Please Tell Me The Secret Of Scrapers!

[Derek Arita]

First time I tried using scrapers, I purchased the scraper and burnisher. I thought I followed all the instructions. When it came time to try it out, nothing but a little dust. No matter what I did, nothing but dust. So I put it all away. Now, years later, I went to dig it all out and give it another try, but I discovered that I lost the scrapers.
I went online a purchased a Two Cherries scraper and a Bahco scraper. I went on Youtube and watched several videos showing how to prepare the scraper. Again, i thought I followed all the instructions, but guess what happened...nothing but dust...oh, and a few shavings. My hands finally gave out trying to get the scraper to work, so I put it all away again.
What's the secret? What am I not doing right? Why do my hands give out so quickly when I use the scraper?

[Jeff Duncan]

Hard to say what your doing wrong without being able to see what your doing. I can tell you if you can't feel a slight burr on the edge you've done it wrong....so don't even bother trying you'll just get dust. Other than that I'd give it a little more practice, once you get it right it's a very handy tool to have at one's disposal;)

Oh and also you may want to hit up the neanderthal forum as those guys love hand tools!

JeffD

[Prashun Patel]

I suggest you try going straight from the file to the wood. Dont burnish to start. The filed edge will produce a sharp enough surface to draw shavings. It wont produce a finish level cut, but it will give ou a starting point. From there you can work on the honing and or burnishing. Hang in there and keep praciticing.

[John TenEyck]

There was a really excellent article in FWW a few issues back about a nearly fool proof method of preparing a scraper. I can confirm the author's method works very easily and very well. It's really worth learning how to sharpen a scraper because it can do some things that are very hard to accomplish as easily any other way.

John

[Larry Frank]

I tried burnishing the scraper by hand and it worked OK. I then got the Veritas variable burnisher and it works great. Just have to file an edge flat and then use the variable burnisher. You can feel the burr left on the edge and it will take a nice thin shaving.

As a newbie to this, I found that I needed to find the right angle to hold the scraper. Once I found that, I was doing fine.

[Alan Schwabacher]

What kind of wood are you scraping? Hardwood is much easier than softwood, and some softer wood just does not scrape well.

The angle of the scraper to the work makes a big difference to the way it behaves and how quickly it dulls. Start with the card almost perpendicular to the surface and leaning forward just a bit. Scrape without pushing down too hard. Lean the card forward gradually to take a more agressive cut.

[Frederick Skelly]

Derek, learning to sharpen and use scrapers is hard. Its not uncommon for someone to just give up and throw the scraper in a drawer. It nearly happened to me last year. Hang with it man. Scrapers are good, useful tools once you get the hang. It just takes some effort.

FWIW, heres what I did:
I bought an inexpensive holder for under $20 at woodcraft. Greatly reduced hand fatigue.

I read and tried about 8 ways to sharpen and burnish until I found one that worked for me. You can get ideas by searching on "sharpening scrapers" in the archives. Personally, I settled on the method in FWW that Mr. TenEyck mentioned. (You'll find that method is very similar to the one in Garrett Hack's book. YMMV, of course.)

FYI, I tried the jig/burnishing tool that woodcraft sells but returned it. It didnt work for me. Might for others. But if I hadnt finally found the FWW method, Id be sorely tempted to try that Veritas Mr Frank mentioned. I havent seen one of their tools yet that wasnt worth the money.

Fred

[Jason Beam]

Derek,

Since you're not too far from me - i'd be happy to have you come by and I can show you how I get whispy curly shavings with my scrapers. It's hard to describe the feel it takes ... the forward lean, the amount of bend to flex it ... all that and also what's a "good" burr feel like ... very hard to type that out ... or even video it ... but if you see one in action, that works, in front of your eyes, you'll no-doubt find the groove. Let me know if you'd like to swing by some evening or weekend :)

[Derek Arita]

Thanks all for the replies. I'm going to try and look for that FWW article. Meantime, Jason, I may take you up on that offer. I think seeing an edge prepared and seeing one used, may be what I need. Thanks again. Jason, I'll PM you.

[Lee Schierer]

There was a really excellent article in FWW a few issues back about a nearly fool proof method of preparing a scraper. I can confirm the author's method works very easily and very well. It's really worth learning how to sharpen a scraper because it can do some things that are very hard to accomplish as easily any other way.

John

I don't know about the article, but here is a really nice video by Fine Woodworking that shows how to sharpen and use a scraper (http://www.finewoodworking.com/tool-guide/video/how-to-sharpen-a-card-scraper.aspx).

[Jim Matthews]

Doug Chart (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKZWqdPFul8) has an excellent video on YouTube.

It illustrates a method which is simple, and repeatable.
I've been fiddling with them for three years and find them impossible to fathom.

I use something simpler, these days:

The Stanley #80 and variants.
Alan at AskWoodman has a decent video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKZWqdPFul8) demonstrating a well-set up example on white oak.

