PDA

View Full Version : Cutting Order



Lee DeRaud
05-26-2005, 9:12 PM
I've got a ULS Versalaser, using the 'advanced' driver and Corel 12. The driver does the colors in the order shown in the driver properties tab (typically black, red,...,etc), no problem. But within each color, there does not appear to be any logic to the order in which elements are rastered or cut within each color. I say "elements" because it will even stop in the middle of a curve, go off and do a separate curve, and then come back and finish the first one.

It's not really a problem, but I can envision situations where I want to control what cuts when, preferably without having to break it up into separate print jobs.

Any idea what algorithms are in play here?

Jerry Allen
05-26-2005, 9:24 PM
It's Corel.
I keep my Object Manager available. I use it to make sure that the last outline is Front, top of the list, when cutting so it doesn't try to cut an internal pice after the outside.
If you combine curves, they should all print together.

Check your object mgr. often and you'l get a better idea of what's up. You can tweek the order there for best output.
When I use more than 2 colors, I use the Manual color fill setting in the driver. That affects print order also.

Keith Outten
05-27-2005, 12:01 AM
Lee,

I suspect the problem is a combination of Corel Draw and your print driver. I own an Epilog Legend and use Corel Draw 12 and I have never seen this kind of thing happen. Vectors always are completed before moving to the next element and the outside is always the last vector cut by default by my machine. I expect that all of the Epilog users will report the same experience.

Kevin Huffman
05-27-2005, 1:52 PM
Hey Lee,

The file that you are working on, is it one that is made in Corel or imported in from another program (like autocad).

I say Autocad because when it exports lets say a square, it exports 4 different lines that just happen to be laying on each other. If the image is broken up in sections like what you are talking about just about any laser will do that, our lasers do that. Skip here and there and do the job in little pieces. There are other programs that can do that to, I just see it more from Autocad.

If it is something that is made in Corel it should be a complete path and should cut out in one motion. Then you are looking at something in the driver or firmware on the machine telling it to do that.

Lee DeRaud
05-27-2005, 2:20 PM
Hey Lee,

The file that you are working on, is it one that is made in Corel or imported in from another program (like autocad).

I say Autocad because when it exports lets say a square, it exports 4 different lines that just happen to be laying on each other. If the image is broken up in sections like what you are talking about just about any laser will do that, our lasers do that. Skip here and there and do the job in little pieces. There are other programs that can do that to, I just see it more from Autocad.

If it is something that is made in Corel it should be a complete path and should cut out in one motion. Then you are looking at something in the driver or firmware on the machine telling it to do that.
I've seen odd ordering on pretty much everything. One file in particular is generated by a piece of VBA code I wrote, so I've got a pretty good idea where the subpaths start and stop and what order they went into the file.

Like I said, not really a problem (so far), just bizarre.

Jerry Allen
05-27-2005, 2:24 PM
Right, if you break it up and edit, group and ungroup, Corel will move stuff around in the object manager. Imported stuff is usually lines and curves, with potentially some extraneous nodes thrown in for good measure. That's why regardless of whether you created it in Corel and then broke it up, or it was separate lines to begin with, the best bet is to combine the vectors and then check the Object Manager's order.

Kevin Huffman
05-27-2005, 2:41 PM
Hey Lee,

I would suggest to talk to your laser tech support. Maybe even email the file you are working on and give them as much information as you can, firmware version you are using, driver version, program, all the settings in the driver and anything else you could think of that might help them help you.

Roy Brewer
05-28-2005, 10:17 AM
One file in particular is generated by a piece of VBA code I wrote, so I've got a pretty good idea where the subpaths start and stop and what order they went into the file.
Lee,
You have our curiosity aroused. Can you confirm that it is *not* cutting in the same order as displayed in the Object Manager?

Saying it came from your VBA code stops slightly short of confirmation. I.e., under "bizzare" circumstances (reverse arc in "polyline", e.g.) Corel could "order" path unexpectedly.

Lee DeRaud
05-28-2005, 11:01 AM
Lee,
You have our curiosity aroused. Can you confirm that it is *not* cutting in the same order as displayed in the Object Manager?

