barn wood find, work in progress

[steven c newman]

found a piece in the pile of barn wood scraps I have on the bench. About the right size for a Jack plane trans. So, now I am looking over some tote choices267943267944and trying to decide which way I want to go with this. Once that is figured out ( using my single over-worked brain cell) I can start chopping out for the iron works. Just something to work on while the cable system is cut-off. Getting a new account...


Maybe keep a look out for an ols 15" trans to use the ironworks from, or just use a wooden wedge?

[george wilson]

You aren't going to put the upside down tote on it are you? I'd repair the tote on the correct handle seen in the 1st. picture (or make a new one). There is nothing on the handle to inlet into the body,unless you try to screw it down with a LONG screw down the body of the handle and at the toe,like a Stanley. You could glue on an extra 3/4" to inlet into the body. The barn wood is beech. Do you have any that doesn't have those white worm trails in it? Maybe some from farther off the ground,if it was from a vertical plank? Beech is the correct wood,but it is NOT known for its durability from the elements.A beech log had better not be left laying for long on the ground.

[steven c newman]

both totes are mock-ups, at the moment. Powder post tracks are just at the surface. They are also just on the one side. Could just skinny the blank down to a narrower size, about the same as a #5-1/4 Junior jack plane. Tote is from a repaired #31, as I had a better looking one for it267945267946 this one is 24" long, says something about that strange saw, don't it now...

[David Weaver]

It says the saw was cut down from what I can tell. Can't remember if that was a project posted on here earlier? It is a good way to get around buying big $$ backsaws as big as miter box saws where it's quickly obvious that they're too big for much cabinet work.

[steven c newman]

Currently watching two 15" long trans planes on the bay. Both need a new wood sole ( might have one?) and the totes aren't too hateful. Find out in a few days on what they sell for....

george: Spent quite a while down in the shop, grinding, sanding, carving, and more sanding. Now have decent tote made for whatever type of plane I will make from that blank. Once that is known, I can go back and drill for the mounting hardware...

[David Weaver]

If they need anything at all, hopefully they are less than the cost of shipping and free shipping is offered. Otherwise they are junk. Keep your eyes peeled for the ones that look like the transitional we saw on here yesterday with the nice decal, etc.

[steven c newman]

or maybe one like this one?268044268048 The two I am watching, if I were to buy both would still be less the the $30 +tax at the local antique mall just up the hill wants for a painted #26 stanley jack..

the Stanley #31 in the pictures is actually a very nice jointer, iron is the same width as a #7, but the length is a #8's. Maybe a weekend's Saturday afternoon of rehab...

[David Weaver]

Yeah, I wouldn't pay $5 for a painted jack transitional plane. I see them at antique malls all the time for more money than they'd ever sell for, but that doesn't mean that something less expensive is anything but a waste of time.

...just like I wouldn't pay $12 (shipping cost) for a transitional that had any broken parts, because the threat is you'll spend hours coming up with a refurbished plane that's maybe worth the cost of shipping plus five bucks.

Now, if you find a cherry one with decals and all for $20 at an antique mall with very little wear, that's different, but I can't ever get settled with their fastening system for the handles. Not a fan of that kind of setup if the work isn't light work.

[Chris Griggs]

For reference Steven. I got a very very nice, no. 26 off ebay just a few months ago that in addition to being in decent condition had already been cleaned up and refinished by someone else (in a way that I would have never bother to do myself). Cost me $15 + $10 shipping. Not a steal considering the shipping cost, but about as good as you'll get on the bay. It required ZERO work other than getting the blade and CB up and running, was absolutely pristine(sorry no pics on me at the moment). Its definitively worth spending a few weeks waiting for something that gives you a good value not just low price (says that guy who just snagged a lovely MF no. 8 for $15 (290953028092) and a lovely MF no. 9 for $10 (221261182882) ...total cost for both with shipping ~ $45)

[I already privately gloated to Dave but I couldn't resist an impromptu stealth gloat]

[steven c newman]

One of the two I am watching is less then $10, counting shipping. The other is about $15 with shipping. As for the one I refurbbed back up, it was $15, and I could have walked home with it very easily...

Most of the M-F planes I have bought run about $16 to my doorstep. They do clean up nicely though..

