Bench Grinder Heaven

[David Wadstrup]

After an incredible amount of deliberation, I recently purchased my first powered grinder. I had spent literally months pouring over the various sharpening posts here, trying to figure out which set-up would work best for me. You know... the Tormek vs. dry grinder vs. WorkSharp vs. fill-in-the-blank debate. In the end, I went the dry grinder route. But the one I bought is not your typical dry grinder. Not by a long shot.

A small company called Toycen Industries recently began making a best-of-all-worlds bench grinder they call the Tradesman (http://www.cuttermasters.com/portfolio/tradesman-dc/). It features an incredibly quiet, variable speed DC motor with the option of either 6" or 8", 1.25" wide CBN wheels(I went for the 8".) Because it's so new, I had a really tough time finding reviews and feedback about it on the internet. And given the steepness of its price tag, and that the machine sounded almost too good to be true, I was nervous and unsure about buying it. Which is why I'm writing this post today. I wanted to post my experience for those people who might be looking for unbiased feedback. So they'd feel a little less in the dark than I did.

Anyway, I LOVE this thing. It really is the best of all worlds! I love the quietness. I love the fact that it runs incredibly smoothly, with no vibration. I love that it's maintenance free -- no wheels to dress, true, balance, etc. I love that it doesn't spit out the dust that other kinds of dry grinder wheels do. I love that I don't have to worry about the wheels fracturing. I love that I can remove more metal faster by running it at a higher speed during initial grinding, and then slow it down to take the grind all the way to the edge without fear of overheating the blade. I love that it is made by a small, North American company with all of its parts made here in North America. I love how helpful the guys behind the machine have been(believe me, I threw at least a hundred and one questions at them over the course of a few weeks.) I love that this machine seems like it'll last a lifetime. The only thing I didn't love was the tool rests. So I took them off and replaced them with a couple of OneWay rests(they are the stoutest I could find, with absolutely no flex in them.)

I guess that's everything I have to say. I couldn't be happier about my decision to take the plunge with this machine, and I hope someone out there finds this mini "review"/tool gloat helpful. If it's a tool you've been considering, feel free to get in touch with me with any questions you might have. And, just for the record, I have absolutely no affiliation with the maker of this machine.


267474 267475 267476

Best,

David

[Chris Griggs]

That's an incredible looking piece of machinery. You should shoot a video of it in action.

[David Weaver]

That is a serious piece of machinery, and a serious "neener" post.

And I'll bet that the quality will never get better than the early ones.

[David Weaver]

The turners downstairs can probably give a good idea of the life of CBN wheels, though i don't know that I'd trust their advice on coolness of the wheels since they use a lot of HSS (that's something you can figure out on your own, anyway).

I've heard good things about them, but my grinder gets used for too much beat-around stuff.

I do like that unit, even if for no other reason than when the guy's running it, it's making no noise at all until he sticks something against it. It's hard to not appreciate finely made gear like that.

[George Beck]

Thanks for sharing this. I was just on the phone with Jeff Toycen. I sent him some scrapped planner knives to play with(HSS). The tradesman grinder can also accept all Tormek accessories so it may be useful in sharpening HSS planer knives and scissors and such, which is my interest. I like the idea of the Tormek but it can be slow and the wheel needs constant attention to keep it true if your using jigs, such as planner knives. Ron Hock reviewed the tool on his sharpening blog http://hocktools.wordpress.com

[David Weaver]

I am kind of surprised that nobody has made a knock-off wheel for the tormek that is just a round electroplate 200 grit diamond hone on a cheap cast pot metal wheel. I'd have figured someone would've brought such a thing about from somewhere in the third world.

[David Barnett]

I am kind of surprised that nobody has made a knock-off wheel for the tormek that is just a round electroplate 200 grit diamond hone on a cheap cast pot metal wheel.

For all its advantages, there are problems using dry diamond and CBN wheels of this type on steels which is why you don't often see these in the home shop or small production environments such as Larry Williams' Old Street Tool. Needless to say, crowning the rims is challenging, too. :)

[Chris Vandiver]

It will be interesting to hear how the CBN coated wheels hold up in use(manufacturers claims aside)over time. Does the CBN coating break down and become dull(like daimond stones)or does the coating stay sharp and crisp for a long period of time? Looks like a great grinder, that's for sure.

