Advice on a basic planes

[Daniel Rode]

I'm getting back into woodworking after a few years absence. I don't have much money, so buying lots of books and beautiful planes is not an option.

I'm hoping for some advice on choosing some basic planes. I'm a weekend warrior and I'll continue to use a my powered planer, jointer, router. My goal is to use hand planes to fit, finish and adjust after initial work with the power tools. Today I have a 6 /14" stanley "contractor" block plane and a 9 3/4" contractor bench plane. I get some use from the block plane but mostly for chamfering an edge. The bench plane just sits and collects dust. The good news is that I don't have $75 invested in the set, so I probably got my money's worth...

While neither are very good quality, I did take the time to flatten the soles and sharpen the irons. Even if they are not wonderful, I figured they ought to be serviceable. The block plane clearly needs sharpened and I'll check and resharpen the bench plane at the same time. I'm pretty sure I can handle that much but that's the extent of my knowledge. I don't really know how to use these effectively, how to set the blades, frog or mouth. I don't really understand how to correctly apply the tool to the workpiece. However, watching a number of videos and watching how the woodworker moved has helped a bit already.

So my advice request has 3 parts.

1) How to I use these two planes? What exercises can I do to practice and learn?
Free resources are best, but I'm willing to buy a book or vid if it's really useful.
2) If you could only choose 2 planes, Is a block plane and a 10" plane the right styles?
Not my specific set, but in general are these the best core planes?
3) Would I get significantly better results from a higher quality pair of planes?
If so, are there alternatives less expensive than the LN range?

Bonus question for my wish list. For regularly working with M&T joints, what specialty planes are really useful but not super expensive?

Thanks in advance

-Dan

[David Weaver]

I'll hit the last thing on M&T. If you have a caliper or some reasonable measuring device, you don't need anything for M&T other than two chisels, and you'll already have those. I have a plethorea of tools that are discussed for M&T (shoulder planes, etc) but I never use them, I use only two things - two chisels, and from time to time I'll use a plane bed float to thin a tenon a tiny bit, but in reality I can functionally do the same thing as fast with a chisel that has a reasonable amount of width.

What is more important than what tools you use is that you mark accurately, you mark deep enough that you won't have trouble finding your mark or getting a chisel edge in it, and you order your cuts so that you don't end up cutting your marks off before you use them.

While your bench plane might not be a stellar example of the planemaker's trade, I'd bet that the majority of them are capable of any work you need to do with a plane, even if a minority of the examples they make have fatal flaws. I've had two stanley planes of new manufacture - a 60 1/2 block plane (the contractor type) and a #5 with plastic handles and they didn't inspire but both were perfectly capable (not endorsing anyone buy one, but i f you have one already....)

[Jim Koepke]

I'm getting back into woodworking after a few years absence. I don't have much money, so buying lots of books and beautiful planes is not an option.

I'm hoping for some advice on choosing some basic planes. I'm a weekend warrior and I'll continue to use a my powered planer, jointer, router. My goal is to use hand planes to fit, finish and adjust after initial work with the power tools. Today I have a 6 /14" stanley "contractor" block plane and a 9 3/4" contractor bench plane. I get some use from the block plane but mostly for chamfering an edge. The bench plane just sits and collects dust. The good news is that I don't have $75 invested in the set, so I probably got my money's worth...

While neither are very good quality, I did take the time to flatten the soles and sharpen the irons. Even if they are not wonderful, I figured they ought to be serviceable. The block plane clearly needs sharpened and I'll check and resharpen the bench plane at the same time. I'm pretty sure I can handle that much but that's the extent of my knowledge. I don't really know how to use these effectively, how to set the blades, frog or mouth. I don't really understand how to correctly apply the tool to the workpiece. However, watching a number of videos and watching how the woodworker moved has helped a bit already.

So my advice request has 3 parts.

1) How to I use these two planes? What exercises can I do to practice and learn?
Free resources are best, but I'm willing to buy a book or vid if it's really useful.
2) If you could only choose 2 planes, Is a block plane and a 10" plane the right styles?
Not my specific set, but in general are these the best core planes?
3) Would I get significantly better results from a higher quality pair of planes?
If so, are there alternatives less expensive than the LN range?

Bonus question for my wish list. For regularly working with M&T joints, what specialty planes are really useful but not super expensive?

Thanks in advance

-Dan

Dan,

Welcome to the cave beside the Creek. At the top of the page for the Neanderthal Haven conference is Neanderthal Haven Announcements. Inside is a section Neanderthal wisdom/FAQs. Check section 4, it has a few helpful posts on using hand planes. There is a lot of good reading in this archival asset.

