"Spanish Cedar" outdoor usage?

[Peter Kuhlman]

Want to build a really nice patio table with benches. Will see lots of rain and high intensity sunlight. Found some absolutely gorgeous cedar called Spanish cedar at local lumber store. Expensive at $4.10 a board foot but not really much more than cypress. The cypress has lots of holes and knots while the cedar boards I saw we're all totally clear.

Any issue with using this outdoors uncovered? Any recommendations for a sealer water repellant treatment? Would prefer a clear treatment like Thompsons Wood Sealer.

Any issues machining or drilling?
Would probably try to seal the leg ends with something but as there are 16 1.5x5" boards touching the concrete, it would take a lot of epoxy.

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=32420

Thanks! Pete

[Mike OMelia]

Spanish Cedar (not really a cedar) is what they use in humidors. I use it on the inside of my guitars for the aromatic quality (flexible kerfed lining). It's structurally quite good for that task as well. It would seem to me to be a misuse of that material, though that would be entirely up to you! :) I absolutely love the stuff, but would never have considered it for exterior use.

[Peter Kuhlman]

They have stacks of the stuff here - all 8/4 lumber 12 foot long and random width. Kind of an orange tint to it. They call it Spanish Cedar but could easily be some other member of the family.
Not many options that I have found here in Louisiana for outdoor wood that is relatively free from big knots and holes. The pressure treated stuff has gone downhill in quality and not fit for benches and such. Cypress is somewhat better but still even in 2" thick has through holes. Have not found any white oak.

[Mike OMelia]

Here is some wiki on it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cedrela

It's in the mahogany family. I used to have a place nearby that stocked it as well. It's pretty expensive. Maybe the kind you have there is not the aromatic kind? (Cederal Oderata). Properly sealed it would work fine. I wish I could find a source for the essential oil of that wood!

[Dan Neuhaus]

At my my Boss's house (I'm a private estate manager) we've used hundreds of ft of Spanish cedar. Siding, storm windows and storm doors mostly. It machines great and has held up exceptionally well outside, with the note that everything we've done has been painted. Usually get 2 coats of oil based primer before Duration to stop bleed through. But I can't see why a good exterior clear top coat wouldn't work well.

[Jeff Duncan]

We use spanish cedar for exterior work up here too. It's not all that expensive....compared to suitable alternatives.....and it's plentiful. It machines well and besides the smell of the dust, (which can be a bit much), I find it pretty easy to work with.

good luck,
JeffD

[Mike OMelia]

Jeff, what do you think about using it to build a floor to ceiling shelf system (library room/office)?

[Sam Murdoch]

I have used it to build screen doors - painted and clear coated and it has held up well in the weather. As I always advice for exterior benches and tables - the way to add years of worry free life to these is to saturate the feet with several coats of epoxy. Then sand off any residue on the sides of the legs before finishing.

As for interior shelf systems - why not? It finishes up like mahogany and as Jeff writes it works easily. The dust is pretty toxic so you need to be able to deal with that. I like the smell but I find the dust very irritating.

[Jeff Duncan]

Sam beat me to it, I don't see any reason not to use it for any type of interior work. When finished it makes a pretty good substitute for Mahogany;)

I think it smells nice as well.....until you start to mill it! The dust is less than appealing:o

good luck,
JeffD

[Thomas love]

267576267573267574I built these out of 8/4 figured Spanish Cedar about 6 years ago. Finish is spar with uv protection has held up quite well . Gets beat on by Texas sun in the after noon . I found a whole skid of it about 1500 bd ft some ten years ago, all figured . Used it for two 4x8 tables and 16 chairs , interior.267575

[Peter Quinn]

It's used here a lot for garage doors, windows, storms, exterior stuff. Only draw back is its real soft, so it's not going to take dings and dents if used hard. Harder than western red cedar, softer than cypress. Even African mahogany is much harder IME. Plus side it's really light, thus the use for things that benefit from not being heavy. Don't leave your furniture outside in a hurricane! Dont count on it to hold a big umbrella stand either. An IPe table might stay put for that. I imagine clear coats would require regular maintenance like a deck, same basic orientation to the sun, less foot traffic, unless you have kids like mine who like to climb on tables....

[Rob Feldner]

Pete,

I live and work in Louisiana and we use Spanish Cedar quite a bit for exterior applications. It is pretty easy to work with if the boards have fairly uniform grain. The figured stuff is...figured, so it can fight with you at times. Make sure you have a mask and decent ventilation when you sand it. The dust can be pretty irritating. At the very least you lunch might taste like cedar.
Like anything in this region, maintenence is the key. Most of the things that we have replaced have been in very wet locations or the finish had been neglected.

[Mel Fulks]

Nice job,Thomas. Unusual grain. Haven't seen it mentioned that its used to line cigar humidors.

