Planes by Kobalt??

[steven c newman]

While in Lowes today, pricing some plywood panels, walked through the Tool Town area. Hmmmm, Stanley planes were gone from their spots? Replaced by ones from Kobalt? Two block planes ( 6-1/2" and a 7") and a heavy 9-3/4"long bench plane #4. of course they are made in China, but so was my Wood River #4 V3. Not too sure of the block planes, look the same as the Stanleys they replaced on the hooks. That #4 however, has me thinking...:eek:


hey, for around $31 or so, depending on tax, seems to be a good beginer's plane. Looked up the reviews, apparently there is some slop in the depth adjuster, but the iron seemed to be ok, and the sole was flat.

Might be worth a look? :confused: If not, there is a lifetime garrantee....:D

[Andrew Bell]

Last year, I was stripping and refinishing a cot and paint stripper was not cutting it, I thought that a plane may be easier than scraping with a paint scraper or sanding everything back to wood. This was before I knew anything about planes, I bought a Kobalt block plane, It was blunt, has a rectangular opening on one side of the mouth, the blade was not square and I could not bring it square and it would not adjust with sufficient accuracy so I got big shavings or nothing at all.

I left it aside and told myself there is no way anyone would use a tool like that who valued doing any work with it at all.. then started the slippery slope into old stanleys (still need to pickup a block plane to replace this one though)

Had I known more I would have returned it, (i'm still not sure why there is a massively irregular mouth) but it stands as a testament reminding me to do my research before diving into anything

[Jim Koepke]

There are three nice Stanley/Bailey #4s in my shop now. Could likely get by with two. One of the three is a frankenplane with a small crack that doesn't give me the warm fuzzies about selling it.

That still seems like three good reasons not to drop $31 on some unknown plane that isn't needed. I might drop a lot less on another decent Stanley plane to resell.

jtk

[steven c newman]

Like you, except mine are a Millers Falls #8 and a #9. A Wood River #4 V3, and a Defiance #4 as well. Maybe the Kobalt bench plane would allow a newbie a start with planes, before they would have to "upgrade" (hate that word) to something ready to go out of a brown box. $31 sounds a little better to a newbie than a plane that costs the same as their monthly rent payments....

[Jim Koepke]

Maybe the Kobalt bench plane would allow a newbie a start with planes, before they would have to "upgrade" (hate that word) to something ready to go out of a brown box.

Maybe each and every Kobalt bench plane comes out of the box working as well as a new LN or LV product. That is a bit doubtful in today's world.

It could be a frustrating experience if it is on par with the Home Depot offering of Buck Brothers labeled metal objects that sort of look like hand planes.

My belief used to be fettling or setting up a hand plane is something just about anyone can do. Many posts here over the past few years have changed my opinion on this.

Many folks have no problem taking a plane apart, cleaning, making a few improvements, putting it all back together and making fine shavings. There are some folks that just get lost and are not able to fettle metal. Then there are a few (Stanley/Bailey) planes that have come my way that just will not work right without some major machine work.

jtk

[David Weaver]

Probably originates from the same place as the buck brothers #4.

There are too many decent vintage planes available for that or less to make it worthwhile. Best thing for a beginner to do is to luck out and get a vintage plane from someone who was using it and who know how to use it to its potential.

I have never been in places necessarily where inexpensive planes are available on a reregular basis (I don't go to auctions, I don't go to yard sales, and while I've been at the local flea market here, I'm not looking for planes and it's good I'm not because usually there is something like a broken off-brand #4 sized plane for $40 or so). BUT, I have gotten off of ebay 3 millers falls 14s for $10 each, two used 9s for $10, a nearly unused #9 for $22, two MF 18s for $23 and $35, and locally (at antique malls) have gotten a $15 nearly unused #6 and a $25 little used #6.

It took about an hour combined to set up a search and get all of those cheap MFs, and the stanley planes I just ran across while I was wasting time. Personally, I would sooner help a beginner get a decent vintage plane and help them set it up than have them spend $31 on one of those planes without me lifting a finger.

The woodcraft planes (mostly through their labors) and the mujingfang planes (because of muji's philosophy) are the only good planes I have seen from china. The mujis are made by professional planemakers rather than replaceable factory cogs.

