LV Perfect Handle style chisels

[Michael Ray Smith]

I looked to see if someone has already pointed this out and didn't see anything, but I'm sorry if I missed something. A week or two ago (maybe a little longer) there was a thread about the old H.D. Smith "Perfect Handle" design. I just noticed that Rob has a set of perfect handle-style chisels shown in on the new woodworking products page.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

The first thing that strikes me is the blades being 440 stainless steel. (http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=70784&cat=51&ap=1) I've no really knowledge of this sort of thing, it only strikes me as interesting because I don't think I've seen that choice in a chisel blade material. Don't expect LV to pick something horribly unsuited for the purpose of the tool, but no idea what that choice of material means in practice.

[Jim Koepke]

If you look at the hardness specs between these and their Veritas bench chisels you will see these may be a bit on the soft side.

Stainless steels do not seem to take an edge or retain it as well as carbon steel or the newer tool steels.

Most likely these would be fine for someone doing construction where a chisel comes in handy at times and it will be hit with a hammer.

My recollection is that is why some mechanics used to like the Perfect Handle screwdrivers for rusted screws.

One of my seldom used chisels is a Crescent brand all steel chisel. It was marketing was directed toward plumbers, electricians and others in the construction trades.

267637

jtk

[george wilson]

Frankly,I don't know what to think of 440 stainless being used for chisel blades. It is also called surgical stainless. 440 means only .40 carbon. The hardness is made up for by other alloys. I don't know how wear resistant it is. I'm guessing that Veritas has tested the metal for durability as a chisel steel. These products cost a great deal of money to develop. I'm sure they aren't gambling on the use of 440.

[David Weaver]

There are several 440 varieties. 440C is either what is used in friodur products or nearly identical to it, and 440C itself is good stuff. Maybe not ideal for tools, but passable. (440A/B varieties may even be passable since they are between 0.7 or so and 0.9 carbon.)

hose are import chisels where a plethorea of more common chrome manganese or chrome vandadium type steels or various knife-making stainless steels (like 440 or equivalents) will be cheaper than diemaking steels (O1, A2, D2), probably thus the choice.

If they are 440C, I wouldn't worry too much about it. And maybe not even worry about it of they are A/B as LV doesn't just get something off of alibaba and put it in their lineup. I'm sure they've tried them out.

Credit knowing what 440C is only because of wondering how friodur could make a stainless razor that actually shaves well.

[Tony Zaffuto]

Jim,

I have an all steel Stanley chisel I got from my deceased father. Chisel is probably 50+ years old and takes & holds an edge like you wouldn't believe. It is my "rough but not scraping concrete" chisel. It was also marketed as for "electricians, plumbers and other similar rough work".

[Chris Hachet]

Since I do electrical and plumbing work as pat of my job, this might be just the ticket to get me to send money north to Rob.

[Hilton Ralphs]

They are made by Chestnut Tools, the same company that makes those very nice parallel slot screw drivers. Most of their gadgets are fine even if some are manufactured in China. The very cool Sidewinder pliers come to mind.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Didn't realize that, even though it's on right on the box in the picture. The Chestnut Tools website (http://www.chestnuttools.com/Products/Default.aspx) has a link to all the tools they offer through LV, and there's a handful of neat ones in there I missed in the past.

I wonder if this is Lee Valley's new take on the "Utilitas" line they had a while back when they re-released the striking knife; a line for their tools that aren't necessarily made domestically or for some reason don't quite warrant the "Veritas" label. A WHOIS lookup shows a Lee Valley email address in the registration, and an IP lookup returns LV as well.

Ah - never mind - just before posting, I came across this article from Acreage Life (http://www.acreagelife.ca/lee.html) - looks like Chestnut Tools is Leonard Lee. Neat!

[Rob Lee]

(snip)
Ah - never mind - just before posting, I came across this article from Acreage Life (http://www.acreagelife.ca/lee.html) - looks like Chestnut Tools is Leonard Lee. Neat!

You've got it.... Chestnut is Dad's tool "skunkworks" in Almonte Ont.

Cheers -

Rob

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Some neat stuff. With some overtime coming up, I'm trying to find a way to justify the nice screwdrivers from Chestnut given that I've got some of the Grace ones already. My wife is thinking the shoe stretcher might be handy, too.

[Jim Matthews]

You've got it.... Chestnut is Dad's tool "skunkworks" in Almonte Ont.
Cheers - Rob

I love this site.
I love Rob's attitude -
even if he is a Sens fan...

[Ron Kellison]

It could be worse... he could be a Leafs fan! Nah, too much evidence that he's smart, level-headed and reasonably immune to marketing hype.

[Hilton Ralphs]

Damn fine article and the most sobering part is the second last paragraph.

[Ryan Griffey]

Looks like clever marketing.

[Mike Holbrook]

440 still gets used by some serious knife makers, who are not afraid to by pass the newer powdered steels. I believe that under the care of persons who know how to properly treat this steel at least good results can be had. I have a knife or two from a decade or two ago when a few of the top knife makers swore by their 440 knives in terms of hardness and toughness. Like so many things regarding steel for tools, the material used at the start of the manufacturing process may not resemble the final product much. I don't think I would just disregard a tool made from 440 steel, nor would I put all my trust in a rockwell rating as there may be many factors that may change any given steel for specific purposes.

[george wilson]

Indeed,Rockwell reading is not everything. There are also toughness,abrasion resistance,and other factors that have influences on a steel's performance.

[David Weaver]

I haven't ever seen anyone complain about the quality of Solingen made friodur products (knives or razors).

As far as the perfect handle chisels, I think anyone expecting the set to perform like a single VII chisel that costs the same amount will probably be unpleasantly surprised. Anyone who wants to just sharpen them and use them and sharpen them again when they get dull without worrying about whether or not they match vintage laminated chisels, or modern powder steel or japanese chisels will probably not be unpleasantly surprised.

440 at 59 hardness definitely will not sharpen like 59 hardness carbon steel, though, but.....they're attactive chisels for $69. Not a lot to complain about if you like to buy attractive tools. They ought to be tough, even if a bit heavy.

[Lonnie Gallaher]

Buck Knives used 440C Stainless steel for their knives from the early 1960s through the 1970s. They seem to hold an edge well.

[Marvin McConoughey]

I have a set of the all-steel Stanley chisels. They are quite elegant and easy to hold. I am not sure why I don't use them more. Maybe because I have a set of Narex hardened steel chisels mounted in easy reach.