Saying it came from your VBA code stops slightly short of confirmation. I.e., under "bizzare" circumstances (reverse arc in "polyline", e.g.) Corel could "order" path unexpectedly.I'll try to get a look later this weekend. Unfortunately, "playing with the laser" isn't even close to the top of today's priority list...for that matter, "looking at this forum" isn't either, but the coffee seems to be taking forever to brew this morning. :(

Rodne Gold
05-28-2005, 11:26 AM
Does the driver have some sort of optimisation?
A shortest path optimization can do this , tho its not a well written implementation if it does.
It could also be that there is NO optimization and the graphic is just being sent as drawn?

Lee DeRaud
05-28-2005, 12:32 PM
Does the driver have some sort of optimisation?
A shortest path optimization can do this , tho its not a well written implementation if it does.
It could also be that there is NO optimization and the graphic is just being sent as drawn?
Ok, mystery (such as it is) solved. There's a combobox over in the 'Advanced' tab of the printer driver properties dialog named "Vector Enhancement". Options are "Off", "Sort Only", "Enhance Only", and "Enhance and Sort"...it was set to "Enhance and Sort". (I don't know if that's the default or if the dealer set it that way during installation. I didn't touch it, and the documentation they gave me for the driver doesn't even show it: it appears to be for an older version of the driver.)

Setting it to "Off" prints things in the order the objects were created (assuming no re-ordering)...I think that works out to "back to front", i.e. bottom to top on the Object Manager list. I suspect the "right" setting (or at least the most intuitive for me) is "Enhance Only": the older driver the document describes has a "Curve Enhancement" checkbox that smoothes curves with some kind of look-ahead speed adjustment.

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this. ;)

Mike Mackenzie
06-01-2005, 12:54 PM
Lee,

Let me try to explain what the driver is doing. First the CURVE ENHANCEMENT feature was only in the Windows 95/98 drivers. These drivers cut by drawing order only the colors had nothing to do with the cutting order.

When XP/2000 came onto the scene there process was to cut in color order. Thus the addition of the vector optimization. with enhance and sort on it will do all raster properties first then do all vector properties and yes it is the closest path to the last vector completed that will be next in the order. It is a little funny sometimes but it works.

I expect improvements on the next version of the XP driver.

If you have on the enhance only that is the same as the curve enhancement mode of the old drivers. You can then use the order command in Corel and set-up the file to cut in the specific order you wish.

The reason for the different modes was to be able to work with other programs like AutoCad, Illustrator, etc.

Tracey Bakewell
02-03-2007, 9:35 PM
I was reading this thread and it sounds like I'm having a similar problem, mine seems more like a layer-ing issue though. If you look at the attached file, it's not lasering like it's displayed. I'm getting the vector line of california through the guy kicking???

Dave Jones
02-04-2007, 12:01 PM
If you go to View > Simple Wireframe you'll see all of your vectors. If you're going to laser the vectors, you need to break the vectors at the intersections and remove the parts you don't want to vector. Covering one shape with another changes the way they raster, but not vector.

Mike Null
02-06-2007, 12:34 PM
Lee:
Just curious if you set up the ULS color palette?

Tracey Bakewell
02-06-2007, 12:44 PM
Yup, I did. I also read the manual a bit and found the Clipart setting. Tried that last night and that only rasters black, it turned all the other colors off.

After reading the previous post, I had to go through the entire drawing, layer, by layer, and use the remove front from back button (something like that) and that helped crop the over-lapping, but it took me forever. Now I have a lot of overlapping vector lines I'll need to go through and cut-out, but it looks pretty good the way it is now. I'll post the current version later tonight.

Mike Null
02-06-2007, 4:56 PM
Tracey:

Was it necessary to run this as a vector file or could you have converted it to a grayscale and engraved it as a bitmap?

Lee DeRaud
02-06-2007, 6:05 PM
Lee:
Just curious if you set up the ULS color palette?Yeah, it's part of the standard installation. Not the issue here: if you don't have RGB colors the driver likes, nothing happens.