Legacy Lasers: Buy or Bust?

[Kevin M. Adams]

Hello all!

I am completely green to all of this. I understand that this subject has been talked to death but any information I can get from Legacy owners past and present would be greatly appreciated.

Soon I will be purchasing a laser system to expand my current online business. For a while now we have outsourced all of our engraving. However more recently shipping issues, and turn around times have caused some added stress. In order for our business to grow and compete in an ever growing online market we need to adapt and control the production of our designs.

Enter the Legacy Laser. I've done a bit of research on western laser systems (Trotec, Epilog) and just cannot stomach the price tag for now. Our budget for retooling and expansion is $10,000. At the moment I'm considering the 700 Series for its speed, bed size, and available auto focus upgrade. I have talk to Dean over at Legacy a bit and I couldn't be happier with his customer service so far. All of the reviews seem to be very positive as long as you are willing to put some labor into the machines.

Primarily we will be engraving and cutting gray odorless rubber, assorted wood types and acrylics. More specifically we would like to use the machine for wood inlay work and cutting smalls in high quantity as efficiently as possible (for our budget). I'm unsure on how powerful to go, what upgrades and replacement parts to get. Also, what sort of quality and repeatability should be expected. Lastly, is there a better system that could keep my investment under $8000 that anyone would suggest? Keep in mind I'm not in the market for used.

Again, I understand this subject has been covered but I can't seem to find real answers to my specific questions via searching. Thank you again for any and all advice and suggestion that come my way. :)

-Kevin

[Dan Hintz]

I can't speak to Legacy's quality or after-sale service (which is what matters most), but I do have a few comments...

Auto-focus... I don't use it. I mic every substrate and type it in (my ULS has an auto-Z table). If the AF is like Epilog's (a plunger), most here eventually disable it due to the problems it eventually causes with head crashes, stuck tables, etc. Don't pay money for something you will eventually disable.

Rely only on reviews you find at other forums, not their forums. I've never heard of Legacy until now, so that should tell you it's not a popular machine around these parts... CNCZone may be another avenue to check out. I've seen too many companies filter reviews on their websites to trust them.

a 60W tube will engrave quite a bit, and will certainly engrave faster than a 40W, particularly for deep engrave stuff like rubber. If you wish to cut in addition to engrave, figure on 1/4" being a typical thickness that will cut well. 3/8" isn't too bad on acrylic, but can become difficult with wood (but doable). Forget 1/2" wood for any quality, and acrylic can get nasty in a hurry.

Hope that helps...

[Dave Sheldrake]

Hiya Kevin,

I've owned one of the 700 series (but under a different name / brand) and that was bullet proof. (it was marketed here as the HPC 6840)

A few things to note:


Auto Focus $200

Errr not worth having most of the time, when they fail (which is quite often) the bed slams into the laser head as well as not being that accurate.I decided against having it on any of my Chinese machines and never regretted it :)


Spare Lens and Mirrors $250

Not too bad, typically a Chinese 20mm / 50.8 focal lens and a set of Moly mirrors runs about $130 + post / duty / taxes if purchased direct so not over priced really.


Onsite Setup and Training $1,500

Ummm if you can work out how to post to a forum then you already have more than enough skill to "set up" a 700 series without needing to pay for it.


what upgrades and replacement parts to get.

A final lens or two maybe, mirrors pretty much last years if they are the Mollys so no need to buy a load of them. They seem to come with a spare tube so that's covered (not that I would usually recommend buying spare tubes unless you cannot afford a day or so downtime to get one in-country)


what sort of quality and repeatability should be expected.

268299

485 parts made from 3.2mm MDF, no problems putting it together even after making quite a few of them on a 700. Quality wise....hummmm...it's Chinese so you aren't going to get Two-pak paint or polished ends on the sheet metal, the locks on the doors are rubbish etc...usual stuff really. Repeatability....it's stepper driven not servo so a little slower than Epilog / trotech etc etc and drives from toothed belts (that can get loose and jump teeth if not maintained) (Edit: actually a lot slower than servo driven western machines)


I'm unsure on how powerful to go

40 watt is fine for general stuff, not really very fast (3.2mm mdf cuts at circa 15mm per second @ 75% power) if you upgrade to 60 watts you get maybe 18 - 20mm per second (but the tubes cost more to replace) above 60 the tubes are so long they stick out a mile from the end of the machine.

Overall I'd be happy to pay $6,500 for one of those ....a little more refined than the usual "brutal" Chinese stuff, I ran mine to death for just over 2 years and now some 5 years later the guy I sold it to still uses it for Business and has only ever replaced tubes and a water flow sensor that "rocked up" due to hard water being used in the cooling system. Could you do better under $8k new? probably not in my opinion.

best wishes

Dave

ps: if you want to speak direct to 4 guys I know who all run 700 series (HPC 6840's) then drop me a PM and I'll put you in contact with them :)

pps: Dan beat me to it on the auto focus :) as said, Chinese autofocus should really be called best guess focus table smashers.

[Kevin M. Adams]

Thank you for the great info guys! I hope more keeps coming. By the way, nice Eagle Transporter Dave.