I think most of the naysayers seem to think a plane must have a lot of weight to even work, could be, until you spend a day pushing that heavy paperweight around. BTDT. " A wood sole will just wear away" Maybe, but some of the iron bodies I have rehabbed were worn quite a bit too. "handles are attached strangely, can't use them" Really? most are fastened down the same way as an iron Bailey plane was. About the only knock on those trans planes is the frog adjustment. On a jointer plane, it does not need a tight mouth.

[David Weaver]

I don't see the naysayers you're talking about. The limits in the transitional planes aren't in the wood and weight, they're in the metallic parts to wood (and the handle to the body). There are plenty of light planes made out of wood that work perfectly fine and last nearly indefinitely.

Strangely wasn't the word, poorly or weakly was the word. They were an inexpensive plane that stanley offered.

The planes all have double irons. None of them ever need a tight mouth. It is mission impossible to adjust a frog forward on a plane where the support ends between one and two inches from the sole if the frog is moved forward. There's nothing wrong with them as a collector's item and there's nothing wrong with a cherry example or two found cheap to use. But to buy junk is spending money to waste time.

What people are attempting to impress is not wasting your time on low value-density junk (stuff that takes a lot of time and space and is near valueless). If you think you know more about using planes than a huge group of straw people that seem to be made up on opportunity to strawman an argument that isn't reality, then carry on, you're not going to take any advice, anyway.

[steven c newman]

OK, Ok, one camp loves all things bronzes, I happen to like mine in iron. Just thought this might be a way to learn about making a plane on my own, using things my tiny budget allows . Now, NOT looking at why one type of body is better for a plane. Stanley and a Mr. L. Bailey figured that out a long time ago.

Looking a ways to cut the bed for the iron in a solid chunk of beech. Looking at the angles needed, in case it turns into a wedged iron type of plane. Looking at how big to make the mouth on a jack plane sized plane.

Just something new to try, after rehabbing over 100 metal planes and a few of the large trans. Maybe I might like a plane I made for me. Not asking anyone to switch to something non-bronze. Wood bodied planes were used since, what, the Romans used them? Low value junk? To some, it might be, they do not have to buy any. Maybe make a plane I could pass along to the next generation? Maybe, since it was handmade by me. If your Grandpa had made a plane, would you turn your nose up at it as being "low value density junk"? Near valueless? Last trans I refurb I paid $1 for a Stanley #33. Sold it within a month for $30 plus they paid the $30 for shipping.

Now then, maybe we can get back to how to build a wood bodied plane, by someone who has never built one before?

[george wilson]

Yabbut,the Romans also used bronze planes with wood stuffing. The bronze part is what survives in the ground. Actually,I prefer iron to the bronze LN planes.

[steven c newman]

yahbut, I guess I could look for those answers on some other site? Not much help here......

[David Weaver]

My grandpa didn't have planes, but someone else did give their grandpa's to me. Sadly, they were mostly junk and the only thing I have left of the whole batch is a transitional with handle broken off at the end and in the middle. Strange coincidence.

If you want to learn to build planes, then build planes. Cheap cast body planes and cheap transitionals aren't going to teach you anything about building planes, and the irons from them are going to be inappropriate for most planes you'd build.

What you should be doing if you want to build planes is finding good double iron sets and good tapered single irons from old wooden planes when you're in the shops.

The things you'll have to learn to build a wooden plane if you going to chop a mortise are basically how to lay it out. If it's not laid out correctly, the plane won't work. If it is laid out correctly, it can be done somewhat coarsely in some parts and still work well.

But using transitionals and second line cast planes is a waste of your time and money, and it's keep you from building planes and learning about building planes. You need to move on to beech planes or krenov types, the latter of which is far more popular because it's easier to build I guess (i've never built a laminated plane, but like many on here I took shots at several one-piece planes as well as infills).

The stanley plane design is as close to perfect as I've ever seen for mass produced planes to be used in a variety of scenarios, but you don't have the means to mass produce so those designs are just holding you up. Go to the planes that were made by hand - the woodies, and if you chance across a good one for little coin, the infills.

[george wilson]

I have posted pictures of wooden planes here,but if you want to go elsewhere,it's up to you. I'm not sure if you want to build a transitional or not. It would be hard to build one of those unless you could make the cast iron parts. I'd go for a plain wooden plane. No metal parts except the blade. And,with a little knowledge of heat treating and a weed burner,you can make the blade,too. A weed burner easily puts out plenty of heat to get the whole iron hot enough to harden it .

