Radial arm saw with 20,000 rpm shaft.

[Joe Hillmann]

I am looking for a radial arm saw that has both a 20,000 and a 3,500 rpm shaft on the back of the saw. Looking on Craigslist I can find hundreds of saws near by but the only ones I know for sure have the high speed shaft on the back are power krafts by Montgomery Wards. Does anyone know of any other brands that came with the high speed shaft so I can broaden my search? Also if anyone has a power kraft saw is the quality ok? I worry they may be of similar quality of the craftsman saws.

[jack forsberg]

No RAS in the world with have 20,000 rpm shafts. is this a typo? Pin routers do though.


jack
English machines

[John Lanciani]

The Ryobi RA200 had it. Even came with a 1/4" router collet installed.

[Joe Hillmann]

It is not a typo. Some had the 3,500 rpm shaft that went all the way through the motor, that the blade mounted to the left side and attachments mounted to the right side, Inside the motor housing they had some type of transmission that connected to a second shaft that came out the right side that spun at 20,000 rpm for mounting router bits. From what I have read some of them even had variable speed on the high speed shaft.

I do plan to use it mostly as a pin router. I had planed to originally buy a radial arm saw, and replace the head with a router but then I found out some have the high speed shaft so now that is what I am looking for.

[Andrew Joiner]

I had the Wards radial arm saw with 20,000 rpm shaft. Bought it new around 1967. Fine as a radial saw. I used it maybe 2 hours for routing and the gears melted for the 20k shaft, they're plastic. I don't remember if the saw spindle worked after that.

[Joe Hillmann]

That sucks to hear. I was hoping this going with the wards route was the way to go but that kind of changes my mind unless I can get one dirt cheap. I may have to go back to my original idea of mounting a router on any cheap saw I can get.

[jack forsberg]

oh boy they must be loud if there gears! I would think they would be a great disappointment. Your idea of a router sounds much better only in that the name brands that have be mention are consumer grade. if you have ever seen a real pin router like the Wadkin LS you would understand what it take to run a shaft at 20,000 rpm from an conventional motor.The spindle bearings alone in theses machines are $400 a piece and run in oil . What is it you are trying to mill?

jack
English machines

[Joe Hillmann]

I will be cutting 1/8 inch plywood with a 1/8 or 1/4 spiral bit. Right now I do the cutting with a laser but it is too slow. I will still do the parts that have to be exact or need perfect 90 degree inside corners on the laser but the bigger pieces that don't matter as much I plan to do with a pin router.

I have been looking for a wards saw but was worried about the quality which Andrew pointed out isn't the best, or an older dewalt with the cast iron arm which I would then mount a router too. For the work I will be doing there won't be too much force on the arm but I want something with as little flex as possible.

I like the idea of a radial arm saw converted to a pin router rather than a real pin router mostly because I can get a saw for under $100 but a real pin router is likely to cost $800-$1000 and would be way overkill for what I need.

[Alan Bienlein]

My father had the montgomery wards radial arm saw with the auxiliary spindles. Used that saw all the time from crosscutting to ripping and even running the sears moulding heads on it. As far as I know it still works.

As to how loud it is was no worse than a regular radial arm saw.
http://koltner.com/saw/IMG_0593.JPG

[Joe Hillmann]

Thanks for the picture. I have never been able to see an up close picture of the right side of the motor.

[Mel Fulks]

Have you tried to find an actual pin router? CNC has certainly reduced demand for them.

[John McClanahan]

Craftsman once sold a radial arm saw with a worm drive motor, much like worm drive hand held saws. I don't know if there was a way to run attachments directly from the motor, though.

John

[Joe Hillmann]

Mel,

I looked, I can find "kits" for as little as $50 but they won't work for what I want, and true pin routers tend to be $800 to $1400.