[george wilson]

It is NEVER a good idea to give a beginner a tool that even a pro could not use. It frustrates and discourages them to try using a plane that just doesn't cut well. The first thing I ever taught my apprentices was how to sharpen their tools and adjust their planes. Immediately,they were excited to make nice,fluffy shavings.

If you have a newbie to teach,let them use a sharp,properly adjusted plane that works properly or you can quickly dampen their interest.

[David Weaver]

Not that it has anything to do with planes, but one of the things that irritated me the most where I took guitar lessons was that one of the teachers demanded that all students start with an acoustic guitar for a year, that they couldn't "use an electric guitar until they mastered an acoustic", and the teacher demanded the students had to start with folk music.

So most of the kids back then came in with cheap acoustic guitars that were extremely hard fingering, and you could see them straining to chord the guitars because of how hard they were to finger.

I went to the other instructor. He didn't care what kind of guitar you had or what kind of music you wanted to play, he just wanted you to practice and get better. His students moved along faster because they got to play what they wanted to play, and they got to play it on guitars that fingered a whole lot easier.

Sort of goes along the same lines as this, set a beginner up with something where they'll be the obstacle and not the tool.

[glenn bradley]

I'll chime in with a pass vote. Many a child has failed to learn to play a musical instrument due to the one they were trying to learn on being unplayable. An old hand might be able to beat a mediocre tool into a usable beast but, a novice could find themselves frustrated. I have a scraper insert for a #4 and thought about a cheap new plane to house it. After looking at a few I just picked up a used plane cheap, dipped it in Evap-o-rust, ran it across some abrasive to flatten the sole, installed the scraper insert and put it to work. I wanted the inexpensive new body to be usable, I really did but, it was not. The adjustments were just too crude.

[steven c newman]

OK, now, have any of you even seen this thing, yet?

Tempted to just go out and get one, try it out, review it. IF it is a "Dog", I can always take it back to Lowes for a refund.


I started out with a Stanley block plane(#110 from the 60s) and a Great Neck#4 that always seems to be lose in the settings. Didn't know how to tune a plane back then, either. Inherited a Union #3 that was tuned up, but rusty, and painted blue(why??) and found out what was missing as far as a good plane was. Still had to learn how to sharpen one, but things got better as I went along.

[David Weaver]

If you keep it, you have a $31 plane that isn't worth the cost to ship it after you're done with it. If you have to take it back, you wasted your time with it.

[steven c newman]

IF I were to take it back to Lowes, it could even be just a two mile walk, as they are at the other end of town. No shipping needed, besides, I could even use the full refund for supplies for the shop. Buy a lot of screws for that amount....


Maybe it wouldn't hurt for some to go look at the bench plane?(unless they are too busy cheerleading for Rob Lee)

[David Weaver]

The cost of shipping comment is about what you can do with it if you decide you don't want it. It's destined to stay on ebay for $9.99 and never sell because it's not even worth the cost to ship it. It's your time, you can do what you'd like with it. Nobody will do anything but shake their heads about wasting several hours and $31 on a junk plane.

[steven c newman]

Why should I sell it? I could just return it to Lowes, and get the money back....

IF it does happen, I could use the refund for supplies for the shop....

The "waste of time" part? Since this is a hobby to me, I have plenty of time to waste. Not like I am doing this for a living...

[Chris Hachet]

I have got four # 4 sized planes, a vintage European wood plane, an ECE finish plane, a Stanley Sweetheart new plane, and a vintage Stanley Type 17 (WW-2 Era) #4....all of which work much better than the Kobalt #4. I would not suggest the Kobalt plane, personally...I keep the Stanley for really rough stuff, working on doors, decks, mailbox posts, etc....even for rough work like that, it is much better than the Kobalt plane.

[steven c newman]

Lets see, I have a M-F #9, a Stanley Defiance #4, and a Wood River#4 V3 as my #4 sized smoothers. Do have some in the #3 size as well. These are my "keepers", and what I compare others that pass through the shop with.

