One sided and pointed beveling

[Josh Jackson]

I've looked through the forum and again couldn't find a specific topic on what I was looking for so here it goes. I was just commissioned to engrave a piano finished rosewood box. The design they want calls for filigree but only beveled on the inside of the curls, not the exterior. Or I could get away with beveling both sides but it I'm unsure if you can even make two different angles on the same engraving bevel. I am running an Epilog 35W Helix. Thought's?

[Mike Null]

Josh

I'm a bit baffled by your explanation. Could you explain it a little more fully and explain what you mean by a bevel?

Just for starters, I never do piano finish without doing a paint fill--usually gold.

[Josh Jackson]

Ok Mike, Allow me to back up. A customer ordered one of my piano finish rosewood boxes and gave that golden phrase 'I don't care the cost.' However, the catch is that she wants this design with a bit of beveling (slanted edges) then silver painted/plated. Poor example but the basic idea --> /"\ Epilog has a setting with their printing settings software that allows you to add a bevel for when you cut out rubber stamps. My assumption here is that I can apply this setting/option to other products like this wood project. If I am wrong I am going to have to do multiple light engravings very delicately on this project to get a beveled edge on some of the inner curves of this filigree design, then spend exhausting hours making those tiered cuts smooth into a decent looking bevel.267149 The overall idea she is going for is the edges cut, the inside actually beveled and curved for additional uniqueness. I hope that makes it a little more understandable. Thanks.

[Josh Jackson]

Oh and as you can tell some of this filigree has parts that would require more of a slant than the other side of what I'd engrave, so I'm looking to see if anyone has even come close to tackling something like this.

[Gary Hair]

It seems to me like that would be better served by someone who would hand carve it. Just because all you have is a hammer (laser) doesn't mean everything is a nail...

[Joe Hillmann]

What you are looking at doing doesn't look like it is a job for a laser. That isn't to say it can't be done. Also if you are color filling the bevel will not be seen. If she has her heart set on the engraving being beveled I would send her to someone who does wood carving.

[Jason Hilton]

Am I misunderstanding or does this sound like a job for the 3d setting? You'll have to rebuild the file to create the proper beveling, but if you create the correct gradients where you need bevels it should work.

[Josh Jackson]

Joe and Gary - I agree that this looks more like a wood carving project and I don't mind passing it over to my friend who does it. I just wanted to see if there was a viable option for me before I did.

Jason - If I had a 3d engraver yes, definitely, but I'm 6 months in the business with only a CO2 flat table.

And she doesn't want the grooves filled in she wants the filigree 'coated', as in if I found a raised metal filigree, etch out the area and set the metal piece down into the recess, so the filigree specifically will be colored, not the standard filling the cuts like we do 98% of the time.

[Bill Overturf]

You could do an engraving with a fountain fill. I have done this with some good results. The trick is getting the right shade of grey for the shallow engraved part. It will take some practice but like I said it can be done.

[Jason Hilton]

Josh, I mean using the 3d setting on your epilog to run a variable power etch. Using gradients from black to white to vary the power you can get the one-sided bevel you're looking for. Granted, the file will require some rework to get the beveling, and at 35 you'll have to run a few passes, but price is no object!

[Dave Sheldrake]

From what I can see Joe, the Chinese equivalent would be "Grade Engraving" normally used for rubber stamps and gives a taper from the base to the tip /\ ?

best wishes

Dave

[Joe Hillmann]

Am I misunderstanding or does this sound like a job for the 3d setting? You'll have to rebuild the file to create the proper beveling, but if you create the correct gradients where you need bevels it should work.

The 3d setting would be the way to do it if the artwork was set up for it. Maybe someone with experience with 3d engraving could make it work but for someone who doesn't have much experience with 3d it would take many hours and lots of practice pieces to get the art set up to engrave in 3D. Of course that would be a great way to learn.

[Joe Hillmann]

You could do an engraving with a fountain fill. I have done this with some good results. The trick is getting the right shade of grey for the shallow engraved part. It will take some practice but like I said it can be done.


I don't think the fountain fill would work on that artwork. Fountain fill stretches all the way from one side of a vector shape to the other. First all the dark area would have to be close areas and then when you fill it the large dark areas would have a VERY shallow bevel and the small dark areas would have a much steeper bevel.

