Restoration of Griggio PSA 520 Planer, Pics, an on going thread

[Rick Fisher]

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/Griggio%20PF400%20and%20PSA%20520/P1040910_zpscb3bb7a9.jpg (http://s335.photobucket.com/user/jokerbird_photo/media/Griggio%20PF400%20and%20PSA%20520/P1040910_zpscb3bb7a9.jpg.html)

When I say restoration.. This machine has very low hours. Sadly it sat in a shipping container for a decade without any surface protection... It was only actually used for 2 - 3 years..

Its quite rusty inside.. all surface rust, but on surfaces which are hard to get at..

So I began dis assembly today. One of the goals is to replace the old fashioned style cutterhead with a Byrd or Tersa.. I have priced them out and Byrd is way cheaper than Tersa.. ( which boggles the mind ) .. Funny though. I love Tersa .. hmm..

Byrd has not made a cutterhead for a Griggio PSA -520 .. So I want to remove this head and crate it up .. ship it to Kentucky.. So they can copy it..

You would think that this would be fairly straight forward..

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/Griggio%20PF400%20and%20PSA%20520/P1040912_zps89f82034.jpg (http://s335.photobucket.com/user/jokerbird_photo/media/Griggio%20PF400%20and%20PSA%20520/P1040912_zps89f82034.jpg.html)

That is an example of the rust. The machine has a segmented infeed roller and 2 x powered outfeed rollers.

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/Comox-StrathconaB-20130823-00524_zps56d2c101.jpg (http://s335.photobucket.com/user/jokerbird_photo/media/Comox-StrathconaB-20130823-00524_zps56d2c101.jpg.html)

Above is with the shrouds removed. Griggio is an Italian company and the machinery is industrial.. They changed from Green to Ivory and Turquoise in color and this machine seems like its from that era.. The exterior is ivory and turqoise, but many interior parts are green.. Kinda funny ..

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/Courtenay-20130823-00525_zps28db078c.jpg (http://s335.photobucket.com/user/jokerbird_photo/media/Courtenay-20130823-00525_zps28db078c.jpg.html)

This is either going to be a great success or a disaster.. I gotta say .. this thing is really nicely built. Heavy castings, thick bolts, silky smooth threads..

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/Comox-StrathconaB-20130823-00528_zps93c3539c.jpg (http://s335.photobucket.com/user/jokerbird_photo/media/Comox-StrathconaB-20130823-00528_zps93c3539c.jpg.html)

Partially disassembled..

The cutterhead will not slide out either side.. the castings appear to need to be spread and the cutter lifted out. The cutter is really large. about 4.6" in diameter. I am willing to bet it weighs 70 lbs. So lots of dis assembly and cleaning ahead..

[Aaron Berk]

Wow, thats a lot to handle.
Looks like your in it for the long haul.

Awesome project!

[Rick Fisher]

If anyone has ever done this, feel free to give pointers. I am concerned but figure .. what the heck ..

[David Kumm]

My 299 was like that. Rusty all over but still had paint on the wear areas so it sat most of it's life. It will clean up and the double roller is really nice. Does the casting allow for a Tersa? Ever consider putting ESTA on it and trying it for a while before commiting to a Byrd? I think the SICAR was basically the same planer. May take a while but I think you will have a great jointer planer set up there. Dave

[Rick Fisher]

Hey David .. Thanks very much ..

Does it make sense to you that the cutterhead won't just slide out one side ?

I am going to be horrified if the jointer is the same way ..

The double roller is a bonus.. I was really glad to see that.. I have thought about sending them off and having them turned, and then coated with vulcanized rubber or whatever.. I spoke to Western Roller, they said no problem and could put a pretty thin coat on ..

I am looking at a complete dis assembly of the upper end of that machine, just to remove the cutterhead.. yikes.

To be fair, it will allow me to do a great job of cleaning it .. but I am a bit freaked about getting it back together again .. lol I see all these posts about how its a 2-3 hour job to change the cutter in a planer.. Not this one..

Really impressed with the build quality so far. No jagged edges, stuff that could have been thin is thick.. bolts are heavier, threads are smooth.. I always considered Griggio to be a step down from SCM and Felder, not sure if that's true in actual build quality, maybe in features.. I dunno.. This thing is nicely built ..

