Installing a Lee Valley Quick Release Sliding Tail Vise

[Mike Holbrook]

I got a PM recently from another poster on this forum regarding the use of this vise so I thought I would make a post to discuss the best way(s) to install and use this interesting vise.

The instructions for this vise suggest installing an apron on the front of ones bench. The instructions also advise the installer on how to make a wooden jaw such that it matches to the apron. The desired result is a matching set of jaws composed of the apron on one side and the user built jaws on the other.

Many students of workbench design will recognize that current trends tend to steer away from aprons particularly on the front of a workbench. The current thought is such aprons may be restrictive in terms of clamping objects to the much used front of the bench. In this case one might excuse this design restriction due to the fact that this tail vise is designed to be used to clamp objects both to the top and side of the bench. Still...

I am contemplating a plan that uses elements of the Benchcrafted Split Top Roubo (I have these plans) and Bob Lang's 21st Century Workbench (I have Bob's DVD with plans). I also have Benchcrafted hardware for making a leg vise. My idea is to place the Benchcrafted leg vise on the left front of my bench and the Veritas QR Tail Vise on the right front. Between the leg vise and the QR Tail Vise I believe I would have a myriad of options for clamping to the front of the bench, with a complimentary bench design.

I have this idea for getting around the typical issues with a front apron. I am thinking of placing a stretcher between the front two legs. This piece would be flush with the front bench edge and the front legs, much like the extra stretcher Bob places on his 21st Century design for clamping to the front of his bench. I am thinking about placing my stretcher immediately under the top of the bench, however. In this position the stretcher in conjunction with the top of the bench could serve a similar function to the apron the Veritas plans suggest. It has also occurred to me that the 17+ inches of space required outside the frame of the bench, for installing the QR Tail Vise will place the jaw attached to the vise close to the right front leg of the bench. I am also considering just using the right front leg of the bench, in conjunction with the top, as the opposing jaw for the moving jaw on the QR Tail Vise.

I hope these ideas are at least as clear as mud and my fellow workbench designers can picture what I am trying to depict well enough to warn me of any issues they may see.

[Chris Hachet]

I got a PM recently from another poster on this forum regarding the use of this vise so I thought I would make a post to discuss the best way(s) to install and use this interesting vise.

The instructions for this vise suggest installing an apron on the front of ones bench. The instructions also advise the installer on how to make a wooden jaw such that it matches to the apron. The desired result is a matching set of jaws composed of the apron on one side and the user built jaws on the other.

Many students of workbench design will recognize that current trends tend to steer away from aprons particularly on the front of a workbench. The current thought is such aprons may be restrictive in terms of clamping objects to the much used front of the bench. In this case one might excuse this design restriction due to the fact that this tail vise is designed to be used to clamp objects both to the top and side of the bench. Still...

I am contemplating a plan that uses elements of the Benchcrafted Split Top Roubo (I have these plans) and Bob Lang's 21st Century Workbench (I have Bob's DVD with plans). I also have Benchcrafted hardware for making a leg vise. My idea is to place the Benchcrafted leg vise on the left front of my bench and the Veritas QR Tail Vise on the right front. Between the leg vise and the QR Tail Vise I believe I would have a myriad of options for clamping to the front of the bench, with a complimentary bench design.

I have this idea for getting around the typical issues with a front apron. I am thinking of placing a stretcher between the front two legs. This piece would be flush with the front bench edge and the front legs, much like the extra stretcher Bob places on his 21st Century design for clamping to the front of his bench. I am thinking about placing my stretcher immediately under the top of the bench, however. In this position the stretcher in conjunction with the top of the bench could serve a similar function to the apron the Veritas plans suggest. It has also occurred to me that the 17+ inches of space required outside the frame of the bench, for installing the QR Tail Vise will place the jaw attached to the vise close to the right front leg of the bench. I am also considering just using the right front leg of the bench, in conjunction with the top, as the opposing jaw for the moving jaw on the QR Tail Vise.

I hope these ideas are at least as clear as mud and my fellow workbench designers can picture what I am trying to depict well enough to warn me of any issues they may see.Interesting thoughts, I agree a heavier front to the bench would make it harder to clamp things to the bench....

[jamie shard]

I like the direction you are heading and I've thought along similar lines for my next bench. I have a Nicholson style and I do find that the apron limits the functionality of the bench. I only rarely need to long edge planing on wide pieces of wood. I think having some apron is important however. A small 4" board would be fine, just enough to be able to rig clamps or pegs as needed.

I personally would lean towards having a gap underneath the table so that you could reach under and push up bench dogs, but there are ways to work around that.


I am also considering just using the right front leg of the bench, in conjunction with the top, as the opposing jaw for the moving jaw on the QR Tail Vise. I think this is a good idea and frankly I can't think of another way of doing it since the leg/stretcher would be in the way of the vise if done otherwise.

edit: additional thought --- are you planning on angling the left leg to get the full benefit of a leg vise? I've debated putting a normal quick release vice in the vertical position to get the functionality of QR but the depth of a leg vise. I don't know if that's possible though. (I'm VERY interested in feedback on that idea -- PM me is fine since I don't want to clutter your thread.)

[Prashun Patel]

Hi Mike. I am unclear how your stretcher immediately under the table and flush with the front edge is any different than an outright apron.

I just made a workbench using a leg vise and the LV QR tail vise.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?203044-Ash-workbench-progress-pix&highlight=workbench (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?203044-Ash-workbench-progress-pix&highlight=workbench)

It may not be the prettiest thing, but I eliminated the apron from the main part of the bench altogether. It is not needed. The clamping is all done by the dogs above the table. There is no racking that theoretically might occur by having the jaw be thicker than the opposing side of the bench. If I require deep holding, I turn to the leg vise over the 4" apron. Other than aesthetics, I haven't missed the apron.

