New Tablesaw Decision.

[John M. Cioffi]

Hi,
Could I get some feedback concerning table saws?
I am contemplating between the Baileigh cabinet saw and 2 Grizzly models, G0691 and the G1023RLX.
What would the differences be between them, that would make me chose one over the other?
They are all made in China @ the same factory, so I am not open to that discussion. My funds will not allow me to purchase my 'dream' machines (Powermatic, Sawstop, Delta), so these are what is on the table. I really want to make the proper choice, which is why I am asking here. Thru the years, I know many here have purchased some type of Grizzly model & most have been satisfied, I believe. I know there is one particular table saw that seems to stand above the rest, in the Grizzly line. Did I choose that one out of my2 choices, or is there another one?
your expertise will help me determine what I end up purchasing.
thank you for your time and response.
John

[scott spencer]

Which is “better” is subjective ….both of the Grizzly saws have large strong followings, and neither seems to be clearly superior in every way. Both have industrial yoke style cabinet mounted trunnions and a true riving knife, both are 3hp, and both have a standard 27” deep top with standard miter slots. Here are the differences I know of….the 1023 is made in Taiwan, has the Shop Fox Classic (Beise clone) fence, a generic 3hp motor, the blade lift is done via a vertical elevation screw held in place with dovetail ways, it uses a large serpentine drive belt, has a dust shroud and DC port at the back of the saw. The G0690 is made in China, has a different generic Biese clone fence, an Asian made Leeson 3hp motor, the blade is mounted at the end of a more traditional swing arm, uses a more traditional triple v-belt drive system, and the DC port exits to the right of the saw….there’s no blade shroud. The G0690 has 30” stock rip capacity to the right, and the G1023RL has 26” rip capacity….the rails can be easily slid farther to the right to gain ~ 10” more rip capacity on the right, or both are available with extra long rails for 50”+ capacity. Both are apparently effective designs, and are well proven enough that any issues would have come to light by now….I’ve heard of no systemic type issues, and very few negatives overall. Grizzly has videos of both saws online, online manuals, and a nifty comparison chart that may help give you more insights. I personally like the design updates of the G1023RL, but I don’t have hands on experience with them.

I'm not sure what benefits the Baleigh might have....longer warranty? Dealer support?

[John TenEyck]

If your dream saw is one of those others, why would you spend serious money on something else? If you need a saw but can't afford your dream saw I'd find a used saw instead and continue saving your money until you can buy the saw you really want. I keep seeing used Unisaws for $500 or less. Get one of those or something similar and when you're ready to get that dream saw you'll be able to sell it for just about what you paid for it, maybe more if you bought well. Those new ones - you'll be lucky to get half your money back. Personally, I love my 1954 Unisaw, and see no reason to upgrade because nothing but the Sawstop or a slider is an upgrade.

John

[Bill Space]

HI,

I went through the same thought process recently and decided on the G1023RLWX. The incremental cost was not much and I liked having the 5 HP motor and cast iron router table extension. I also like the "machine tool" way the blade assembly raised on the 1023, VS the way the G0690 accomplished the same thing, similar to older designs. More importantly, I like the single serpentine belt on the 1023 VS multiple belts on the G0690. Just my feeling...

Aside from the safety feature of the Sawstop Saw, which worst case is worth more than the price of that saw for sure, I do not see the saw stop much different than my G1023RLWX. I only say this because we have one at work and I have used it a time or two, but not much.

For me, I would say moving up from a Craftsman contractors saw to the G1023 was a move to my "dream machine"...

Certainly there are better saws out there...but if funds are limited...the Grizzly saws offer a great bang for the buck. At this point I personally don't feel the need for anything "better". Ignorance is bliss, perhaps....

Bill

[Jim Andrew]

The local craigs list has an old Unisaw for 300$. Surely there are used saws in Massachusetts. But if I were getting a new Grizzly, would get the 1023.

