Quarter Sawn White Oak dining/breakfast table

[Irene Liev]

I have been lurking about these forums for some time, and have lately been sifting through the plethora of finishing information.

I am finishing a quarter sawn white oak trestle table and am looking for advice for my specific case. There is some mahogany in the base: the horizontal beam which is curved, as well as the triangles forming the top and bottom of the legs. I am not ashamed to admit to being a complete and utter newbie, so any advice would be greatly appreciated.

For ease of access, I was thinking of finishing some of the components separately before putting the table together? The top would be finished as one piece, the mahogany base pieces would be stained separately, then the base would be assembled after staining in step 1. I would attach the top to the base after everything is finished.

I saw the following link with some advice on QSWO finishing:
http://www.homesteadfinishingproducts.com/pdf/mission_oak_rev1-2011.pdf

However, it doesn't look like there is any grain filling involved? This is a kitchen table and I would like the finish to be somewhat smooth, although not glassy, glossy or plasticky.
Also, I lean towards general finishes products as I have seen the results before (on walnut) and really like them.
Here is what I was thinking of doing, and would love some feedback. The goal is to make the rays/figure pop. I don't particularly want a very dark finish on the oak, but a medium stain is fine, and of course contrast with the mahogany. After sanding to 180 grit, here goes:

1. Transtint stain #6002 GOLDEN BROWN or #6009 DARK VINTAGE MAPLE on the oak, and #6010 RED MAHOGANY or #6003 REDDISH BROWN on the mahogany
or
1. General Finishes Oil Base Liquid Wipe-on Penetrating Wood Stains, Honey Maple or Maple or Pecan on the Oak and Warm Cherry or Mahogany on the Mahogany
Dry overnight and sand with 320 grit

2. General Finishes Seal-a-cell. Dry overnight and then sand with 320.

3. Here I don't know what to do.... Gel stain or paste wood filler? Gel stain is described in the PDF , does it fill the open pores? For colors I like samples 4 and 5 in the PDF, which correspond to Candlelit and Antique Walnut GF Oil Base Gel Wood Stains, but would using the same color on the mahogany and the oak still keep the contrast between the two? Or going with paste wood sealer I'm thinking BEHLEN PORE-O-PAC MAHOGANY PASTE WOOD FILLER?

I saw that with the paste wood filler I have the process: apply with grain, then against working it in, allow to dry somewhat to a pasty texture, scrape with an old credit card and then remove the excess with a coarse cloth. Allow to dry for 2-3 days.
With the Gel stain I saw that the stain is applied, wiped and then allowed to dry overnight.
Do I sand lightly with either before moving forward?

4. Apply 2+ coats of Arm-r-seal satin finish, 'til I'm happy. light sanding in between?

Then again, I really love the natural wood, and some folks I know are so averse to staining, so maybe I should scratch all the above and go with a natural look? Maybe just paste wood filler and arm-r-seal? That would be fine, but I really want the rays to pop.... so, what, danish oil somewhere in the mix? This is where I start getting lost.

I realize I have many questions, but again, any advice would be greatly appreciated....

[Scott Holmes]

Sanding after you color the wood will be an issue, unless you are very adept at sanding. Sanding too much will remove color and be very difficult to add it back uniformly.

TransTint dyes are an excellent way to pop the fleck in QSWO. I didn't read the article you linked; I know Jeff and I'm sure his advice is sound. QSWO doesn't really need to be filled the grain is small and tight. Mahogany should be filled IF it's the top surface, for legs and aprons filling is not needed. Your varnish will fill the QSWO and the mahogany will be just fine.

Seal-a-cell is a wipe on poly, plain and simple... sanding between coats will take dozens of coats to build a reasonable finish for a breakfast table top. Apply 3 or 4 coats per day sanding very lightly before each set of 3 or 4 wipe-on coats. I would do no less than 12 wipe on coats for a breakfast table. Personally, I would not use poly on a table, I prefer the harder alkyd or phenolic resin varnishes on table tops.

[John TenEyck]

I have finished several QSWO pieces using the general process outlined by Jeff Jewitt in the link you provided. Here's a shot of one of them.

268786

And some color samples:

268787

The process was:

1) Sand to 180 grit
2) Thoroughly vacuum, blow out the pores with compressed air, vacuum again.
3) Dye using Transtint in DNA. Using alcohol avoids the grain raising problem that can occur on woods like oak. I wipe it on and don't have any problems with lap marks, but you could spray it on, too.
4) Seal with Seal-A-Cell, one coat.
5) Glaze with General Finishes Gel Stain, wiping it off very well so that the stain stays only in the pores. It's in the pores, but it doesn't fill the pores like a grain filler does.
6) Finish with 3 or 4 coats of Arm-R-Seal Satin. There is no sanding until after the second coat of finish. I use a 320 mesh thin foam pad to scuff sand everything after each subsequent coat. Then I vacuum and use a tack rag or microfiber cloth to make sure all the dust is off.

