son moved in with Mom because he couldn't find a place that would accept his dog.
That's a SWAG, but insurance rates for rentals are based on the tenants and their pets.

[Mike Chance in Iowa]

While I'm sorry to hear your dog was injured, I have to agree with David. Reading your post above, you knew the neighbors son had moved in with a dog. You chose to bring your dog on to their property while holding it's collar. It doesn't matter if your dog is social or not, you don't know if their dog is.

There are so many factors involved that people simply do not understand. It is not just a "pit" issue. Many people just laugh off or ignore a "little" or "toy" dog that is acting aggressive or bites because they are easier to disengage from the bite. All dogs are capable of biting and being aggressive for what we consider "no reason" at all, but for those who study animal psychology and behavior and what is known as the bite threshold, there is always a reason. It's us humans that can't see what that reason was. The reason dog X bit dog Y could be because it was taken away from siblings at a too young age and never learned doggy-social skills as a pup; the owner was fearful and the dog thought it was protecting it's human; or that it had been attacked last week and is now on the offensive towards any dog it sees. It takes a lot more then a 30-minute training session with a dog to even scratch the surface and not everything that so-called "expert" on TV says and does to boost his ratings is the solution.

I'm not saying this to point fingers at who is wrong and who is right and who is liable or debate eliminating pits. The fact is, everyone needs to open their eyes and not focus on the wrong thing. There are many factors involved in what happened. For example, by holding your dog's collar, you may have been putting your dog in a physical position which made it look aggressive towards the neighbor's dog. (Accept it. We mere humans only guess at the emotion the dog is feeling when we see it in various positions. We need to factor ear position, eyes, mouth, hair, tail position, etc.)

The fact is, it is up to the human to be responsible for their pet. Whether it is protect them from a potential harmful situation or to prevent them from doing harm to others. I will not bring my dog on to someone else's property without 1) letting them know I am bringing my dog, 2) knowing if their dog is social or not. If their dog is aggressive or the owner is clueless, there is no way my dog will set foot on their premise.

While this doesn't relate to dog bites, I think every dog owner should read the entire article on dog aggression/inappropriate behavior called "He Just Wants to Say Hi" at www[dot]suzanneclothier[dot]com/the-articles/he-just-wants-say-hi and learn a thing or two.

I'll get off my soapbox now.

[Kevin Bourque]

Pit bulls are the sweetest dogs ever... until they're not!

[David Weaver]

We went round and round on this the last time this subject came up. It's not about the number of bites, but the severity that some breeds can inflict. There are a lot of dogs that bite often and have low severity, but it wouldn't worry me to live next to them with small children.

[Pat Barry]

Personally I would want more than a verbal OK from your neighbor that the dog has ALL his shots. I would want to see the veterinary reports. Rabies, distemper, bordatella,... what exactly are ALL the shots anyway.

[John Coloccia]

As a responsible dog owner...former dog owner as we just had to put him down, RIP...I can say with some certainty that it would never cross my mind to wander around my neighbors yard with my dog, especially if I knew they owned their own dogs and hadn't properly been introduced.

[Sal Kurban]

(...)
My guess is that the Son moved in with Mom because he couldn't find a place that would accept his dog.
That's a SWAG, but insurance rates for rentals are based on the tenants and their pets.

An interesting piece of information regarding insurance information:

http://money.msn.com/home-insurance/10-dog-breeds-that-rile-up-insurers

Sal.

[Tom Fischer]

I think that people generally get these dogs due to feelings of inadequacy about themselves.
Yes, quite likely the case.
Also makes any resolution of the problem very difficult.
Somebody is in denial, and it's not me.
***
There is a local breeder of Visulas.
Several years ago, one dog became unpredictable, bit her daughter, required stitches.
The dog was euthanized immediately.
There was no complex psychological need for a violent dog.

[Tom Fischer]

2012 dog bite fatalities (http://2012 dog bite fatalities) (in the U.S.)



That link isn't working.
It's here
http://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-fatalities-2012.php#mary-jo-hunt
A real eye opener just to scroll through that page.
Many of of the people who were mauled to death owned those Pit Bulls.
Also, there is a tragic death of one Mary Jo Hunt (53 years old of Pembroke, NC)
She was operating a Pit Bull Rescue from her house.
Seven pit bulls in the house.
They killed her.
***
I think the common denominator for all these tragic deaths is that the breed is very unpredictable, and prone to massive violence.

