Miss the days of ACTUAL 2X6 SIZED LUMBER!!!!

[Clarence Martin]

Went out to measure the front porch steps that need to be replaced. The old boards got some rot in them and replacing them with pressure treated 2x6's. Steps are 2 steps and they have 2 8 ft boards each 2x6. When I say 2x6 I mean 2 inches thick by 6 inches wide ! Want to replace them with 2x6 's of the same size , but that is impossible to find !:(

[Mark Bolton]

You can easily find them but they won't be pressure treated. I don't think I even know many people who rember the days when full cut 2x material was the norm commercially. Surfacing framing lumber has been happening for a long time, you'd have to be pretty old to remember when they were " standard fare" so to speak.

[Clarence Martin]

There used to be a mill nearby that would cut dimensional lumber to exact 2x4,2x6, 2x8, ect sizes . When I wanted Cherry 2 inches thick x 10 inches wide, that is what was sold to me, planed down even !


Miss those days!!!

[Clarence Martin]

Come to think of it, when did they reduce the thickness on Plywood ?

[Jeff Duncan]

Come to think of it, when did they reduce the thickness on Plywood ?

They didn't......necessarily.....you can still get 3/4" thick plywood if your willing to buy the better quality products;) I just measured a couple pieces of 3/4" birch I'm working with....3/4" on the dot!

As far as dimensional lumber being a full 2" x 6" that was well before my time....probably close to a hundred years since lumber commonly came that way. I'm not sure PT lumber ever came that way standard:confused: It's not difficult to find lumber that's true 2" x 6", any local shop should be able to supply that for you. Finding it in PT.....sorry I can't help you there:o BTW that's a pretty beefy tread if this is for a residential property? Don't think Ive ever seen 2x material used for treads unless they were high traffic public situations?

good luck,
JeffD

[Mark Bolton]

Come to think of it, when did they reduce the thickness on Plywood ?

A very long time ago. I too have a mill that will sell me kiln dried and surfaced lumber at my desired dimension, however the fact is still the same, YOU PAY for the footage they shrink away with the drying, and plane away with the surfacing.

The simple fact of the matter is you pay for ALL the wood. Even the stuff they haul off as sawdust. That money has to come from somewhere, and your the one forking over the money.

You can walk into nearly any supplier tomorrow and tell them you want a kiln dried board, southern yellow pine, and dimensions are to be 2"x6"x96" and thats what you will get, though you may have to wait for it to be produced. The price for that board will equate to the board footage of the rough stock it took to make it (something like 2 1/2 x 7 x 102) plus the cost of kiln drying, plus the cost of surfacing.

I can only imagine at that point you would find the price of a 2x6x8 PT board at Lowes a little more attractive.

Just because you dont have a supplier near to you doesnt me you cant get it. You can, but you'll likely not want to pay the price.

[Clarence Martin]

Prices were not bad when they sold them a couple years ago. Red Pine that I bought for 2 heavy picnic tables was .50 a Bd Ft. Pine 2x4's and 2x6's were .70 a Bd Ft. Of course, this was all air dried stock.

[Jim Andrew]

If you want a wood that will stand up to weather, just use white oak. Have your local mill cut it full dimension. Problem solved. Of course you will have to drill the holes and screw it together, but it will last a long time. Longer if you treat it.

[Peter Quinn]

Went out to measure the front porch steps that need to be replaced. The old boards got some rot in them and replacing them with pressure treated 2x6's. Steps are 2 steps and they have 2 8 ft boards each 2x6. When I say 2x6 I mean 2 inches thick by 6 inches wide ! Want to replace them with 2x6 's of the same size , but that is impossible to find !:(

I can "find" rough 2X6's at at least 4 locations within 30 minutes of my location, more if I go just a bit further. There are lots of small mills around that stock wood for restoration work, or for those who think they are being cheated by dimensioned lumber. :rolleyes: So not impossible to find everywhere. Question in my mind is, why? I live in an old house full of undimensioned lumber, most of it was probably milled locally, probably pine of some sort. No great joy to deal with, splinter city, hard to mark with a pencil, doug fir is a fair bit stronger, even at is slim relative size, and way easier to build with. Today you can get things like IPE or Cumaru for exterior treads, do your part to devastated the rain forest, lasts nearly forever, so hard it blunts bugs teeth, more than strong enough at 1 1/2" thickness. I like to walk bare foot so pressure treat is out for me. I don't like the tingle of ACQ or worse between my toes.


Ok, enough sardonic pondering, if you are passionate about the thick lumber, make it happen, find a local sawyer, make your request, pick a good species, still functional long after we are history....pick a bad species, get a good decade of reasonable service before the mail carrier sends you a nasty note about your stairs. Or frame it solid and use plastic.......did I say that out loud?

[Bill Neely]

I'm 70 years old and finished lumber has been less than the nominal dimension for as long as I can remember. Plywood at one time was layed up to the nominal dimension and sanded to the actual dimension - that practice is out the window for most mfgs.

