Veritas or Lie Nielson Router plane?

[Chris Hachet]

I was thinking Lie Nielson, but the fence system on the Veritas would allow me to plow groves for drawer bottoms in drawer sides, and further relegate my router to it's home on the shelf. Input?

[Tony Wilkins]

Chris, went through this decision recently when I went through my spending spree. The Veritas was universally recommended. I had been planning on getting the Lie-Nielson but Derek and others mentioned several reasons to go the other direction. The two reasons I remember are the better fence and the wider selection/cheaper blades available for the LV.

[Chris Griggs]

What Tony said...

And yes, the LV can do a very respectable job standing in for a dedicated plow as well.

[Chris Hachet]

Probably go with the Veritas...Thanks!

[Derek Cohen]

I was thinking Lie Nielson, but the fence system on the Veritas would allow me to plow groves for drawer bottoms in drawer sides, and further relegate my router to it's home on the shelf. Input?

Hi Chris

As Tony mentioned, I have recommended the Lee Valley over the Lie-Nielsen. Both are excellent router planes, but the LV is the better design. One factor is that the LV has a wider selection of blades. The LN requires an adapter to use the smaller sizes. There is also the excellent fence system on the LV.

One more item is the sharpening of the blades. LV make this easier on the 1/2" size with a shaft that can be unscrewed so as to permit the blade head to be honed like an ordinary, flat blade. A day or so ago I became aware that the LV blades have another advantage over the LN blades. This came up on a Chris Schwarz's blog (http://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/chris-schwarz-blog/a-trickier-ruler-trick-for-router-planes). He posted a new method for honing the LN blades (inventive and clever). I responded with my preferred method for LV (and Stanley, which are similar to LV). Look it up. Anyway, it just confirmed my preference for the LV.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Chris Hachet]

Thanks for the input. It is interesting how the media, printed. And otherwise colors our thinking. After reding Fine Woodworking and other woodworking publications, I kind of thought that Veritas was the unloved sister of the two. The more I talk with actual woodworkers, the more good stuff I hear about LV.

[Shawn Pixley]

Upon Derek's advice, I bought the LV. At the free shipping sale, I ordered different blades. I am a happy man.

[Adam Cruea]

I'll just jump on the bandwagon and say I was up in the air, but I had used a LV router plane before and checked out the LN. I am not unhappy in the least. There are so many more blades for the LV, and not to mention if you get the blades for the original Stanley router plane, they're supposed to work in the LV router plane as well.

One feature I like to point out on the LV router plane that I don't think is on the LN router plane: the LV seems to have a magnetic collar; this keeps the blade from unexpectedly dropping if you loosen the collar too much.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Adam

It is not a magnetic collar, per se, but the blade collar has a curvy washer, which acts as a spring. This maintains some tension on the blade shaft when the collar is loosened and prevents the blade moving (particularly, dropping out!). It does blade adjustment easier and more precise as the blade is reasonably firm in the collar yet free to move.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Adam Cruea]

Hrm, so that's the difference.

I've used my dad's LV router plane, and the washers above and below the collar (where the blade's shank rests) were chrome/stainless; on the one I ordered, they have the coloring of magnets (which is why I thought they were what was keeping the collar pulled back and keeping the blade from pulling back).

Taking the thumbscrew out, I see that the spring mechanism in his was stuck and that's why the blades kept dropping out on me when the collar was loosened. :D

[Bill Fleming]

I love my LN. I like sharing many of the blades with the LN small RP. I have found the LN fence works fine for my needs, but then I also have a LV plow plane when needed.

[Chris Hachet]

I love my LN. I like sharing many of the blades with the LN small RP. I have found the LN fence works fine for my needs, but then I also have a LV plow plane when needed....thanks for the input. Rob is going to get a lot of my spare change in the months ahead. I really love the LV plow plane, think this fall after I get a few other tools bought It will find a place in my shop.

[Chris Fournier]

I don't like the LV aesthetic at all. I don't like how clunky they feel. I have the LV router plane! I don't regret it for one moment! It is the bastard child amongst my LN tools and deservedly so. It is a great tool.

[Mike Cogswell]

Chalk up another LV Router plane user. I bought it primarily for the flexibility of having more blade choices as well as what I perceived to be a better fence. I'm more lukewarm about the LV fence than the rest here - while it works well in many ways the adjusting hardware hangs well below the fence itself, preventing its use on 3/4" stock that is flat on the bench. The adjusting hardware must hang over the edge of the bench, which I frequently find annoying. Other than that nit, I love the LV and have taken advantage of its smaller blades several times.

Like some of you, most of my bench planes are LN, but I still have several LV planes as well. Personally I'm very thankful we have the choice between two excellent companies with such outstanding products and customer service. I think we are fortunate to live in a virtual golden age of woodworking tools.

