First boat build - advice sought

[Peter Pedisich]

Hello all,

I'm usually over on the Neanderthal forum, but often stop in here to browse as I've considered building a boat for 3-4 years now. At first I saw plans for a small plywood pram that looked like a good place for a beginner to start, then realized I would not get much use for it on the Great South Bay off Long Island's south shore.

I then read the small craft books at my library and really wanted to build a Dory from John Gardner's book, then I saw the Lumberyard Skiff from WoodenBoat magazine... Indecision and a young son kept me from committing.

Fast forward a few years and a friend and I realized we both had the same idea to build a boat, and have decided to try to do it together. We have this idea that if we spend 1-3 years of weekends and nights working on something, it should be useful in our bay - not just doing it for the sake of doing it. I'm the one with hand and power tool woodworking experience, and he has the sailing experience (plus some general carpentry/woodworking experience, and an artist's eye). In my younger days I had my Captain's License 100 ton inland, but let it lapse over 20 years ago. OK, background info done, on to the question!:D

We both like the layout and lines of the O'Day Mariner, a 19' fiberglass boat I'm sure many of you are familiar with, and a boat we feel is well suited to our bay. Can this boat be rendered in wood? Glen-L has some sailboats in plywood in the 17-19' range, just not sure if plywood is the best way to go.

Any and all input welcomed! I won't be offended to hear I'm crazy, as I've been married for 19 years so that's nothing new. I'm really looking for cold hard truth, age and experience, encouragement... whatever you have to offer! Many thanks in advance just for sitting through this long winded explanation.;)

Thanks,

Pete

[Jim Ritter]

Hi Pete, WoodenBoat Magazine has a great verity of plans for sale. You are not crazy, but then again it's me talking and I do boat work for a living.
Jim

[Peter Pedisich]

Jim,

Thanks... I have been looking through them all night when I should be sleeping!

These look interesting:
http://www.woodenboatstore.com/product/19_6_Centerboard_Sloop_TRITON
http://www.woodenboatstore.com/product/plan_Wittholz_14_11_Catboat

maybe this is more realistic? http://www.woodenboatstore.com/product/plan_12_10_Pooduck_Skiff

-Pete

[Paul R Miller]

I have a friend who is very knowledgable in the small boat world. You should check out his blog (doryman@ blogspot)The blogs themselves have lots of info on all kinds of small boats and there are many links to other sources. Most all of the info is from and about owner/builders. Im a retired wooden boatbuilder but mostly of larger yachts and commercial boats.
I'll give you any help I can but start with Michael's blog.

[Peter Pedisich]

Paul, Thanks for the blog info - looks very informative, will be reading more there. -Pete

[Aleks Hunter]

Hi Pete,
If you wan t to get your feet wet and not drown, start with the skiff. the Three magic words in the description are "no lofting required."

[Peter Pedisich]

Hi Pete,
If you wan t to get your feet wet and not drown, start with the skiff. the Three magic words in the description are "no lofting required." Thanks Aleks, I did some basic lofting in mechanical drawing in Jr. High... but that was back when my phone number began with letters instead of numbers, and Jimmy Cagney was still alive:eek: ...long forgotten!

[Sam Murdoch]

We both like the layout and lines of the O'Day Mariner, a 19' fiberglass boat I'm sure many of you are familiar with, and a boat we feel is well suited to our bay. Can this boat be rendered in wood? Glen-L has some sailboats in plywood in the 17-19' range, just not sure if plywood is the best way to go.



Pete

A qualified yes to your question - if you can get some plans but the cabin and other details will need some rework to lend themselves to being built in wood. I agree with Jim Ritter's suggestion to find some plans from WoodenBoat. You will have all the drawings, details and dimensions that you need plus a great deal of support info from those who have built previous versions. There must be a boat in their library of drawings that will suit your sailing needs as well as the O'Day and even better satisfy your wooden boat building aspirations.

[Jim Ritter]

If you choose one that needs lofting I'd help you out. I often teach it, and love all the information that it generates when you know how to look it it.
Jim

[Peter Pedisich]

Thanks Sam. Searching through WoodenBoat now...

