Rubbing out pre-cat lacquer?

[Bill Arnold]

I've top-coated some projects with NC lacquer, then rubbed it out with pumice and rottenstone to the desired sheen. There's no issue with rubbing through a 'boundary' in this case since successive coats 'melt' into previous coats.

I'm planning to use pre-cat on a new project since it's a table that could get some heavy use. In a recent seminar, we were told that only two coats were necessary to get the desired build due to the high solids content. Should I expect any issues when doing a rub-out on this project?

Thanks in advance for your help.

[lou sansone]

hi bill

I just started using NC lacquer and it seems like the wonder finish compared to other finishes. why don't more folks use it? why have you swithed to precat ?

lou

[Jim Becker]

why don't more folks use it? (NC Lacquer)

Well...unless you have the right environment to spray it, it's dangerous to do so. IMHO, it's not a good home shop finish for that reason alone since most folks don't have the proper ventilation (explosion proof) and other safety issues covered to use that kind of finish.. Pre-cat is even worse and really shouldn't be used without a formal spray booth. You have a combination of high VOC along with dangerous chemicals with these finishes.

The only time I use NC Lacquer is occasionally some spray Deft in the can...and that only gets used outdoors in good weather. I stick to water bourne acrylics when spraying in the shop. Low- to no-VOC and no more smell than latex paint. 'Still requires a mask, but primarily for particulate protection.

[lou sansone]

I agree about the fumes... I do like the results though and will probably have to set some type of vent system up with explosion proof stuff. hey it is a good excuse to do some fun wiring


lou

[jack duren]

youll be fine. on flat surfaces i use a porter cable 505 with 320 sandpaper to knock it flat and then use #0000 steel wool with johnsons paste wax for the shine. but beware you can take a medium hand rub effect and make it gloss too much this way.

personally i spray my poly and pre-cat outside and skip all the spray booth nonsense.

there are many options in the S&W pre-cats. i was told the medium rub effect was closer to my satin S&W polyurethane varnish, but next time ill drop back to an even duller finish with a pre-cat purchase.....jack

[jack duren]

opps...missed step. i use automotive rubbing compound between the steel wool and paste wax....jack

[Bill Arnold]

... I just started using NC lacquer and it seems like the wonder finish compared to other finishes. why don't more folks use it? why have you swithed to precat ? ...I started using NC lacquer for more projects several months ago for a couple of reasons. One, it dries in minutes so there's less of a problem with 'stuff' getting in the finish; two, I can build up several layers of gloss and rub it out to the desired sheen, which also flattens the surface.

I haven't used pre-cat yet, but will use it rather than poly on my next project. I'm building a table that could be used as a game table, dining table, etc., so it needs more protection than NC would provide. Pre-cat is similar in toughness to poly but dries in minutes.

Regards,

[Jim Becker]

I started using NC lacquer for more projects several months ago for a couple of reasons. One, it dries in minutes so there's less of a problem with 'stuff' getting in the finish; two, I can build up several layers of gloss and rub it out to the desired sheen, which also flattens the surface.

You can get the exact same properties from many of the current water bourne products--without the fumes. Target Coatings USL even "burns in" 100%, for example. (Not all WB products do that)

[Bill Arnold]

Well...unless you have the right environment to spray it [NC], it's dangerous to do so. IMHO, it's not a good home shop finish for that reason alone since most folks don't have the proper ventilation (explosion proof) and other safety issues covered to use that kind of finish.. Pre-cat is even worse and really shouldn't be used without a formal spray booth. ...Since we in Florida have the luxury of great weather most of the year, we can do things that might seem problematic elsewhere. When I spray anything, it's either just inside my garage with the door all the way up or on the driveway. In either case, I have a couple of fans behind me blowing toward where I spray. That arrangement eliminates the explosion danger since fumes are dispersed immediately.

Regards,

[Bill Arnold]

youll be fine. on flat surfaces i use a porter cable 505 with 320 sandpaper to knock it flat and then use #0000 steel wool with johnsons paste wax for the shine. but beware you can take a medium hand rub effect and make it gloss too much this way.

personally i spray my poly and pre-cat outside and skip all the spray booth nonsense.

there are many options in the S&W pre-cats. i was told the medium rub effect was closer to my satin S&W polyurethane varnish, but next time ill drop back to an even duller finish with a pre-cat purchase.....jackJack,
Thanks for your input. From what I've seen demonstrated, pre-cats build a thick enough coat that rubbing out after applying two coats should work fine. It's good to get confirmation from someone who has done it.

I plan to spray clear gloss and rub it to satin. I prefer building with gloss to keep the finish as clear as possible, then create the desired sheen with rub-out. This process seems to give the finish more depth.

Regards,

[Jim Becker]

Since we in Florida have the luxury of great weather most of the year, we can do things that might seem problematic elsewhere. When I spray anything, it's either just inside my garage with the door all the way up or on the driveway. In either case, I have a couple of fans behind me blowing toward where I spray. That arrangement eliminates the explosion danger since fumes are dispersed immediately.

That's really good to hear. I know I often talk about using WB finishes and that's mostly because most people don't have the right conditions to safely spray NC lacquer or other high-VOC products. You, fortunately, have a workable solution.

[jack duren]

bill its a pretty nifty deal. this morning i sprayed both polyurethane varnish(counter top molding) and pre-cat for other various trim. already have two coats and finished with the pre-cat and have sanded the first coat of poly and could spray a second coat of poly but ill play safe and let the finish harden first.

it was recommended by a very good finish man to cut the pre-cat with about 45% with lacquer thinner(or less) and a splash of retarder.....jack

[lou sansone]

You can get the exact same properties from many of the current water bourne products--without the fumes. Target Coatings USL even "burns in" 100%, for example. (Not all WB products do that)

hi jim
I got to thinking that I could have blown my self up the way I was spraying NC in my shop...

how do you like the target stuff. Can I just spray gloss and then flatten it with steel wool and wax, or do I have to also finish the last couple of coats with one of the flatter versions of the USL? Do you clean the gun between coats ?


thanks
lou

[Jim Becker]

Lou, I really like the Target Coatings products. The only one I've used that I wasn't sold on was the water bourne shellac, although it's great for spraying. The USL (Ultimate Spray Lacquer) behaves pretty much identical to NC lacquer with 100% burn in and great workability for "finishing the finish". I usually spray satin, but have also been pleased with the gloss formula...which you should be able to work to the desired sheen after it fully cures just like NC. Try a gallon...or a quart if you feel better. And Jeff Weiss is a pleasure to do business with, too.

[jack duren]

ok youve got one on me what is "burn in"....jack

[Jim Becker]

ok youve got one on me what is "burn in"....

"Burn In" is a property of evaporative finishes such as Lacquer and Shellac where each subsequent coat of the finish disolves into and becomes one with the previous applications. You essentially get one layer of the finish by the time you are done. This is unlike reactive finishes, such as varnish, where each subsequent coat is separate and distinctive in layers.

[jack duren]

ok... most , well all the painters call that "reactivating" that i know....jack

[lou sansone]

hi jim

thanks for the help. I will probably order a couple of quarts of each type and give it a try.

lou