[Charlie Stanford]

Chalk up another LV Router plane user. I bought it primarily for the flexibility of having more blade choices as well as what I perceived to be a better fence. I'm more lukewarm about the LV fence than the rest here - while it works well in many ways the adjusting hardware hangs well below the fence itself, preventing its use on 3/4" stock that is flat on the bench. The adjusting hardware must hang over the edge of the bench, which I frequently find annoying. Other than that nit, I love the LV and have taken advantage of its smaller blades several times.

Like some of you, most of my bench planes are LN, but I still have several LV planes as well. Personally I'm very thankful we have the choice between two excellent companies with such outstanding products and customer service. I think we are fortunate to live in a virtual golden age of woodworking tools.

Golden Age of Tools? I'd say it's the Golden Age of... well I caught myself, maybe a conversation for another day. While there are tools for other trades shown, better check out the 1938 Marples catalog to keep it all in perspective:

http://www.toolemera.com/bkpdf/MarplesCat1938.pdf

Like to fool around with metal? How about a choice of five different portable forges? They're in there. Eight different drawknives. Close to a dozen adzes I think. Chisels in all sorts of configurations. Ditto replacement plane irons and cap irons. Six different hand-cranked bench drills ("pillar" drills), a half dozen or so hand-cranked grindstones, bunch o' oilstones, replacement saw handles and chisel handles. The list goes on and on.....

[Bruce Mack]

The array of carving gouges is mind boggling. So many skills lost. Thanks Charlie.

[Charlie Stanford]

The array of carving gouges is mind boggling. So many skills lost. Thanks Charlie.

A reminder of what our forebears were capable of:

http://www.ronaldphillipsantiques.com/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=19

[Charlie Stanford]

The array of carving gouges is mind boggling. So many skills lost. Thanks Charlie.

Kind of cool to try to get your head wrapped around how this crisp little lovely from 1775 was designed, laid out, and made:

http://www.ronaldphillipsantiques.com/GEORGE-III-MAHOGANY-ARMCHAIR-DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=6&tabindex=5&objectid=534904&categoryid=1362

Coolest tools in the world wouldn't get 99.9% of us past the first blank sheet of paper staring up at us. I know it wouldn't me.

Wild horses could not keep me from buying every bright, shiny, brass and bronze 'dude' tool in the world if I thought they would give me even a .001% better chance of executing this chair.

[Chris Hachet]

A reminder of what our forebears were capable of:

http://www.ronaldphillipsantiques.com/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=19


I love looking at this stuff, but it is not the kind of stuff I want to live with on a daily basis.

[Chris Hachet]

Chalk up another LV Router plane user. I bought it primarily for the flexibility of having more blade choices as well as what I perceived to be a better fence. I'm more lukewarm about the LV fence than the rest here - while it works well in many ways the adjusting hardware hangs well below the fence itself, preventing its use on 3/4" stock that is flat on the bench. The adjusting hardware must hang over the edge of the bench, which I frequently find annoying. Other than that nit, I love the LV and have taken advantage of its smaller blades several times.

Like some of you, most of my bench planes are LN, but I still have several LV planes as well. Personally I'm very thankful we have the choice between two excellent companies with such outstanding products and customer service. I think we are fortunate to live in a virtual golden age of woodworking tools.


Glad to have another vote of confidence for LV, just sent them my order Friday.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Just browsing through that Marples catalog, a couple things come to mind (besides all Charlie points out) - I wish you could still buy new chisels and gouges without handles, and I wonder where I can get my hands on the "bench or block knife" listed on page 20 (going by the page numbers up top, page 39 by the PDF page numbers) - I've seen one, or something similar, used in a couple videos (I believe one of them was the Swedish spoon and clog making video making the rounds a while back) and it seems like a useful tool.

[Mark Roderick]

That is an awesome catalog, Charles. Thank you for posting.

Look at the names for the tools! Wagonmaker chisel. Coachmaker chisel. Look at the number of gouges - it looks like a different gouge for each 1% of radius! A century after the industrial revolution, it looks as if men were still making a lot of stuff by hand.

[Bill Houghton]

Don't own either one (I have Stanleys), but, last I looked, the Lee Valley was cheaper by a lot.

Were you buying the small router plane - the one that's the size of the Stanley 271 - I'd recommend the LN, because Lee Valley's is not among their best designs.

[Hilton Ralphs]

Were you buying the small router plane - the one that's the size of the Stanley 271 - I'd recommend the LN, because Lee Valley's is not among their best designs.
Au contraire my good fellow. I will concede that the Veritas designed round shaft should have a flat spot to stop the bugger spinning around. However you have to but both Lie-Nielsens at a cost of $160 to get the open and closed mouths that the Veritas offers in one unit at only $55.

Thanks but I'll live with their 'poor design'.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Hilton - I'm Assuming your talking about how the LV plane, you can flip the blade in the body, and use the back of the body as an open mouth design?

