Grooving/ drawer bottom plane design question

[Steve Voigt]

Hi All,
I want to make a dedicated 1/4" grooving plane. Main reasons for making, as opposed to buying an ebay cheapie, are that I want a lefty model, and I want the fence to be removable, though probably not adjustable.

For $5, I obtained a nice plow iron, shown below. I'm considering two options:

(1) grind the sides and lop off the top, as indicated by the red lines in the photo. This would in effect create a 1/4" x 6" blade, snecked on top. Then I would build a plane along the lines of Matt Kenny's (http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/19894/shop-made-grooving-planes) or Rob Cosman's (http://www.robcosman.com/tools_planes.php).

(2) Leave the iron as-is and make a skated plane (here's a thread (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?44726-drawer-bottom-plane) where Derek Cohen talks a bit about this type of plane-scroll down to post #4 if you're curious).

So, any thoughts about which plan would be better? I think #1 would probably be a little easier; grinding the blade would be tedious, but I've done it before. And the plane construction is very simple. #2 might be a more permanent option, since a steel skate will never wear out. And it might be a nice intro to making skated planes.
Which option would result in a more stable bed for the blade? I have no experience with plows. And which option would be best for mitigating tear-out? These are my main concerns.
Anyway, if y'all have thoughts, let me know. Thanks!

-Steve
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[David Weaver]

The benefit of the skate is that it allows you to use a variety of widths. You don't need that flexibility since this will be a dedicated plane, and you'd be better off building the type you described in #1. There was a somewhat extensive discussion about this on another forum recently, but due to the policy i guess i can't say where that ways.

I can only suggest that you go to google and search for "Roubo bouvet, 10th tool"

not suggesting you build an open sided type, but the discussion of the skate vs. a dedicated sole for the iron size is had there, and the latter is superior for finish quality of the groove (and is obviously not an option if you want to use various irons).

[Jim Matthews]

If you make all your drawers the same; same dado, same distance from the bottom -
a dedicated plane will make for more consistent alignment, one drawer to the next.

I find that my ECE plow plane works great, but the hand position is uncomfortable.
Less Phroo-fraw in the way would be an improvement.

[Steve Voigt]

Dave, thanks for the lead on that thread; it was easy to find. I didn't know Roubo mentioned that type of plane.
I guess it makes sense that tear out would be worse with a skate, sincr there's less material holdimg the wood down.

[Roy Griggs]

Some months back either PWW or FWW had an article on making dedicated grooving planes. I made a rt hand and a lt hand with 1/4" iron to cut a groove 1/4" from the edge and a 1/4" deep... they are great. No muss, no fuss, no set-up. blades were cut from an old stanley plane blade with a dremel and cut-off wheel. Made the pair in less than a day. With probably 6 or 8 options to make the same groove (#45, #50, etc...) they are what I reach for all the time now.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Steve

My recommendation (that you link to) was made 7 years ago. I must say now I prefer the flexibility of a plough plane. However, if you want a dedicated drawer-bottom plane, Warren posted the Roubo version recently at WC.

http://www.woodcentral.com/webbbs/media/handtools/468/468697_1.jpeg

This plane is a great deal easier to build than either of the two you mention. Plus Warren made the very telling point that its advantage over a plane with a skate is that the blade will have a closed mouth, which will control the wood better.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[David Weaver]

Anything that gets folks building their own simple joinery planes is a plus. Aside from a little bit O1 steel, that plane would essentially be free to make and require nothing but a plow plane (or router table), backsaw and a couple of chisels to make.

[Steve Voigt]

Hi Steve

My recommendation (that you link to) was made 7 years ago. I must say now I prefer the flexibility of a plough plane. However, if you want a dedicated drawer-bottom plane, Warren posted the Roubo version recently at WC.

http://www.woodcentral.com/webbbs/media/handtools/468/468697_1.jpeg

This plane is a great deal easier to build than either of the two you mention. Plus Warren made the very telling point that its advantage over a plane with a skate is that the blade will have a closed mouth, which will control the wood better.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Thanks for this, Derek. I did read that old thread and the more recent "Roubo bouvet" thread during my researches.
I particularly was interested in your comments about the desirability of some leeway in positioning the groove relative to dovetail layout. As a result, I've decided to adopt this design (http://toolemerablog.typepad.com/toolemera/2012/12/a-sargent-269-drawer-bottom-plane.html), posted by Gary Roberts (of Toolemera). While I'm not a huge fan of this type of fence on moving fillisters, I think it will work well in this situation, where the fence is moved infrequently, and within narrow parameters.

-Steve

[Steve Voigt]

Thanks to everyone who weighed in. Thought I'd post some pictures of the finished plane. I made it from what I had on hand--Walnut for the body, Lignum Vitae for the "skate," and Tropical Mystery Wood for the wedge and fence. It has about half an inch of adjustment in positioning the fence, or I can take off the fence completely and just use an external batten. I'm glad I built in this little bit of flexibility.


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I have to say, wow, does this thing work. My favorite feature is how the chips spiral out onto the bench.

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I've done a bunch of test grooves in pine, walnut, and maple, and no tear-out so far. Doesn't seem to matter which direction I go, either.

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It's been a while since I've built anything with drawers, but I've always done the grooves with a router or table saw. Really looking forward to using this instead!
Thanks for looking.

-Steve

[Jim Koepke]

Wow, I have been wanting to build a grooving plane myself, but just keep settling with the #45s or #50 already at hand.

jtk

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Looks great!

[David Weaver]

Very nicely done!