Leg vise retrofit

[Jim Matthews]

I'm dealing with Seasonal humidity problems in my basement shop - in this case the leg vise is either too tight to open, or too loose to adjust.

I used the LV acme screw, which has excellent holding power and spins in and out quickly - but the works sag so much when it's more than 6" open that the lower pin bar hangs up and must be pried open.
The works ride on an inline skate wheel... does anyone have a clear reference on how to set this properly?

I'm considering the W8 wedged leg vise shown elsewhere, which has the appeal of being removable when not in use.

Has anyone dealt with adjusting the leg vise due to increased humidity in their shop?
Are there alternatives out there for a leg vise, modifying quick release vises to take the place of an Acme screw?

My bench has a salvaged laminate top (almost 3" thick hard maple), resting on a set of drawers.
I like the arrangement and only want to get a working leg vise that won't wedge itself, half the year.

[Steve Voigt]

Hey Jim,
I also use the LV screw. Works great.
Some photos of your vise would help…but I notice you refer to a "skate wheel", and not to skate wheels, plural…maybe therein lies the problem? Properly set up, you should be able to take your bench from the desert to the rain forest without a problem.
A couple quick pics of my set up. There is a skateboard wheel that supports the parallel guide from below, on the outside of the bench…

268680

And then another one that supports the parallel guide from above, on the inside…

268681

As you can see, the leg mortise is super sloppy--there's about 1/32 of play on each side, maybe more, and almost an 1/8 on the top and the bottom. It could be much sloppier than this. Basically, the leg mortise is purely clearance, so seasonal humidity should never be an issue. I built my vise in January, when it was bone dry here. Had to adjust a week later, and haven't had to touch it since then--it made it through a super-humid summer with no problems.

Here are three helpful links. First is Jameel Abraham's prototype for the glide leg vise (http://oudluthier.blogspot.com/2008/06/bench-3-leg-vise-breakthrough.html). I copied his skateboard wheel mechanism pretty faithfully--went down to the local skate shop and they gave me a box of used wheels for free.
Second is the hardware he sells (http://benchcrafted.com/Benchbuilding.html) for this vise, in case you don't want to make your own. The bench screws are crazy expensive, but if you scroll down to the bottom of the page, the roller bracket hardware is only $39. That's totally reasonable, but I was really pinching pennies during my bench build, so I rolled my own.
Third, here's a link to the pdf instructions for installing the glide leg vise (http://benchcrafted.com/PDF%20Files/BC_Glide_Leg_Vise_Instructions_Templates_Nov2012.p df). You don't need to use his bench screw, but this will help you visualize how to set it all up. By the way, I didn't use his triple row of guide holes 5/16 apart--I used chris schwarz's plan of two rows with the holes 1/2 apart. I wish I'd done it the other way. More holes, closer together, would be better.
But that is literally my only quibble. I used a face vise for 15 years, and after switching to the leg vise on my new bench, I wouldn't dream of going back. The leg vise is so much better! And I have never found myself lusting for a criss-cross, chain vise, or any of that other fancy-schmancy expensive stuff. The pin with parallel guide is simple, dependable, and bombproof. So, don't give up on your leg vise!

-Steve

[Paul R Miller]

Did you mean V8 wedge vice? If you do decide to go that way, let me know and I'll give you all the help I can. It works great and will do things a screw vice can't. I live on Cowichan Bay in B.C., right on the water and there's no issue with the vice(s).

[Derek Cohen]

I'm dealing with Seasonal humidity problems in my basement shop - in this case the leg vise is either too tight to open, or too loose to adjust.

I used the LV acme screw, which has excellent holding power and spins in and out quickly - but the works sag so much when it's more than 6" open that the lower pin bar hangs up and must be pried open.
The works ride on an inline skate wheel... does anyone have a clear reference on how to set this properly? ....

Hi Jim

It is the sagging that indicates that your chop is not supported and balanced when moving in-and-out.

My original set up was pretty much in line with the BC design, except in wood ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/OhSoclose_html_m5a539bd1.jpg

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/OhSoclose_html_m71696051.jpg

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/OhSoclose_html_m1f749d92.jpg

This worked reasonably well, however it was dependent on the placement of a pin for extension.

The next upgrade came with the installation of the prototype AYS chain adjuster ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/AYSLegViseChainAdjuster_html_5654bec3.jpg

This did away with the pin setting. You will note that the parallel guide is solid. The chain takes the place of the inner wheel. Once tuned (info on my website (http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/AYSLegViseChainAdjuster.html)), there is no loss of smoothness in movement.