[steven c newman]

From the looks of it, LumberJocks has a "hand made plane swap" starting up. Looks like the place to ask these questions? Might there even be a thread on how to make a plane?

The is a Coffin smoother just up the road, nice thick iron, and chipbreaker. A little high priced at $ 17, though. Maker looks like Butcher on the iron.

As for the "Grandpa" thing, some of us did get a plane or two for a relative. One of mine gave me a Union #3, type 2. just needed a refurb......

Another was a wood bodied jack that used a wedge, had no ironworks other than the iron and chip breaker. Fussy thing to adjust....

"Great encouragement for anyone that may want to build a plane from scratch" Go back and read your replies, and see if any fit that quote........

[David Weaver]

You can either do it or not do it. Nobody who has scratch made planes is going to mislead you out of courtesy to make you think that refurbishing production planes is anything like building a good plane from scratch, one that will perform with a production plane and one that you want to keep when you're done out of more than sentimentality. I wouldn't have. I would've guessed your goal was accumulation of hobbled planes, and I don't say that to be rude - that's what it looks like you're doing. There was a member on woodnet when I was on there who had an unending appetite to find orphans and bring them back to functionality, but not necessarily restore them (restore as in like they were when they were new)

I couldn't imagine a single person on here would've guessed scratch building planes was your goal because you'd be doing it if you wanted to.

$17 for a coffin smoother that's from a decent maker and with a good butcher double iron is worth the price of admission. If it is a shop made smoother where a good iron was just put in it, or if it s a smoother that is beat to death, full of bug damage and is something that wouldn't function that well, then it's not. Double iron coffin planes are a bit of a trick to make so that they can be used properly and feed well at the same time. Making a good single iron plane that is tight, works well, feeds well and adjusts well is no bargain either.

What you need if you're serious about building them is:
* wood - something like the plane would be made of, cutting them out of douglas fir blanks will just have you wasting your first attempt with real wood. Needs to be straight, dry and with some extra thickness on all sides.
* either something tasteful to copy (like an older coffin smoother with nice proportions) or pictures and an idea of how you're going to lay everything out so that you can do neat work and have a good working plane. Laying out and marking is absolutely critical.
* an abutment saw (which you can probably make out of some handsaw scraps), appropriately made chisels (something with some reach and that is sharp, as well as a narrow chisel to work between the bed and the abutments), and some way of cleaning things up that you don't want to use chisels on. That may be nothing, or it may be a house made scraper.

as far as encouraging people, I've probably got more posts on here in the last 6 years saying "people should make their own planes" than anyone else. Maybe not recently because I haven't been building planes. But it has to be done properly or you have a waste of time and money, and a plane that is a chore to use.

If you want to do it properly, you're pretty much in the best area for american beech in the united states, at least as far as I know. There are a lot of people in ohio burning enormous beech trees because the lumber has little market value on the stump.

[Tony Shea]

Steven, there is really no need to go elsewhere if your goal is to make a useable plane. You have some of the most talented people I have ever been part of right here in one place. All they are trying to do is keep you from wasting your money and time. I understand you enjoy bringing iffy mass produced planes back to life but it sounds as though you are at the point that you want to finally try your hand at making something useful that may actually be worth the time you put into it. As Dave and others said instead of spending a few bucks here and there on planes that will never be worth anything no matter what you do with them, save the $ and buy either suitable wood to work with and/or decent hardware (iron/chipbreaker) to build around. All I have seen so far is people trying to give you good advice on what to buy/make and what not to. Keep an open mind and try to take in some of the constructive criticism instead of defending your original plan. I certainly never come up with a full proof plan from the get go without having to change around just about every aspect of my original project, just is part of the craft. Experience will eventually cut down on my mistakes and help me devise designs that are close to their original plans.

[steven c newman]

MIGHT have a decent thick ironand chipbreaker coming ( old, split Coffin smoother, butcher iron) and the wedge even looks good. Just a simple small jack plane is on the drawing board, for now. So far, zero cash spent. Time? Hey, it is a Hobby to me, and I enjoy working on old planes. If i can't getone to work the way i want it to, it goes in the "Fire sale" pile, where I can sell three or four "good" planes at a time, just tobuy maybe one good plane.

[David Weaver]

Sounds like a good start. Butcher hardware is good stuff.