I unbolted the entire head and decided to try to lift it to see if it was really free.. It wouldn't budge, so I went on the hunt for another bolt.. I never found one.. it occurs to me now that the actual top end, including the castings, cutterhead, rollers, and segmented assembly could be 300 lbs.. I cant lift that..

[jack forsberg]

are those snap rings holding the cutter bearing i see? its not that hard to do a planer if you think of it as a head and a drive and pressure bars. thems the same for the most part as the were years ago. your head is more like 100 lbs or more is my guess.

[Rick Fisher]

Yeah Jack .. the bearings have snap rings on each side.
The stock cutterhead spins silky smooth.. no sound and it keeps turning and turning.. The V-Belts on the other hand are shot... i will probably change out the bearings anyway.. why not ?

I have no idea how much the cutterhead weighs. I am only guessing..

I plan on putting this machine on casters, not because I want to roll it around, I just want to be able to move it if I really have too.

[Peter Quinn]

Nice work there Rick, it's going to be a great planer once again! I've discussed the casadei planer with the mechanic at work that services it, IIR he said they did bearings and some springs years ago, after about 1million BF went through it, the head there doesn't just slide out either, the whole top end comes off similarly, it's very heavy, not much fun. Of course he probably had a line of guys waiting to use the planner......


On the mobility issue, the ones that need to move at work rest solidly on the floor, but up on dunnage, and are moved with pallet jacks when neccessary. Or you could install a complete gantry crane in your shop, that worked marvelously in a cement plant I worked in during college. Oh what I wouldn't give for a gantry in the shop.

[David Kumm]

4x6 with a piece of rubber backed outdoor type carpet work if you have a pallet jack. Otherwise I'd use Zambus casters on it. I'd clean it up, fire it up and use it a while and then decide what to change out. That planer isn't very old so the bearings are likely good. At least for a while. Dave

[Jeff Duncan]

I can't help you with removing the head, but have you considered pricing out a grinder for your machine instead? Many of these machines had knife grinding options available and I'd imagine yours is set up to easily attach one? If so that may be your best alternative for the long run. One set of good quality steel knives would last you many, many years as you only grind a tiny amount each time.

anyway just something to think about, good luck!
JeffD

[Rick Fisher]

I am thinking of using Bessey clamps to try to push the two iron sides apart. Other than the snap ring on the bearings, I cant see what is holding it together other than mass.

[Joe Jensen]

Rick, are you switching the cutterhead or keeping it as is?

[Rick Fisher]

Hey Joe.. I am going to put a Byrd head on it .. Its about $1400 cheaper than a Tersa head .. which is weird.. But it is what it is ..

I did a whole bunch more work on it tonight... and realize I am a bit stumped .. I cant figure out how to get the upper assembly apart. I have searched for every bolt and set screw and the only thing I couldn't remove was a snap ring.. I didn't have snap ring pliers on hand but will tomorrow ..

I wonder if this would stop the head sliding apart ?
http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/Comox-StrathconaB-20130825-00540_zpsd168056e.jpg (http://s335.photobucket.com/user/jokerbird_photo/media/Comox-StrathconaB-20130825-00540_zpsd168056e.jpg.html)

Anyone know if the snap ring holding the bearing in place would stop me from removal ? I am guessing its the missing link here ?

This is what I am trying to separate.

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/Planer2_zpsd453bf20.jpg (http://s335.photobucket.com/user/jokerbird_photo/media/Planer2_zpsd453bf20.jpg.html)

I didn't go crazy with the Bessey ..
http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/Planer6_zps2618b4a2.jpg (http://s335.photobucket.com/user/jokerbird_photo/media/Planer6_zps2618b4a2.jpg.html)
Rust removal tonight ..
http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/Planer61_zps3b02ed9c.jpg (http://s335.photobucket.com/user/jokerbird_photo/media/Planer61_zps3b02ed9c.jpg.html)

Griggio uses that lined finish on cast Iron .. I really like it .. prefer it to smooth.. not sure what its called.. My jointer has it as well ..
http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/Planer1_zpsbda67477.jpg (http://s335.photobucket.com/user/jokerbird_photo/media/Planer1_zpsbda67477.jpg.html)
Some unfortunate gouging in the table from prior use.. Won't hurt the machine in operation but it sucks..

David suggested I wire wheel the outfeed rollers rather than spend a bunch of money on them .. The advice was spot on ..