[Tom Fischer]

Did you call the police and animal control over this? What would have happened if the dog decided to attack you instead of your dog? Was it on a leash or roaming free?
The pit bull was on a rope lead in the son's yard.
I still have not called animal control.
Weighing the options ...

[Tom Fischer]

Sorry to hear the predicament of your dog. When my dog was attacked or got into fights, the best way to separate fighting dogs is a water hose if there is any nearby. Or any water poured on them. Worked like a charm for me.
Sal.
thanks for the thoughts, but this is not about "dog fights", this is about pit bull attacks.
Legislation in one state (I think it was Maryland), compares it to a shark attack.
I've been reading up on it, offer this -
Pit bulls were breed (designed) to fight with four broken legs.
It's the killing machine of the dog world.
***
Thanks, but a hose would be useless.
Baseball bat - I have heard locally that it can work.
The internet accounts indicate that Police use a hand gun.

[Tom Fischer]

I totally agree. Some communities have totally banned pit bulls because unless they are extremely well trained they are overly protective and tend to attack, particularly other dogs near their turf. Call animal control and present your neighbors son with the vet bill as he is liable for the damage done by his dog.

List of Pit bull restrictions in the U.S.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/56495216/Estimated-U-S-Cities-Counties-States-and-Military-Facilities-with-Breed-Specific-Pit-Bull-Laws

[Tom Fischer]

As a responsible dog owner...former dog owner as we just had to put him down, RIP...I can say with some certainty that it would never cross my mind to wander around my neighbors yard with my dog, especially if I knew they owned their own dogs and hadn't properly been introduced.

Yes, good point, but as said, I was assured that the dog was a "total mush", and was "so old, he could hardly stand up"
Also, we do live in the country, 6 acre yard. Somewhat informal.
Until now, my dog was pretty free to roam.
Now, he will barely go outside, shell-shocked, keeps worrying that the pit bull next door will get free and come over here.

[Paul McGaha]

Tom,

I'm really sorry to hear that your dog was attacked again. Really bad luck to have that happen to your dog a 2nd time. I hope the dog recovers well and is not ever attacked again.

If I were in your position I think I would contact the police or animal control. You never know, it might save another dog from being attacked. Or worse.

PHM

[Jerome Stanek]

My question is why are you taking the dog over there when you see your neighbors dog out.

[Tom Fischer]

My question is why are you taking the dog over there when you see your neighbors dog out.
Because my neighbor was insisting that the dog was a total "mush" would never hurt a fly.
Same thing for his son, who owns the dog.
And I did NOT see the dog outside (he was laying in a corner), and he neither growled nor barked before attacking.
The reason I was walking over there (and holding my dog by the collar) was to give my neighbor a bag of sweet corn from the DWs garden.
Old school stuff, maybe too old school. I guess those days are over.
***
Saturday was the first time I had ever seen the dog, and hopefully the last.

[Tom Fischer]

List of Pit bull restrictions in the U.S.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/56495216/Estimated-U-S-Cities-Counties-States-and-Military-Facilities-with-Breed-Specific-Pit-Bull-Laws

Been reading more about his "Pit bull culture"
It really must be a cult, because I don't understand why these dogs aren't banned everywhere.
Totally irrational.
Check this out. Certainly meets or exceeds my definition of insanity.
And these are the people fighting to prevent restrictions on Pit Bull ownership:
Pregnant Pit Bull Advocate Fatally Attacked By Her Pit Bull

http://www.complex.com/pop-culture/2011/08/pregnant-pit-bull-advocate-fatally-attacked-by-her-pit-bull

[Mike Chance in Iowa]

Tom,
I understand you are upset, but you need to keep an open mind. dogbite.org is not a true organization. It is run by one woman. Anyone can create a .org web site and make it look like something it's not. Pits are not the only dogs that bite. BSL & such propaganda is not the answer. Responsible dog ownership & education will prevent fewer incidents from happening. Most of the incidents that happen are due to irresponsible dog handling and lack of supervision. Do some good. Take some time and start reading about & understanding animal behavior & training, as well as animal aggression and preventing it. Read some books by Jean Donaldson, Turid Rugaas, Karen Pryor, Ian Dunbar, Pat Miller, Sheila Booth, Desmond Morris to name a few.