[Joe Scharle]

During WWII the US gov. decided the actual dimensions, since it was the only buyer of lumber for a few years.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

As stated by one earlier poster. I can get plywood that is actual dimensions. I just built a router station using 3/4" oak plywood. The plywood measures an actual 3/4" thick. It was fun using my router bits and dado blades without making any corrections for the dimension! The plywood isn't cheap, however.

Dimensional lumber has been less than stated size all of my life.

[scott vroom]

"Miss the days of ACTUAL 2X6 SIZED LUMBER!!!!"

Martin, unless you're pushing 100 years old you weren't around when a 2x6 measured actual 2x6.

If some of your steps are rotted then most likely others will soon follow. Just replace them all and be done with it. If that's too much work, then mill a couple of boards in your shop to match the existing steps.

[John Stankus]

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/misc/miscpub_6409.pdf
This is a history of lumber sizing. It looks like the sizes shrunk by about 4% every 10-20 years from 1909 to the 1960s

John

[Pat Barry]

Similar topic - green treated decking boards. I went to buy some to replace existing decking boards and the new ones are at least 1/16" thicker. How the heck did that happen? Now there are trip points where the old and new boards lay next to each other. Very frustrating!!

[Mark Bolton]

Similar topic - green treated decking boards. I went to buy some to replace existing decking boards and the new ones are at least 1/16" thicker. How the heck did that happen? Now there are trip points where the old and new boards lay next to each other. Very frustrating!!

Pat,
While the boards may well have been thicker, it too could have been shrinkage. This would depend on what kind of treated you were buying (the new stuff). Many treating processes leave the wood very saturated so a fair amount of shrinkage and movement can be expected. There are some sources that are drying the material after treating to stabilize it a bit more so these would be less apt to be drastically thicker fresh as opposed to after they've sat in the sun for a while.

If the treated you installed seemed pretty damp it may likely shrink down flush over time.

It of course could have also just been a different mill, different run, and so on, who run material slightly thicker. 1/16" in deck building is high tolerance. When working with treated, no matter how much you fuss with it its going to look bad in short order.

[John Piwaron]

"Miss the days of ACTUAL 2X6 SIZED LUMBER!!!!"

Martin, unless you're pushing 100 years old you weren't around when a 2x6 measured actual 2x6.



I'm not sure that's true - the framing lumber in the walls of my house contain actual "to size" boards. 2x4s for sure. probably others if I'd care to check. those 2x4s look rough. That is, furry as though they'd come off a saw. No planing.

My house was built in 1941.

[John Piwaron]

When I have to replace something on my house I usually find that the size it's made of is different from the size that is currently used for the same job. I choose to make my own to the dimensions of the original rather than try to make a current "standard" work. Yeah, that adds a good bit of hassle to the project.

[Mark Bolton]

I'm not sure that's true - the framing lumber in the walls of my house contain actual "to size" boards. 2x4s for sure. probably others if I'd care to check. those 2x4s look rough. That is, furry as though they'd come off a saw. No planing.

My house was built in 1941.

Houses are still built today with rough lumber especially in rural areas. Its often times because people "think" they can buy the lumber cheaper than the stuff commercially available. Beyond that they do absolutely zero factoring for how heavy, how hard it is to work with, the fact that your luck if you have one straight edge, that your building is going to shrink, twist, and check, as the lumber dries, and so on. Its the old "discount your labor to zero" factor.

My shop and business, as well as my home, are in such an area and it amazes me how often people think they are making out like a bandit building with rough lumber either green off the mill or only slightly air dried (because thats the only time it'll be straight). The issues of using that material in the homes of today with their tight tolerance doors, windows, trim, cabinetry, and so on, are a pretty regular conversation around here. Not to mention there are 5.3 board feet in an 8' 2x4 and around here you can sometimes get hardwood for 450/MBF but more commonly its 650/MBF green. At the 650 number they are paying 3.50 for a 2x4! :eek: No bargain there.

[David L Morse]

For more than you ever wanted to know about the changes in lumber sizes over the years check this out (http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/misc/miscpub_6409.pdf).

[John Piwaron]

Houses are still built today with rough lumber especially in rural areas.

I wasn't around in 1941 to know what the builder was thinking. :) It appears to be pine/douglas fir - something like that. It's also straight and hard. Well, as hard as a coniferous wood might get. I do like that it's really 2x4. And really on 16" centers. That made it easy to put things on the wall. Cabinets and my TV.

I might have liked it more if the wood were oak or similar, but i don't know that anyone was crazy enough then to use a hardwood for that. Keep in mind that this is a house built in the city. I have no doubt that there's plenty of rural homes and maybe others built with lumber harvested on site that may be just that.

[Larry Browning]

The barn at my family's farm is made from full dimension rough sawn oak lumber. My father helped build it back in the 30's. It is now impossible to drive a nail or screw into any of that original lumber without first drilling a pilot hole.