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/Planer2_zpsd453bf20.jpg (http://s335.photobucket.com/user/jokerbird_photo/media/Planer2_zpsd453bf20.jpg.html)
http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/Comox-StrathconaB-20130825-00539_zpsc5448c78.jpg (http://s335.photobucket.com/user/jokerbird_photo/media/Comox-StrathconaB-20130825-00539_zpsc5448c78.jpg.html)

[Guy Belleman]

I am thinking of using Bessey clamps to try to push the two iron sides apart. Other than the snap ring on the bearings, I cant see what is holding it together other than mass.

I wouldn't do that, as you take a risk of cracking the sides or warping the casing. Like Jack is alluding above, if you take off the snap rings and lightly tap on each side, the bearings will probably pop out and can be removed. The cutterhead can probably then slide to one side and rotated out.

On the other hand, I think Joe and a couple of others have a good idea. The bearings and cutterhead are probably good to go, just clean everything up and use it. Big modifications may not be really needed. The machine looks very well made and should function well with just a good clean up and blade sharpening.

Good luck.

[jack forsberg]

more than likely Rick you pull the snap ring off and the bearing comes off with the the head casting. I would use a good two leg puller. Bearing are a press fit to the shaft and slip fit in the casting.

can you read the numbers on the bearings? Do you have a manual?

[Guy Belleman]

There may be a better manual available, but the schematics in this owner's manual seems to indicate that if the screw/bolt is removed and the snap rings are removed, that the bearings will indeed slide out with a little pressure or tapping. http://maginn.ie/assets/pdf/machine_operation_manuals/GRIGGIO%20-%20THICKNESSING_PSA520_503_630.pdf

[Jeff Duncan]

My understanding is the tables are planed to get that finish. I don't have a link but if you search YouTube there's a couple videos of planing in action. It's pretty impressive to see those monster machines in action. Italians seemed to like that finish as SCM planer has it as well. Then again different manufacturers may source their parts from the same factory....so maybe it's the same table?

JeffD

[Erik Loza]

Looking good, Rick! FYI that the table finish is referred to as "scraped" (as opposed to fly-milled...). Knapp and Agazzzani were the two most notable who used that finish. I have never seen the process in action but would like to. Fly milling is more common.

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[mreza Salav]

If you haven't tried, e-mail Griggio and they might e-mail you a copy of the manual (they did for my bandsaw).
I'd follow the advice of Jack and others and try to remove the snap ring before forcing things out.
Great machine btw!

[Richard Coers]

I am thinking of using Bessey clamps to try to push the two iron sides apart. Other than the snap ring on the bearings, I cant see what is holding it together other than mass.

If the bearings are press fit on the shaft, slip fit in the casting, the snap rings will keep it from sliding apart. Manuals will not tell you what fits are machined between the surfaces. Only tech help can do that. I to would be reluctant to put much pressure on the casting. I would use a real good penetrating rust buster on all surfaces. When you only have a .001-.002" clearance on a bearing fit, rust can make a difference for parts to come apart.

[Erik Loza]

...When you only have a .001-.002" clearance on a bearing fit, rust can make a difference for parts to come apart.

This ^^^^...

Time to get out the Kroil.

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[Rick Fisher]

Guy, thanks so much for the manual, I didn't have one .. I actually emailed Cristina at Griggio last night for a copy. The snap ring is the only thing left that can be holding that machine together.

I am very cautious of putting too much pressure on the casting for fear of breaking. Really glad to get that manual, will print it off today..

Fortunately there is almost zero rust inside the holes in the castings.. The rust has all been surface. The scraped finish on the cast is a good example of the depth of the rust. I really love that finish..

[Erik Loza]

Rick, do you have access to a large jaw-type puller?

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[David Kumm]

Scraped or cold planed finishing used to be common. It was on a lot of high end stuff in the old iron days and even up to the 80s on the euro machines. I've seen it on old Centauro saws, SCMI sliding tables until the 90s, the Zefam, Fortis, Unitronex type of eastern block machinery, and of course Martin. It is particularly nice for jointers and planers as it reduces the friction of the stock feeding and it also allows the used guys to judge the wear on the machine easily. Dave

[jack forsberg]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sesxx-U_0FU

never heard it called anything other then planed? scraped is something that is done by hand and looks complexly different. Blanchard grinding is the most common.