[Peter Pedisich]

If you choose one that needs lofting I'd help you out. I often teach it, and love all the information that it generates when you know how to look it it.
Jim

Jim,
Thanks for the offer... I'll be keeping it in mind for sure - hope you're enjoying the nice weather today and avoiding the crazy drivers out there!
-pete

[Jim Ritter]

Actually I'm in Maine at the moment gotta pick up my son at camp. But also stop at Lie-Nielsen and Liberty Tools. It's beautiful up here also.
Jim

[Joe Hillmann]

If you want to build a sailboat take a look at the weekender, by Stevenson projects. I have built small boats with a similar technique as they use, they are very simple to build and you can get boat that is useable in a weekend, if you don't bother with the finishing touches or it could take years to build if you take your time and make it perfect.

[Dave Richards]

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3319/3516738826_6a500d088d.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/8294157@N08/3516738826/)

I built a Stevenson Weekender about ten years ago. It's a good first boat if you want an easy boat to build. It was also a lot of fun to sail. If I was building another one, I would leave the cabin off and run seats all the way up to the mast. A friend did that with his and I think it is a much better boat because of it.

If you want to go with a more traditional style of construction, take a look at Ducktrap Boats. You might also want to take a look at Iain Oughtred's catalog of designs as well as John Welsford's designs. I've got my eye on an Oughtred double ender for my next boat.

[Peter Pedisich]

Dave, thanks for the great info! -pete

[Dave Richards]

You're welcome, Pete.

FWIW, I made the mast taller than the plan indicated. I forget just how much, maybe 4 feet. And the bowsprit was lengthened to six feet overall. This kept the proportions of the fore triangle the same as on the plan. Lengthening the mast allowed me to get the boom up a bit higher so it didn't go boom on my brain bucket quite so often. It also allowed for a better lead on the peak halyard. It also allowed for more space between the shrouds and the gaff jaws. Some builders reported the gaff jaws got hung up in the shrouds. I used soft eyes at the top of the shrouds which worked nicely and didn't require a bunch of additional eyebolts at the top. I originally had the jib hanked on the forestay but I found it put the jib too far forward. When I had the tanbark colored sails made, I had a luff wire installed and put the jib on a little roller furler with the halyard attached to the mast at the height shown in the plan. I didn't like the self tending jib so I set it up with conventional jib sheets.

Here's a shot I took of the Weekender without the cabin.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7239/7323282714_307e8b90ff.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/8294157@N08/7323282714/)

Other than leaving off the cabin, running seats all the way to the mast and replacing the wheel with a tiller, it is pretty much by the plans.

[John Bailey]

I've always liked this Paul Gartside design. Probably a bit more boat than the O'Day, but a pretty straight forward strip build.

http://store.gartsideboats.com/collections/all/products/19-ft-centerboard-sloop-spartan-ii-design-164 (http://store.gartsideboats.com/collections/all/products/19-ft-centerboard-sloop-spartan-ii-design-164)

[Bruce Heys]

Peter, I'm in a similar situation as yourself looking for a sailboat design of around 20'. Like you, I find the O'Day boat is indeed attractive. A neighbor owned one - it performed well in most all aspects. A used glass boat can often be had for less than the material costs for a new wood boat. Alas, not much passion in that. To my eye, John (in the previous post) hit the nail on the head recommending Gartside. In particular, I like #170. http://store.gartsideboats.com/collections/sailboats/products/20-ft-centreboard-sloop-170. This design is big for it's overall length with a load waterline of over 19' and a bunch of form stability in the hull with a beam of 7'8". It has a simple and easy to reef rig with a simple to raise mast on a tabernacle. It has 600 lbs. of lead ballast. It has fairly flat rear sections which will aid launching from a trailer. I also think it will be a great performer. Two other designers I find particularly noteworthy are Iain Oughtred and Francois Vivier. I built Oughtred's 16' Fulmar in 2003 - it's a very fast and exciting boat. Look at Oughtred's Kotik and Wee Seal. Vivier plans and patterns are expensive up front, but everything is described and facilitated for a rapid build. Look at the Beniguet and Jewell. Jewell comes in CNC kit form. Jewell shares some hull similarities to many Welsford designs with their flat bottoms.