[David Weaver]

For all its advantages, there are problems with using diamond and CBN wheels of this type on steels, which is why you don't see more of these or diamond discs used for dry grinding and sharpening other than for gravers, and so on. Needless to say, the crowning the rims is a challenge, too. :)

Yes, definitely problems for high speed diamonds. I'll bet they'd work pretty well going through a water bath at 90 rpm on a tormek, though. I see your point about crowning the rims, though. I can imagine the chinese could make wheels that would have a hollow surface and be totally usless. Plus, they'd have to do a precision job on the hole in the center of the wheel so that it has a grip on the tormek arbor.

[David Barnett]

Yes, definitely problems for high speed diamonds.

Not so much high speed as the wrong speed, so variable speed is a must as getting this wrong can wreak hell on the wheels, pulling loose the abrasive media. For casual or day-to-day grinding of woodworking tools in a non-production environment, I find older technologies more forgiving. And for those who might assume I simply don't like superabrasives—I've used a lot of electrobond abrasives and love the stuff. For gravers, sure. For drills, endmills, some tool bits, okay. For hard materials other than steels, absolutely. For woodworking tools, not so much.

The idea's worth exploring and developing, of course, and I will be eager to learn if this company's found solutions with which I'm unfamiliar. Didn't know the obstacles had been overcome, but then I don't know a lot of things.

[David Weaver]

Ditto on the old technologies. I still am using brown al-ox wheels on a high speed 6" grinder. It's definitely my favorite thing to use, and the brown wheels are slightly better than gray while still adhering to my cheapness.

[george wilson]

David Weaver,you ought to get a 36 and an 80 grit
white wheel for your grinder. You'd never go back to the old wheels. And,don't buy those cheap Camel brand wheels. Get Norton. The camel wheels I have used did not last too long. Too soft. That was years ago. Are they better now?

I have a 200 RPM vertical/horizontal flat disc grinder. I sharpened a steel knife and a white ceramic kitchen knife on it today. Started with a 260 grit,and finished with a 1200 grit. Plenty sharp enough for food. The Ceramic wheel was literally razor sharp when I got it. I am not going to bother to get it that sharp,though I have the means. By now I've resharpened it several times.

[Prashun Patel]

I have a cbn on my grinder and a diamond plate wheel on my worksharp. Ive used them both on plane and chisel blades. The cbn i have had for about 2 years. I shapen gouges primarily on it (hss). It is as good as the first day.

My diamond ws plate is new but it is great too. They are both very aggressive, so you uhave to use a light touch. However this also means less time on the steel so for an impatient guy like me it means i dont overheat.

Everyone says diamond is for carbide and cbn for hss but both work ok for me on hss and lower carbon steel. YMMV.

How slow does your grinder go? Slower is yor friend w these wheels.

[Prashun Patel]

I hope you have a lathe because it would be a sin to have that set up and not to carress a bowl gouge with it.

[David Barnett]

CBN's great on HSS steel, but I wouldn't want to hog off large amounts with it, such as starting from scratch on a bar of M4. For sharpening and light regrinding, though, for honing thin section gouges with a feathering touch, that works. And if one considers diamond wheels consumables and can work them into routine grinding of carbides and ceramics, I certainly think that's a viable way to go.

For grinding hardened steels on diamond discs, such as HSS alloys which most engravers routinely sharpen dry, I use at least a water drip, but that's because my faceter's made by the same company that makes those dry horizontal disc grinders for engravers.

I suppose I'm just dubious of gains for the average hobby woodworker or tool maker, but that just me, maybe.

[dan sherman]

Everyone says diamond is for carbide and cbn for hss but both work ok for me on hss and lower carbon steel. YMMV.
.

They say that for a very specific reason. If the point of contact between the diamond and the metal reaches a certain temperature, carbon atoms will migrate from the diamond to the steel. At low SFPM(bench stones etc) it's normally not a problem, but at bench grinder speeds its a good way to ruin a wheel.