Since you are using your hand planes to complement power tools the two you have should be fine for many of the tasks of smoothing rough areas left by the power tools. The majority of my bench planes were less than $30. The results they produce is for all intent and purposes as good as what a new LV or LN plane will produce.

For M&T joinery there are many opinions. Some would suggest a shoulder plane. Most shoulder planes, even used, are in the expensive range for most of us. Some would suggest a router plane. Router planes can be had at a lower cost, especially if bought used. It is also not a hard task for one to make their own router planes.

One thing to consider is the versatility of the plane. A shoulder plane is a type of rabbet plane with one area of work at which it shines. It can be put into service for some other tasks, but does have some limitations. A standard router plane can be used for trimming the cheeks of a tenon, cleaning the bottom of a mortise, making dados and many other tasks.

Here is one made by a member just for tenon trimming:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?36807-Tenon-Router

If you go to yard sales, flea markets and such you may want to keep your eyes open for a good #5 jack plane. They can be useful to knock down the cupping on a board before sending them through a powered planer.

jtk

[steven c newman]

Seems there is another useful plane for tenon work, and can even make a few all on it's own. 267497267498used with the spur, and the fence. Or, take them off, lay the plane on it's milled sides as a shouldler plane.

Mine is a Wards clone of a Stanley #78. Cheap and still being made today. Mine was around $16 or so.. Many uses for this little plane....

A number five sized jack plane was made in the millions by Stanley and others. Most will run about $20 or so for better ones.

[Adam Cruea]

I would say the bench and block planes that you have will suffice. Like Jim, I'd suggest keeping your eye open at garage sales, flea markets, and maybe even antique shops for a #5 (or an improperly priced 605) jack plane.

Beyond that, like David says, with chisels you can get tenon cheeks and mortises looking nice. You don't "need" a plane for that, just a saw that will track well if you're going to be using a handsaw. I used a little LV carcase rip saw for the 4" deep tenons on my workbench. . .the saw plate is only 2 3/8" deep, so to finish off the tenon, after sawing the shoulder, I popped a chisel in the kerf for the cheek and gave it a good rap. Use a 1" wide or 1 1/4 inch wide chisel to pare down what little waste is left.

And honestly, who cares what a tenon looks like unless it's a through tenon. It's going to be hidden. :)

In a nice list:

1) Try taking fluffy, hair-thin (or thinner) shavings using both planes. Then switch to taking as thick of a shaving as possible. Doing this, you can find the limits of yourself and use of the plane to find out where you can start and stop using power tools. You'll learn how to adjust the planes, too. I just learned by good ol' common sense, no reading involved.
2) I would either take the bench plane and block plane you have, or possibly swap them for a #4 and #5, possibly getting a spare cap/iron for the #5. One with the chip breaker set back for "hogging", the other with the chip breaker set closer to the edge for more smoothing, then leave the chip break close to the edge in the #4 for just smoothing and removing power tooling marks. My #4 is small enough I used that for chamfering before I decided to buy a LN 60 1/2.
3) I seriously doubt it. While I was up in Maine this year I stopped by Lie-Nielsen to play. The only difference I could tell between their planes and the Baileys I have are that the LN ones are shiny, a little heavier, have thicker blades and "improved" chip breakers, and their adjustments have tighter tolerances. In my opinion, there's nothing wrong with hitting Fleabay, garage sales, antique shops, or estate sales for old planes and hand saws.

I will tell you, if you want to use your hand planes well. . .learn to sharpen them well. There's a plethora of information out there about this.

[David Weaver]

And honestly, who cares what a tenon looks like unless it's a through tenon.


Yeah, and unless we're talking about wedged shop furniture (like for knock down benches), a through tenon just shows the ugly side of the wood, anyway. It's sort of like if you designed jeans so that the zipper was sewed onto the crotch flap instead of under it.

A decent dovetail saw is a good place to start for all but bench and bed sized tenons, though, and LV's has some relaxed rake on it that would allow it to work well for crosscutting until a specific crosscut saw and bigger tenon saw could be afforded.

[Curt Putnam]

Watch the LN videos on Utube
Your smooth plane should be capable, when sharp, of taking savings down to about 0.001" when measured with calipers. The block plane should do slightly better. When you are able to set down to this level and get shavings that float down when dropped, you've done all you need to. Just go to work. Depending, you might want to camber your smooth plane iron just a little. More expensive planes are prettier and work as they should right out of the box. That tells you what "right" is. They are also easier to adjust. But it's the edge of the iron that produces the result and that good result can come from an old but very sharp iron residing in an old & rusty plane.

When you find that you can't do something - that's the signal to consider if a new tool should be considered.

