Opps just spent $20'000 on a laser that wont do the job. EMC removal on anodise

[matthew knott]

Here's an interesting tale of sadness, one of our customers, who has happily been using us for a few years had a great idea, to save the money he spends using us, and buy himself a laser, also he wanted to cut his lead time right down. Fair enough, we were not doing that much work but I can see his lead time issue as shipping is always a delay. Now rather than asking us for advice, he thought he knew best, and basically just ordered one, he had a few samples done and they looked good so what could possibly go wrong ??
Well he's had his machine for a week and run a load of (very expensive) parts, and hes been told they are all scrap or at least don't work. He calls today to ask us if we can send the settings we use, of course I'm happy to help but firstly I ask what machine he has purchased. Its a co2 (western brand) cost him quite a bit! So I say, "but we remove the hard anodise layer on your parts so you get a good electrical connection, a CO2 won't do that!, we use a Fiber laser!" He thinks I'm lying to him and just won't give him the settings, hes tried maximum power at a low speed but can get a connection. The manufacturer has told him there is not much they can do and can't refund him as the machine is working perfectly. So do you guys know if there is anyway he can cleanly remove HARD Anodise and also rough up the surface? I think he's stuck :(

Here's a little video I ran to show him the difference, you can see the sparks of material being removed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgK1u3ddXXU&feature=youtu.be

[Dan Hintz]

With enough power (or slow enough speed), he can get through the hard anodized layer... but at the speed needed, I think he'll find it cheaper to sell the machine and let you guys do this batch in the meantime.

EDIT: Missed the "roughing up the surface" part... he's not going to do that with a desktop CO2.

[Mel Fulks]

You think he's stuck,I hope he's stuck. Aparantly we are all bit players in his world.

[matthew knott]

You would think power and speed would get it off, but this is rock hard anodizing, i tried it on our shenui (100% power, 5 ipm,) and i cant get any conduction with a volt meter, i even tried scratching the hell out of the lasered bit with the probe, then a scalpel and still nothing. It used to be machined before we got the job, and even they said it was a nightmare job as in blunted their tools. I hate hard anodise, it never engravers as nice as normal !!!!
Dan hopefully i will run your sample experiment tomorrow, i'm waiting for the 100mm lens, but the SPI laser is only on loan for 1 more day and they guys are zapping everything in site with it and wont give me the lens back!!!

[Joe Hillmann]

Will sand blasting remove it? Could they engrave a mask then blast it. I don't know if it is worth doing production runs that way but it may be worth a try.

[Bruce Boone]

Another thing to try is to laser it then soak it in an acid bath then polishing. We do a similar technique getting through the oxide surface of black zirconium. It is done with a CO2 laser, but won't get completely to clean metal. The acid and polishing are needed to do the final whammy.268947

[Chuck Stone]

Here's an interesting tale of sadness,

Tell the truth .. while you were typing this, were you
saying to yourself "tee-hee-hee" ?

[Rodne Gold]

Small cnc rotary engraver with a TC or diamond bit?

[Scott Shepherd]

Best hope is to take it back to whoever anodized it (or someone else that does anodizing) and see if they can strip it.

[AL Ursich]

I like the mask, laser and sand blast idea....

And it looked like a "tee-hee-hee" to me too...

AL

[Martin Boekers]

I really am surprised that the company wouldn't work with him to replace the laser with a fiber one, albeit additional fees. Yes the customer may have to accept blame, but a good rep should have had a series of questions to ask to make sure the client was purchasing what was needed. It's amazing the lack of customer service that some companies have.... One question that really bothers me about this is why did he call you for settings? on a new machine it seems the manufacturer would have been the first one to call...

[Joe Hillmann]

I really am surprised that the company wouldn't work with him to replace the laser with a fiber one, albeit additional fees. Yes the customer may have to accept blame, but a good rep should have had a series of questions to ask to make sure the client was purchasing what was needed. It's amazing the lack of customer service that some companies have.... One question that really bothers me about this is why did he call you for settings? on a new machine it seems the manufacturer would have been the first one to call...