[James Runchey]

Go for it, Pete
Many years ago, in 1959 to be exact, I built a plywood sailboat from plans in Mechanix Illustrated magazine. My first big woodworking project. It was a 14 foot international 14 class boat made of white oak and redwood with marine grade plywood covering. I still have the plans out in the workshop. At that time there were no power screwdrivers made and I borrowed a Yankee screwdriver which saved the day as I had 1400 brass screws to drive. Funny thing is I just sold the boat a month ago...been sitting in my barn for the last 23 years. My family and I had many happy times on the lake with this boat. Good luck with your project.

[Jack Battersby]

You should absolutely go for it. I have been building boats for many years and find nothing more satisfying than launching a new boat. I would suggest that you take inventory of the skills necessary to accomplish the build and make sure you are comfortable with them. I think the best way to do this is to do a small project. There is a lot less pressure making your way through a smaller project which uses many of the skills necessary for the bigger project. I believe at the beginning of this thread you mentioned a Gardner Dory. He has a number of boats which would prove to be a great learning experience for a larger project. When you are done making mistakes on the smaller project (and you will), you will go into the larger project feeling much better your chances.

There is nothing particularly difficult about building a small boat, for the most part it is just new skills which must be learned. Better to learn on a $1,000 project than a $30,000 project. Like Nike says, "just do it"

[Roderick Gentry]

I would look at some of the Bolger designs, they aren't all shoeboxs, though I kinda like those to. When I was at WBS, one of the advantages was the ability to try out all the boats they have on the waterfront. I got to try out a few that I had thought where exceptional, looking at them in the pages of WB and the design books. Turned out they rowed like dogs. Meanwhile, the Bolger Light Dory was exceptional.

I've been building fine furniture with hand tools since about '79, but when it comes to boats, wood epoxy is the way to go. Small projects get parked in harsh weather. Large ones often span several divorces, job losses, relocations, illnesses, etc... Wood epoxy is about as low maintenance as it gets, and the boats work better for being lighter. In that light I would also look at Devlin designs if you want conventional looking boats, that build fast, last long, and work well. The Nancy's China designs on up are nice boats.

[Peter Pedisich]

To all who have replied, thank you! We are still digesting the info, and hope to begin in the spring - when the heating oil bills taper off...

[Roderick Gentry]

Some of the smaller boats like ply conoes, kayaks, or dingies, will go together in a day, with lots of odd jobs left over. There are even some pretty large boats that will do the same. I would stick to the new boats and plans that allow you to get directly to the building. I designed my first boat, and took up yacht design as a hobby. If I had to spend a lifetime building boats, I would probably prefer it to be traditional ones, to the extent any such work is available. But stick to the modern plans if any part of this has to do with actually getting a boat in the water, paying the bills, storage, etc... Keep in mind that the first issue is to define the service, what you want the boat to do. Lets say that is be a jet ski. OK the old souls never designed those, and of course you really can't beat just buying one. But lets say you want a great canoe, one of the classics is the Chesnut prospector. OK. but it was designed as a pick-up truck (same thing with dories), it has to be radically redesigned to serve as a tripper or family canoe, so why not just build a boat that was designed for that service out of the box. Want a boat, to fish the Florida skinny water. Another product of the last half century. Boats are the same as every other product, you wouldn't build a model T for practical service on today's Hwys. Consider that some of these issues will get people killed. That was one of my first experiences with canoes, hauling out the bodies from a cold lake, where inexperienced users and bad designs hit chop, wind, and a cold lake.

[Jack Battersby]

Peter, if you are really willing to put a couple of years of weekends into the project and you like the look of the O'day sailors then in my opinion you should consider cold molding your boat. It is not difficult to do, yields a very (very) strong hull and you can easily accomplish the type of curves that you see in the O'day. You can use ripped plywood planking for the entire boat if you like or you can use plywood for the bottom layers and finish it off with a nice mahogany or the like over the top. It definitely isn't as quick or simple as putting together a slab sided boat with plywood sheets, but it is definitely within the grasp of the home builder and if you think this boat is going to be a keeper then you should at least consider doing a cold molded boat as it that technique better reflects the type of boat that you like.

If you are not familiar with the technique, I would recommend reading "The New Cold-Molded Boatbuilding: From Lofting to Launching" by Reuel Parker. Even if you don't end up going with a cold molded boat, there is a lot of great info in there for the first time builder of any boat. You can find it at Amazon.com if you are interested.