[Adam Cruea]

A decent dovetail saw is a good place to start for all but bench and bed sized tenons, though, and LV's has some relaxed rake on it that would allow it to work well for crosscutting until a specific crosscut saw and bigger tenon saw could be afforded.

I will second that. Their little saw lasted me about 3 years and was a much cheaper alternative to the BadAxe I just got. Great, great learner saw, and that 20 TPI one is one hungry little feller when it comes to hardwoods if only one is an option.

Though for $112, the pair of saws is more than sufficient for everything I've ran into and quite nice. The molded spine is a little funky to get used to because you want to *think* it would be flimsy, but it's nicely designed, though the 20 TPI can actually crosscut wood and leave a decent finish.


Yeah, and unless we're talking about wedged shop furniture (like for knock down benches), a through tenon just shows the ugly side of the wood, anyway. It's sort of like if you designed jeans so that the zipper was sewed onto the crotch flap instead of under it.

End grain needs love too, dude. :(

Though sometimes, I wish that the zipper were sewn out a little farther. I'll just say I only try to wear button fly now because of a couple of unfortunate zipper malfunctions/mishaps. (Think Franks and Beans). :(

[Bill Houghton]

Singing the song, again: your local library has books on woodworking, some focused entirely on hand tool use. Get a library card, if you don't have one, check out as many of the books as look interesting, and read them. This will give you a good, organized, coherent approach.

One note: as a general rule, I've found, older books are better, because they're more likely to have been written by someone who actually used them regularly.

[Hilton Ralphs]

I'd say watch some Paul Sellers videos on Youtube. They are pretty useful and geared towards the no frills aspect of woodworking.

[Prashun Patel]

Practice.
If u can make it to a lie nielsen tool event or a woodcraft or rockler, go try a tuner #9 and a tuned block. That will show you what to strive for in your device. A lot of mediocre planes can perform very well with a new blade if the ones you have are beyond rehab.

Given that you have a jointer and planer you dont really need a
larger plane.

It is hard to tweak a tenon with a nlock plane because the blade doesnt go to the cheek. The biggest bang for the buck is a good chisel here. A shoulder plane or rabbet plane are nice to have but
not critical. Floats or rasps are a secret weapon but a chisel will be more versatile if u are on a budget.

Sharpening and using planes is like playing an instrument. You just have to practice. When u encounter specific problems, post them here with a picture. You can learn way more than any book with the generous advice from the others here.

[Chris Hachet]

Yeah, and unless we're talking about wedged shop furniture (like for knock down benches), a through tenon just shows the ugly side of the wood, anyway. It's sort of like if you designed jeans so that the zipper was sewed onto the crotch flap instead of under it.

A decent dovetail saw is a good place to start for all but bench and bed sized tenons, though, and LV's has some relaxed rake on it that would allow it to work well for crosscutting until a specific crosscut saw and bigger tenon saw could be afforded. I would second the LV saw, I have the LV carcass crosscut saw, and it does wonders for an $80 saw. My $125 LN Dovetail saw is nicer, Bad Axe is nicer yet, but the LV saws are 93% of the performance of a much more expensive saw for a whole lot less money.

[Daniel Rode]

Thank you to everyone for the many responses. I have a lot to read through!

[Daniel Rode]

I've never heard of a tuner #9 or a tuned block. What are these?


Practice.
If u can make it to a lie nielsen tool event or a woodcraft or rockler, go try a tuner #9 and a tuned block. That will show you what to strive for in your device. A lot of mediocre planes can perform very well with a new blade if the ones you have are beyond rehab.

[Prashun Patel]

sorry, fat fingers. I meant a tuned #9 or a tuned block. By 'tuned' I just mean sharpened and flattened and adjusted so that it cuts well. When set properly, those LN planes cut like a dream. Once you see and feel that, it's easier to assess your own plane and its potential for rehabilitation.

[Chris Hachet]

Thank you to everyone for the many responses. I have a lot to read through!...and good luck to you sir. It took me a lot of practice, but good planning will cut your sanding down to almost nothing.

[Daniel Rode]

I'm sure the LN planes are amazing. For what they cost the better be :)


sorry, fat fingers. I meant a tuned #9 or a tuned block. By 'tuned' I just mean sharpened and flattened and adjusted so that it cuts well. When set properly, those LN planes cut like a dream. Once you see and feel that, it's easier to assess your own plane and its potential for rehabilitation.

[Bill Haumann]

if you want to use your hand planes well. . .learn to sharpen them well.