[Clarence Martin]

Found one more board that needs to be replaced on the porch. It's on the main part of the porch, The board is a 2 x 12 x 8 ft in length. 2 inches actual thickness x 12 inches actual width. Looks like I will have to be adding on another piece since treated lumber isn't 12 inches wide.

[Jim Andrew]

The framing lumber you get at the lumber yards is not dry like the hardwood you build your projects from. It is stamped kiln dried, but it is nowhere near as dry as lumber you would use to build furniture. Also, most of it is stored outside, so if it was somewhat dry at some time, it has had time to pick up moisture from the outside air, and rain etc. When you build a house, you want to let the frame dry somewhat before you install sheetrock. I used to have to go in and cut a few studs and add scabs on the side as some studs would bow out of line with the others in the wall. It is worse on interior walls where they have no boxing attached. Just 2 or 3 weeks makes a lot of difference.

[Jeff Duncan]

Old buildings like barns, and going even further back homes, commonly had whatever wood was available on the lot used to frame. So many real old buildings have oak or other hardwood timbers in them. Remember though at the time they were not kiln dried first, maybe air dried a little, but that was probably about it. Working with green wood, or partially dried wood is much easier than kiln dried wood. You can easily drive nails and hand cut joints in oak, but once it's fully dried out it's a different story;) It's the same with modern framing material, you can easily cut and nail into studs as they're pretty soft. However if you try to nail into a stud that's say been sitting in a corner of the basement for several years drying out, the tendency to split is greatly increased!

As a rough guide kiln dried hardwoods generally will be in the 6-10% range for MC. Kiln dried framing woods will be, IIRC, in the 16-20% range. I'm not sure about PT woods as they seem to be wetter than green wood:eek: The wetter the wood is when installed the greater the amount of shrinkage you can expect as it inevitably dries out. So that 2" x 12" board may have been a bit wider when installed?

good luck,
JeffD

[Steve Peterson]

Back in the early 80's, I tore down an old stick built shed and put it back together at another location. It was probably around 20-30 years old at the time, so built in the 60s. Some of the 2x4s were 1.75 by 3.75 rough cut size. Others were the standard 1.5 by 3.5. What a hassle trying to re-use the oversize lumber. I just wish that all lumber would be made the same size. Real 2x4 dimensions would be great for making headers without needing to put in a 1/2" spacer.

[Mark Bolton]

Back in the early 80's, I tore down an old stick built shed and put it back together at another location. It was probably around 20-30 years old at the time, so built in the 60s. Some of the 2x4s were 1.75 by 3.75 rough cut size. Others were the standard 1.5 by 3.5. What a hassle trying to re-use the oversize lumber. I just wish that all lumber would be made the same size. Real 2x4 dimensions would be great for making headers without needing to put in a 1/2" spacer.

Prices would go up a lot and probably make installing the fillers a little less uncomfortable ;) If we wanted full 2x4's we'd be paying for material cut at 2 1/2 x 4 1/2, dried, surfaced, less pieces per kiln load, less on a truck, more weight, and so on.

At least for the last several decades all material has been made the same size so the standards are set. Its just the nomenclature that gets people confused who dont work with the stuff regularly.

[Roger Feeley]

The house I grew up in was built in 1928. I don't remember the studs but my dad told me once that they were actually 2x4" and made of oak. He said that they were smooth in the 2" dimension but rough along the 4" sides. I do know that the siding was all old growth redwood. As far as I know, that siding is still there.

[Dell Littlefield]

Yesterday, I found some 2X4s, reported to be from the 1800s in white oak. The actual measurements are 1 3/4 by 3 3/4.

[seth henry]

Not sure where you are, but here in the Northeast if you go to Craigslist and search on bandmill or woodmizer you will find tons of guys with portable mills offering wood milling. Call one of these guys and they can saw dimensional to spec and should be wired into cheap logs. I use Hemlock for decks and other outdoor framing instead of PT and it holds up pretty well with the bonus of no toxic chemicals. Way cheaper too 40-60 cents BF milled.


Went out to measure the front porch steps that need to be replaced. The old boards got some rot in them and replacing them with pressure treated 2x6's. Steps are 2 steps and they have 2 8 ft boards each 2x6. When I say 2x6 I mean 2 inches thick by 6 inches wide ! Want to replace them with 2x6 's of the same size , but that is impossible to find !:(

[george newbury]

Not sure where you are, but here in the Northeast if you go to Craigslist and search on bandmill or woodmizer you will find tons of guys with portable mills offering wood milling. Call one of these guys and they can saw dimensional to spec and should be wired into cheap logs. I use Hemlock for decks and other outdoor framing instead of PT and it holds up pretty well with the bonus of no toxic chemicals. Way cheaper too 40-60 cents BF milled.

Or if you really want to do it right -
267772

Get several hundred acres of hardwood and softwood, a chainsaw, a tractor, a mill and make your own. It keeps me busy.

[Rod Sheridan]

Come to think of it, when did they reduce the thickness on Plywood ?

I don't know when the US went metric on plywood, however I would guess that it would be twenty years ago?...............Regards, Rod.