[David Thomas1]

I just played this game like a few weeks ago. Do I go with the new Grizzly or a used Unisaw or PM66 if they go at the right price? I went with the latter and got a 3 phase Unisaw for $267 total (Converter is going to cost another $2). I'm only saying this (and it kills me to say this because I know we're going to bidding against each other) but there's another auction coming that has multiple saws up for sale. If I can get a Unisaw for under $500 and save me the hassle of having to get the converted then I'm doing it and selling mine for $3.

**Edit**
Forgot to add that I'm in Mass too.

[Rick Fisher]

I would go used for sure.. Tools like that are just too simple to not be worth buying used..

I have a Shop Fox cabinet saw which is similar to the 1023.. Bought it about 8 years ago .. its been a good saw.. no issues ..

[Stephen Cherry]

I'll chime in also for the used unisaw. I would spend a little more money and get a relatively new (less than about 20 years old), beisemyer equipped, hobby shop used, 3 hp, single phase saw. These will come up occasionally on craigslist. In my area, 1000 dollars, plus or minus, will get you a nice one with a little patience.

The big advantage is that when you are ready to sell, you will get about what you paid, rather than taking a bath. Nothing wrong with the other saws, but they will loose half the value as soon as you get it.

[joe maday]

I side on getting a used saw. The only problem with delta, bearings and nuts and bolts are standard but any delta parts could be hard to get from suppliers because of the take over of the company and the parts production and supply has not been reliable. That being said I also have seen 20-30 year old 3hp unisaws for 500-1000, in great shape, PM66 800-1200. 3hp is plenty. unless you are cutting alot of 3+ inch maple. Even the 1 1/2 HP unisaws, which usually go in the 300-500 range work well with modern thin knerf blades.
Just bring a staight edge with you, look "under the hood" and try them out, There are plenty out there. The fence.... beise style fence is nice but the older round rail types have been used for decades and are just as accurate. The newer fences are just quicker to take off/on and cheaper to make for the companies.
A little elbow grease and a used saw would be like new. It would be "your Baby" and if purchased right the savings in money could be put toward one or two high end blades like Forrest or Ridge Carbide (my preference).

[John M. Cioffi]

Well, thanks guys for the valuable responses. Scott, that is a good analysis between saws. Thanks for the info. Maybe it is not quite the time to invest. I already have a Delta Grand White Contractor's saw, that is about 15 years old & in excellent condition. I wanted to upgrade to a cabinet saw, for the extra power & dust collection. Can't quite get that from the type I have. So, continuing to save towards one of the dream saws may be the way to go. It's a funny thing, that I noticed there were 351 hits on my thread, but only 8 replies. Does that mean that you are the only 8 people who know about tablesaws?
Thanks again for the info, gentlemen.
John

[Brian Brightwell]

My suggestion is buy used and be patent. I bought this Uni-Saw for $1000. A little high maybe but it was like new.

http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy11/bebrightwell/Shop%20Photos/th_078_zps36cfb691.jpg (http://s773.photobucket.com/user/bebrightwell/media/Shop%20Photos/078_zps36cfb691.jpg.html)

I like my Laguna more but it was more money !

[Jeff Duncan]

It's a funny thing, that I noticed there were 351 hits on my thread, but only 8 replies. Does that mean that you are the only 8 people who know about tablesaws?
Thanks again for the info, gentlemen.
John


My guess, and it's just a guess, is that the way you worded your post kept a lot of responders form answering.....like myself:o My advice is similar to the others in that used is sometimes a better way to go. Generally I'll chime in and give my "buy used" rant. As you seemed to want to limit the discussion to just a new saw out of three choices, I think a lot of guys like myself chose to move right along;)

So having said that I know a fair amount about table saws.....what else would you like to know:D

good luck,
JeffD

[scott spencer]

Well, thanks guys for the valuable responses. ....t's a funny thing, that I noticed there were 351 hits on my thread, but only 8 replies. Does that mean that you are the only 8 people who know about tablesaws?