[george wilson]

I'll grind off the metal mass on my belt grinder. Might use the diamond discs to get a keen enough edge with accurate geometry.

[David Barnett]

If the point of contact between the diamond and the metal reaches a certain temperature, carbon atoms will migrate from the diamond to the steel.

Which is the polite way of saying diamonds revert to graphitic carbon and jump ship.

[Prashun Patel]

Aha. Good thing the diamond discs are cheap then. But i digress since thats only applicable for the worksharp.

[David Barnett]

Aha. Good thing the diamond discs are cheap then. But i digress since thats only applicable for the worksharp.


Right. $8.50 dollars for 6" diamond discs (http://stores.ebay.com/THK-Diamond-Tools/Diamond-Flat-Lap-Disc-/_i.html?_fsub=3920503013&_sid=7691413&_trksid=p4634.c0.m322) with cheap shipping isn't apt to break the bank like DMT discs. How do they get away with that? Lots of grit choices—3000 is great for bringing an edge to the polishing stage—and these hold up really well. I use them for faceting and that's a lot more demanding than sharpening.

[Ron Bontz]

Looks like a good grinder for my 10V Thompson Lathe tools. :) Thanks for posting.

[Chris Fournier]

In the metal shop I use CBN and diamond for carbide tooling. For HHS I use aluminum oxide - 46 grit, cheap and very effective. Why spend more than you have to to get quick efficient results?

[David Weaver]

David Weaver,you ought to get a 36 and an 80 grit
white wheel for your grinder. You'd never go back to the old wheels. And,don't buy those cheap Camel brand wheels. Get Norton. The camel wheels I have used did not last too long. Too soft. That was years ago. Are they better now?

I have a 200 RPM vertical/horizontal flat disc grinder. I sharpened a steel knife and a white ceramic kitchen knife on it today. Started with a 260 grit,and finished with a 1200 grit. Plenty sharp enough for food. The Ceramic wheel was literally razor sharp when I got it. I am not going to bother to get it that sharp,though I have the means. By now I've resharpened it several times.

I think I have an 80 grit (it might be 100) norton white wheel somewhere, but i just looked again today and previously also and have had a hard time finding a coarse grit white wheels below about 60 grit for a 6" baldor (the arbor hole is 1/2"). Last I looked, I could find a wheel, but bushings were separate and it brought the total take up to about the same price as a norton 3x wheel shipped.

I do like the brown al-ox wheels that mcmaster carr sells. They are fairly hard, but not total junk like the $7 wheels at home depot, and they came with appropriate bushings for my grinder. They were about $18 per IIRC.

[george wilson]

36 or 46 grit is fine for the coarse wheels. You'll find they cut a lot faster than the 80 grit. dress them with a singled point diamond mounted in a 6" long steel handle. Diamond gets a wheel much sharper than a star wheel. Star wheel is good for making the stone face flat.

[David Weaver]

I've been using a T diamond tool on the 46 grit al-ox wheels from mcmaster. IT works pretty well, just have to use it once every few tools for about 2 seconds. I'll have to check my arbors and see if I have room for a 1" wheel on the baldor grinder, maybe that would make it easier to find the coarse white wheels.

TFWW has 3x wheels for not too much, but they don't have the harder 46 grit wheel which is what I'd rather have. I'd rather grade the surface of the wheel from time to time than have it be too friable. I believe the wheels I have from mcmaster are N or O hardness, so they are definitely hard. the 3x wheels are I (soft) or K (hard) hardness.

The only thing the brown al-ox wheels struggles on is doing much grinding on the muji irons or a very thick A2 iron (shepherd made a very hard to grind iron for my panel plane, but the resistance to grinding did not equate to durability at the edge for some reason). The heat doesn't matter much on the muji irons, though, they're some kind of HSS.

[Chris Griggs]

I've often heard what David says about those blue wheels being to friable. I use the hard gray or brown al-ox wheels as well, dressed with one of those t-shaped diamond dressers.

I quite like the white wheels. The ones I've used were fast cutting and fairly cool even at 80 grit w/o being too friable. But I never see coarse white wheels anywhere. I'd love to find one in 36 or 46.