The Kobalt seems to be a copy of a Bailey style plane, from what I have actually seen of it, in the store. It does have a flat sole(straight edge was just down the aisle) and there is a frog adjust screw. Chip breaker looked a little thin, about like most vintage Stanley ones. Made the iron look thick, too. It also has a lever cap, instead of the Buck Brothers screwcap. Yes, I've had a BB#4 come through the shop, and sold it at a profit, thank you. So, if it came down to a sharpening of the iron to get a trail run, not a big deal to me. From what I could see, fit and finish look quite good.

Might be a diamond in the rough, might not. One way to tell, isn't there? While I doubt that LN or Veritas have anything to worry about from this plane, it does have a no questions asked guarantee......

[Jim Koepke]

OK, now, have any of you even seen this thing, yet?

Which is the reason I would never tell someone just getting started to give it a try. I do not even like most Stanley/Bailey planes made after the mid 1930s.


Tempted to just go out and get one, try it out, review it. IF it is a "Dog", I can always take it back to Lowes for a refund.

Please include a lot of pictures when you do this.

jtk

[george wilson]

I wouldn't buy one for the simple reason I already have enough planes!!:) Count me in as a Rob Lee cheerleader. His company makes every effort to produce the finest tools. His company instantly refunds or exchanges the item if anything is wrong(I have personal experience of that). He posts here to discuss products and future products,and to answer questions. Why should I not be a cheerleader for him?

Lowes,too, has a liberal return policy,but I am not much of a fan of Chinese tools.

[Joe Ruden]

I have bought two #4's, a #5 and a block plane (all Stanley/Bailey) and have not paid over $31 for any of them including shipping. And I am very much a beginner in the hand tool world. This sub-forum is a dangerous place but also a source of very valuable information to people like me.

[David Weaver]

It is. And if you really want to go bonkers, troll the MJD auctions where they aggregate a dozen or so planes at a time. If we didn't have the internet, we'd all buy fewer tools... it'd sure be harder to unload them and get most or all of your money back if the internet didn't exist. Of course, there would be decent ones at flea markets and antique shops, though.

[Joe Ruden]

It is. And if you really want to go bonkers, troll the MJD auctions where they aggregate a dozen or so planes at a time. If we didn't have the internet, we'd all buy fewer tools... it'd sure be harder to unload them and get most or all of your money back if the internet didn't exist. Of course, there would be decent ones at flea markets and antique shops, though.


If I didn't have the internet I would probably have a lot more time to go to flea markets and antique shops. So all in all I would still be broke.

[Chris Hachet]

If I didn't have the internet I would probably have a lot more time to go to flea markets and antique shops. So all in all I would still be broke.

Sounds like you and I have a common problem...given my utter tool lust...my 12 year old daughter is better at saving money than I am...of course, she is discovering woodworking and tools also, so that could change!

[steven c newman]

Yep, slippery slope! I have a vintage plane on the way, bidding on another, plus a parts plane. Sold three old planes to get some more planes to play with.....

[steven c newman]

To each thier own poisons. IF one has the cash to burn, go for it.....266963 I think these two cost about $30, for the pair....

[george wilson]

I hardly think that buying quality tools is poison!!:)

[Chris Griggs]

I hardly think that buying quality tools is poison!!:)

Many a spouse would beg to differ ;)

[Adam Petersen]

I saw them putting these out the other day and putting the Stanley stuff (and the Nicholson files) on clearance. I picked up several of the latter for about $1.50 each. The Kobalt planes very much reminded me of the Sears Footprint planes. The only thing that looked remotely nice was the knob and tote. The rest of the plane looked cheap and the iron was VERY thin. I think it is overpriced in the $30's range and anyone that gets it may be frusterated with it. I know I would be. Good luck if you do buy it. (I love Veritas planes! Sorry, had to get that in there).

[Bill Houghton]

If you want a cheap beginner's plane, the Horrible Fright plane (http://www.harborfreight.com/no-33-bench-plane-97544.html) has had some surprisingly good reviews. No experience myself; I keep meaning to hold my breath*, walk in there, and buy one, just for the heck of it.

*can't stand the smell of all the plasticizers in their store.