Nah....lots of guys know about table saws, but not many can type! :D

[Joseph Tarantino]

the last time wood magazine tested 3 hp table saws, the new unisaw and sawstop's PCS were rated top tools with the grizzly 0691 rated a top value. laguna, powermatic, general and jet all finished out of the money.

[Michael Shoffner]

I'll throw another opinion in the mix for you. You can certainly get a fine machine on the used market, but the recent addition of riving knives to table saws is an important enough upgrade in safety to throw most used options out of consideration for me (since most older saws do not have them). Next to the Sawstop braking technology, adding a riving knife is the safest upgrade you can add to a table saw.
I have not seen any reviews out there yet on Baleigh's tablesaws. I am very curious there too.

[Art Mann]

Where I live, used table saws come up on Craigslist at the rate of about two per year and it is not unusual to see a rusty old Unisaw with a bad fence selling for the same cost as a new Grizzly 1023. Buying used just isn't an option in some geographic locations.

[David Thomas1]

True true. I just knew in mass, where the op is from and where I'm from, you can get a better or equal saw for less money.

[David Helm]

I have had my Grizzly G1023RLX for over two years now. Frankly, it is the best table saw I have ever used, and I've been woodworking for over 40 years. The riving knife is definitely the best safety upgrade. It came out of the boxes with no problems. The table was dead flat. Installation took a little time but was worth it. There is virtually zero runout at the blade. The saw is very smooth and quiet. The blade lift mechanism and tilt mechanism are both very smooth and easy to turn. The only change I would make is a larger hose from the blade shroud to the DC pickup.

[Phil Thien]

I would go with Grizzly because they have a fairly long track record of maintaining parts and proving long-term support for their products.

[Mike Hollingsworth]

Don't buy a table saw without a riving knife.

[John TenEyck]

Don't buy a table saw without a riving knife.

If people would just use the guard/splitter that came on their saw there wouldn't be near as many "incidents" as there are. Riving knives are an improvement over a splitter mostly because they don't come off when people remove the guard. Also, there are several aftermarket riving knife type attachments that can be fit onto an older Unisaw, etc. The ultimate in stupidity, IMO, is to buy a SawStop and remove the guard. Sort of like driving w/o a seat belt and relying on the air bag to save you.

John

[Roy Harding]

If people would just use the guard/splitter that came on their saw there wouldn't be near as many "incidents" as there are. Riving knives are an improvement over a splitter mostly because they don't come off when people remove the guard. Also, there are several aftermarket riving knife type attachments that can be fit onto an older Unisaw, etc. The ultimate in stupidity, IMO, is to buy a SawStop and remove the guard. Sort of like driving w/o a seat belt and relying on the air bag to save you.

John

You're right - BUT, riving knives and splitters are entirely different technologies. The Europeans have had this figured out for YEARS (not to mention their braking technology). A riving knife raises and lowers with the saw blade. Consequently, I can set my riving knife just a "smidge" below the top of the blade and NEVER have to remove it - even for non-through cuts (like grooves, etcetera).

I have an old "name brand" tablesaw that I still use as a secondary saw for dados, grooves, rabbets, tenons, etcetera - I haven't got the foggiest idea where the splitter is - nor can I remember when I last saw it - the saw is more than twenty years old, and I bet I haven't seen the splitter for it for more than nineteen of those years.

If you have a splitter, then yes, that's what you should use for through cuts. If you have an option to go for a riving knife, I'd highly recommend it. Set it up once, slightly below top dead centre of your blade, and forget about it. Although it won't do any good during such cuts, you can leave it in place for non-through cuts such as dados, etcetera.

Oh - as far as I can recall, Saw Stops came with riving knives right from the first model - so removing the guard shouldn't be an issue with them.

[John TenEyck]

You're right - BUT, riving knives and splitters are entirely different technologies. The Europeans have had this figured out for YEARS (not to mention their braking technology). A riving knife raises and lowers with the saw blade. Consequently, I can set my riving knife just a "smidge" below the top of the blade and NEVER have to remove it - even for non-through cuts (like grooves, etcetera).