I can see the utility of a card scraper in a hollow (like a spoon or bowl), perhaps on really difficult grain from shop veneer,
but after three years struggling with them, I wonder why nobody mentioned the #80 to me sooner.

Veritas makes a good one, with a sharp blade included.

[Michael Dedon]

Derek, I won't attempt to teach you how to sharpen a scraper but the most prevalent issue I see when people have problems is forgetting to get the old burr off before starting to sharpen again. Even if you think it never had a burr there was probably a rolled edge, however small, that will prevent a new burr from being properly created. Just lay the scraper flat on a file and rub it five or six times on each side before starting the sharpening process from step 1. Try that.

[John TenEyck]

The FWW article is in issue #227 by Michael Pekovich.

John

[Mike Cutler]

Derek

It just takes a little patience. I always used to over do the edge, and basically "undo" the edge trying to get it perfect.
My epiphany came when I found a piece of stainless that had been cut with a hydraulic shear, and left a beautiful rolled, sharp, edge, on one side. That one edge was better than anything I ever achieved. I just "do it" now.
Don't go for the perfect edge, just get an edge to start with.

[paul cottingham]

The veritas #80 is a fantastic tool. After I found it, I even sold my scraper plane. And it sure beats making your thumbs combust with a card scraper.

[Roy Harding]

Those above have more than covered what I could say about sharpening/burnishing scrapers.

I've been using them for years - but a few years ago I began to get a bit of arthritis, which caused pain in my hands when using a scraper. I bought one of these (http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=32669&cat=1,310) and haven't looked back.

[Stephen Cherry]

Derek, one of the problems with woodworking is that we are all a bunch of hermits, working on our own. My guess is that if you had someone show you how to use a scraper, you would pick it up in about 15 minutes. It's just like sharpening planes and chisels. I read about people having problems with sharpening, but in my mind it is the simplest thing in the world to get something pretty sharp enough. (didn't take me a few minutes to learn this)

One thing I would suggest is to find someone to show you how to use a scraper. If you are anywhere near one of the Lie Neison shows, they will have people there that could take you through the whole process. I've been to a few of these shows, and they had a whole group of people there ready to demonstrate and answer questions. They sell scrapers also, and theirs are usable right out of the box.

[Derek Arita]

The veritas #80 is a fantastic tool. After I found it, I even sold my scraper plane. And it sure beats making your thumbs combust with a card scraper.

I'm very interested. Is this basically a mounted scraper, with the blade having to be sharpened like a card scraper? If not, then how is the blade resharpened? How long does it last?

[David Weaver]

If you're not finding a consistent burr, make sure that:
1) the edge of your scraper before you roll a burr is clean, square and honed. If that requires making a small jig so that you can work the bottom edge on a stone vertically, so be it
2) make sure you give proper attention to laying the scraper flat on a surface that supports it all the way to the edge and drawing the edge out with some force. The more you draw out, the easier it will be to roll the edge.

There is often talk about how hard or not hard or perpendicular and 5% or 10% and all of that stuff about how to roll the final burr, but you must actually draw something out to roll if you want the rolling to be easy and consistent. Drawing out is done with significant force, rolling the burr then with the burnisher will be fairly easy and with a fairly minimal amount of force in comparison.

And, to the point of #1, if you don't get a good clean burr free and square and crisp edge to draw out, then you're not going to be able to draw something out far enough to actually get it with the burnisher. Think of the geometry if the bottom edge has a bit of convexity to it, it takes little of that to make it so that you couldn't draw the scraper enough to get the drawn metal out far enough to roll it over.

[glenn bradley]

The two points that made my scraper quality jump were:

- Using a block of hardwood to keep the scraper perpendicular while stoning.
--- Shown here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nz6EpQu2HRo)although I do not follow this entire regiment.
- Not over doing it on rolling the burr.
--- Like David, I draw the edge out to prepare to roll the burr and do this on a block of hardwood that allows me to smoothly perform the draw stroke in one or two full passes with the scraper's edge fully supported.

Once the edge is prepared, one or two swipes of the burnisher is all it takes to roll the burr. More than that and you probably want to start over ;-)

If you are nearby, I have no problem dropping by with my stuff and showing you how I do it. PM me with your location if you are near the Southern California Inland Empire.

[Mel Fulks]

Some of the things sold as burnishers are too soft and absolutely worthless .It seems everyone who has used that Veritas burnish gizmo has had good luck with it. Like some others ,I have never had any success with that side draw out step,so I stopped using it. Since I only scrape hard woods its never been a problem. I've got a pile of scrapers ,if one is giving me trouble ,I just pick up another one. The increased width of the edge after burnishing can be seen and will hang on a finger nail.

[Jason Beam]

I'm very interested. Is this basically a mounted scraper, with the blade having to be sharpened like a card scraper? If not, then how is the blade resharpened? How long does it last?

