Large frame saws

[Richard Krushner]

Just wanted to get an idea if anyone has experience of larger frame saws for rip and/or crosscut work? I have been thinking of making one, but wanted to know whether this is a worthwhile endeavour?

[Ron Patrick]

Check out these links:

http://www.renaissancewoodworker.com/why-you-need-a-resaw-frame-saw/ (http://www.renaissancewoodworker.com/why-you-need-a-resaw-frame-saw/)
http://www.renaissancewoodworker.com/rww-151-roubo-resaw-frame-saw-in-action/

[Winton Applegate]

Worth it for softer woods.
Not worth it for harder stuff between oak and bubinga.
For those it is bandsaw time or have a full time apprentice hanging around who works for free to grab holt of the other end of a two man saw (women are too smart to do this any more ). Even then it is slow going, you need a pit to resaw long stuff (8 foot or 10 foot long etc), and there are other problems.
Some one will add their good idea about the kerfing saw. That is cool. I have not tried that yet.

[Jim Paulson]

Just wanted to get an idea if anyone has experience of larger frame saws for rip and/or crosscut work? I have been thinking of making one, but wanted to know whether this is a worthwhile endeavour?
I say do it if you like making your own tools and don't mind a learning curve when if comes to becoming proficient in resawing. I've made two frame saws and it was fun to build them. Like building foot powered lathes you do it because it suits you. My larger framer saw is patterned after the one Adam Cherubini featured in his article in PWW. Instead of a four foot long blade, I opted for a three foot blade instead which is breasted. It sports an aggressive 2 tpi blade and the other one has a blade with 4 tpi. I built them and have not put them to heavy use yet. I have a bandsaw, but if I want to resaw a thick plank a frame saw is a cool option.

The renaissance woodworker blog on frame saws is cool too. Here is a picture of the two frame saws and a chair maker's bow saw I made for cutting out chair seats. Both frame saws work well and I used spade bits for blade holders on one saw and used pins, wedges and welded iron blade holders on the other.

267061

[Winton Applegate]

This is a good source for how to make a large frame saw and how to use it
http://www.amazon.com/Woodworking-Technique-Practical-Job--Choose/dp/0875967124/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1374625192&sr=1-1&keywords=woodworking+the+right+technique

See pages 81, and 282-284

This is a good book in general for making jigs and comparing hand tool and machine tool techniques.

Here are photos of a frame saw I made from purple heart (because it is very strong wood) and the blade I made for it from a bandsaw blade.

[Winton Applegate]

Oh and one more thought;
Don't even bother unless you are a long distance athlete: cycling, running . . . better yet a rower or swimmer.
Can we say AEROBIC ! ! ! Bordering on anaerobic when the teeth are filed too aggressive or the plank wide and hard.
Suuuurrrrre will make you appreciate a nice bandsaw though. Makes clicking that "buy now" button on a $2000 bandsaw effortless.

[Jim Paulson]

Winton,
The purple heart is beautiful on your saw. I built my first frame saw out of ash and I used spade bits for blade holders and I threaded the ends to accept nuts as your saw uses for tensioning the blade. I had to anneal the spade bits first so they could be drilled to allow the blade or web to be bolted on, and to tap it for threads. That worked out pretty well too.

Richard,

Another source of information for building a Roubo frame saw is Mike Siemsen's blog at http://schoolofwood.com/node/59 He describes building a frame saw based on what was learned from Adam Cherubini's experience with making a large frame saw. They opted to make their saw blade/web out of 2" wide 1095 steel that was 4 foot long. My larger saw has a 4 inch wide blade, 36 inches long and out of 1095 steel.

Best wishes,
Jim

[Winton Applegate]

Jim,

Thanks ! I was hoping you would put up a photo or more, the better, of your saws. Man, you've been busy. This is important work; to at the very least learn about and know first hand how it was done before power came to the wood shop.


purple heart is beautiful on your saw
People think I am some kind of nut using purple heart and bubbinga for my tools I have made; cocobolo on others.
I don't use them because they are pretty, at least in the beginning, or because I want the endangered species to disappear as quickly as possible. I use these species because they are the strongest thing around wood wise. You ought to see my bubbinga Krenov style saw horses. Spindly weak looking little suckers but STRONG LIKE BULL and small so they nestle out of the way. Four take up hardly any room.

[Andrae Covington]

Just wanted to get an idea if anyone has experience of larger frame saws for rip and/or crosscut work? I have been thinking of making one, but wanted to know whether this is a worthwhile endeavour?

Judging from previous discussions we've had on the topic, the frame saws seem to be love-it-or-hate-it.

I built one that was very loosely based on Mike Siemsen's approach, but using a ~26" commercial blade by Putsch. Those blades, I had been warned, are not really hard enough and might need some additional sharpening, but it was cheaper and considerably easier than buying a roll of 1095 spring steel and filing big bad wolf teeth entirely from scratch (for some strange reason, I don't have a Foley hand-operated toother like Siemsen did :confused:). I also ran out of maple and ended up using yellow pine for the stretchers just to get something going. The pine is way too flexible; the frame of a frame saw needs to be rock solid once the blade is in tension.

