Joyner pendant jig problem

[Dave Kartzman]

Good evening...

I purchased the Joyner pendant jig a while ago and am now starting to try to make pendants.... I watched Capt. Eddie's videos and yoyospin's as well. I am able to turn simple pendants without any issues. However, I am having a consistant problem when I try to do some of the off-axis embellishments. While the pendant is spinning, and I am trying to turn some arcs in the pendant, the pendant seems to move a little (I assume because of the centripetal force). Before trying to turn off-axis, I attach the pendant to the waste block with the double sided tape, and push my tailstock and a wood block up against it for 5-10 minutes before trying to turn the arcs (when I press the wood block onto the pendant, the mandrel is in the 0 position - symmetric - Then before doing the off-axis turning, I move the mandrel to one of the other positions).

I would appreciate any suggestions anyone can offer on how to get the piece from moving once I go off-axis.

Thanks in advance.

Dave

[Thom Sturgill]

When I first started turning, I tried using double sided tape and the tape I bought as ''turner's tape" performed very poorly. Since then I tried carpet tape - the kind with the mesh in it - and it has worked better.
I made a few pendants using a home-brew eccentric 'chuck' and more than one went flying when I turned off center. I think I will try hot glue next time.

[Dan Masshardt]

I can't really help you either. You should consider emailing Ruth Niles who sells them.

I've been turning off center pendants using just a face plate and double stick duct take from Walmart. No problems.

[Dave Kartzman]

Thank you both for your responses.

Thom, I was at Home Depot when you posted your response, so the timing was quite advantageous. I picked up some carpet tape that had small mesh in it. I will try it tomorrow and see if I have better luck.

Dan, those pendants are beautiful... Love the woods...

Dave

[Dwight Rutherford]

Would slowing the lathe speed down help?

[BILL DONAHUE]

I would recommend the February, 2011 issue of Woodturning Design and the article "Pendants; A Family Project." (full disclosure - I wrote it) It sounds like you may need either sharper tools or better tape.

[Jon Lanier]

I use golfclub makers grip two-sided grip tape. Never had a problem losing a pendant. I agree with Bill.... make sure your tools are sharp.

[Dan Masshardt]

I would recommend the February, 2011 issue of Woodturning Design and the article "Pendants; A Family Project." (full disclosure - I wrote it) It sounds like you may need either sharper tools or better tape.

Bill - is there I way to find it without ordering a back issue?

[Brian Brown]

Dave,

Be careful with the carpet tape. I started using carpet tape with my pendants and other taped turnings, because I had some on hand, and thought $25 per roll for wood turners tape was ridiculous. The carpet tape adheres really well. Too well. When I removed my wood piece from the mandrel a few pendants broke, or the tape pulled chunks of wood off the pendant. Wood turners tape can do the same. but I have not had as much problem with it. My solution to the lower adhesion tape coming loose, was to sand the taped surface to finished, and then cleaning it with acetone to remomve the sandoing dust. This made for much better adhesion. A little dust on the surface almost guarantees a problem. I still have the occasional failure, but things work better now. As for getting the turning off the chuck/mandrel without breaking it, heat is your friend. Heat the metal parts, and it will soften the tape adhesive. Very few adhesives or glues stand up to heat well. When the piece comes off, just wash the goo off with acetone or mineral spirits. Good luck.

[Dave Kartzman]

Thanks for all of the advice. With respect to making sure I turn with sharp tools, I learned early on about the 'impact' of turning with sharp tools. When I was trying to add the grooves while turning off-axis, I had just sharpened my detail gouge... The problem was that the pendant had moved while it was spinning. Dwight's point about the speed of the lathe might have had something to do with it. The lathe was spinning at 700rpm, which I think is still an acceptable speed. Dust could have also been an issue.

This morning I used the carpet tape (pressing a wood block against the pendant with the tailstock for about 5 minutes). I was then able to turn the back smooth without issue. I was also able to remove the pendant from the waste block. I centered the pendant and again, placed a block of wood against the pendant with the tailstock. I was able to successfully turn the front the pendant. it's not very elaborate, but it is a start...

I will keep experimenting, and appreciate greatly the assistance you have all provided.

Dave

[Robert Henrickson]

Dwight's point about the speed of the lathe might have had something to do with it. The lathe was spinning at 700rpm, which I think is still an acceptable speed.

In my limited experiments with offset turning small thin pieces on a homemade chuck which was considerably larger/heavier/wider-faced than the Joyner, I found that 'higher' than 'lower' speeds seemed to give better results, so my results may not be terribly relevant. I can't remember offhand what speeds I tried with roughly 2" pieces. I used double-sided carpet tape, which does definitely hold, but released before destroying the turning. The notes on the Niles site suggest starting slow and seeing when vibration sets in.

[Dan Masshardt]

Dave - what material is that pendant? Looks a little different than the spectra ply / color wood.

Glad you are having some success.

[Alan Zenreich]

For my use, I find turners tape much much better than any of the carpet tapes I have tried. The key is light cuts. Keep visualizing that your work is only being held on by tape, so go gently, and you should be fine. When I demo pendant making, I show keeping the tailstock pressing against the wood when turning the perimeter to round (or else you risk pushing the blank laterally on the tape) and putting pressure from the tools, towards the headstock, pressing the work into the tape.

