Anyone knowledgeable about radon remediation?

[Wade Lippman]

I bought a house last year and it measured 5 for radon. I did a long term test that came up 6, so I guess I will be doing remediation.

Guy came in and told me that my sump would be a perfect place because it communicated with all the drain tiles and would be minimal work to plumb it outside. He will put a small air pump on the outside of the house and draw out air from below the slab; 70w and no loss of conditioned air from the house. Then we went outside and he realized it would be difficult exhaust it 2 feet above a window near the sump.

So his fallback plan is to core the floor 8 feet over, where he can easily run an exhaust.

Seems to me that the sump was a much better idea, both because it was connected to the drain pipes, but also because I have already lost that floor space and would prefer not to lose more for the new location.
So I have two questions...

1) Is coring the floor adequate, or should I try to make the sump work? (it would take a few elbows, but it can go up 8' away, either inside or outside)
2) The window it can't get 2 feet above near the sump has never been opened and I can't imagine I would ever want to open it (it is over the bathtub, which we never use anyhow). Any way to ignore that requirement?

I suppose I also have a third question...
He told me that 6 wasn't terribly hazardous, but would make selling the house difficult. After remediation it typically would be about 2. Is all that reasonable?

I know that radon remediation is controversial and many people think it is a sham, but I won't be able to sell the house without it so I might as well do it now. Hey it might be real then then saving $1,000 will be a bad choice. So lets not get into the controversy.

[George Bokros]

I had a system installed earlier this year. My house tested 4 and 4.6 before the install. Fed guidelines say four or more you should install a remediation system. Mine cost me $850. They talked about using the sump but said coring the floor was better. They did seal the sump crock with a plastic lid but did not screw it into the floor just sealed with silicone. After the install my level tested 2.

Wouldn't you know it the first time we had a gulley washer my sump pump could not handle the water coming in so I had to take the cover off so I could help the pump by bailing. This was the first time in the 14 years we have lived in this house we had this situation. I reinstalled the sump cover my self and am getting proper draw per the manometer. I think it is better that it is not through the sump cover because of the situation I had with needing to remove the cover in an emergency. When they cored the floor they removed some of the gravel at that point. It works because the gravel is porous and it can draw through the gravel under the floor.

In some locals buyers are having houses tested as part of the closing. As a mater of fact the house on the corner of our street sold in Dec and the seller had to install a radon mitigation system to sell the house.

I spend a lot time in the basement, wood shop in in the basement.

Hope this in helpful.

George

[David Weaver]

FIL did his own remediation, just basically filled in the cracks in the concrete floor with some sort of poly/rubber sealant, drilled a hole through his concrete and used plastic pipe and a motor to pull air through it.

His numbers went from 54 (not a typo) to 1.5. He had initially tried to hire a guy to do the job with his help, and the guy basically told him what he was going to do, and then inexplicably dropped his tools off one day and never showed up again until months later to pick up his coring drill. Strange bird, he was.

If it's similar there to what it is here, people will demand something be done anywhere above 4 when buying a house. Either that, or they'll demand a concession in the cost of remediation.

It's not a hard thing to do, I think the controversy comes when it becomes a high dollar job. FIL did it successfully with no problem - he is a bit more handy than the average person, but is by no means a professional at that type of work, just an atypical DIYer who is patient and tries to understand what he's doing and do a thorough job at it.

[Mike McCann]

It depends on the age of the house newer houses are already plumbed for radon. To start I would seal all the concrete in the basement every corner and crack you can see. Then retest usually that does the trick if not you will need some kind of pump to pull the air from under the slab.

[David C. Roseman]

Wade, I've done radon remediation on two houses I've previously sold in No. VA, one 20 years ago, the other 8. Cost both times was about $850, so if you're being quoted $1000, that's not far off, and you might get one or two other quotes. You mention radon danger is controversial. I'm sure there are folks who are skeptical of the risk, but I haven't run into any. :eek: Heck, there are folks who still deny smoking is dangerous to your health. You'll have to remediate when you sell anyway, so I'd do it now and not think twice about it. I don't think I'd compromise the sump crock for the install, even it wouldn't require tricky routing of the vent piping. The sub-slab penetration doesn't take up much space, and the systems I've seen are all fairly unobtrusive. As for the window clearance requirement, I can't imagine that you're likely to get a waiver in any jurisdiction. Even if you did, the new purchaser's home inspector years from now would be sure to flag it as a deduct anyway.
David

[David Weaver]

I don't think there's any contested point of view regarding whether or not radon is dangerous in general, but whether or not the death rates are particularly signficant at levels lower than where most concentrated data is available (e.g., you can readily see effect when studying miners who are exposed to really high concentrations of radon, but a level of 6 in a home doesn't show nearly as much clarity in terms of the effect).

[David C. Roseman]

Well said, David. I think when I was dealing with this, the risk from residential radon at given picocuries per liter was expressed, for lack of better, in terms of number of packs of cigarettes smoked over x years. Probably not much of a factor for some of us older folks, but I think about young folks and kids spending time in the house and figure it's a risk I can at least do something about without much hassle. I just did lead paint abatement on the exterior of a rental house using the same logic. But that was expensive! :eek:

David

[Mel Fulks]

Guy at state radon hot line told me granite counter tops can be a radon source ,but 'dealers are supposed to check it'.

[George Bokros]

Guy at state radon hot line told me granite counter tops can be a radon source ,but 'dealers are supposed to check it'.

There was a program on HGTV concerning this. They removed the counter tops and the radon level dropped significantly. Most vendors will provide certified test results on the slabs they are selling.