[Bruce Volden]

Perhaps I missed something-----how wide is the beveled area? This could be a make or break deal. I have done bevels as wide as 1/2" but the angle of the cut wasn't very "steep". The laser is focused for perpendicular engraving. When I've done engraving I split the focus to be close to the center of the bevel. Worked out OK but to the eye if you looked at the engraving from the angles you could see a very minor difference---again this was on a not so steep cut bevel.

Bruce

[Josh Jackson]

Ok, so is there somewhere you guys can point me to for learning the 3d engraving with my laser? I've done some shading tricks but not actually heard of 3d with the 35W Helix. Apparently you (Jason and Joe) have some experience in this.

Bruce - the bevel does not have to be steep, just enough to make the filigree stand up. Another way to put it is if I really took the time and engraved it a little bigger than supposed to be then did as suggested earlier and use wood working tools to carve the depths and turns. That is what the customer is looking for.

Bill - I am very begrudging against the fountain fill in CorelDraw for the simple fact that it does not follow the lines of the art. I mean for goodness sake the old Microsoft Power points (XP and Millenium) did it. However, the others on here are right. The fountain fill will cause it to ripple like engravings in hardwood.

[Mike Null]

Josh

Now that I have a better understanding of what your customer wants--I don't think there's enough money to do that job with a laser. I'd be looking for a filigree applique at Michael's.

[Joe Hillmann]

Here is a start. I don't really think it will do what you want, if you went from white to black it would bevel down to the center even on both sides. If you could figure out how to shift the center to the side this would actually do what you want, kind of.

http://www.epiloglaser.com/tl_creating_3d_artwork.htm


When using this method make sure you have 3d turned on then the laser sees grays as percent of power that will give you the closest to a bevel. If you don't have 3d turned on the laser will dither the grays which is an interesting effect but not what you are after and very delicate.

Also it works best on woods that don't have grain such as popple or basswood or best of all mdf. Pine is the worst I have ever done. The winter growth leaves such high ridges in the engraving that you can't even tell it is 3d.

Although even with all that you will have to modify your artwork so all the black areas are closed vectors. and if you make the white areas inside the black closed vectors on top of the black you will get something like a one sided bevel. I would suggest you start practicing with squares, rectangles circles and ovals before you try the filigree that way you will kind of know what to expect.

[Dan Hintz]

A word to the wise... even if you know how to set up the laser and the file correctly, expect to spend a solid couple of days (or more) getting the file fixed up, figuring out settings (which also assumes you have some sample pieces to practice on), etc. My cost on such a random engraving would likely be a couple of grand, at least. And that assume you know what you're doing. Unless you had a pre-made file, which is the lion's share of the work, the laser is not the tool to use here.

[Jason Hilton]

I typically create my 3d artwork in 3d software and render out a depth map for etching. You're faced with a couple of difficulties in this case. First, even with a perfect file 35w is on the low side of the power for 3d. I've done all my 3d engraving on a 60w epilog, and still found I had to do 3+ passes most times to get a decent result without scorching. You might find you'll also have to run multiple versions of the file to get the contour you want. My 3d background, to me, makes doing 3d artwork easier for me in 3d software, but you can do it in 2d software. I'm not as familiar with what's available in Corel, but I've used a gradient mesh in Adobe Illustrator to create 3d etches in the past.

[Jeff Belany]

It seems to me, and I've been doing this for 15 years, this is a job I doubt you can pull off with a 35W machine and with limited experience. Nothing personal, maybe you're a laser savant, but UNLESS you have an unlimited budget, unlimited time, several boxes to experiment on -- this is a job to pass on to someone else. Some times you just can't do everything a customer wants, no matter how hard you try. Had a customer in earlier this week that had 3 logos (one very poor art) and two blocks of type that they want on one side of a small wine glass. No amount of convincing was going to change their minds even thought I told them the end result would not look very good since everything would have to be quite small. Not sure where it's going to go but I'll see when they try to find some of the art they need. Just a gut feeling that no matter what I do, they are not going to be happy.

Good luck, hope you can work it out.

Jeff in northern Wisconsin

[Joe Hillmann]

This is probably too late but I came across this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpl7o7ulWAA

it is titled Poor man's 3d posted by engravingconcepts1