[Tom Boley]

My first post on SMC, but coincidentally, I just spent yesterday afternoon and this afternoon experimenting with that jig, which I got from Ruth Niles. It sounds as though you are making it work but wanted to offer another suggestion. I turned both the front and back on that jig but found that when I turn the front, I need to keep most of the center portion nice and flat so it will adhere to the tape when I turn it over. I can taper the edge a bit but the center has to be flat. On the first one I didn't do that way, I had trouble keeping it on the jig, but solved that problem by putting two more layers of the double-faced tape on top of the first layer so it was thick enough to sort of "wrap" around the curve and keep it tight enough to turn with pretty light cuts. It looks like this is going to be fun.

[Dave Kartzman]

Thanks for the responses... Turning pendants is going to be fun. Saturday, my wife and I went over to a bead show, and she learned how to make necklaces and use beading. They turned out really nice. Of course, she claimed both of the them...lol.

Dan, The pendant is made from dymondwood. There are so many color variations, and they are a pleasure to turn. I use them to make stoppers frequently and the customers really like them. One of the really nice aspects of dymondwood is that it is so hard, that the threads remain intact. When i show clients that they can unscrew the Ruth Niles stoppers, wash and dry them, and then screw them back on, they are generally very impressed.

Tom, I am right with you with respect to turning the back absolutely straight. Watching Capt. Eddies and yoyospin's videos taught me that right off the bat.

At the national AAW symposium, I saw a wonderful presentation on turning pendants by Alan (above) and his wife. It was a great presentation and it helped me get inspired to start turning the pendants. (I wish I had the skillset at this point to do the embellishments that Alan and his wife have done on their samples. They are absolutely beautiful!)


I'm really looking forward to further experimentation with making pendants.

Dave

[Alan Zenreich]

Dave,

Lauren and I appreciate your kind words about our presentation in Tampa.

If you have any questions, or just want to chat a bit, send me a private message, and we can talk on the phone.

[David C. Roseman]

My first post on SMC, but coincidentally, I just spent yesterday afternoon and this afternoon experimenting with that jig, which I got from Ruth Niles. It sounds as though you are making it work but wanted to offer another suggestion. I turned both the front and back on that jig but found that when I turn the front, I need to keep most of the center portion nice and flat so it will adhere to the tape when I turn it over. I can taper the edge a bit but the center has to be flat. On the first one I didn't do that way, I had trouble keeping it on the jig, but solved that problem by putting two more layers of the double-faced tape on top of the first layer so it was thick enough to sort of "wrap" around the curve and keep it tight enough to turn with pretty light cuts. It looks like this is going to be fun.

Tom, welcome to SMC! Nice to see you on this board. For other members, Tom is an accomplished, professional turner who started one of our local clubs here in No. VA a few years back. Great instructor and all 'round good guy. While he no doubt cringes when he hears me say it, taught me much of what I know about turning. :)

David

[Tom Boley]

David, thanks for the kudos. As to the jig, I have been experimenting with turning bottle stoppers on it, too. The new version comes with a faceplate with five holes in it, well, 29 holes if you count the 24 around the edge. Four of those are for wood screws to firmly attach a waste block for turning pendants. That large center hole is for the large 3/8" shaft screw which is also included. I bored a 23/64" hole in a piece of 3/4" white oak (any good hard wood OK) and screwed it down good and tight onto that large screw/bolt. It must be really tight or will move when you don't want it to. (I have ordered another faceplate from Ruth so I can make a permanent attachment. I then turned the waste block down so the outer-most face was the same diameter as the Niles stoppers (3/4") as a guide. I then drilled a 23/64" hole in my stopper blank, screwed it onto that large center screw as the mandrel, and used different settings of the jig for off-center stoppers. I've only done two and I would urge experimentation with some wood scraps before using the expensive stuff. I turned a cylinder first, then curved the bottom to the waste block and the top all the way to center and sanded both top and bottom, all that with the jig in the #1 (center) hole. I moved it to an outer hole and, keeping the faceplate on 0-0, cut a cove in one third of the stopper. I rotated the faceplate to 0-8 and did it again, trying to match both the width and depth of the first cut. Then on to 0-16 for the third cut. It looks pretty cool and feels really good in the fingers. I think the possibilities are endless but they are very labor intensive with all the jig changes. Give it a try and let me know what you think.

[Ron Cote]

Dave,

I hope that you have solved your problems, but in case that you are still having any issues, consider using a drawbar to ensure the mandrel is not moving.

Ron

[steve worcester]

Drawbar is paramount as well as using the allen screws and not the thumbscrews when you are turning. You just can't get them tight enough.

[Alan Zenreich]

I respectfully disagree with Steve about the Allen head screws. I find no problem at all with the thumb screws, finger tight is fine for my turning. Considering how often I reposition the index plate, the hex head screws are a real pain compared to the thumb screws. Also, I often use only three thumbscrews. (Depends on which threaded offset hole is in use)... use whatever works best for you.