+1

Any plane you get will need to be sharpened.
Sharp chisels will do a lot more with more confidence, so less planes "needed."
Go to a LN event or woodworking show and use the planes to see what they can do when they are properly set up so you know what to shoot for.

[Chris Hachet]

I've never heard of a tuner #9 or a tuned block. What are these? Perhaps a Tuner #9 is like a tuner Honda from the Fast and furious...a wing and a loud exhaust perhaps?

[Chris Hachet]

I'm sure the LN planes are amazing. For what they cost the better be :)Where in Ohio are you, Daniel? I live in Columbus, and I have a large selection of basic cheap hand planes I have tuned up to work pretty well, if you want to take any for a "Test Drive" I would be more than happy.

[Jim Koepke]

I'm sure the LN planes are amazing. For what they cost the better be :)

There are some very fine features in the planes offered by both LN and LV.

My simple way of addressing this is they are for people who have more money than time. For me having more time has allowed me the joy of hunting down old planes, cleaning them up and then putting them to work.

Of course that is a very simplistic view. The LN planes have fine machining over the whole manufacturing process. One comment that is often made when comparing them to an old Stanley plane is the depth adjustment. The old Stanley planes have quite a bit of backlash between the blade going deeper and being retracted. This bothers some folks. On my one LN bench plane, it takes me getting a feel for having zero backlash when adjusting the blade depth.

Having never handled a plane from LV my understanding of them can only be from what others have commented. They are at the pinnacle of modern day plane making. With features that the owners of these fine tools appreciate.

A person who is making a living working wood might be better off with either of these maker's planes instead of taking the time to hunt down and then rehabilitate an old used plane from the wild. A feature on the LV planes might save a few minutes compared to those of the LN planes when changing or sharpening blades. For some, time is money.

Another influence for many is a desire to keep things simple by taking a minimalist approach. This does help keep one's shop neat by not having tools cluttering every space available. My approach is almost the opposite of this. Being a collector at heart having more tools than are needed seems to be my way. Though over the years my desire to collect has been squelched. Tools are more enjoyable to use than to collect.

With patience and a little skill with cleaning metal one can acquire a fine set of user tools at a low cost.

People will look at your results and will not consider where your tools were bought.

jtk

[Jim Koepke]

Isn't there an Australian tool company named Turner?

jtk

[Adam Cruea]

There are some very fine features in the planes offered by both LN and LV.

My simple way of addressing this is they are for people who have more money than time. For me having more time has allowed me the joy of hunting down old planes, cleaning them up and then putting them to work.

Of course that is a very simplistic view. The LN planes have fine machining over the whole manufacturing process. One comment that is often made when comparing them to an old Stanley plane is the depth adjustment. The old Stanley planes have quite a bit of backlash between the blade going deeper and being retracted. This bothers some folks. On my one LN bench plane, it takes me getting a feel for having zero backlash when adjusting the blade depth.

Having never handled a plane from LV my understanding of them can only be from what others have commented. They are at the pinnacle of modern day plane making. With features that the owners of these fine tools appreciate.

A person who is making a living working wood might be better off with either of these maker's planes instead of taking the time to hunt down and then rehabilitate an old used plane from the wild. A feature on the LV planes might save a few minutes compared to those of the LN planes when changing or sharpening blades. For some, time is money.

Another influence for many is a desire to keep things simple by taking a minimalist approach. This does help keep one's shop neat by not having tools cluttering every space available. My approach is almost the opposite of this. Being a collector at heart having more tools than are needed seems to be my way. Though over the years my desire to collect has been squelched. Tools are more enjoyable to use than to collect.

With patience and a little skill with cleaning metal one can acquire a fine set of user tools at a low cost.

People will look at your results and will not consider where your tools were bought.

jtk

Truth be told, you can find planes from Stanley/Bailey/Bedrock planes that are fine users right off the shelf. It may take a little time, but these can be found for far less than a LN or LV.

However, there will be backlash on the adjuster. That is just a hard fact. I will second Jim's opinion and say that cleaning and tuning a plane can be very rewarding. For me, seeing the brass shine after cleaning and feeling a gunk-free tote was worth the effort.

[Daniel Rode]

Thanks Chris!
I'm in NE Ohio not too far from Cleveland and Akron. I've been to Columbus many times bit it's about 150 miles from home, so not a quick trip.

Where in Ohio are you, Daniel? I live in Columbus, and I have a large selection of basic cheap hand planes I have tuned up to work pretty well, if you want to take any for a "Test Drive" I would be more than happy.

[Daniel Rode]

I'd say watch some Paul Sellers videos on Youtube. They are pretty useful and geared towards the no frills aspect of woodworking.

The Paul Sellers videos and blog posts have been excellent. Thanks!