I've got one of these, too - yeah, it's a scraper in a handle - looks a lot like a spokeshave. I also have a #112 that I haven't used yet - pretty cool. It's still sharpened like a scraper.

[Howard Acheson]

Here is the way I was taught years ago and used to teach to my woodworking students. The students were almost always able to produce a proper edge on the first try.

The first step is to put the scraper in a vise and using a fine file, file the edge perfectly perpendicular to the sides. Only a couple of strokes should be necessary and this is normally only done on a brand new scraper or one in bad shape. Next, using a fine oil stone, hold the scraper flat on the stone and remove any burr and smooth the sides near the edge. Holding the scraper straight up on edge (90 degrees to the stone), hone the edge and then lightly remove the burr. There is a tendency for scrapers to dig into a soft waterstone so I use an inexpensive fine oil stone. 400 Wet & Dry sandpaper lubricated with light oil or WD40 would work fine.

Burnishing is the next step. After filing and being sure the edge is flat and 90 degrees to the sides, put the scraper flat down on, and slightly back (1/4") from the edge of your bench. Run your burnisher along the flat side of the scraper pressing it so the burnisher is tight at the edge. This starts causing the edge corner to extend. This is a step that burnisher jigs can not do. Now put the scraper in your vise extending up about an inch. With your burnisher, run it along the edge at 90 degrees from the sides. Take 2 or three not too heavy strokes. This causes the corner raised in the first step to be bent toward the sides of the scraper. Then tip your burnisher up slightly (10-15 degrees--really makes no difference) and take two continuous, firm strokes on each edge. That's it.

You will have to try scraping at various angles to find the "sweet spot." As the scraper becomes dull, go through the same three burnishing steps as above. You can burnish 10-20 times before stoning or filing is again required. It takes less time than changing sandpaper in a sander.

I greatly favor a real burnisher for two reasons. First, it is really hard metal. Second, it it highly polished. Both of these attributes mean that there is little chance of galling (or tearing metal from) the scraper edge. Galling makes for less than a smooth cut. The smoother the burnisher, the smoother the burr. Screwdriver shafts may or may not be hard enough and the chrome plating will eventually deteriorate. Drill bits are also variable in hardness. Using a valve stem from a car engine that has been highly polished is an alternative but, why not just get a burnisher?

Finally, you can control the aggressiveness of the scraper by the way you file/stone it and how you use the burnisher to make the burr. Stoneing with a fine stone after filing and then using lighter pressure on your burnisher will give you a less aggressive but finer cutting burr and a smoother finish. I have a thicker scraper that I sharpen to an aggressive cutting burr that I use for initial work (ie: ripple removal after jointing/planing) and then a set of thinner scrapers that I put a finer edge on for finish smoothing and cutting down and smoothing varnish finishes.

Finally, to prevent frustration, scrapers work best on hard woods. Using them on pine and other soft woods is generally unsuccessful.

For an excellent description with pictures get Bob Flexner's "Understanding Wood Finishing."

[paul cottingham]

I'm very interested. Is this basically a mounted scraper, with the blade having to be sharpened like a card scraper? If not, then how is the blade resharpened? How long does it last?
Of late, I sharpen it like a regular blade ( use an eclipse guide) then put a gentle hook on it with a good burnisher. I set a slight camber with the thumbscrew, and I'm in business. I control the aggressiveness with the thumbscrew.
NB. I am a hack at best. I am sure others here have better more effective ways of preparing the blades of a #80 scraper! But this works well for me.

[Derek Arita]

OK...So I decided to give it one more try, using Howard's technique, with a few minor mods, like using diamond stones. Got it all done and tried it on my test piece of wood...dust again! Then I remembered what you said about scrapers not working well on pine. I broke out a scrap of oak and gave it another try...success! Why didn't I try this earlier! Anyhow, I'm sure they are not really good shavings, but at least it's progress. This time, I could really feel the edge bite into the oak.
I've learned a lot about scrapers here and I thank you all for the help. Here's a pic...
http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/5839/dl3p.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/21/dl3p.jpg/)

[Lee Schierer]

Looks pretty good from where I sit. Try some cherry for nice fluffy shavings.

[Frederick Skelly]

Good for you Derek. You sure got there faster than I did!

[Derek Arita]

I have to say, I took the same edge over to the pine scrap I was using and darned if I couldn't get anything but dust from it. I wonder why hardwoods scrape so nicely?

[Jim Matthews]

Looks like the OP has the knack.

Good onya, Derek.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Late to the party. Results look great.

The one key thing I learned when I was taught is how little pressure is needed to properly roll the burr. That right there made all the difference in my results.

[Jim Finn]

I had the same problem. A fellow club member made a scraper for me from an old saw blade and showed me how to sharpen it and it works great. The one I had bought would not take a hook while burnishing. I took this scraper to my stationary belt sander and ground it flat and tried using it without burnishing. It worked great! I think the steel is too hard to be burnished properly.