Rust Finishing Hardware

[Stanley Covington]

I need to rust finish some steel cabinet hardware and a hammer head, but I can't get my hands on Nitric Acid, or any acid stronger than vinegar, here in Japan.

I had thought about bumming some battery acid from a car mechanic..... but not sure it would produce the same results as Nitric Acid.

Any suggestions for alternate chemicals or methods?

Thanks,

Stan

[Dave Beauchesne]

Stanley: Not that I have done any rust finishing, but salt?? Just a thought and good luck !

[Mike Holbrook]

Highland Woodworking sells a wax/coating that I have used for years on metal surfaces, protects & lubricates:

"Renaissance Wax was originally developed in association with the British Museum for restoration and protection of art treasures, and is a superb micro-crystalline polish ideal for use in the shop. Renaissance Wax is our all-time favorite coating for reducing friction, preventing rust and corrosion, and putting a shine on anything that needs it."

It is expensive but it only takes a very small amount. A can can coat countless tools.

[Chris Vandiver]

Saline solution soaked rags wrapped around whatever you want to have a rust finish works but it takes a long time. The solution should be fairly strong and the rags refreshed as needed. An acid wash would be much quicker. Maybe muriatic acid would work?

[Stuart Tierney]

Decent drug store. Citric acid and acetic acid (not glacial, but more punch than vinegar) are on the shelf at at least 2 drug store chains around here, and having needed to visit a drug store in Kyoto (calamine lotion.) I'd expect they'll have something. Just ask the actual pharmacist, if the store has one. Look for a decent sized store not in the city centre.

That'll clean the steel free of contaminants and rust, and allow an even rust coating to form as it works kind of like an etch primer. To create the rust, leave it to rust by itself or spray a saline solution/brine on the steel. Any additional oxidizing material (peroxide, also at the drug store) might help.

All the other stuff is difficult to find. I've looked. Hard.

After that, I don't know how you'll stabilise the rust so it doesn't go any further, that's your call.

Stu.

[Tony Joyce]

RE: Nitric Acid
Do a search on eBay. There are several listings for it. If you need a link PM me & I'll send one.

Tony

[Phil Thien]

You want rust? Copper sulfate. You can find it in tree root killer (the stuff that is poured down sewer lines to kill invading tree roots).

That will give you red rust. Boil the piece with red rust (in water) and you will convert the red rust to black oxide.

[george wilson]

Tony,you might get in trouble mailing nitric acid. Very likely listed as hazardous material,requiring a big jump in the cost of mailing.

[jim goddard]

Are you looking for a finish similar/identical to barrel (as in gun) browning? If so those are off the shelf. In particular Birchwood Casey has a premixed product called Plum Brown Barrel FInish. I suspect there are other brands similar as well.

[Tony Joyce]

George,
Actually some list free shipping. I bought some(I'm not a seller) and got it no problem. There is a listing on eBay now for 24oz. 70% Lab grade for $59.95 free shipping. Feedback 100% from 119 buyers. Ships from WV. I assume the shipper is responsible for correct labeling and they state labeling and packaging meets state and federal requirements.

BTW, I do agree it is a hazardous material and should be handled as such, especially at 70% solution.


Tony,you might get in trouble mailing nitric acid. Very likely listed as hazardous material,requiring a big jump in the cost of mailing.

[David Weaver]

Might be a little tougher for stan in japan.

Stan - I guess going to a "gun store" there and looking at their metal treatment products is probably not going to work ? :)

Did the mosaku ever settle down, or have you been too busy to tend to it?

[Richard Kee]

Can you buy a toilet bowl cleaner called "The Works" in Japan? I've been using it for several years now to remove rust from old tools. It removes the rust very effectively, but if you don't rinse the chemical off the old tool, it'll rust again - quickly and somewhat evenly.

If you want to have an item to rust, throw your item in some for about half an hour, don't rinse it off, then let it sit out for about another hour - you'll have a well-aged and somewhat rusty look to the metal.

Richard

[Don McManus]

You might try a food/ restaurant supply place. I've bought citric acid powder for "preserving food" in 5 lb bags from amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Spicy-World-Citric-Acid-5-Pound/dp/B000OZFECU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1375922980&sr=8-1&keywords=citric+acis)

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

As an outsider who's totally lost in this conversation; have you got a picture of what you're looking to make? Not that it will help in your quest at all, but I'm just curious. A quick google search just turns up this thread and some Amerock hardware, which I'm not sure is what you're going for.

[Stanley Covington]

Highland Woodworking sells a wax/coating that I have used for years on metal surfaces, protects & lubricates:

"Renaissance Wax was originally developed in association with the British Museum for restoration and protection of art treasures, and is a superb micro-crystalline polish ideal for use in the shop. Renaissance Wax is our all-time favorite coating for reducing friction, preventing rust and corrosion, and putting a shine on anything that needs it."

It is expensive but it only takes a very small amount. A can can coat countless tools.

Mike:

Thanks for the response, but I do not want to protect from rust, I want to actively promote it in a very controlled manner to create an attractive and tough finish.

Stan

[Stanley Covington]

Chris:

Thanks. I will give it a try on a test piece. I can't get muriatic acid here in Japan. I can't even buy lye for my sharpening stones.