I like the look of the grain on oak, so I don't fill the grain. I wouldn't fill the grain for a table top either, unless the customer requested it. I would just add a couple more coats of finish. If I did have to fill the grain, I would use a colored grain filler after the Seal-A-Cell. The gel stain may no longer be needed with this approach.

John

[Scott T Smith]

I have finished several QSWO pieces using the general process outlined by Jeff Jewitt in the link you provided. Here's a shot of one of them.

268786

And some color samples:

268787

The process was:

1) Sand to 180 grit
2) Thoroughly vacuum, blow out the pores with compressed air, vacuum again.
3) Dye using Transtint in DNA. Using alcohol avoids the grain raising problem that can occur on woods like oak. I wipe it on and don't have any problems with lap marks, but you could spray it on, too.
4) Seal with Seal-A-Cell, one coat.
5) Glaze with General Finishes Gel Stain, wiping it off very well so that the stain stays only in the pores. It's in the pores, but it doesn't fill the pores like a grain filler does.
6) Finish with 3 or 4 coats of Arm-R-Seal Satin. There is no sanding until after the second coat of finish. I use a 320 mesh thin foam pad to scuff sand everything after each subsequent coat. Then I vacuum and use a tack rag or microfiber cloth to make sure all the dust is off.

I like the look of the grain on oak, so I don't fill the grain. I wouldn't fill the grain for a table top either, unless the customer requested it. I would just add a couple more coats of finish. If I did have to fill the grain, I would use a colored grain filler after the Seal-A-Cell. The gel stain may no longer be needed with this approach.

John

Hey John - do you have any more photo's of that break front that you can share? It looks like a nice piece and I'd like to study it in greater depth! Thanks.

Scott

[John TenEyck]

Hey John - do you have any more photo's of that break front that you can share? It looks like a nice piece and I'd like to study it in greater depth! Thanks.

Scott


Hi Scott, Thanks, and yes I do have more pictures of it. Even better, I have a SketchUp drawing that's pretty complete, even most of the joinery. It's my original design, and you are welcome to use it as is or modify it any way you'd like. The pictures are actually sort of a build along with captions at the bottom. Here's a link to the drawing and pictures. https://sites.google.com/site/jteneyckwoodworker/current-projects/and-more

John

[Irene Liev]

Hi John,

Thank you so much. I love the way that cabinet turned out. What are the colors of the dye and gel used? Is it Dark Mission Brown Transtint and Walnut GF?

Thank you again!

[John TenEyck]

Hi John,

Thank you so much. I love the way that cabinet turned out. What are the colors of the dye and gel used? Is it Dark Mission Brown Transtint and Walnut GF?

Thank you again!

Thanks. I had a lot of fun researching Stickley construction details as I designed it. I even visited the Stickley store in Victor, NY for some personal inspection of what they had on the showroom floor. The wood came from a couple of white oak logs that I milled with a chainsaw lumber mill. I was pretty pleased with how it came out. More importantly, so was the owner.

The finish recipe is a little different, and was chosen by the owner to compliment his other Arts and Crafts pieces:

1) 10 drops Transtint Dark Mission Brown + 10 drops of Medium Brown per ounce of DNA. I wiped it on with a paper towel.
2) Seal-A-Cell, wiped on.
3) You are right, the gel stain was GF's Antique Walnut, wiped on and off with a paper towel.
4) The finish was GF's Arm-R-Seal Satin, 3 coats wiped on, yep, with a paper towel, scuff sanded after the first and second coat with a 320 grit thin foam pad.

John

[Scott T Smith]

Hi Scott, Thanks, and yes I do have more pictures of it. Even better, I have a SketchUp drawing that's pretty complete, even most of the joinery. It's my original design, and you are welcome to use it as is or modify it any way you'd like. The pictures are actually sort of a build along with captions at the bottom. Here's a link to the drawing and pictures. https://sites.google.com/site/jteneyckwoodworker/current-projects/and-more

John

Thanks John! Wow, that really turned out nice. I've used a similar dye mix on some of my projects, but w/o the glazing steps. I'll have to try that on the next one.

Scott

[Kent A Bathurst]

I've used Jeff Jewitt's mathod for many years on QSWO.....but I have muddled it around a bit to suit my personal preferences.

John's comments are right on target.

At my spot on the time-space continuum, though, I use waterborne TransFast powder, and then 3/4# - 1# ultra pale shellac as a sealer. I just happen to like shellac - not a commentary on other products. Plus, as I learned from the cognoscenti here, waterborne transfast powder is much, much more resistant to "lift" than waterborne transtint. John gets around this entirely via alcohol.

If you really want to fill the pores, use a filler instead of the gel stain in that step.