I have an old "name brand" tablesaw that I still use as a secondary saw for dados, grooves, rabbets, tenons, etcetera - I haven't got the foggiest idea where the splitter is - nor can I remember when I last saw it - the saw is more than twenty years old, and I bet I haven't seen the splitter for it for more than nineteen of those years.

If you have a splitter, then yes, that's what you should use for through cuts. If you have an option to go for a riving knife, I'd highly recommend it. Set it up once, slightly below top dead centre of your blade, and forget about it. Although it won't do any good during such cuts, you can leave it in place for non-through cuts such as dados, etcetera.

Oh - as far as I can recall, Saw Stops came with riving knives right from the first model - so removing the guard shouldn't be an issue with them.

Huh? Are you suggesting it's OK to remove the blade guard just because a saw has a riving knife? I'll bet even Saw Stop doesn't sanction that, and I wonder how they will respond when someone gets hurt and then find out the guard was missing.

John

[Roy Harding]

Huh? Are you suggesting it's OK to remove the blade guard just because a saw has a riving knife? I'll bet even Saw Stop doesn't sanction that, and I wonder how they will respond when someone gets hurt and then find out the guard was missing.

John

You misread my intent. BECAUSE Sawstops come with a Riving Knife, there is no NEED to remove it OR the guard - therefore, there shouldn't be any issue caused by removing the guard - because it won't BE removed.

[Wade Lippman]

The ultimate in stupidity, IMO, is to buy a SawStop and remove the guard. Sort of like driving w/o a seat belt and relying on the air bag to save you.


I have only removed my SS guard once on a though cut because the cut was too thin to allow it.
However I use it for dust collection (which is excellent btw) rather than for protection.

I used a Grizzly for years without a guard, and figure I have less than one chance in ten thousand of contacting the blade. The SS automatically protects me in that rare instance; I surely don't need extra protection from a guard. So if I ever have a good reason to remove it, I will; while I always wear a seatbelt because that is important for safety.

OP - I, and many of the other people who read your post without replying, pretty much agreed with the other repliers and had nothing important add. Any of the three saws will be fine.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

Huh? Are you suggesting it's OK to remove the blade guard just because a saw has a riving knife? I'll bet even Saw Stop doesn't sanction that, and I wonder how they will respond when someone gets hurt and then find out the guard was missing.

John

The Sawstop comes with a blade guard and a riving knife. I'm sure they are okay with not using a blade guard. There are many time you don't want to and can't use a blade guard.

[John TenEyck]

You misread my intent. BECAUSE Sawstops come with a Riving Knife, there is no NEED to remove it OR the guard - therefore, there shouldn't be any issue caused by removing the guard - because it won't BE removed.

Thanks for the clarification. Makes sense.

John

[John TenEyck]

The Sawstop comes with a blade guard and a riving knife. I'm sure they are okay with not using a blade guard. There are many time you don't want to and can't use a blade guard.

I'm sure they are NOT Ok with not using the guard. I'll bet they will tell you to use the guard whenever possible.

John

[John TenEyck]

I have only removed my SS guard once on a though cut because the cut was too thin to allow it.
However I use it for dust collection (which is excellent btw) rather than for protection.

I used a Grizzly for years without a guard, and figure I have less than one chance in ten thousand of contacting the blade. The SS automatically protects me in that rare instance; I surely don't need extra protection from a guard. So if I ever have a good reason to remove it, I will; while I always wear a seatbelt because that is important for safety.

OP - I, and many of the other people who read your post without replying, pretty much agreed with the other repliers and had nothing important add. Any of the three saws will be fine.

I'm glad the dust collection on the Saw Stop's guard is so good that you use it.

John

[Beau Cassidy]

Take your time and shop around. I did and saved about 1K on a NIB Sawstop.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

I'm sure they are NOT Ok with not using the guard. I'll bet they will tell you to use the guard whenever possible.