[Peter Kuhlman]

Thanks everyone for the replies. Really appreciated.

[Mike OMelia]

Nice job,Thomas. Unusual grain. Haven't seen it mentioned that its used to line cigar humidors.

Walk into any good cigar store. The primary scent after tobacco is Spanish Cedar. In fact, in my mind, the two scents are inseparable. That is why I am interested in using for a shelf system

[Mike OMelia]

And it is interesting to know it can be used outside!

[Leo Graywacz]

That is my main wood for exterior use now that everything else besides white oak has gone through the roof price wise.

Holds up well to outside, I've always painted it.

I have nicknamed it pukewood. The dust has a horrible horrible taste and the oils of the wood get on your hands and transfers to everything you touch including your sandwich, so beware.

It is alcohol solvable, and I would suggest taking vodka or some other alcohol and wiping down your lips and moustache before you eat. No, I'm not kidding. Wash your hands with DNA or isopropyl alcohol to rid yourself of the oils. This is the only wood I will use a respirator on. Not dust masks - respirator.

[Peter Quinn]

It is alcohol solvable, and I would suggest taking vodka or some other alcohol and wiping down your lips and moustache before you eat.

I used to work with a guy that would do that every day before lunch....and after lunch....sometimes he'd start just after 10 o'clock break. He didn't think a simple wipe down would suffice, he started doing a complete routine flush, rinse out the mouth and then flush the throat thoroughly. Had to wake him up in his car a number of times after lunch. I'd always though he had a problem, never realized he was just practicing good hygiene. We worked with lots of teak, zebra wood, western red cedar, African mahogany at the time. Never Spanish cedar though. But appearantly it's good practice for other species too? :rolleyes:

[Leo Graywacz]

I never needed to wash my throat out. Mostly hands and the moustache. :D

[Thomas love]

We recoat the finish on the doors every 2 to 3 years , maintenance for sure. As for softness I agree most of the 4/4 I have used has been soft , no quite as soft as the cypress around here ... soft none the less. The 8/4 in the pic I posted had tight growth rings and were in the hardnes range of a soft maple . I have two boards left in the rack 2" x 27" x 10' ..

[Leo Graywacz]

Soft maple is pretty hard.

[Thomas love]

267689267690For sure Leo , Heres some 8/4 used for cornice/ fretwork painted. This was very soft compared to the figured stock in the other pics , Very nice to work with with the exception of the dust as mentioned.

[Jim Underwood]

Might not want to use DNA to flush your throat out. Especially if it has Methylated Spirits as a denaturant. You know - causes blindness and death?

[Leo Graywacz]

I did say drinking alcohol for you face and DNA for your hands. I learned the hard way that DNA on the lips is a pretty good burning sensation.

[Jim Underwood]

The danger of using drinking alcohol... is that you might drink it instead, and be passed out drunk. ;)

Or folks might think you've been drinking, which might be just as bad in the wrong situation.

As for Spanish Cedar, I find it's harder than Cypress, and smells even better (although some folks don't like the smell of either, go figure). It also machines well.
I can't vouch for it's durability outdoors, but it's one of the things the lumber company has sold me in the past for outdoor use.
Woods I've been told are rot resistant are:
Black Locust,
Osage Orange,
White Oak,
Cypress,
Redwood,
Spanish Cedar

[Garth Holden]

spanish cedar has a moderate weather rating , it has a tendency to bleed as well. i use it for exterior millwork in louisiana as it's the only exterior wood available here. as for being plentiful in the next year or so they won't be exporting it anymore it's on an endangered list, too much clearcutting. the next choice will be thermally treated lumber which uses vinegar in the treating process. it's comimg from switzerland and there are probably 6 or 8 us distributors at the moment. they use a close grain spruce or pine similar to north american sugar pine.eventually there might be treatment plants here.

[Peter Kuhlman]

Well I am going to try it for this project. Picked up about 2/3rds of what indeed as they didn't have enough wide stock left. This stuff is not cheap at $4.10 a board foot but is nice clear lumber with no knots or defects. Lots of planing to do now. Will epoxy the leg ends and use a clear sealer of some sort on the finished project or maybe coat it in smaller assembly pieces. I am sure the Louisiana sun will change the color no matter what I coat it with and paint does not hold up well on horizontal surfaces here.

Thanks for all the replies. Very helpful.

[Leo Graywacz]

Remember what I said about the oils in the wood. At minimum wear a dust mask. I'd opt for a respirator. Usually it mills very nice. Sometimes you get a board that mills with a hairy fuzz.

[Peter Kuhlman]

I will be careful. Thanks! All my power tools have dust collection - Festool, over arm collection and cabinet on tablesaw, dual collection on router table, etc.