First Handsaw Cleanup - Help a newbie

[Adrian Ponik]

So like many here, I have a thing for old tools. While visiting my parents a few months ago I found a 16" Disston backsaw for $10. I also recently won what I think is a D8 on Ebay for $17 shipped. I decided a few days ago to try cleaning them up. I decided to try the method recently posted using some aluminum foil and a high quality polish (Autosol in my case). After ~15 minutes of polishing with the foil, this is what I was left with.

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Top two pictures are of the etch region on the D8 and the bottom picture is the backsaw.

I'm a little disappointed in my results. They are both have a nice shine and feel smooth, but there still seems to be a lot of darker oxidation spots. Should I keep polishing with the foil? I have various grits of sand paper which I'm more than willing to try, but I don't want to go too far if it won't make much of an improvement. I've thought about electrolysis, but I know it has the potential for embrittlement. I have also thought about Evaporust, but I've read that it can make the etches unreadable which would be unfortunate on the D8. I know the saw plates will never look brand new, but I was hoping for a greater improvement that what I've achieved thus far. The two attachments below show the reflection the D8 has after polishing, the other is the backside of the backsaw that I haven't done anything to yet. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks.

-Adrian

[Bill Haumann]

Hard to tell for sure from photos how much room is left for improvement.
I like Simple Green, 400 grit wet/dry sandpaper, and a sanding block, and would work on the non-etch side first to see what results you get.
The block is especially important when going over the etch area.

[Christian Castillo]

Results using foil and polish really depend on how rusty/tarnished and stained a saw is. I wouldn't be let down with the D-8, you said it is clean, smooth and has some shine while still retaining the look of an old tool, and it only took you 15 minutes of work. For many, that is a good compromise for cleaning an old tool without trying to make it look new but having it perform well. The darker oxidation spots have most likely stained the steel and you will need to abrade away the surface of the metal til you remove the spots, or the slight pitting and recesses that the staining resides in. This is a lot more work and if the plate is already shiny enough to provide a reflection for reference, I don't think you have much to gain.

[Jim Matthews]

Christian has rehabbed loads more rusty saws than I'm likely to ever handle.

I'm with him on this one, there's only so far you can go with something that's pitted.
The 16" backsaw is hard to find, and worth getting into shape for use.

If you want to get faster results, but don't worry about the etch - basic sandpaper backed with a block works wonders.
I put a little oil on the plate, first.

If you do it dry, work outside or wear a mask.
You don't want to breathe this stuff.

[Sam Stephens]

To me, the tarnish is more like grit, dirt, oil etc and a little elbow grease, MS and 220 grit sandpaper will do the trick. Probably wouldn't spend more than about 5-10 min per side. diluted simple green would probably make quick work of it as well.

[Peter Evans]

My recent experience suggests the following steps:

0. scrape the loose, heavy rust - if any
1. W&D sandpaper longitudinally starting as low as necessary, using a block when sanding around the etch; I use WD40 - usually go to 400 grit
2. rub with the Sandflex blocks - coarse - medium - fine. This wipes out any sandpaper scratches and smooths the plate
3. rub with foil and Autosol. Brasso in a tube works almost as well. If you like superfine smoothing
4. rub just with the foil for the real shine (if you want this, I do because I can then see the reflection to ensure I am sawing on line, also rusts slower.)

You will find that the foil gets the etch about as good as it will get. Wipe with kitchen paper between each step, and each grade of paper/block.

I am about to use the last 3 steps on my planes and irons, mainly for rust - and then perhaps my chisels for the same reason. I find wiping with an oily rag not quite good enough.

[David Weaver]

Pitting is a three dimensional thing. Foil and 3 micron abrasive can only work a tiny bit in the third dimension so I would stop, based on the several dozen saws I've been through. Especially if the teeth don't have pitting that would affect their ability to have sharp geometry.

I've tried just sandpaper in various grits, just scraping and abrasive blocks, and just foil (thanks to christian's excellent discussion) but pitting will still be pitting, if it has any depth it's just best to let it go.

Peter - if you have the ability to get a hold of beeswax inexpensively (it's about $6 a pound here in the states), an excellent preventative for rust is 1/2 beeswax and 1/2 mineral oil mixed. It is soft enough to spread on very quickly in a light film and it will protect against rust in earnest and over a fairly long period of time.

Of course, an open tub of johnson's paste wax will do the same, but I'd suspect absorbing it through your skin is less healthy than the beeswax/mineral oil mix (which turns out to be a useful salve for all kinds of things, as well as a useful shop rust preventative and treatment for tool handles, turnings, etc).

[Jim Matthews]

Pitting is a three dimensional thing... but pitting will still be pitting, if it has any depth it's just best to let it go.

This is a really important point, and has lead to being more selective in adopting saws at the local rust hunting gallery.
A couple pits on a 30" 5TPI rip saw are less worrisome than a few pits on 16TPI gent's saw, where the kerf is narrow and smooth running is important.

I've got one saw that took me a couple hours to scrape, and what I found beneath wasn't salvageable as a backsaw.
I paid real money for that one, two.

Not all rust is created equal.

[Adrian Ponik]

Thanks for all the feedback everyone.

Just because I was curious, I sanded the non-etch side of the saw with 220, 400, and 800 grit sandpaper. It really doesn't look that different than the side I just did the foil and polish on. I don't really think the dark spots are very pitted, but I think they are more than likely just stained. I may try putting the backsaw in Evaporust since it has no etch, but I think I will just let the D8 be as it is.

So this leads me to the next question then, as Jim Matthews mentioned above, if more selective in the saws brought home they may clean up nicer. Looking at a saw in the local flea market/antique shop/garage sale, is there any way to really tell if there is pitting underneath it? Any tips or tricks in selecting candidates that make a good user and also clean up nicely would be appreciated. Thanks.

[Jim Matthews]

I no longer bring home backsaws that are blackened.

If I can't see bright steel, I presume there's a layer of rust built up like scale.
There's no way to know how much of it has eroded the plate.

I also reject saws with any kink or wave at the tooth line.
I've had no luck straightening ones that are bent.

It's less a worry with regular saw plates, but I want a backsaw to be straight.

That's not to say I wouldn't buy a saw just for a clean handle.
There are others with more experience, but that's my approach.

I

[Rich Harkrader]

That saw has some nice cows and calves going.