[Erik Loza]

Jack, "cold scraped" is the term that Knapp put forth in their own promo literature. Of course, Knapp has been defunct for some years now, so it is hard to find an online reference to that term. I had not heard of it prior to being in this industry. Like Dave pointed out, this technique is not really used any more. Or at least not commonly.

You are correct that Blanchard grinding is common. Our Centauro bandsaws come with this finish, like so...

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i315/erikloza/Mini%20Max%20Bandsaw%20Works/BandsawsatIWF2006.jpg

...but in my experience, fly milling is more common. At least among Italian mfrs. It leaves (as I'm sure you are aware...) a totally different finish than the Blanchard mill. Basically, a "radial" version of the cold-scraped finish...

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i315/erikloza/Mini%20Max%20Shaper%20Projects/FormulaT1tighteningspindle.jpg
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i315/erikloza/AWFS%20Las%20Vegas%202011%20Smart-series/VegasCU300Smartspindle.jpg

Best,

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[Rick Fisher]

My older Centauro Bandsaw has the same finish on the Cast Iron as Griggio does. I think its one of those things, you do it if that's how you do it. My 12" Jointer is a 2007 Griggio and it has the "cold scraped" finish.

I got the snap ring out of the cutterhead bearing today, my snap ring pliers where no contest for that snap ring so I ended up using a couple of screwdrivers .. The ring flew literally 10 feet when it came free.

The casting had a groove inside it for the snapring.. No question that it was holding the whole thing together..

[Jim Matthews]

I have to wonder what kind of surface this thing would leave, as it is.

These were built to high standards, and might be better than presumed.
The new designs are nice, but for a home user this might be sufficient.

What would a sharp set of new stock knives cost?

[Larry Edgerton]

Rick, I can imagine some locating dowels in the side castings much like the head of a car to make sure they are in the right spot during assembly. Alignment is very important on a planer and would probably not be left to bolts. Just my thoughts..........

Larry

[Larry Edgerton]

I have to wonder what kind of surface this thing would leave, as it is.

These were built to high standards, and might be better than presumed.
The new designs are nice, but for a home user this might be sufficient.

What would a sharp set of new stock knives cost?

Another option in "Esta" inserts. No height setting after initial adjustment. I have them in one machine and they work well.

Larry

[Rick Fisher]

Hey Larry .. On the Esta system, do you still tighten and loosen the Gib bolts on the cutter ?

There is no question that the stock knives would leave a good finish, its a matter of not having to set them again ..

I have looked at the Esta website and am curious. I think the fear is that I will order it and hate it .. waste of $550.00

I'm not hung up on helical, would prefer Tersa. What I really want is to be able to change the knives in less than 5 minutes, so that I will actually do it .. Otherwise I wait till there is smoke coming out of the shop .. lol

[mreza Salav]

I know, the great thing about Tersa is it takes (literally) under 2 minutes for me to change over the blades and I do this change to the used/damaged side of the blade when I'm running rough lumber with who knows what on the surface (and glues) and then switch over to the good side to get smooth finish for the last couple of passes.

[Rick Fisher]

This might be a dumb question but ..

If I bought an Esta system for the Jointer which is going to be cleaned up second,

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/Griggio%20PF400%20and%20PSA%20520/P1040932_zps590f1b72.jpg (http://s335.photobucket.com/user/jokerbird_photo/media/Griggio%20PF400%20and%20PSA%20520/P1040932_zps590f1b72.jpg.html)

Would it affect the height of the outfeed table ?

What I mean is ... after installing a different type of cutterhead, would I have to adjust the outfeed table ?

[Larry Edgerton]

Rick, the Esta's come with a holder, and this holder has a square bottom that rides on the jack screws. The replacement blades snap into place on posts on the holders that are very precise. Because blades, two sided, snap on to the posts once set up initially they require no further adjustment, but you would have to adjust the blades/outfeed table initially. You just get the blades flat to the table and then may have to fine tune the outfeed if required. You do have to loosen the Gib screws and slide out the knife/holder combination to flip/install. Three knife head takes me 5 minutes not hurrying.

I have a Tersa in my SCM planer that looks very much like your Griggio under the hood. Nice find, and you will be happy. I think that these planners are better than what a Byrd has to offer myself, and I own a couple of machines with Byrds. Would not trade my Tersa for a Byrd in that machine.