Stan

[Stanley Covington]

Stanley: Not that I have done any rust finishing, but salt?? Just a thought and good luck !

Dave:

Thanks.

Stan

[Stanley Covington]

Ntiric acid cannot be shipped internationally by mail or common carriers that use aircraft. And even if I shipped it by slow boat, it would get grabbed at customs and the cops would pay me an unpleasant visit. Japanese cops are not pleasant when excited, and are much less constrained than US authorities are on US soil.

Nitric acid, as you know, is very useful for making stuff that goes boom.

Stan

[Stanley Covington]

Jim:

Gun browning is exactly the process I am trying to accomplish, but the only formula I have ever used involves nitric acid, ergo the question.

I hadn't thought of BC's Plum finish. Know of anyplace that will mail internationally? I will check with Brownells.

Thanks,

Stan

[Stanley Covington]

Stuart:

Thanks.

Stan

[Chris Griggs]

... the cops would pay me an unpleasant visit. Japanese cops are not pleasant when excited, and are much less constrained than US authorities...


Plus they all know Judo. And take it from one who knows, you DO NOT want to get nailed with an overzealous, slightly misplaced Uchi Mata :) . It HURTS, A LOT!

(at most 3 people on this forum will get that reference)

[Stanley Covington]

Might be a little tougher for stan in japan.

Stan - I guess going to a "gun store" there and looking at their metal treatment products is probably not going to work ? :)

Did the mosaku ever settle down, or have you been too busy to tend to it?

There is a gunstore nearby in Shibuya, but they did not have any gunblue solution. They did have Birchwood Caseys stock finishin products, though.

The Mosaku did settle down and is performing nicely without chipping. They angle is still a bit high though. I will let you know how it performs after I work it back down to 30 degrees.

Stan

[Stanley Covington]

Assuming that "Works" is a US product, I don't think I can buy it here. Besides, all the household chemicals sold in Japan nowadays are very very weak, even dishwashing soap. I think this is at the direction of the Japanese government trying to prevent another incident like the poison gas on the Tokyo subways.

I did bring some toilet bowl cleaner from Guam (don't tell my moving company) which I will test on something. What is the active chemical?

[Richard Kee]

Stan,

Check out a post on Chris Schwartz blog for more info on "The Works".

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/chris-schwarz-blog/remove-rust-zinc-and-black-oxide-with-the-works

Richard

[Stanley Covington]

As an outsider who's totally lost in this conversation; have you got a picture of what you're looking to make? Not that it will help in your quest at all, but I'm just curious. A quick google search just turns up this thread and some Amerock hardware, which I'm not sure is what you're going for.

Joshua:

I'm making a couple of tansu for my daughters-in-law for Christmas, and bought some excellent subtle handmade hardware similar to the picture below. Nishkawa shoten here in Tokyo still has some handmade stuff of excellent quality. In past years, I have ordered custom-made hardware from them, but as of my last visit, that is no longer possible since the craftsmen have all retired or passed on. http://www.nishikawa-shouten.com/

Anyway, while well made, it is finished with a black paint, which looks nice, but is not the nice rust-brown I wanted. I have finished a lot of gun parts with rust and rust-black finish in the past, and wanted to do the same for this tansu hardwarwe, but can't get my hands on the nitric acid I am accustomed to using. Also, I wanted to try rust-browning a special hammer head. I hope this clarifies.

Stan
http://www.nishikawa-shouten.com/series/mingei/img/item/19-1.jpg

[Stanley Covington]

Hmmmm. Interesting.

Thanks,

Stan

[Stanley Covington]

You want rust? Copper sulfate. You can find it in tree root killer (the stuff that is poured down sewer lines to kill invading tree roots).

That will give you red rust. Boil the piece with red rust (in water) and you will convert the red rust to black oxide.

Tree root killer? I will go to the garden store and see what they have (Kaimz).

Stan

[Jim Koepke]

I have finished a lot of gun parts with rust and rust-black finish in the past, and wanted to do the same for this tansu hardware

Can you get gun browning solution in Japan? Maybe from a metal working shop?

jtk

[Stanley Covington]

I am almost certain that there are no commercially available gun browning solutions in Japan since there are very very few gunsmiths, and the hobbyist market is absolutely zero.

There are those that work metal of course, but they probably make their own solution since a business can procure nitric acid and other strong chemicals with the right permits.

Stan

[Jim Koepke]

I am almost certain that there are no commercially available gun browning solutions in Japan since there are very very few gunsmiths, and the hobbyist market is absolutely zero.

That was kind of my thought since there are fairly strict gun laws there.

Just thought I would ask incase there was some other use for the solutions.

jtk

[jim goddard]

If you cant get it thru your local gun store there I suppose you could order from Brownells, Midway or similar. I think its the best of all worlds b/c its formulated specifically for what youre doing. Any of these solutions should come w/ exact instructions for use so there arent any unhappy surprises later.


Jim:

Gun browning is exactly the process I am trying to accomplish, but the only formula I have ever used involves nitric acid, ergo the question.

I hadn't thought of BC's Plum finish. Know of anyplace that will mail internationally? I will check with Brownells.

Thanks,

Stan