Instead of granite, quartz is an alternative.

[David Weaver]

Well said, David. I think when I was dealing with this, the risk from residential radon at given picocuries per liter was expressed, for lack of better, in terms of number of packs of cigarettes smoked over x years. Probably not much of a factor for some of us older folks, but I think about young folks and kids spending time in the house and figure it's a risk I can at least do something about without much hassle. I just did lead paint abatement on the exterior of a rental house using the same logic. But that was expensive! :eek:

David

I would do remediation even though I'm not convinced the low doses are a problem. What is or isn't a problem is in the eyes of the next buyer, and having it all done as opposed to rushing at a sale date would be preferable. Plus, my wife would ride me like a rented mule if she knew that there was a high radon amount and I wasn't doing anything about it.

Mine tested 1.7 when I moved in, but the neighbor and the house across the street both have mitigation systems. Don't really know why mine didn't test higher, but I always leave two tiny jealousy windows cracked on each end of the basement - it's nice to let the air turn over a little in there no matter how slowly it's doing it based on those small openings.

If I lived in a world where I didn't have spousal approval to deal with or future buyer approval to deal with, I'm pretty sure i'd become a miser who didn't do much!

[Dan Hintz]

Any reason the exhaust pipe can't climb to the roofline? The houses around here that have the inline blowers typically take the pipe right up and over the eave.

[Clarence Martin]

Does having underground drainage around the outside perimeter of the house help to lower Radon gas levels in a basement ?

[Wade Lippman]

Any reason the exhaust pipe can't climb to the roofline? The houses around here that have the inline blowers typically take the pipe right up and over the eave.

He suggested that, and could do it if I insisted on using the existing sump, but it sure wouldn't be pretty. The other location can just go up to the soffits and that is high enough. As long as a cored installation is satisfactory, I would rather do that.

I appreciate everyone's help. I also posted this question at a DIY forum where "professionals" hang, but they just told me it was all a scam. Which might be true, but it's not what I asked. Up until a year ago I frequented another woodworking site. A question would get 3 times as many replies as here, but 80% of them were from crazy people. Much better here.

[Curt Harms]

I bought a house last year and it measured 5 for radon. I did a long term test that came up 6, so I guess I will be doing remediation.

Guy came in and told me that my sump would be a perfect place because it communicated with all the drain tiles and would be minimal work to plumb it outside. He will put a small air pump on the outside of the house and draw out air from below the slab; 70w and no loss of conditioned air from the house. Then we went outside and he realized it would be difficult exhaust it 2 feet above a window near the sump.

So his fallback plan is to core the floor 8 feet over, where he can easily run an exhaust.

Seems to me that the sump was a much better idea, both because it was connected to the drain pipes, but also because I have already lost that floor space and would prefer not to lose more for the new location.
So I have two questions...

1) Is coring the floor adequate, or should I try to make the sump work? (it would take a few elbows, but it can go up 8' away, either inside or outside)
2) The window it can't get 2 feet above near the sump has never been opened and I can't imagine I would ever want to open it (it is over the bathtub, which we never use anyhow). Any way to ignore that requirement?

I suppose I also have a third question...
He told me that 6 wasn't terribly hazardous, but would make selling the house difficult. After remediation it typically would be about 2. Is all that reasonable?

I know that radon remediation is controversial and many people think it is a sham, but I won't be able to sell the house without it so I might as well do it now. Hey it might be real then then saving $1,000 will be a bad choice. So lets not get into the controversy.

How about making the window fixed so it can't be opened? When SWMBO was an active realtor, Radon was on the front burner. If your property tested above the limit, you were going to pay for remediation one way or another, either install a system or expect the sale price to reflect the lack of one.

[Wade Lippman]

How about making the window fixed so it can't be opened?

I looked into that approach last year when I found out my furnace was improperly terminated. Apparently it is not enough to glue the window shut; it has to be actually replaced with a window that is designed not to open.
Is that correct?

Actually I just ran it by the local building department. He said that making the window inoperable was fine as long as there was other egress. Of course, there is no telling if whoever buys my house will agree. My old house is still for sale; one guy backed out of a contract because I refused to bring the electrical up to current code.

[David Weaver]

He suggested that, and could do it if I insisted on using the existing sump, but it sure wouldn't be pretty. The other location can just go up to the soffits and that is high enough. As long as a cored installation is satisfactory, I would rather do that.

I appreciate everyone's help. I also posted this question at a DIY forum where "professionals" hang, but they just told me it was all a scam. Which might be true, but it's not what I asked. Up until a year ago I frequented another woodworking site. A question would get 3 times as many replies as here, but 80% of them were from crazy people. Much better here.

It's fine that the pros feel that it's a scam at $1000, but I'd like to see them sell a house that tests at 6, if the buyers test, they'll demand concessions. If you do it yourself and plumb it outside, you're still going to need a coring drill and several hundred dollars worth of materials.

[Brian Tymchak]

He suggested that, and could do it if I insisted on using the existing sump, but it sure wouldn't be pretty. The other location can just go up to the soffits and that is high enough. As long as a cored installation is satisfactory, I would rather do that.


I've seen at least 1 system (http://www.tjernlund.com/radonvac.htm) designed to exhaust thru the side wall. So you end up with a pvc fitting protruding from the side of the house instead of that really attractive :( 4" PVC pipe up along the chimney (or other) to above the roof line.

[Mel Fulks]

Agree with David. Sometimes the buyers just keep the money and don't get the work done,but seller is still minus the money .....even if house tests just over 4.