[Dan Hintz]

I just read this on their website:

Another reason for this policy is crucial; our laser engraving and etching machines come with a limited 1 year or 2 year manufacturer’s warranty and a 3 month warranty on the laser tube. The Warranty period starts once the cutter machine is shipped out from the manufacturer (Read more details on our warranty page). Essentially, this means that if your cutter machine ends up sitting in a warehouse for a couple of months, the manufacturer’s warranty period will still continue to count down, reducing the warranty time left to you.
Sooooo, if your laser site on a ship from China or in a warehouse (customs) for a few months, you get zero warranty on the tube, and lose 1/4th-1/3rd of your machine's warranty. That's... just wrong :-/

[Dave Sheldrake]

I just read this on their website:

Sooooo, if your laser site on a ship from China or in a warehouse (customs) for a few months, you get zero warranty on the tube, and lose 1/4th-1/3rd of your machine's warranty. That's... just wrong :-/

Ouch! nice find Dan, it's rare to see Chinese tubes in the west with a manufacture date that is less than 3 months old so from that I'd pretty much guess a tube "warranty" is probably non existant. If it runs from manufacture and the machine is a stock item with Legacy that could be months from manufacture date :(


By the way, nice Eagle Transporter Dave.

Thanks Kevin :) I have the Transporter, the Cargo and the Hawk with the Nuclear Transporter on the drawing desk (the pod versions that caused the breakaway) I was quite surprised when somebody recognised it from the short run that Space 1999 had :)

best wishes

Dave

edit: Oh dear :(


So what happens when you place an order for a laser cutter or engraving and etching machine with us?

We put an order in with the manufacture who then builds and tests your laser engraving and etching machine. Once testing is complete, it is shipped by sea. Once it arrives in the country, our customs broker handles all of the customs & duty fees that are included in your price. After customs clearance, our broker will arrange to have the laser cutter shipped directly to your door.

Drop shipped then.....

[Dan Hintz]

edit: Oh dear :(



Drop shipped then.....

Yep... which means they don't actually test them before shipping. If that's the case, I see no reason (other than simplicity) to go with them over ordering the machine directly from China (using a known good manufacturer... Shenhui, for example) and saving yourself some money in the process.

[Rodne Gold]

My opinion : according to specs and stuff I read on the site .. the legacy 700 is expensive , small and a somewhat puny model.. you can get much better for the money

[Kevin M. Adams]

Thanks again guys. Would any of you out there suggest another manufacturer or U.S. based dealer?

[Kevin M. Adams]

Anyone have any thoughts on or link to a thread about HPC?

[Rodne Gold]

What is HPC?

This thread with all the subthreads will give you all the info on cheaper chinese lasers
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?181819-Chinese-laser-purchase-Shenui-Laserworks-tips-and-tricks-thread

[Michael Hunter]

HPC is a UK company that imports and re-sells Chinese-made lasers under their own brand name.

I visited them a few years ago and found them very knowledgeable and enthusiastic about their products.
Plenty of spare parts to keep their customers going.
They also sell Chinese-made engraving plastic really cheaply.

[Dave Sheldrake]

Hi Michael,

You are only 7 miles from me :)

Kevin,

Seeing as the machine is drop shipped I'd have a few problems with that. The machine itself while very good is just being sent from China, effectively you would be paying a middleman to buy your machine for you at a considerable cost above what you could do the same yourself for.
Drop shippers are the bane of lasers, while I'm sure there are some very good companies the potential for problems is huge.....

268321

This is a 700 (HPC 6840) as it arrived from China along with two others in the same condition. A total write off in all three cases :( thankfully HPC stock machines for sale and don't use customers money to buy machines so it was their problem to fix and not a problem for any of their clients.

Have a look at HXLaser in China, their machines are very good as are Shehui and G Weike.

I've Pmm'd you with some more info :)

best wishes

Dave

[Earl Cox]

You might try Ray Scott of Rabbit lasers. He's in Ohio. He can deliver and set up the machine. I have his 40w 6040. Search for rabbit laser USA.
Earl Cox

[Dan Ashlin]

Dean at legacy is a great guy and I couldn't be happier with mine. His customer service and support is excellent.

[Barry Rimmer]

I have a Legacy Lasers 800. I could not be happier with the machine, condition it arrived in, and support. Support in particular from Dean is instantaneous by email and he is available by phone quickly as well. My whole installation story of my laser, specs, etc. is available here: http://www.k4mg.com/CNC/Legacy_Lasers_800_Assembly_Log.htm

[Dean Novakowski]

I am the owner at Legacy Laser's. Don't come on the forums much but let me clear up a few of the comments here. The warranty page you saw was an old page that I missed updating after our server went down. I had to reload all of the pages and missed a couple. Our warranty starts the day it arrives at the customers location. All of our machines carry a 2 year warranty. 3 months on lens and mirrors. 40 - 60w laser tubes are 3 months and we also include a spare laser tube. 80w and above we use reci tubes and they have a 9 month warranty. All other parts are covered for 2 years. We have been selling and supporting since 2006. Now some say they have never heard of us and that's fine,but also means you never seen anything bad about us either! I think if we were a bad company you would have seen something in the last 7 years!