John

Dude, you take things way out of context. You posted they don't SANCTION not using a blade guard. The fact that they provide a riving knife to use when you cannot use a guard means they do sanction using the saw without the guard. I am also sure that they want you to use the guard whenever possible. And I do use the guard whenever possible. If I can't, I use the riving knife. My saw does not get used without the guard or riving knife installed. And my old SS has the crappiest (NONE) dust collection above blade. But I still use it.

[John TenEyck]

Dude, you take things way out of context. You posted they don't SANCTION not using a blade guard. The fact that they provide a riving knife to use when you cannot use a guard means they do sanction using the saw without the guard. I am also sure that they want you to use the guard whenever possible. And I do use the guard whenever possible. If I can't, I use the riving knife. My saw does not get used without the guard or riving knife installed. And my old SS has the crappiest (NONE) dust collection above blade. But I still use it.

Perhaps you didn't say or I didn't get what you intended. No matter, I'm glad you are using all of the safety features on your saw whenever possible. Many don't - and take needless risks. I wonder what the statistics are for table saw accidents between those who used all the safety devices and those who didn't? I'll bet the numbers are very telling. And I don't want to start another discussion about the operator being the most important safety device. That ground has been plowed many times already - yet accidents persist.

John

[Keith Hankins]

Just got to get back to the forum and noticed this. I've had my griz 1023slx for many years now and its never failed me. It was my first griz purchase. It's been moved across country and not a single issue. Matter of fact I just used it about 30 min ago. I also have the 17" BS , the 12" jointer, and the horizontal boring machine. All do a fine job. Now so that you know I'm a griz fan. If it were me again today. I'd either do one of two things (and I know you only asked for a either or). I'd either go get an old piece of american iron that can be had for a song and use that, or I'd go for a Sawstop, just because I would want the safety of it. I've been waiting to upgrade my griz to a used industrial 5hp model as soon as one comes available. If you want cheap and great, the old iron is the way to go. Either go over to the old woodworking forum and people rehab them all the time and sell, or get one and do it yourself you wont regret it. Anyway that's my opinion and that and a buck fifty will get you a cup of coffee. Cheers!

[John Coloccia]

I'm sure they are NOT Ok with not using the guard. I'll bet they will tell you to use the guard whenever possible.

John

There are two assemblies that the SS comes with. There is the blade guard assembly, which more closely resembles a splitter than a riving knife (though it moves up and down with the blade), and then there is the separate riving knife which replaces the blade guard. There are cuts that are impossible to make with the blade guard in place, and I'm not talking just non-through cuts. Thin cuts are impossible with the guard in place. Many jigs are impossible to use with the guard in place. Obviously, the intent would be to use the guard whenever possible. SS's system is so convenient and works so well that most people I know DO use the blade guard nearly all the time. This is much different than older style saws where most people I know (including myself) simply removed the splitter and blade guard permanently. Anyhow, I just wanted to make clear that it's not a matter of simply removing the blade guard. You remove the entire assembly and replace with the included riving knife.

It really is a thing of beauty that I can replace the blade guard with the riving knife in a matter of a few seconds. I think the Unisaw is pretty good in this regard too. I wonder PM's system is? I can't say that I've seen a new PM table saw yet.

[Jason White]

I had a Grizzly 1023 for a few years and LOVED it!! I have a 5-year-old Unisaw now and actually like the Grizzly better than my Unisaw.

[Brent Ring]

There are alot of table saw threads on SMC. I think if you perused them - your would get more than you ever wanted in terms of tables purchasing advice. That may be why you get lots of looks, and not to many comments. :)

I bought a Grizzly slider about 2 years ago, and really love it. I had considered alot of other options. I chose to suffer the Ridgid portable and eventually was able to get something that should last me for awhile. I side with the "buy used" crowd, and save for the right "dream saw". Until the next dream comes along ...... :)