I don't think I would blame the sales rep. He did sample parts and the customer accepted them as good, the customer never bothered to check if the parts would work in there final application.

[George Carlson]

In future runs he should just mask those areas where he does not want the anodizing.

[Martin Boekers]

I don't think I would blame the sales rep. He did sample parts and the customer accepted them as good, the customer never bothered to check if the parts would work in there final application.Sorry, I didn't mean to blame the Rep as it sounded... I been around a laser long enough to know things sometimes aren't what they seem.. :) Sometimes I drive folks nuts, asking too many questions.. (that's is part of the buyer's responsibility also) :D If I was a Rep I'd try to find a buyer for his "new" laser then sell him a Fiber! ;)

[matthew knott]

Its not all bad news for him as the parts he's run can be fixed, i think hes just in a 'blame everyone but himself mode', he ordered the wrong machine, I think he thought all laser engravers are the same. Not the reps fault at all, he did his job. I think he has to try and sell the machine or do some kind of PX deal but i think we wants a zero cost option as he cant seem to see how this is his fault. I think he called the manufacture first and when they couldnt help i got the call. Its one of those things that's really easy to see how it happened after the event.

Guy gets send bits out to see if laser engraving works for him
Success, he gets his bits back and they work fantastically
Thinks i can do this myself, googles laser engraving machines, finds one, buys one,
Doesn't do the job, he won't take the blame as he was sold the wrong machine !!!

As Martin says "If I was a Rep I'd try to find a buyer for his "new" laser then sell him a Fiber! ;)
Thats what i have suggested, but he wants to know who is going to pay the money hes lost plus the extra he will have to spend !!! Bless em :)
This will not end well

[Dave Sheldrake]

This will not end well

Especially if the substrate is Aluminium and the AR coating is only on one side of the lens ;)

I get it on a daily basis when doing consultancy work.

"My laser has gone wrong, it just stopped working"

Eventually they mention they pressure washed it on the inside to get it clean like their 20 year old manual milling machine.

When it's pointed out that they have effectively tried to drive a powered up toaster through a car wash they want to know who is going to pay and usually decide it's going to be their vendor as he didn't tell they it couldn't be jet washed!!

What's the betting Matt that the seller gets rubbished to all in sundry for "ripping them off" (and usually leaving out the bit about them buying the wrong machine)

cheers

Dave

[Chuck Stone]

Eventually they mention they pressure washed it on the inside to get it clean like their 20 year old manual milling machine.

When it's pointed out that they have effectively tried to drive a powered up toaster through a car wash they want to know who is going to pay and usually decide it's going to be their vendor as he didn't tell they it couldn't be jet washed!!

gee.. I hope the sales rep remembered to tell them that they can't sandblast their lenses, either.
Oh.. and when it's cold in the winter, don't use a flamethrower to warm up the machine.
and don't use a fire hose to cool it off in the summer.
and don't fill the laser bed with dictionaries and encyclopedias to eliminate spelling and factual errors.

[John Coloccia]

Sound like stealth gloat to me, Matt:

"Hey, I have at least one more job coming in!"

Good luck. :)

[Dave Sheldrake]

I'm astounded on a daily basis by what people do to laser machines Chuck ;)

"it gets cleaned every day" (humm so the 6" of junk in the bottom is meant to be there?)

"The control pad isn't responding, it just suddenly stopped" (That'll be the fire that did it then)

"Why do I have to change the power supply , that 40 watt tube ran fine on the 80 watt supply" (up till the point it stopped then?)

"Can I do tattoo's with these?" (Oh dear)

"Somebody on the web does fingernail engravings" (yes and the Earth is flat and Her Majesty is a reptile according to some web sites)

"I got ripped off, the things a heap" (it was probably ok before it went down the stairs actually)

and my personal favourite!! TADA!!

"I managed to fill the entire tube with water but it meant taking the end off, why doesn't it work now?" (Thud)

I do wonder how as a species we have survived this far sometimes :)

cheers

Dave

[Mike Null]

We're really wandering here---let's try to stay on topic if there's anything left to say.