[David Weaver]

I bought an I hardness white wheel cheap a while ago, but ended up just throwing it away as it was an oddball size hole and I couldn't find a bushing. I only paid something like 7 bucks for it.

Speaking of prices, though, just looked up the baldor 632e to try to find out what the max wheel size is and it's up to about $450 shipped (!!!)

When I got mine, baldor was drop shipping them for some internet company and mine was $310 shipped. that wasn't long ago, either. I wonder if the swiss company who bought them decided to change the pricing scheme..I wouldn't buy it at $450, there's just not enough difference between it and a decent import grinder, and unless you buy one from joel, the wheels they come with are about the cheapest wheels you can find, and the flanges are very inaccurately cast cheap flanges, not really what you'd expect from them.

[Chris Hachet]

The turners downstairs can probably give a good idea of the life of CBN wheels, though i don't know that I'd trust their advice on coolness of the wheels since they use a lot of HSS (that's something you can figure out on your own, anyway).

I've heard good things about them, but my grinder gets used for too much beat-around stuff.

I do like that unit, even if for no other reason than when the guy's running it, it's making no noise at all until he sticks something against it. It's hard to not appreciate finely made gear like that. Indeed, looks like a sweet piece.

[Chris Hachet]

Looks like a great grinder however, as I am going to be challenged to come up with the cash for a Tormek, coming up with the scratch for this would be a herculean task for me.

[David Weaver]

Yeah, it's not really in the cards as an average woodworker's needs.

Chris, your needs can easily be filled by an import dry grinder of the type that Chris Griggs has. At the very worst, an extra $70 on one-way's wheel balancing system would make the whole thing with premium wheels to replace stock cost about $200, and you'd never have to fart around with water or a diamond truing tool.

[george wilson]

David W. All you have to do is Google 36 grit 6" white grinding wheels. I found a slew of them. If you need a bushing I can make you one,though I think you can get what you need for a 1/2" arbor. I always have.

[David Weaver]

David W. All you have to do is Google 36 grit 6" white grinding wheels. I found a slew of them. If you need a bushing I can make you one,though I think you can get what you need for a 1/2" arbor. I always have.

All of the links that I get seem to pass through to white wheels that are higher grit then, or gray wheels that are 36 grit (as in, they come up with the search, but then you get a bait and switch with the link).

[george wilson]

Try again.Google exactly what I did. I found them easily. Don't worry about hole size. I'll make you a bushing.

[David Weaver]

It's not been my week so far. Google doesn't give me any good options, just some camel blue wheels for $40. If you can get a specific link to a store and it's not $60 or something for one small wheel, I'll purchase it just for curiosity's sake.

Or I'll go hunt down a Norton 3X K hardness wheel.

(it's funny that when I copy your text and google it, one of the first results I get is this thread!! Google's tentacles reach far and wide and fast).

[Chris Griggs]

Yeah, it's not really in the cards as an average woodworker's needs.

Chris, your needs can easily be filled by an import dry grinder of the type that Chris Griggs has. At the very worst, an extra $70 on one-way's wheel balancing system would make the whole thing with premium wheels to replace stock cost about $200, and you'd never have to fart around with water or a diamond truing tool.

For others reference I have this guy (http://www.lowes.com/pd_78808-46069-PCB525BG_0__?productId=3162491&Ntt=grinder&pl=1&currentURL=%3FNtt%3Dgrinder&facetInfo=). One of the best $80 I ever spent on woodworking. I've never had any other grinder so I can't make a comparison, but all I can say is that this guy has done the job I need since admirably since the day I got it. I never even invested in a wheel balance or after market tool rest. I just filed the teeth of the adjuster for the rest that came with it and its been just fine.

...that's wierd. Google isn't giving me anything either I copied and pasted "36 grit 6" white grinding wheels" into the search engine but the coarsest I'm finding is 60 :(

[george wilson]

David,I don't know how to post links. I have an Apple in case you try to instruct me.

[Chris Griggs]

David,I don't know how to post links. I have an Apple in case you try to instruct me.