I did discover that the parallel guide could move laterally, which created too much racking for me - I prefer to not have to crank down the chop to obtain an even, secure grip on boards. Consequently, I came up with a gude for the parallel guide, the "parallel guide guide (http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/ParallelGuideGuide.html)" :)

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/ParallelGuideGuide_html_m6b2f1d93.jpg

Now the legvise does not require a pin adjuster, moves sweetly, and is predictably reliable in holding boards.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Hilton Ralphs]

Nobody likes a sagging or sloppy chop no matter what age but that link you posted Derek has some seriously fine ideas.

Thanks.

Jim, going to send you an email.

[Jim Matthews]

Did you mean V8 wedge vice? If you do decide to go that way, let me know and I'll give you all the help I can. It works great and will do things a screw vice can't. I live on Cowichan Bay in B.C., right on the water and there's no issue with the vice(s).

Thanks for posting - your design is the one that most appeals to me.
I particularly like the idea of a removable leg vise that has so much range.

The original bench had a face vise mounted under the overhanging top.
The leg vise is a retrofit, and alignment problems may be much of my problem.

Still, if I'm going to rebuild it will be with something clever like this solution.
(Now if I could figure out how to retrofit the top with the sliding inset vises - I would really have something!)

Best regards from the "other" Coast!

[Jim Matthews]

I see considerably more play in your version than the hack job I've made.

I think the pin board is jammed, given the grain orientation.
Thanks for putting me on the right path, there.

[Jim Matthews]

Thanks to all for the pointers.

I'm hesitant to put more metal fixtures in my shop -
rust is a constant problem here.

I think the AYS chain adjuster is elegant, yet I'm hesitant to commit more
hardware to a leg vise where I fear the chop has twisted along with the pin board jamming in it's through mortise.

I was away for two weeks, and came home to find the works frozen.

The main screw was oiled, so it spins but the rest? - urk.

I'll take some pictures later, but I think reaming the mortise seems an obvious first step.
After that, I'll probably build one of Paul Miller's versions.

I do like the "Egyptian architect" aspect of the wedge fixtures.
It seems less likely to have misaligned moving parts.

[Paul R Miller]

Jim, if your bench is 3" maple the wagon vices are a really easy retrofit. Just make up the vice as a unit, cut a hole in the bench, and glue it in. You could even taper the sides a bit for easier fitting.268715268716

[Sam Stephens]

fwiw, my leg vice has no such wheel and doesn't bind. My chop is SYP and in NC, the temp/humidity swings in my garage are substantial. the chop is supported solely by the LV screw. the pin board has just a hair of clearance from the leg IIRC. i can do some measurements, but I can assure you, when I made it, there was no precision involved, just cut to fit. I do like the wheelie's though.

[Jim Matthews]

I double checked -

my pin board is dragging both in the mortice and along a plywood gusset that's underneath rather than above it.
Those are the first things I must redress.
******

Worse than I thought - all the mechanical fixtures have worked loose, presumably from the reaction forces generated clamping.
Time for a rebuild!

[Wayne Morley]

Did you mean V8 wedge vice? If you do decide to go that way, let me know and I'll give you all the help I can. It works great and will do things a screw vice can't. I live on Cowichan Bay in B.C., right on the water and there's no issue with the vice(s).

This is a cool design, but I am curious as to what it can do that a screw type vice can't.

[Paul R Miller]

Wayne, it can be removed completely in less than a minute when you don't want a vice handle in your way and the chop can be elevated so that it can work against a dog in the bench top. There are a couple of videos of it in action in this thread. http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?203308-Outside-the-box-work-bench

I'm not pushing this. It's just an alternative that I designed that will work well for some. I've published the plans free ( the sketch up linked in the above post) and I even send a free marquetry logo to anyone who builds the leg vice.... just for fun. I don't profit from it.

[Jim Matthews]

The Sketchup makes so much clear.

I'm growing in appreciation for what lamination can do for a designer.
How did you punch the square dog holes in the multiple layers for the bench top?

This is a really clever take on workbenches, and I'm surprised it's not better known.

Kudos.

[Paul R Miller]

I have a full build blog on the bench elsewhere but apparently I'm not allowed to give you a link here. It explains the square holes in detail. I will PM you the link. The bench isn't better known because I just built it last year and it has never been published except on *********** where it was a big hit. There are a few out there though.

[Hilton Ralphs]

I'll say it. Lumberjocks. Look for shipwright.

[Jim Matthews]

Thanks for the help, everybody.
The retrofit got the pinboard moving freely.

I'm building one of Paul's designs and will post how that integrates, later.
(Don't hold your breath - I'm more than a little slow.)

I appreciate the assist, I was "stuck".