Rusty Byrd

[Gregory Stahl]

Anybody else have trouble with your Byrd cutter heads? This is about two years old, not heavily used or abused, just can't keep it from rusting. It is so bad now that every time I use the planer it is breaking inserts. When they break, they sound like coins getting tossed around in the dryer--and I cringe thinking how much it is going to cost to keep replacing them! One broken insert usually takes out about 5 or more others before it falls out the bottom. I spent $1700+ for this head, am I wrong to expect better quality?

Also, I included a picture of a Byrd in my jointer, which is located adjacent to my planer, so this is not the result of shop humidity. The Byrd head in the jointer has been in use for about 4-years, double the age of the planer. In addition, I have never used softwoods in this machine, only kiln-dried hardwoods--almost only cherry except for a recent QSWO door.

Not certain what to do at this point, planer is pretty much out of order and I hate to spend a few hundred on replacing the inserts. Almost half of them are damaged and should be replaced as I have found they are extremely weak once chipped.

Sorry--venting my frustration and sharing my experience. Thanks for listening -- Greg Stahl

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[Stephen Cherry]

Have you tried contacting byrd? It seems to me that that would be the first step.

[Myk Rian]

Have you tried contacting byrd? It seems to me that that would be the first step.
+1. Not much we can do about it.

[Rick Fisher]

Seems really weird.. Has to be a humidity problem. Wonder if you should oil the head ?

[Joe Jensen]

I can't help much, I live in AZ and it's really dry here. No rust on the jointer at 4 years and rust on the planer at 2 years suggests an issue. I would call and not email Byrd.

[Richard Coers]

Any odd chemicals stored near the planner like bleach, ammonia, vinegar, or muratic acid? I thought I read once about bad electrical grounds causing rusting issues. Something like stray voltage or electrolysis, but that needs water. Couldn't confirm on Google, but maybe run a meter from the machine to a water pipe and see if you measure something. Crazy ideas, but something is working on that head. Probably loosing torque on the bolts from corrosion and causing the breakage.

[Fred Belknap]

Strange indeed. I'm thinking electrolysis due to dissimilar metal. Did Byrd supply the screws you used.

[Jeff Duncan]

Have you tried contacting byrd? It seems to me that that would be the first step.

Can't give you any better advice than that.....first call on something like this should always be the manufacturer;)

JeffD

[Malcolm Schweizer]

It could be the moisture content of the wood you are planing as well as sawdust remaining on the cutter head absorbing moisture. The jointer being easier to clean may not have the sawdust issue.

[Paul Murphy]

Could the cutterhead have gotten wet during shipping? The screw threads look like they retained some moisture from somewhere, and so do the insert seats. Is it possible your dust extraction ductwork is draining a roof leak to your cutterhead? The jointer being clean does seem to eliminate a shop humidity problem.

[Erik Loza]

I agree with the others' comments regarding whether or not you are planing wet wood but regarding the Torx screws, I might use some anti-seize paste on the threads to ward off corrosion. Just my thoughts.

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[Gregory Stahl]

I expected many would say this was from planing wet wood or moisture from sawdust buildup, and I expected Byrd to say the same--I did call them before I posted this, and submitted the same pictures I posted here. Byrd surprised me though. Today I received an email from them apologizing for the inconvenience and that they would replace the head and inserts. I did not ask for this, just for advice and told them what was happening. I am very happy, these heads are expensive. If it all works out, I will not hesitate to buy another.

The moisture explanation makes the most logical sense, but I have taken good care of this head and of all the machines in my shop. There are no leaks or moisture in the duct work. The duct work is all contained within the shop, nothing vented outside.

I am curious what Byrd does to inhibit rust on these heads and wonder if that is what the dark coloration is from. I have noticed most of their cutters are dark and glossy. Mine was not very glossy, and I am wondering if this is why it oxidized so fast.

Electrolysis is an interesting hypothesis--yes the screws shown are the original from Byrd.

[Stephen Cherry]

Maybe next time a shot of wd40, or something like that every once in a while?

[Myk Rian]

Maybe next time a shot of wd40, or something like that every once in a while?
That would just sling WD40 all over the place, and the wood.
Sounds to me it was a bad process step, like a nitrate dip.

[Alan Schaffter]

Did you use steel wool or any chemicals to clean or remove oil from the head before you installed it? Do you often plane exotics or pressure treated wood?

[Stephen Cherry]

That would just sling WD40 all over the place, and the wood.
Sounds to me it was a bad process step, like a nitrate dip.

I just did a little reading on black oxide finishes, and it looks like black oxide as a corrosion preventative requires oil or wax. So maybe a drizzle or spray every once in a while with some oil or wax would be in order. even if it makes some mess. The question would be what oil or wax. Wd40 is silicon free, so maybe that, maybe spray machine oil, but is it silicon free, or maybe some of that spay or liquid wax (waxilit?)? In any case, I don't think that you can rely upon black oxide as a corrosion protection without oil, based on a little reading.

[Erik Loza]

Stephen, I have a lot of experience with black oxide fasteners (my hobby is more working on car engines than ww'ing) and that is absolutely correct: You must (or should...) use some type of thread lubricant or protectant on any fastener like that or it will rust or even gall in place. That's why I thought a little anti-seize paste on the threads might not be a bad idea. You would just use enough to give a thin film, to protect the threads and keep them from rusting and galling like that. It should not creep back out onto the insert knives. I've never personally tried it on a Byrd head but that is just my gut reaction to the whole thing.

Also, that head "just may rust" due to the climate. I have had some hand tools do the exact same thing, that have never been exposed to moisture at all. It can be very humid here in Central Texas during the summer and just the heating and cooling cycles of day and night, plus the still air in my garage, I think just makes high-carbon steel prone to that light orange surface rust.

No answers from me, just thoughts.

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[Jeff Duncan]

My thought is that it's just a defective head. Something wasn't done quite right in the finishing process, (whatever that consists of), and b/c of it the head is rusting. I think the evidence is in the fact that he has another Byrd head in the jointer which is several years older and has no rust....rules out environment. Presumably the same woods going into the planer have gone over the jointer....rules out the wood. Also there's a LOT of guys buying these heads for their garage and basement shops. I would think if the heads were susceptible to humid air there would be a lot more posts on it? And as far as coating the head....maybe if you applied some Top Cote or similar product when new, but I wouldn't want a head where I'd have to worry about re-coating it frequently.

I think the fact that Byrd is replacing it essentially 'no questions asked' indicates they think there's something wrong. We'll just have to wait a couple years to see what happens to the new one:rolleyes:

good luck,
JeffD

[John Vernier]

Yes, It looks to me like a manufacturing defect, considering that your other head is fine and your shop conditions are normal. I would suspect that somebody forgot a rinse / neutralization step when applying the black oxide finish to the head, and some salt residue remained to cause trouble later. I'm glad Byrd is doing the right thing by you, but they have always struck me as being good people.