Does new bench hardware impact "best" bench design?

[Mike Holbrook]

I know, I know there are more than a few posts on bench design and yes I made more than my share still...

It has occurred to me recently that some of the newer bench accessories may "solve" issues we may have tried to solve with bench design in the past. Chris Griggs made a post concerning how he solves some clamping/dog issues he faces with his Nicholson bench. Chris mentions using the new Veritas Planing Stop on his top, as the Nicholson design complicates access to the underside of the bench top, which is an issue with regular dogs. Schwarz demonstrates planing against similar shop made jigs that he clamps to his top in his DVD on bench design. It seems to me that planing against two of these devices (on two sides of the board) would have merits above planing against just the one.

The other device I find particularly interesting is the Veritas Bench Blade. Both of these devices have a low clearance but can not sink down into through holes causing access issues. The Bench Blade can also create up to 300 lbs of clamping force. The wedge lock version "is usable at any angle from horizontal to vertical, and anchors firmly in any 3/4" diameter through-hole in material as thin as 5/8" (depending on the strength of the material), or in blind holes that are a minimum of 1-3/8" deep." What's not to like about a wider, low profile, arguably more versatile clamping surface?

I know there is an argument against any metal planing stop, but these are so low, 5 degree angle built in, manufactured to Veritas' high standards. Some people, especially those with the square wooden or metal dogs, leave their dogs in the bench level with the top and push them up when needed, which certainly may be an advantage of that system. Still it seems to me that devices like the Veritas Planing Stop and Bench Blade may: 1) solve access issues to the underside of the bench 2) at least reduce the importance of having dog holes close to the front edge of the bench...

[Jim Koepke]

There are unlimited ways for wood to be worked and benches to be built.

So many of our possible solutions may introduce new challenges to working how we prefer to work.

My solution to this problem is to just use dogs that are dropped in from the top.

There is also a stop clamped to the end of my bench. It is just a piece of scrap with a couple of C-clamps. It is raised and lowered as needed for planing stock. In my opinion, this type of planing stop is why one is supposed to lift their plane on the back stroke.

If you cut a lot of rabbets or molding, dog holes close to the front edge allow the stock to hang over the edge so the plane's fence can ride on the workpiece and not the bench. Of course, there are also other ways of doing this.

The Veritas Surface Clamps (http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=57059&cat=1,41637) seemed like a good idea to me at one time. They are a well made accessory and do work well. For some reason I stopped using them. Just now looking at them again makes me wonder why they do not get used. Oh yea, my pair of holdfasts do all that work now.

The Bench Blade seems more useful if one is working the same size stock regularly to clamp against a fixed stop.

Having a lathe makes a difference to my bench design. If a dog is needed, it can just be turned out of some scrap and the head can be made to my desire.

Also can make them out of a piece of dowel and attach a head as needed.

jtk

[Mike Holbrook]

I like the idea of a stop clamped to the end, opposite the end that will hold my Veritas QR Tail vise. I think leaving it as a clamp on may be a good idea, at least until I see if it would be in the way of other work.

I just picked up the rest of the wood to make my new bench. I got delayed on my project due to some skin issues with my hands. I have had lots of extra time to think about bench design while waiting for my hands to get healthy. The front edge of my bench has been the challenge for me. I think the the Veritas Surface Clamps, Planing Stop, Bench Blade, Hold-Down...provide options for clamping both to the top and front side of the bench that may help with the limitations of the design I am working on. I do not have a lathe, although I have been considering a small one for tool handles, chair legs....Maybe after I figure out if I can get the two workbenches and other items I have into the space I have. The Veritas Planing Stop and Bench Blade are not very expensive so I don't see any real reason not to try them out. As you mention holdfasts may be a simpler answer. I am a little curious about how much wear holdfasts might cause in dog holes in a 1 3/4-2" thick stretcher vs Surface Clamps, Bench Blades or dogs?

[Jim Koepke]

I like the idea of a stop clamped to the end, opposite the end that will hold my Veritas QR Tail vise. I think leaving it as a clamp on may be a good idea, at least until I see if it would be in the way of other work.

I just picked up the rest of the wood to make my new bench. I got delayed on my project due to some skin issues with my hands. I have had lots of extra time to think about bench design while waiting for my hands to get healthy. The front edge of my bench has been the challenge for me. I think the the Veritas Surface Clamps, Planing Stop, Bench Blade, Hold-Down...provide options for clamping both to the top and front side of the bench that may help with the limitations of the design I am working on. I do not have a lathe, although I have been considering a small one for tool handles, chair legs....Maybe after I figure out if I can get the two workbenches and other items I have into the space I have. The Veritas Planing Stop and Bench Blade are not very expensive so I don't see any real reason not to try them out. As you mention holdfasts may be a simpler answer. I am a little curious about how much wear holdfasts might cause in dog holes in a 1 3/4-2" thick stretcher vs Surface Clamps, Bench Blades or dogs?

My mind is working on how to make the end stop movable without clamps. It does get in the way at times. Maybe on the end and cam raised. Maybe a trough at the end of the bench that will take a piece to keep it flat when not wanted and drop in a bigger piece for a full width stop.

Hold fasts can work like a wedge in the dog hole if driven in with too much enthusiasm. A few of mine have split at the bottom.

jtk

[Tony Wilkins]

My thinking on my eventual bench has actually swung the other way. In looking at a Roubo and following Schwarz' blog I've been wondering how many of these 'new fangled' devices :p I should include. I'm amazed what you can accomplish with holdfasts, a deadman, and a crochet.