I have the Esta's in a jointer and it works very well. You have to be careful when the blades are sharp as the edges will slice you hand easily. I buy the Cobalt steel inserts a dozen at a time which is good for 2-3 years in my shop. I do have a jointer with a Byrd, and for what you use a jointer for a Byrd is fine as well. I use M42 Tersa's, but am thinking about trying two M42's and two Carbides.

Long term for availability I feel that Byrd and Tersa are the safest bets.

I'm jealous of that jointer..........

Larry

[Rick Fisher]

Hey Larry .. Thanks very much .. I am seriously thinking I will go Esta on the Jointer .. I have a Tersa on my 12" jointer and wouldn't trade it for a Byrd either..

I did some work in the jointer today.. mainly cleaning .. Seems like no big deal but there is actually a bunch of real-estate to clean on this machine..
http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/Griggio%20PF400%20and%20PSA%20520/Comox-StrathconaB-20130827-00550_zps09d7d99e.jpg (http://s335.photobucket.com/user/jokerbird_photo/media/Griggio%20PF400%20and%20PSA%20520/Comox-StrathconaB-20130827-00550_zps09d7d99e.jpg.html)
The rust is all surface rust but there is some staining left behind.. End of the day its just life..
http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/Griggio%20PF400%20and%20PSA%20520/Comox-StrathconaB-20130827-00553_zps2c5d300b.jpg (http://s335.photobucket.com/user/jokerbird_photo/media/Griggio%20PF400%20and%20PSA%20520/Comox-StrathconaB-20130827-00553_zps2c5d300b.jpg.html)

The Power feeder was seized right up .. I spend about 1/2 an hour working each adjustment, getting it to move again .. Its a 4 wheel x 8 speed Maggi .. Came with the machine.. I had no idea it was part of the deal till I picked it up ..


I decided to take a closer look at the cutterhead and discovered a problem .. The cutterhead won't fully turn in a circle.
http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/Griggio%20PF400%20and%20PSA%20520/Comox-StrathconaB-20130827-00555_zps2c71df24.jpg (http://s335.photobucket.com/user/jokerbird_photo/media/Griggio%20PF400%20and%20PSA%20520/Comox-StrathconaB-20130827-00555_zps2c71df24.jpg.html)

Its as if the outfeed table has been pushed towards the cutterhead.. I am a bit concerned about this.. but not overly..

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/Griggio%20PF400%20and%20PSA%20520/Comox-StrathconaB-20130827-00558_zpsf66e43d4.jpg (http://s335.photobucket.com/user/jokerbird_photo/media/Griggio%20PF400%20and%20PSA%20520/Comox-StrathconaB-20130827-00558_zpsf66e43d4.jpg.html)

The knife actually hits the underside.. I have another Griggio in my shop so I am going to check how much clearance is normal .. Kinda spooked by this .. I looked underneath and can actually see how the table would adjust that way .. Not ordering anything till I figure out how serious this is.

[mreza Salav]

Rick, isn't the outfeed table adjusted just like the infeed (parallelogram?)

[Rick Fisher]

Yeah, its parallel .. I am just concerned about how it got so out of alignment ..

[David Kumm]

Rick, does the jointer have bolts under the table that if loosened, allow the table to move away from the head for ease of access? Most of the old jointers allow that. Dave

[Erik Loza]

Yeah, its parallel .. I am just concerned about how it got so out of alignment ..

LOL, Rick. That answer is easy: "Salvage/auction machine" + "Forklift driver"...

Seriously, though. I would just get up under there, spray the parallelogram bushings with some Liquid Wrench of Kroil and then lower the table after a day or so.

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[Rick Fisher]

Thanks .. I haven't ever messed with the outfeed on a jointer before. The idea of it gives me pause. Changing a cutterhead however will mean adjusting it either way. Joe tells me I need a master level and some idea of what to do .. Wonder if there is any tutorial on how to level an outfeed table ? I know he completely removed his when he did his restoration, so its doable.

[Larry Edgerton]

I was thinking about post #29, and am afraid I may have not made myself clear. On the side support castings there may be dowel pins, so once unbolted you would still not be able to spread them apart, they would have to be lifted first. Something to look for.

Jointer adjustment is easy, worry about it at that time and we will get you through it. That thing needs to be dissembled. Or send it to my shop........