George. It should be pretty much that same on a mac or pc. All you need to do is highlight the entire web address of the site you want, and copy it (so on a Mac command and "c"). Then click the little icon in the reply box that has an earth with a chain link on it. Finally just paste (command V) what you copied into the URL box and hit ok.

[David Weaver]

It could be that I've done something in the past to screw up what google gives me, as in they think based on my search history, I should see something else.

Navigating around, I see that LV has the K grit 6" 3/4" wide wheels. I'll just wait until the next time they have free shipping, as it drives me a little nutty to buy a ton of $40 things and pay a quarter or a third of their price each time to ship them.

Of course, if Rob sees that I set that, he'll probably change the spending hurdle to $42 since the wheel is $41.50. :eek:

[george wilson]

Woodworker's Supply has them for $39.95. They are Camel brand. They should be o.k.,though I prefer a Norton.

[David Weaver]

Yeah, I saw that from them. They end up being more than a 3x wheel once shipping is added, though, so I'll just default back to the K hardness 3x wheel instead. Or by the time I can get a deal on shipping, I'll forget and just keep using the brown Al ox wheel (which really is a good step or two better than the $7 gray wheels, as long as you have a diamond grader to keep it nice).

[Chris Griggs]

Something is wrong with me. All I can find are these 36 grit pink wheels (http://woodworker.com/6x34x1-pink-aluminum-oxide-60-grit-wheel-mssu-105-740.asp). Only $11, but only 2 on hand. What's the story with these?

[David Weaver]

I don't know what the story was, but the story is now that they are being shipped to my door.

If you were pining for one and they turn out to be good, I'll let you know and send one to you.

[dan sherman]

David Weaver,you ought to get a 36 and an 80 grit
white wheel for your grinder. You'd never go back to the old wheels. And,don't buy those cheap Camel brand wheels. Get Norton. The camel wheels I have used did not last too long. Too soft. That was years ago. Are they better now?

I've used both in recent years, and as long as you compare wheels of like hardness, and like construction they are almost identical in my eyes.
The only difference I've noticed is that Norton's make my bank account balance smaller.



Yeah, I saw that from them. They end up being more than a 3x wheel once shipping is added, though, so I'll just default back to the K hardness 3x wheel instead.
Enco has free shipping on orders over 25$ through tomorrow. What I do is buy 7" surface grinder wheels and use them on my 6" grinder. They are rated for rpm's higher than my grinder can run, and they just fit inside the safety shroud.

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRHM (http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRHM)

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRAR?PMSECT=0000000168

[Chris Griggs]

I don't know what the story was, but the story is now that they are being shipped to my door.

If you were pining for one and they turn out to be good, I'll let you know and send one to you.

LOL. Your too funny. I thought that might happen when I posted that link. Since they're now sold out, I will happily buy one off you if you can stand to part with it, but if you love them and want to hoard both for yourself I'll have no hard feelings. Actually, even if they are only as a good as a brown wheel, I'd still take one for that price. But don't you dare try to use it to finagle getting your washita back :)

[David Weaver]

No, I won't hold them both out on you. Actually, I clicked on your link without fully reading your post and just bought them only to realize you were asking a question (and not offering the link up as a suggestion) when I came back and re-read your post. Sorry about that!

I'll only refuse to send you one if they really suck. I only need one friable wheel, I'd like to keep a hard wheel on the other side of the grinder as I do grind small pointy things from time to time.

[Chris Griggs]

Well that's mighty kind of you David, per usual. I will anxiously await your report. Now the only problem will be finding out where to get more if they turn out to be good.

[David Weaver]

I saw a lot of camel wheels at different places for about $30 per. But it's hard to find specifications on them, most of the straight wheels look like they're intended for surface grinding. Including most of the ceramic alumina and pink alumina wheels.

No worries, I won't be trying to filch the norton no. 1 back. It does remind me of a banjo that I bought. First one I ever bought, I bought from a guy named Bill and every year once or twice a year, Bill would send me an email and ask if I still had his banjo. AT first, he did want to buy it back, he was just checking in on it. Every year, I told him that I had his banjo and wouldn't sell it to anyone else, but after a few years, I got a couple more of them and told bill that I really didn't need his banjo, but still wouldn't sell it unless he wanted to buy it back. The only problem was that some of the bottom dropped out of the banjo market and what was once a $2750 banjo changed to about a $2200 banjo, best I could tell. Bill didn't want to buy it back for what I paid him, and eventually I sold it back to him market price and I kept it in top shape and played a banjo I had made for me instead of his.