I have not read the previous post about the attack, but your posts lead to rational questions. Your dog has been attacked twice. Why did you bring your dog over when you had not personally met the new dog and assessed it's temperament? Why is a baseball bat a solution instead of a fence? If your dog was attacked on your property, why have you not protected your dog by fencing his area to prevent this from happening again? Why are you allowing your dog to roam free, unsupervised? While your dog is roaming, how do you know it is not harassing livestock, chasing kids on bikes, chasing riders on horseback, killing chickens or getting into people's garbage? Why is your property not fenced?


I am not saying this to attack you. I am hoping you will open your eyes and look at the big picture. I grew up in the country in the 19xx's and we let our dogs roam free while we spent all day miles away doing kid stuff. That's what you did back then. We are in 20xx now and times have changed. We carry doggy bags which do not involve restaurant leftovers that we plan to eat.


Take this latest attack as a learning experience. We teach our kids to never go up to a strange dog without permission from the owner. Why should we be any different as adults? Now it's time to teach ourselves how to be responsible dog owners.


My acreage perimeter is securely fenced to keep my animals in and predators out, but I can assure you if someone brings their unleashed dog on to my property, unannounced, they will be greeted with a nasty roar that won't be coming from the dogs. I'm not going to have anyone threaten or blame me because my horse injured their dog when it ran under the cross-fence into her pasture or my "pack" did what pack dogs do and surround a strange dog on their property to sniff it and a fight ensues.

[Tom Fischer]

Tom,
I understand you are upset, but you need to keep an open mind.

Mike, thanks for the thoughtful reply

"Why did you bring your dog over when you had not personally met the new dog and assessed it's temperament?"
Both the owner and the owner's father (my neighbor) assured me that the dog was harmless "could barely stand up", "a total mush".
I am starting to wonder if that is a standard refrain for Pit Bull owners.
Or maybe there's a some denial of reality for people who own pit bulls.

"Why is a baseball bat a solution instead of a fence?"
I mentioned a fence to my neighbor on Sunday morning. He was very dismissive, "Oh, no, you don't have to do that". (More denial of reality?)

"While your dog is roaming"
He's not really roaming.
My neighbor used to put table scraps out in the bushes/hedgerow (no idea why, and that stuff he was throwing into the bushes/hedgerow was actually on my property)
So my dog would wander over there fairly regularly looking for table scraps.
I asked him on Sunday to stop doing that. He said he already stopped.

BTW, the first pit bull attack was at a public place (a tractor show).
The people who run the show immediately ejected the owner of the pit bull.

[Mel Fulks]

Tom,you're a good guy. Sorry you're going through this. Some good comments here,but dog experts don't know everything about dogs ,admit they are not completely predictable,and say that the smartest ones are about as smart as
a two year old child. Books about dogs are not going to be any help here. Saw a case where a woman's own sweet dog
sudenly tore her face off. Demand proof of the dog's shots, that is the law here .probably most places.

[Mike Chance in Iowa]

Mike, thanks for the thoughtful reply

"Why did you bring your dog over when you had not personally met the new dog and assessed it's temperament?"
Both the owner and the owner's father (my neighbor) assured me that the dog was harmless "could barely stand up", "a total mush".
I am starting to wonder if that is a standard refrain for Pit Bull owners.
Or maybe there's a some denial of reality for people who own pit bulls.


I have to say it once again. It is not just pit bulls and owners that are the problem. The bloodiest incident I have witnessed involved a clueless owner walking his unleashed "sweet" golden retriever in a city neighborhood and it attacked a dog sleeping on it's on porch. I had a neighbor who had 2 labs that swore his dogs "never wandered far off the property" yet they attacked a horse and killed the foal that was pastured over 1 mile away. (This was the same clueless neighbor who's wife was coming home from work and killed their previous black lab as it wandered the street in the dark winter hours.)