Larry

[Jeff Duncan]

Rick, you will have to adjust the outfeed table for a new head anyway as you said, so no sense in being apprehensive now:D I have an older Ema that's essentially the same design as all the other Italian jointers I've seen except for one thing.....for some reason they decided to bolt the eccentric cams into position! The adjustments are not hard, they just require time and patience along with a trusted straightedge as long as you can get your hands on. You'll want to remove the cams one at a time, clean them out, then apply a little grease and re-install. At this stage your just pulling them out so you don't have to worry about adjustment just yet, as long as you do one at a time anyway! Once you have them all cleaned out and greased they should be fairly easy to turn and adjust. I won't detail the adjustment for a parallelogram jointer as it's been done by folks smarter than me.....a simple search here at SMC should yield you that result. And if you start feeling like it's a frustrating experience just be glad you don't have to re-drill and tap each one of the cams like I had to do on my machine! Took me about a day and a half to get my machine up and running when I got it, but it's a one time job you shouldn't ever have to do on that machine again!

As far as the head the Tersa seem to be a favorite amongst the pro crowd. I think it's pretty much due to the speed with which you can replace or shift a knife. I like the idea but can't get past the cost of replacement knives. As much as a do not enjoy setting knives it's just something I live with. Since I only do it about every year and a half or so it's not all that bad:o

good luck,
JeffD

[jack forsberg]

look here for table ajustment

http://media.ptg-online.com/media/dm/Articles/FAQs/JointerTableAdjustmentProcedureforJointerswithParr allelogramTables/20040123145450_J05.pdf (http://media.ptg-online.com/media/dm/Articles/FAQs/JointerTableAdjustmentProcedureforJointerswithParr allelogramTables/20040123145450_J05.pdf)

[mreza Salav]

Rick, I took my MM J/P apart (completely to every bit I could) to take it to basement and had to put it back together. I did all the adjustments. The outfeed table isn't really that much different fromt he infeed. If you get a head like Tersa your task would be much easier as you'd have to adjust your table based on the level of knives there.

[Al Bacon]

Thanks .. I haven't ever messed with the outfeed on a jointer before. The idea of it gives me pause. Changing a cutterhead however will mean adjusting it either way. Joe tells me I need a master level and some idea of what to do .. Wonder if there is any tutorial on how to level an outfeed table ? I know he completely removed his when he did his restoration, so its doable.

Hi Rick

Here is a video of Marc adjusting a parallelogram jointer. I have used it with great success on my Jointer.

http://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/videos/jointer-setup/

[Rick Fisher]

Thanks very much for the encouragement, and thanks for the link to the video .. I am going to figure out what is available for straight edges or master levels in this little town. I have all the access in the world to spinning lasers and such.. cant see them being accurate enough for this ..

Larry, after your post on Esta knives, I really think I am going to put that system in the Jointer. Its $500.00 . A new Tersa head for that jointer is over $2000.00 .. I am still confused as to why Tersa is so expensive when its actually quite a simple ( but brilliant ) system.

A new set of V-Belts and some serious adjusting and that jointer will be up and running. Other than the cutterhead, there is no other rust ( or exposed metal ) on that machine..

[Rick Fisher]

Rick, I took my MM J/P apart (completely to every bit I could) to take it to basement and had to put it back together. I did all the adjustments. The outfeed table isn't really that much different fromt he infeed. If you get a head like Tersa your task would be much easier as you'd have to adjust your table based on the level of knives there.

I love that Mreza.. I bet your basement in Edmonton is awesome.. lol .. Both these tools are going in my garage .. so I think we might share the same "wiring" ..

[David Kumm]

Rick, go on ebay and CL and look for the Starrett Master machinist level. 15"- think #199 but don't quote me. It is a great help in setting up machines. I've also found that a good quality 7-8' aluminum level is flat enough for jointer tables. The level is also handy when setting up wide belt tables. Four post system is nice but the corners can get out of whack and the level gives you relative settings < .005. Dave

[Larry Edgerton]

I use a Stabila level. They are accurate enough and have magnets that hold them to the table.

Larry

[Larry Edgerton]

.
Larry, after your post on Esta knives, I really think I am going to put that system in the Jointer. Its $500.00 . A new Tersa head for that jointer is over $2000.00 .. I am still confused as to why Tersa is so expensive when its actually quite a simple ( but brilliant ) system.

...

Because they can? It was a $2000 option at the time I bought my planer, but I made them throw in ten sets of blades which helped. It is very impressive machining, but come on.