[jack forsberg]

Pin routers around me are boat anchors and tend to go for $150 at auction. the other bidder is the scrap man and you. It would take me about 2 weeks to find one. I have had 3 offered to me in the last 2 years for free. Its not worth getting one with bad bearings so you must see them run. Oil bearing have a sound that is hard to describe. At any rate Rockwell made a little one that would not be over kill IMO. runs on 120/240 single.
266886

jack
English machines

[Brett Robson]

I'd go with the Powr-kraft RAS. I see several of them on my local Criagslist any given day for $50-$100. If you burn one up, a replacement's pretty cheap!

[Mel Fulks]

I agree with Jack. There is so little demand no one is spending money to advertise, sometimes found in the miscellaneous of auctions. I have a friend who has one like the photo ,bought it cheap and likes it.

[John Gustafson]

I have one, that's still working. Right now it' up at my camp so I can get things done up there. As a RAS it's OK. You can rip and crosscut with it. The real problem is it has a tendancy to get out of alignment so precision work is a problem. The other issue is the arm. It's not steel, it's some flavor of die cast metal and it deflects when you run the powerhead out, probably a 1/16 or so. . Not an issue for crosscuts, but if you re cutting dadoes or rabbets they will be tapered. Same issue with the router shaft. Finally, Parts. Last time I looked, maybe 10 years ago there were two guys, one in the Boston area and one in St. Louis that NOS parts.. Neither of them were spring chickens then so I have no clue if they are still around.

[Rick Potter]

I had a Power Kraft RAS for years. This one had a gearbox that lowered the shaft for the blade, and you could cut a 4x4 in one pass on a 10" saw. It worked well for general around the house stuff, but I wouldn't call it precision. It finally bit the dust when a plastic gear that raised and lowered the arm gave out. My dad had the same one, and it is still working for my Son in Law.

Rick Potter

By the way, Sears sold a pin router for several years. You put your own router on it, and it cut from the top, working like the RAS adaptor you mentioned. My dad had one that he used to make marble games with. I now have it, but rarely use it.

[Stephen Cherry]

Have you tried to find an actual pin router? CNC has certainly reduced demand for them.

One alternative is the cr onsrud 2003. It's basically a big PC router inverted into an industrial quality router table and cast iron overarm pin assembly. With a spiral upcut bit, it eats 1/8 ply at a pretty high rate. Good dust collection also. These can go used for surprisingly cheap. I bought one that was used just a few times for about 900 dollars (?). One thing to look for is that some of these were high volume machines, and if that is the case, I would pass.

[Rich Engelhardt]

The Ryobi RA200 had it
They were recalled because the motor (& blade) could fall off during use.
Talk about exciting.....

[Joe Hillmann]

The local scrap metal guy stopped by to sell me some lead. When he was here I asked him if he has ever seen pin routers at auctions. He said he has seen them before and will be on the lookout for one for me. In the mean time I found a craftsman radial arm saw from the early 60's that looks pretty solid for $50 that I may buy and build an attachment to mount a router in the yolk without doing any damage to the machine. That way once I get a real pinrouter I can either put the saw back together for my own use or sell it and get most of my money back out of it.

[Myk Rian]

I know one fellow that made an L bracket, and mounted that to the motor. He simply mounts a router to that.

[jack forsberg]

I know one fellow that made an L bracket, and mounted that to the motor. He simply mounts a router to that.


i know a guy over at OWWM in a red dress that know more than you. LOL

sorry it was the i know a guy that know a guy that made me do it.LOL


jack
English machines

[Chris Fournier]

Pin routers are under rated. Of course CNC have replaced the humble pin router. The obvious fact is that most woodworkers haven't the CNC budget. I have a Samco pin router (Minmax now) and it has earned its keep and then some. Don't get caught in the one man factory mind set, it doesn't pay. Find a used pin router and get on with production. Of course you're limited to the radius that you can run. I have run 0.03" cutters in mine. You have to source collets.

[Joe Hillmann]

I looked at two radial arm saws over the weekend. A power-kraft and an old craftsman. Neither of them locked up tight enough to work as an overarm router. I would like to find an old DeWalt, they were supposed to be the best of the best. But if I got one I am sure I would rather use it as a saw rather then take it apart and use it as a router.