You are right that with a leg vise that requires the legs to be flush to the front of the bench, you must place the legs at least 17" from the end to clear the vise mechanism. I reclaimed a couple inches and improved the stability of my bench by splaying the legs.

The other thing to consider is that some of your dog holes along the front of the bench might align over your legs.

BTW, if you work on irregularly shaped items, don't discount the little leg vise spacers I use in lieu of a proper glide or peg system. The cop out method I use allows you to control the rack, which can actually be a benefit for some situations. It also creates a darn strong lever.

[Chuck Nickerson]

A true tail vise (which the LV is) let's you clamp three ways: along the bench top, the bench side, and between the vise chop and the bench.

An apron on your bench is only useful for the side clamping. If your bench top is thick (mine's 4") that's enough 'front' to support clamping.
You can make the vise's apron just deep enough to hide the mechanism. It might look odd, but you get the best of both worlds.

[Curt Putnam]

I agree with Chuck. Failing that I'd also consider a removable stretcher - on the order of 4" - 6" (maybe two half-lapped dovetails on the ends with a metallic insert to match a counterbored bolt) Don't see that you are going to need the stretcher much and you will need to reach under bench constantly.

[Mike Holbrook]

My Benchcrafted Split Top Roubo plans call for 19 7/8" of the bench's top to extend out over the right side of the bench frame. The Veritas QR Tail Vise requires a minimum of 17"x 6 1/2" on the underside of the bench, which is why I was thinking of just using the right leg (at 90 degrees to the top) as a surface to clamp the movable jaw against. Having the whole leg to clamp against may be a benefit in clamping long pieces between the jaws, if the difference in the two jaw sizes does not cause a problem.

Veritas also suggests making the jaw attached to their vise and the apron it works against at least 3" thicker than the thickness of the bench top. I am not sure I know what the exact characteristics of an apron are. The apron feature I was trying to avoid is any difference it might create between the level of the bench edge and the front legs. The Veritas plan suggests just adding a strip of wood to the edge of the bench that matches the dimensions of the jaw on the vise. This plan makes the entire edge of the bench protrude, for the thickness of the jaw/apron, out past the level of the front legs. My idea is to use what I am calling a stretcher, running only between the front two legs, under the top and on the same plane as the legs and front edge. The idea here is to keep the vise jaws and entire front edge of the bench on the same plane as the legs and stretchers.

The reason I am considering an apron/stretcher is, I am concerned about drilling holes both on top and on the side of the edge of my bench. I am concerned the bench edge will start to look like swiss cheese and not have the strength to hold up under the abuse it will suffer. The piece I am calling a stretcher will provide another location for dog holes to service the side of the bench. If the movable jaw and the edge of the bench are the same thickness it should be easy to match dog holes.

I plan to make my top 3-4" thick. This thickness will allow enough space for any of the Veritas dogs I have to seat properly although, depending on where I drill the holes, I may or may not be able to push the dogs back up through the bottom of the top.

[Prashun Patel]

I get it now. Imho, you dont need the stretcher. You also dont need too many dog holes. The vise has fairly large travel, and the smooth sliding means you can space your dogs maximally and still clamp any sized piece quickly.

[Hilton Ralphs]

Interesting comments on the need to eliminate the apron to aid under bench access and front bench clamping. Paul Seller's bench build is almost the opposite. His bench looks like a ship's whore but seems to be pretty functional. I think he mentions that it's the front apron that gives the bench its rigidity.

To buck the US trend, he also doesn't mount his front vise flush with the front of the bench.

If one is using hold fasts like the Veritas and the ones from TFWW, then one doesn't need access under one's bench.

The beauty of Bob's bench design is the removable tool trays that allow for clamping from the middle of the bench.

Looking at the 21st Century bench plans, I guess one could just move the front apron either up a notch to allow space for dog holes for side clamping (as mentioned by another poster) or down a notch to accommodate a sliding deadman.

[Mike Holbrook]

I think you make a valid point Hilton. As I understand Schwarz and others objection to an apron, they are attempting to retain the ability to use C or F style clamps on the edge of the bench. With all the bench hardware available at this juncture I don't see why anyone would need to use their "glue up" clamps on their bench. The Veritas Surface Clamp, Veritas Hold-Down, Dogs & Pups, and the new Planing Stops seem more than capable. There are always Bench Anchors if someone wants to build something custom. TFWW's Gramercy Holdfasts are a bargain if we want to go a little more old school.

Still, I am interested in being able to attach things to a single level surface on the front of my bench as well as the top. I think this makes it easier to use the same hardware in the same manner on either surface. I like Bob's Lang's solution to side clamping via adding a stretcher to the side of the bench rather than a sliding deadman, as a nice thick stretcher seems a more solid base for Surface Clamps, Holdfast's, Dogs... I am just thinking about moving the stretcher up where it may service both the leg and tail vise better. Although it is nice to be able to clamp pieces lower on the front of the bench it seems to me the most common use will be to clamp a long board to the bench edge for easy jointing of the edge.

I guess I should say that the workbench I am designing will be used mostly for hand planing. I am also making an Adjusta-A-Bench to handle other needs. If I make a Moxon Vise, need a place to clamp my miter box saw, need a higher bench or even a lower bench for a specific job I will just use the Adjust-A-Bench. This "bench" on casters will also serve as a work table, out feed table...