So, I didn't really create a good example to experiment with, but I have to say the main problem I had was not the saw itself, it was how to hold the wood. I used the leg vise on my workbench, but... the workbench top is right where the frame of this unwieldy contraption wants to go. To stay away from the workbench, I had to hold the saw too high to be comfortable / put my weight into it. So the saw soon began to tilt downwards, and then I tore a large splintery chunk off the left front corner of my workbench top on one of the backstrokes.:( Were I to further seriously pursue the frame saw for resawing, I would consider building something like this:

267084 (http://ceterone.blogspot.com/2006/06/veneer-sawyers-vise-from-diderot.html)
flicker (http://www.flickr.com/photos/20810645@N06/6661648413/)

[Jim Paulson]

[QUOTE=Andrae Covington;213547 I also ran out of maple and ended up using yellow pine for the stretchers just to get something going. The pine is way too flexible; the frame of a frame saw needs to be rock solid once the blade is in tension.
[/QUOTE]

Interesting comment Andrea. When I built my second frame saw I built the arms/ends out of cherry and used pine for the stretchers with no negative effect. The stretchers are joined to the arms via mortise and tenon joints. I had planned to replace the stretchers with hardwood later. I'll have to check the dimensions of the stretchers (probably 1.5 inches square). So I think pine is okay if the thickness/dimensions allow for it.

Bummer on the bench top. That tells me I'll use a piece of MDF or something to anticipate damage to the bench top when ripping stock. I love the engraving you posted. Did you notice what seems to be a hole in the floor?

Great to converse with folks into resawing!

[Steve Friedman]

There are a couple of great resources to build one.

If you want to build the Roubo frame saw, Isaac Smith (Blackburn Tools) sells 36" and 48" saw plates.
http://www.blackburntools.com/new-tools/new-saws-and-related/roubo-frame-saw-blade/index.html

Artisan Iron Designs sells the hardware for a Roubo frame saw
http://www.artisanirondesigns.com/shop/item.aspx?itemid=48

If you want to build a smaller frame saw, Dominic Greco sells 28" saw plates in 2" and 4" widths.
http://tgiag.com/sawplate.html

Steve

[Edward Mitton]

This is a good source for how to make a large frame saw and how to use it
http://www.amazon.com/Woodworking-Te...ight+technique (http://www.amazon.com/Woodworking-Technique-Practical-Job--Choose/dp/0875967124/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1374625192&sr=1-1&keywords=woodworking+the+right+technique)

See pages 81, and 282-284



I own a copy of this book, and am very intrigued about the article on the frame saw. I also am contemplating buildin and usin one. I did note, however, that the author likes to use the table saw with the blade set at max height to start the cut, then finish it with the frame saw. Very non-Neander, methinks!

[george wilson]

We used an original veneer cutting frame saw in the movie we made about spinet and violin making. It went very well,and Marcus and I were sawing 1/8" veneer quite accurately. If I were younger,I'd like to have a repro of that veneer saw.

[Richard Krushner]

Thank you all for your responses. Greatly appreciated.

What about large frame saws (or should I say bow saws??) for cross cutting?

[Jim Matthews]

Bow saws shine for crosscutting.

You will need to support the offcut, or the blade will be caught.
I reach through the frame with my free (left) hand to catch that last bit.

I particularly like the bowsaw for ripping longer boards with straight grain.
For crosscutting smaller stock, a standard saw is adequate.

[Andrae Covington]

Yeah I should have said the stretchers were pine and not particularly robust. Making them larger in cross-section would probably do the trick.

The hole shown in the Diderot engraving obviously allowed them to work on longer timbers without getting up on ladders to start.:D But for shorter pieces that wouldn't be necessary. That flicker gallery where the illustration comes from has an action photo of a replica vise he built.

[Winton Applegate]

Very non-Neander, methinks!
Yes.
I was waiting for some one to post this link. I hate to hog these treads with my bull in a china shop enthusiasm. Ok I am lying. I am kind of a teacher at heart and comfortable on the podium. But I am "supposed" to back off and give somebody else a chance.
So much for that. I've waited long enough. Here is an alternative I just learned about since I joined up here on Sawmill a few months ago. Great stuff ! ! !
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?202477-Re-sawing-Tool-The-neanders-friend


PS: I just went and measured my blade and it is about 48" (knowing me I cut it to a metric measurement; I don't know what that is right now). I would recommend this long length; one rocks forward on the legs and then back and then leans back. Can get a pretty darn long stroke going without too much gymnastics. Also when re sawing longer stuff by yourself you may angle the saw up to reach rather than dig a pit in the floor or stand on a table so the longer length is nice there because this angling up takes up some length; have to try it to see what I mean.