I let my sheep loose (perimeter is fenced) to graze other areas of the property. If you came on to my property with your dog, I can guarantee that your dog would have been injured by one of my sheep. We have one that will leave the flock and ram any new dog it sees - even from hundreds of feet away. Since this sheep has rammed several dogs, it has a known aggressive history. Does this mean you are going to try to initiate BSL on sheep and have my breed banned? I'm not saying this to be a jerk. I'm just pointing out that by saying all pits are evil and should be banned, is not going to solve anything. It shows lack of education. We are allowed to sit anywhere we want to on the bus nowadays as long as we can all behave. :-)

So, while your neighbor was dismissive about the fence, what are you going to do about it to protect your dog? Waiting around while holding a bat is not a solution. I would not wait around for someone else to be the responsible person while I do nothing. I would install a fence on my own property.

Sorry to sound like a jerk, but a tractor show is no place to bring a dog. Too many clueless people walking around looking at tractors instead of paying attention to what their dog and other people's dogs are doing. I like having a dog with me, but I know better then to take it to public events. I have a relative who brags about putting a vest on their "sweetest dog ever" and say it's a service dog so they can take it everywhere. (It's very aggressive and attacks dogs all the time, but they just say it was 'grumpy' and it was the other dog's fault, while giving true service dogs a bad reputation.)

[Dave Sheldrake]

I'm no dog expert (I have only ever owned 2 in my 47 years) that said, anything that weighs half as much as me with inch long teeth isn't going to be trusted.I don't care who the owner is or what the circumstances are.

Many years ago my wife was cornered in OUR garden by a loose rotty from a few houses away, the owner seemed to find it quite funny until he saw the gun. He had two simple options, remove the animal from my property in one piece or in several. After a visit from the local police (we have a weird attitude to guns here, they aren't everyday items) I got support from the Police in my actions who said if I had a "genuine fear" for my wife's safety or welfare I would be fully entitled to open fire on the dog. I hate the idea of harming any living creature (with the exception of some types of people) but forced into a choice.....well the wife would have come first without hesitation.

Pit Bull Terriers are banned breeds here unless very stringent requirements are met.

https://www.gov.uk/control-dog-public/banned-dogs

just my opinion of course

Dave

[Mel Fulks]

Good for you,Dave!. There are some people who seem normal in most ways but get a kick out of having their dog intimidate someone . Sometimes when we take our cats to the vet there will be someone with a smirk on his face allowing
his dog to get very close to cat carriers rather than use short leash.

[Charlie Velasquez]

It is not just pit bulls and owners that are the problem..... clueless owner walking his unleashed "sweet" golden retriever in a city neighborhood and it attacked a dog sleeping on it's on porch. ...... 2 labs (snip) attacked a horse and killed the foal that was pastured over 1 mile away. I'm just pointing out that by saying all pits are evil and should be banned, is not going to solve anything........We are allowed to sit anywhere we want to on the bus nowadays as long as we can all behave. ...... while your neighbor was dismissive about the fence, what are you going to do about it to protect your dog? Waiting around while holding a bat is not a solution. I would not wait around for someone else to be the responsible person while I do nothing. I would install a fence on my own property .......

Mike, you made a number of comments. Could you expound a little?
1. You described a couple of events with labs and a retriever. Obviously the sleeping dog on his own porch was not the problem. The horse and foal did nothing wrong. You said a bat was not a solution. What is the solution to stop this from happening again, and more importantly, from happening the first time, because obviously the first time was one too many for the foal?

2. Are you a pet owner? Have you put up a fence to protect your pet? You said you have sheep. Have you installed a fence that will prohibit other animals from coming on your pasture?

3. Who should be the responsible one?

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Folks,

Let's tone a down a notch.

Keep it friendly and unaggressive.

[Steven Green]

My son has a brindle pit that is all muscle and a sweet dog. However she is territorial and truly aggressive towards other dogs and animals. She tried on my pyrenees a few days ago and in a few seconds realized the error of her strategy. I've had dogs all my life, aggressive docile dominant territorial you name it. It's the owner who is at fault unless the dog turns around bites the hand that feeds it causing intsant leash drop it's always gonna be the owner. Sorry to disagree but that's the way I see it and probably always will. Make the owner pay the freight and hopefully he'll pony up for a fence and whatever else it takes to control the dog and be responsible

[Mike Chance in Iowa]