[Jim Koepke]

My thinking on my eventual bench has actually swung the other way. In looking at a Roubo and following Schwarz' blog I've been wondering how many of these 'new fangled' devices :p I should include. I'm amazed what you can accomplish with holdfasts, a deadman, and a crochet.

One reason I like a little bit of apron is to be able to use a holdfast or clamp in place of the deadman. On the head end it allows for my clamped on board for a full width stop.

For edge planing though a crochet with some supports along the face can not be beat for speed.

jtk

[Tony Wilkins]

Is it Bob Lang's bench that has an apron running between the front legs but down from the bench top to leave room for clamps? Seems like a possible solution to what you were talking about Jim.

[Jim Matthews]

My thinking on my eventual bench has actually swung the other way. In looking at a Roubo and following Schwarz' blog I've been wondering how many of these 'new fangled' devices :p I should include. I'm amazed what you can accomplish with holdfasts, a deadman, and a crochet.

Have a looks at what you can do with a single holdfast and batten in this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNrof3cd1cA) from Bench hardware maker Richard McGuire who sells wagon vises.
One bench dog, one holdfast and a batten with a 90 degree bird's mouth notch does the job.

I put a Moxxon vise on the end where a wagon vise would be fitted.

[Mike Holbrook]

Tony, Bob's 21st Century Workbench has what I call a stretcher between the top and bottom of the frame for his bench. The stretcher is on the same plane as the front legs and the front edge of his bench. I think aprons typically stick out past the front legs, but I have not been able to clarify those two terms yet. I think aprons typically run the entire length of the bench edge too while Bob's "stretcher" just runs between the legs.

I have been pondering Bob's bench design and the Benchcrafted Roubo plan as well. I plan to put a "stretcher" between the front two legs of my bench too. I am thinking about putting a "stretcher" immediately under my top so the dog holes on the jaws of my Veritas QR Tail Vise can line up with the ones drilled in the "stretcher". I just bought 8/4 Iroko (African Teak) to make my vise jaws and stretchers with yesterday. The dog holes in and near the edge of the bench are the ones I am concerned about. I'm not sure it would be a good idea to be smacking holdfasts in dog holes close to the edge of a bench. The stretcher I am thinking about adding would provide another place, other than the bench edge, to drill holes. My interest in the above hardware is related to using it in place of the dogs many use in Tail or Wagon vise systems.

I am making a second bench/work table/work support using Adjust-A-Bench legs and casters. I may follow Jim's plan and put a Moxxon vise on one end or side of the adjustable height bench leaving the main bench for the low work.

[Curt Putnam]

If you split your bench top, does that change your thinking about aprons/stretchers?

[Jim Koepke]

Is it Bob Lang's bench that has an apron running between the front legs but down from the bench top to leave room for clamps? Seems like a possible solution to what you were talking about Jim.

The idea of leaving room for clamps always makes me wonder if people are clamping things to the front of their bench while gluing or what?

Occasionally things are clamped to the front of my bench for some work, but a short apron doesn't stop me from doing that.

For my way of thinking the large apron of the Nicholson bench blocks a lot of usable room under the bench.

A smaller apron allows some dog holes for support of long pieces and even a holdfast when needed. Maybe with the deeper jaws of a leg vice a wide apron would make sense.

A person's bench seem to come down to a few compromises vs what is needed. First there is the amount of space one has to put a bench and things like will it be open on all sides or will one or more sides be against a wall? Then one must consider what will be done on the bench. Will all the stock prep be on short pieces only needing a few passes under a smoother or will there be a lot of dimensioning to be done?

Besides the styles of benches, Roubo, Nicholson, Scandanavian, Molson, et al. there is also the height for the preference of each individual.

Then there is split top, apron, tool tray, no tray and where to keep the tools?

We are truly in an art/craft where one size does not fit all.

jtk

[Mike Holbrook]

My thoughts on clamping to the front edge of the bench are about the same as Jim's. Although I like the front clamping ability of a Nicholson bench I am also loath to sacrifice easy access to the space under the bench. I was planing to do a split top like Bob uses on his bench. Bob actually made a post on a post I made about his bench and confided that at that point he would change two things in regard to his benchtop: 1) he would make the removable trays smaller and 2) he would not make the two halves of the split top the same size.

Tool access and organization is a major deal in my experience doing projects. I would like my bench to simplify rather than complicate tool access/organization.
Recently I have been thinking about just making my bench top one solid piece. Rather than making temporary storage for tools in boxes on top of the bench, I am thinking about building specifically designed, permanent, wooden containers for specific sets of tools (like sets of chisels). I like the idea of keeping all the tools for a specific task in one portable container that keeps all of the pieces together even at the work area. These bench tool containers could reside on a shelf or shelves under the top of the bench when not in use. I also have the Veritas plans for a Rolling Cabinet. The Rolling Cabinet Plans call for a small work surface on the top of the cabinet. I am thinking about making the top of that cabinet one big tool tray that can hold all in use tools and roll into an easy access point anywhere in the shop. The shelf/shelves under the bench and the Rolling Cabinet should help keep all my hand tools in easy reach of my bench while dramatically reducing clutter and time spent locating, fetching and reorganizing tools.

[Jim Matthews]

My bench is on top of a chest of drawers, with the full length top drawer removed for holdfast clearance.

It sort of looks like the shaker bench on the Benchcrafted site, only not so pretty.
The drawers are nothing special, and I keep the regularly used items right there.

The only hassle is seeing what's in them.

I bought this Bayco LED flashlight (http://www.baycoproducts.com/index.php/product/multi-function/nsp-1236-detail) for that purpose.