... now I send him an email about once every 6 months asking how my banjo is doing :)

Of course, it's not quite the same. Bill had a maker make the banjo specifically for him and it was his first good banjo. I just bought the no 1 off of some guy on ebay.

[Chris Griggs]

Well just for your peace of mind your Pike #1 is doing well. Its living on top of my microwave at the moment, and I just made a little maple box for it last week. On Friday night it got to come out and play to sharpen up a small inexpensive kitchen aid santuko. It plays very well with basic American and German stainless steel knives. My Wustoffs love it. Its not allowed to play with my Shun though, that will only ever see fine water stones, and the factory edge of so killer I haven't even touched that knife to any stone yet.

[David Weaver]

Actually, it would do well with the shun unless the shun is one of the wondersteels. All of my "simple" japanese tools respond well to novaculite stones, which isn't a lot different than the silica abrasives in the japanese stones.

[Chris Griggs]

Its VG10 I believe. I don't know much about it other than its supposedly a fine grained hard stainless and it out the box it was sharper than any knife or tool I had ever purchased new. I don't think it's considered a supers steel ,in fact I think its rather common among the Japanese knives that are marketed in the west, but I don't know how an ark would do on it either. My plan is to make an effort to touch it up on fine stone somewhat regularly and avoid going to anythin medium or coarse grit. Might be interesting to see how my black does on it though...if its a nice hard steel the black should put a nice polish on it without really abrading it.

[David Weaver]

15% chromium, probably would do better with synthetic stones. You could use the black arkansas as a way just to keep the edge straight, it'll probably be a long time before it's dull, anyway.

[Chris Griggs]

Cool. Thanks for the info. I'll give the black a try for basic maintenance. Yeah its seems to be holding its edge really really well. Among the knife crowd I think the Shun is considered a bit to mainstream and mundane, but its hands down the nicest knife I've ever had...put my Wustofs to absolute shame, and I'm quite fond of those in their own right.

[David Weaver]

Actually, it's very similar to 154cm, I guess whether or not it sharpens well will depend on the size of the carbides and how hard it is, might get a pleasant surprise and find it responds well to the black ark (which is a great knife stone, anyway). I have a 154cm pocket knife that seems to sharpen fairly easy given the level of chromium in it.

[Chris Griggs]

Thats what I like so much about my german knives, that the pike and the black combo keeps their edges in tip top shape. They don't stay sharp as long as the Shun but they are pretty darn easy to maintain yet they still hold and edge perfectly well.

[Tony Shea]

David knows his steels. VG10 is very similar to 154cm, VG10 is made in Japan and 154cm is American. I'm not sure why but VG10 is only able to used in Japan for knife making. I have a few pocket knives in 154cm and one in VG10. They both sharpen up relatively hard. I wouldn't bother too much with natural stones on the VG knife unless you just want to experiment a little. The man made waterstones are def going to be your best bet and if you let it go real dull I def would just start with diamonds to get your bevel back in order. I let my everyday carry knife (mini-griptilian 154cm) get way out of wack and could not get it in order on anything but diamonds. I learned my lesson in letting it go too long without a touchup. But the knife is really just a tank in all respects. I use the crap out of it as it is my cheapest knife and it just keeps on going. It has stripped more wire than any other tool I own for the purpose and it just loves it.

But as we all know these steels are only as good as the maker is.

[David Weaver]

I only know 154 cm because I chanced into a knife with it. Bought it about 9 years ago or so before I ever started woodworking, just wanted a US made lockback knife and it happened to be on clearance. I'd bet what you know about sharpening it is better than what I know, though, as I may not have even had good natural stones the last time I sharpened that knife. I should beat it up more.