Mike, you made a number of comments. Could you expound a little?
1. You described a couple of events with labs and a retriever. Obviously the sleeping dog on his own porch was not the problem. The horse and foal did nothing wrong. You said a bat was not a solution. What is the solution to stop this from happening again, and more importantly, from happening the first time, because obviously the first time was one too many for the foal?
The solution is for the owner of the dogs to be responsible for them and not just expect a dog to know how to behave in human society and human rules with no training or thought put into it. The golden owner should have been walking his dog on a leash to prevent it from running on to someone's property and attacking the dog on it's own porch. He should have trained his dog to recall. The labs owner should have fenced his property and not allow them to roam free or found a new home for them. He already had several complaints filed with the city and county due to the dogs roaming loose and he chose to do nothing other then come home every so often to pour dog food on the ground. After the horse incident, he was sued for $110k by the horse owner. Last time I looked, the horse owner upgraded their horse fencing to prevent dogs from getting in.


2. Are you a pet owner? Have you put up a fence to protect your pet? You said you have sheep. Have you installed a fence that will prohibit other animals from coming on your pasture?
Yes. See previous post. We have (herding breed) dogs, cats, chickens, sheep, goats and down to one old horse. Entire perimeter acreage is fenced with goat-proof/dog-proof/coyote-proof fencing & hot-wire and the horse pasture is cross-fenced with horse fence. Chicken coop even has buried fence to prevent any potential predator or rodent from getting in. That said, no fence is totally secure when you factor in wild animals, falling trees and impaired drivers. I'm not your average pet owner. I'm certainly no expert, but have learned a lot over the years and hope to continue to learn. I trained bomb dogs years ago as well as trained police dogs to do their jobs. Our dogs are pets, but also working farm dogs. One even does agility and other obedience events with our daughter and she takes him to visit seniors in town after she had him certified to do therapy visits.
I owned what would be labeled an aggressive dog 20 years ago. At the kennel where the momma was, he was severely mauled by 3 hunting dogs when he was 4 weeks old in a fluke incident. He was given to me at 12 weeks and he would put on a huge show of teeth and growling whenever he saw a new dog, yet he had no intention to fight. He just wanted to keep dogs away from mauling him again. When taking him into town to help me rotate sheep for a friend, I regularly had to deal with strangers wanting their dog to say hi to the "unusual mutt" (He was a Picardy) and I had to get forceful with (yell at) the human to "stay back!" before my dog exploded in his display. I learned with this dog, that when the clueless human with a strange dog was headed our way to "say hi," that I needed to step in front of him and protect him and all was well. Best dog I have owned. He taught me to open my eyes and look around that there is more then just owning a dog; there is more then one way of training a dog; and just like people, not all dogs behave the same. Had I not learned this and done nothing, no doubt there would have been fights and bites and tears.
Friends & neighbors with dogs are allowed on our property as long as we know in advance and their dog is leashed and under control and supervised at all times.


3. Who should be the responsible one?
We should all be responsible for our own actions. If you own an animal, take responsiblity for it. Educate yourself about it's care. Keep an open mind. Learn from your experiences and do what you can make things better.

[Roger Feeley]

Here's my take. You can talk about the climate and you can talk about weather. Pit Bulls as a breed are capable of great harm (Climate). Individual blood lines within the breeds may be more or less likely to be agressive (micro-climate) Individual dogs might be harmless or vicious (weather).

I can say this about the breed. My sister-in-law's father (Eugene Hoy) was chief artist for Ralston Purina back in the days when they put all those dog portraits on the bags. He was the guy that painted the dogs. Purina maintained a kennel where champion dogs would come to be painted. I was researching something about Gene and was corresponding with a co-worker of his. Without being asked he made this statement:

"There was exactly one breed we did not invite to our kennels. That was the Staffordshire Terrier (pit bull). The dogs are aggressive towards other dogs and too unpredictable."

My take is that any dog can lash out given the right circumstances. I have two dogs (7 and 15 lbs) and I am very careful when people want to interact with them. I don't fully trust any dog including my own. That said, I can control my dogs but it would take a lot to control a truly angry pit bull. If you can't control the dog, don't have the dog. With a Pittie, I wouldn't want to try.