I bought a twin screw supercharger for my Miata that was $2800 and the machining on that was way more complicated. It has two rotors that intermesh with different profiles, one with three lobes, one with five, a case and a gear drive. The lobes were machined so close that a sheet of note paper between the lobes would stop it from turning, and it spun at 28,000 RPM. Amazing. .I looked at the Tersa head and its relatively simple machining and at the supercharger and wondered.......

But, it is what it is.

Larry

[Jeff Duncan]

Yabbut......the Tersa head will pay for itself over time (at least in theory), the supercharger......well that's just for fun:D

JeffD

[Erik Loza]

Because they can?...

This ^^^^...

Look at who is buying Tersa as OEM equipment: Basically, us and Martin. Having a contract with SCM Group might as well be like having a contract with the Federal Gov't and well, Martin is Martin, and they can charge whatever they want. I know that when I worked for Felder, it was about a $1,000+ upgrade to outfit any 700-Series machine with the Tersa head. Personally, I love Tersa and have never seen the need for anything "better" but if we're talking about buying a new head for outfitting an older machine, I steer folks toward the Byrd head. It just makes more sense.

My 2-cents, for what they are worth.

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[Rick Fisher]

Progress on the jointer..

I am focusing on the jointer because its looking like a quick job compared to the planer. I am selling off a 2007 Griggio 12" Jointer to pay for the new cutterhead on the planer. I pretty much decided to go Byrd on the planer and Esta on the jointer.

Anyway .. I have a silly dilemma.. I cant figure out if this nut is removed clockwise or counter clockwise ?
http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/Comox-StrathconaB-20130901-00566_zpsd6b9c12a.jpg (http://s335.photobucket.com/user/jokerbird_photo/media/Comox-StrathconaB-20130901-00566_zpsd6b9c12a.jpg.html)

This is the sheave off the motor .. The motor is 4.8KW which converts to about 6-1/3 hp .. The sheave is terribly rusted.. I sprayed it down with release agent but cant figure out if it removes clockwise or counter .. In either direction, I can pull hard enough to make the old belts slip ..

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/Comox-StrathconaB-20130901-00565_zps2792645d.jpg (http://s335.photobucket.com/user/jokerbird_photo/media/Comox-StrathconaB-20130901-00565_zps2792645d.jpg.html)

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/Comox-StrathconaB-20130901-00563_zps5d69b843.jpg (http://s335.photobucket.com/user/jokerbird_photo/media/Comox-StrathconaB-20130901-00563_zps5d69b843.jpg.html)

This is cool .. ( above ) .. I can swing that power feeder about 27" from the jointer base. Right now my jointer sits beside my table saw.. With this one, I believe I can actually hit the table saw with the feeder.. not sure but optimistic.. Might need a longer arm.

When adjusting the jointer tables .. Which I have never done.. I assume these are the bolts I adjust .. just under the steel bar ? I am willing to bet that will be a frustrating exercise ..

[mreza Salav]

Rick, I can't tell from the photos the direction of rotation but the bolt (or nut) should loosen in the same direction that the pulley rotates.

[Rick Fisher]

Hmm.. Thanks Merza .. I figure that too.. I guess I am fighting rust .. I pulled so hard in that direction that I made the belts slip..

Maybe tomorrow it will loosen up ..

[Mark Bolton]

May be doubtful that the belt tension alone would be enough to hold the pulley for you to get the nut off. Perhaps a strap wrench on the sheave fouled against something would be better.

[jack forsberg]

The pulley must be keyed on the shaft(set screw?). . The bolt would be right hand thread too(standard).Hit the head with a hammer a few times(cheap impact wrench alternative) to impact the rust on the threads and then try,so lefty lousy to remove . To hold the pulley from spinning take a length of tuba 4 and cut a hole on the end the size of the pulley and put a slot down the middle so it can be clamped to the pulley to act as a wrench. Good c clamps work best. if you wire wheel the blot head first and spray with LW your chances improve, a little heat on the bolt head and spray while hot with LW is helpful too.

[Larry Edgerton]

Thats why God invented impact wrenches..............

Larry

[Erik Loza]

Thats why God invented impact wrenches..............

Larry

This ^^^^...

A 3/4" impact gun could probably zing that off in three seconds.

Erik Loza
Minimax USA