[steven c newman]

Do you mean this one?267010267011267012267013Grind the thick single iron into a 3" radius, and you will have a nice #3 sized scrub plane. Only $9.99+tax
'

[Vinnie Lopez]

I am brand new to the forum and a beginner. Unfortunately I bought two of the planes mentioned here a No. 4 Kobalt and a buck bros jack plane. I can tell you the Kobalt is the worst experience it is a horrible plane cannot get it to lock th blade down snug and still be able to adjust the depth when I try to adjust the depth the chip breaker pops off. The buck brothers while still not a good plane is better than the Kobalt. I recently scored a Stanley Bailey 6c for a steal it is vintage. I know the 6c is not a favorite among wood workers but it is the first vintage plane I will restore to user condition.

[David Weaver]

A bailey 6c is a really nice plane. I think patrick leach put up his page talking about how 6s were useless and people believed it, but they're the same size as the well regarded large spiers panel plane.

I like 6s a lot, and will always have one.

[Vinnie Lopez]

I'm looking forward to getting it. I am also looking for a Miller falls no. 9 or Stanley no. 4 I will probably get one next week on ebay. I want to have four good vintage planes. I want a block,jack,smoothing,and joiner. That should serve me well while I am doing my beginner projects. I learned my lesson buy quality and buy once. I will be doing the same with hand saws.

[Jim Koepke]

Vinnie,

Welcome to the Creek. Your profile doesn't indicate your location. If you are in my part of the world let me know. Maybe we can get together and you can test drive a few planes.

I like the #6. There are two of them in my shop.

jtk

[Vinnie Lopez]

Jim thank you I wish I was in your neck of the woods as good lumber would be more readily available. There is not much down here in terms of wood. Its hard to find stuff other than typical home depot or lowes stuff. I updated my profile

[steven c newman]

Between Yard Sales, and the FeeBay, I have managed somehow to pick up a few good ones. A wood bodied, 22" long Try Plane by Ohio Tool Co. A 24"ong Stanley #31 Jointer plane. Two Millers Falls #14 Jack planes, a Stanley #5, and a Stanley #5-1/2. A Stanley FourSquare 5-1/4 snuck in here too.

There is a few Millers Falls #9 ( 3 of them!) and a #8. A Millers Falls #1455 low angle block plane came in it's own box. Couple of Stanley 9-1/2s, one of which has a knuckle style cap.

Sure, a few less than perfect items come through the shop. I fix those up, and sell them to buy the "better" stuff. Around this neck of the woods ( West Central Ohio) we have a bunch of Amish mills. They seem to be a bit better on pricing, too.

I have been known to "rescue" lumber from the curb. Currently finishing up a second tool chest, that at one time was an Oak bed frame, and a pine bed frame from a waterbed. Down your way, drive by any remodelling going on, ASK to dive through their scrap dumpsters. Trash day? Do a morning drive by. Might be surprised at what gets tossed out......

[ken hatch]

I still have the first plane I bought back in the 70's, it was from Home Depot and who knows the brand name. And while I know Lee Trevino could hustle the rubes playing with a Coke bottle I doubt even a woodworking Lee Trevino could make that worthless hunk of metal function as a plane. Among its many sins was a paint to paint frog mating surface.

I've been down most woodworking roads, many of then dead ends, and while I know many will disagree, the best way for a new woodworker that doesn't have a mentor is to start with a new plane, saw, or chisel from a good maker. The Woodriver planes are very good and by the time you pay shipping on a vintage plane from eBay, replace the iron because the one in it is pitted or so miss sharpened as to be worthless, and the normal eBay burn rate for even someone that knows what to look for, it is cheaper to buy the new Woodriver. Pretty much the same applies to what ever tools you are looking for. Once you know how to use and maintain your tools then vintage can be great, not only for the value but for the quality of the tools. I have many more vintage tools than is wise or needed but: What the hey, they are good for bar talk i.e. hey little lady would you like to come up and see my set of Stanley type 9 planes from a #3 to a #8 or if that fails how about my set of Union Hardware thin blade chisels? I still can't figure out why I go home alone :-).

A long way around to: I don't have to go look, price and source are all that is needed to know its value.

[David Weaver]

It's a good idea on ebay to pay an extra ten bucks (which I figure is what an auction will fetch additional if a seller takes pictures of everything, including the cap iron and iron apart, and both sides of the iron).

Probably 1 in 100 listings is actually worth buying to get market price and assurance, but it's worth doing. As you're describing, making sure the iron and cap iron are good is pretty important, wood, too.