On my original look at the LN plane on their website, I was surprised that it didn't seem like you could do that (or at least, there was no mention) but looking at the Craftsman studio page for the LN small router (http://www.craftsmanstudio.com/html_p/A371.htm) it does look like that is an option with that plane as well.

Don't know how well it works in practice with either plane, I don't have any small router planes.

[Don Dorn]

Au contraire my good fellow. I will concede that the Veritas designed round shaft should have a flat spot to stop the bugger spinning around. However you have to but both Lie-Nielsens at a cost of $160 to get the open and closed mouths that the Veritas offers in one unit at only $55.

Thanks but I'll live with their 'poor design'.

I had the small LV router, but the spinning blade caused me to sell it. I replaced it with the Shopfox model which is the same as the LN - and if I ever need to replace the blade, the LN fits it. That said - I've only needed it a couple of times when the dado was close enough that the large wouldn't fit. My large is a LV.

[Hilton Ralphs]

I wonder if one could grind a flat spot on the shaft of the Veritas? It may then need a slightly longer screw though. Alternatively, the miniature version of the big router plane seems to have the square blade which should work better. For routing out hinges it would be useful.

[Mike Henderson]

Don't own either one (I have Stanleys), but, last I looked, the Lee Valley was cheaper by a lot.

Were you buying the small router plane - the one that's the size of the Stanley 271 - I'd recommend the LN, because Lee Valley's is not among their best designs.
In my opinion, neither the LV nor the LN small router planes are good. I owned the LN small router plane and I couldn't lock the blade tight enough without using a screwdriver on it.

Additionally, trying to adjust the height of the blade in small increments is very difficult.

The really small (miniature) LV plane is the best design, but is too small for most use. The blade locks tight and there's a screw adjustment for the blade height so you can make small adjustments when routing out a hinge mortise.

And a (good) small router plane is needed because sometime you have a hinge mortise that is in a tight spot and you just can't get the big router plane in.

Message to Rob Lee - scale up the miniature router plane and give us a small router plane that's usable.

Mike

[Derrell W Sloan]

If you want a small router plane consider the LV miniture
http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=67814&cat=1,230,41182
great blade adjustment mechanism and a depth stop. A serious small plane.

[J. Greg Jones]

I wonder if one could grind a flat spot on the shaft of the Veritas? It may then need a slightly longer screw though.
A flat on the shaft will not work with the small Veritas as the locking screw does not act like a set screw on the shaft. The blade shaft goes inside a round blade clamp, and the screw pulls the clamp into the back of the body of the plane.

[Derek Cohen]

I find the small router planes generally too small to be useful. Just not enough registration area. I have the LV, and it does get used, but rarely. A more useful size is the router plane I rcently posted here in upgraded form. This is nearly the same registration across its width as the Large LV Router plane, but roughly 2/3 the depth and is low profile. While the Large LV is by far the better tool, I find that I often grab my litttle one.

This uses all the blades from the Large.


http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/BuildingaWoodenRouterPlane_html_m5cad628e.jpg

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/BuildingaWoodenRouterPlane.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

[bob blakeborough]

In my opinion, neither the LV nor the LN small router planes are good. I owned the LN small router plane and I couldn't lock the blade tight enough without using a screwdriver on it.

Additionally, trying to adjust the height of the blade in small increments is very difficult.

The really small (miniature) LV plane is the best design, but is too small for most use. The blade locks tight and there's a screw adjustment for the blade height so you can make small adjustments when routing out a hinge mortise.

And a (good) small router plane is needed because sometime you have a hinge mortise that is in a tight spot and you just can't get the big router plane in.

Message to Rob Lee - scale up the miniature router plane and give us a small router plane that's usable.

Mike

I just took a bit of sandpaper to the round post on the blade of the small LV Router and roughed it up a bit and BAM!!! No more twisting... Works great! Nothing a little bit of fettling can't fix.

You are right though, that the micro plane is a pretty sweet little unit!

[Judson Green]

OP has most likely already made his purchase, but you can usually pick up a Stanley (or some other vintage) RP pretty cheep at a flea market or that online site and make your own sub base and fence. Before I made the fence here I was using a square smooth stick and C clamps. After reading Derek's comment I'm thinking of adding a small bump on the sub base either side of the plane.

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[Daniel Hartmann]

I had both and kept the LN. I liked the wider base of the LN. But, I will say the LV felt heavier, better made.

[Chris Hachet]

OP has most likely already made his purchase, but you can usually pick up a Stanley (or some other vintage) RP pretty cheep at a flea market or that online site and make your own sub base and fence. Before I made the fence here I was using a square smooth stick and C clamps. After reading Derek's comment I'm thinking of adding a small bump on the sub base either side of the plane.

268629
268630I have already bought the veritas,but I am really into vintage tools and think a vintage stanley would be great.