One more anecdote. Many years ago, my brother and his wife had two dalmations. One day, while walking the dogs in the park, they both suddenly broke away, ran across the park and shredded a little Yorkshire Terrier on a leash. As my brother tells it, one moment, they were two happy go lucky dogs and the next, they were hunters. The dogs were put down that day. My brother and wife had just adopted a new baby. My point here is that these dogs had given no previous indication of aggression.

[Roger Feeley]

Mike, your link went someplace wierd. I suggest that people google Suzanneclothier and go from there. There are a number of articles about aggression.

[Steve Meliza]

Dog attacks another dog while on his home turf. Sorry, not going to be liable for anything in most places.

I was going to suggest pepper spray and hollow points, but I guess you only have access to the former.

[David Weaver]

Many years ago my wife was cornered in OUR garden by a loose rotty from a few houses away, the owner seemed to find it quite funny until he saw the gun. He had two simple options, remove the animal from my property in one piece or in several. After a visit from the local police (we have a weird attitude to guns here, they aren't everyday items) I got support from the Police in my actions who said if I had a "genuine fear" for my wife's safety or welfare I would be fully entitled to open fire on the dog. I hate the idea of harming any living creature (with the exception of some types of people) but forced into a choice.....well the wife would have come first without hesitation.


Years ago, I lived about a mile from someone who had two dogs that were known to accost visitors and be awfully hard on other dogs (on and off property). The owners of the dogs had a party one saturday night (which where I grew up rural meant extremely loud music and dozens to hundreds of people -things can get much larger and louder there before someone calls the police than they could ever get in a suburban area) and someone called the police to complain about the noise. The police arrived at the property, the dogs greeted them (whether the owner did that on purpose, I don't know) and the police shot the dogs dead immediately. Everyone cheered, the story had a happy ending.

[Tom Fischer]

Dog attacks another dog while on his home turf. Sorry, not going to be liable for anything in most places.

"Most" is probably not correct.
Pit bulls are already illegal in numerous countries in western Europe, all of Australia, and many cities in the U.S.
also

"In a 2012 ruling involving the mauling of a child, Maryland's highest court held that pit bulls are "inherently dangerous". It made pit bull owners, and landlords renting to tenants who own a pit bull, strictly liable (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strictly_liable) for any injuries caused during an attack by a pit bull."
(strictly liable means 100% liability, zero excuses, such as "the dog was on my property")
source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pit_bull

[Tom Fischer]

Dog attacks another dog while on his home turf. Sorry, not going to be liable for anything in most places.

And even if that was "mostly" true, the legal trend is going in the opposite direction.
***
I inquired about having a koi pond installed in my yard a few years ago (6 acre property).
I wanted a "good" pond, at least 3 feet deep.
Turns out that the building ordinance (I think it is State of NJ code) any pond over 2 feet deep is a hazard, and requires a 4' high pool-standard fence.
The thinking being that if a neighbor's toddler wanders over, he/she will not be protected from my hazard.
"On my property" is not a defense, and the act of trespassing is not relevant.
***
Granted this is insurance companies in action, but they have to mitigate the hazards that policy owners will not.
Eventually Pit bulls will be illegal in the U.S. No way around that.

[Steve Meliza]

"Most" would refer to those parts of the USA that are still free and recognize that a dog of any breed may defend its property against the uninvited. As a citizen of a free state I refuse to accept the laws of the UK, Australia, Canada, NJ, NY, IL, CA, or similar as to what is right and just. I use logic and reason for that.

I'm not saying that I feel the pit bull owners did the right thing, just that I don't think they legally or morally should have an obligation to compensate you for the attack. Now as a good neighbor they should, but those are not as common as they used to be.

[Tom Fischer]

any breed may defend its property against the uninvited.

Where did the word "defend" come in?
What was my neighbor's dog defending?
***
I have checked with my homeowner's insurance company (LIberty Mutual)
I am covered for any injuries inflicted by my dog (Irish Setter)
But Liberty Mutual DOES NOT cover injuries inflicted by homeowners with Pit Bulls (and about 9 other aggressive breeds.)
The woman at Liberty Mutual said that is pretty much industry standard now.
In other words, my neighbor most likely does not carry any insurance for his dog.
Nor (most likely) do most of the other owners of Pit Bulls in the United States.
***
How does this go on?