One thing that's not new, though, which I wouldn't also have known when I first started woodworking, is cryogenically treated stainless steel with fine grains. I don't know how long henckels has been making friodur knives and razors, but they are cryogenically treated 440C or something similar, and they can be sharpened on natural stones. However, I think they are a bit softer than carbon steel razors (i can't prove it, just suspicion from using them) so as to be sharpenable on natural stones, thus the comment about the shun, though I don't know anything at all about shun, either. I only have two japanese knives and they are blue #2, and about 62 hardness. if the shun is 60 or just below in hardness, it may be sharpenable on a wide range of things, but if it is 64 or something, only a natural stone with slurry would cut it and it would still be slow.

As much as I like to play with stones, the recent batches of synthetics really are pretty much functionally superior in every way except maybe hardness.

[Chris Griggs]

That's interesting guys. I'd probably just experiment with it on the black, just because I've seen how a natural stones that doesn't have the ability to sharpen hard steel can still put a nice burnish on it. My shun definitely won't end up in to rough of shape because a) I don't like to use dull kitchen knives, and b) it's really only used as a vegetable knife...its 10" long and its head and shoulders nicer to use than my 8" chef knives and santoku for things like dicing large onions or chopping up big bunches of kale. I've only had it a few months so I tend to baby it still too, my Wustoffs take the brunt of the day-to-day use, and the Shun comes out when the longer thinner blade adds a lot of benefit. The thing cuts like a laser. Anyway, yeah as soon as it stops greasing though things so easily I'll probably touch it my black ark just for giggles but will likely end up sticking it on my finest waterstone.

The funnest knives I've sharpened on arks BTW are the old high carbon steel knives. MY FIL has some old New York deli knives. Nothing fancy, not drop forged or bolstered or anything, but the arks put the slickest edge on them with almost no effort. I always bring my washita and my black with me to the in-laws. My mother in-law isn't to fond of what I do to those knives so I always only hit one or 2, and then show my FIL which ones I put a fresh edge on. He always gets really excited about it, so its fun to do.

[Tony Shea]

My mother in-law isn't to fond of what I do to those knives so I always only hit one or 2, and then show my FIL which ones I put a fresh edge on. He always gets really excited about it, so its fun to do.

Women and sharp knives just don't seem to get along. What's with that anyway?

I agree Chris, it certainly can be very rewarding to have such a nice sharpening setup if nothing else but to impress family and friends by setting up their tools and knives. The one female I know that loves a sharp knife is my grandmother. She has a wonderful set of knives and she loves seeing me come through the door with some stones. But she's also the only female I know in the family that knows how to really use a knife, she is very impressive with sharp steel in her hand at 85 years old. Learned most of my cooking chops thanks to her.

[george wilson]

My wife likes sharp knives. I taught her how to get her leather skiving knives razor sharp when she was first working at the book bindery. They HAD to be razor sharp.

[Chris Griggs]

I got my wife to like sharp knives too. I'm not a great knife sharpener, sometimes I get them really sharp sometimes they're just pretty sharp. When they are just pretty sharp my wife points it out now, and I love that she does.

My MIL on the other hand likes them DULL and DULLER.

I think you have to get used to sharp knives and most people aren't. If you take a razor sharp knife and use it the same way you would use a dull knife you are sure to shed some blood.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

If you take a razor sharp knife and use it the same way you would use a dull knife you are sure to shed some blood.

Despite her best efforts to hide it, I think there's photos of my wife from our wedding that prove that.

[David Weaver]

My wife and my mother have both proved that also. Despite warnings. It is so much easier to learn to use a sharp knife than it is to learn to use a dull knife, though. There is no rhythm with a dull knife.

[Rick Markham]

Super cool David! I wish I would have seen this a few months ago! It's ok I ended up with a Baldor 8100W and a 8"CBN wheel. I can tell you from being a user of the tormek, versus the CBN wheel, it is night and day. You made the right decision! I notice a huge difference in sharpness when it comes to harder tool steels Like CPM 10V the CBN just absolutely excells. Sure makes shaping turning tools and hardened steel super quick. Congrats on your purchase, you made a wise choice. Never having to worry about it being true is amazing in itself. Sure makes sharpening quick and easy when it is always ready :)