Record 4 1/2

[jim goddard]

In my travels I can't say I've ever seen a Record 4 1/2 here in the states. I know they must exist but perhaps weren't imported in large numbers? Has anyone else seen them? I found a basically unused one today and snapped it up. I like english planes and that size in particular.

[Hilton Ralphs]

There are a couple around here in South Africa and I am about to cut-up one to use as a diamond paste base.

Apparently the post WWII Record Planes are pretty decent as opposed to their Stanley counter parts. Certainly the frog seems to have more beef to it and more surface area but the sole is a wee bit smaller than the Stanley 4-1/2.

[Jim Koepke]

The 4-1/2 by any maker is an uncommon size.

I still reminisce fondly about the day mine was found in an antique shop in Astoria, OR with a tag marked $30.

How about some pictures?

jtk

[Sam Takeuchi]

I'm a big fan of Record planes and I have a few. Sole size should be exactly the same as the US Stanley planes of corresponding type (if they are pre-1960s vintage), difference being simply the variance in casting. Often times Record planes had rather thicker casting, whether it was intentional or simply a result of raw casting thickness and manufacturing process, I don't know, but size wise, they should be the same. Even screws are interchangeable with Stanley's odd thread.

I don't know if Record No.4 1/2 made into the US much, but they do pop up often in eBay UK, so they aren't exactly rare, only a bit less more common than No.4 perhaps.

Generally speaking, Record planes up to mid 1950s (around 1956) was the copy of US Stanley type 15. Only difference being cosmetic, like color, cast marking, markings on parts. Post WWII Record came with beech handles and knob, prior to that, was rosewood. Post mid 1950s Record began to incorporate ogee frog design much like post type 16 Stanley planes.

Record had a reputation for being somewhat decent until like couple of decades ago. While Record (after going through different owners) planes went through various cost cutting design, much like Stanley, it had somewhat decent reputation for quality unlike Stanley, though once they began incorporate plastic handles and all, it was sort of batched into "meh" category like the rest of plastic handled planes. It was still workable, however.

[jim goddard]

Sure, Ill post some pics shortly. Like Sam I really very much like Record products, much more than Stanleys. All of the Record 4 1/2s Ive seen lately were thru ebay UK. Like I said Ive cant recall even seeing one here though. Im just as glad I went home w/ it. Its my 3rd 4 1/2. Hey, its like saws, you can never have too many. Would also like to score a 5 1/2, another favorite of mine.

[Sam Takeuchi]

My most favorite plane is the pre-war Record No.3 with rosewood handle and knob. Such a nice plane, appearance and quality wise.

I'm not big on collecting, but if I were to collect one plane, it would be Record Calvert Stevens CS88. Truly one of a kind!

[jim goddard]

266796266795

I think this must be a newer model. IIRC my older ones have a decal on the tote and paint in the 'Record' logo on the lever cap. Also the tote seems cheapish. At any rate Im glad to have it. :)

[jim goddard]

Cant say as Ive ever seen one that old here. Im not a collector either...but I am a Record fan. I remember when the RCS planes were on the market here.

I see youre in Russia...never really thought about where tools there come from. Are there any Russia based hand tool mfgs?

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

There was at least one Russian company making clones of the Record 043 plough plane, they showed up on eBay quite frequently, or at least did (I haven't looked in a while)

[Sam Takeuchi]

I think your plane is from the 80s or early 90s. I can't be sure, but the 1990s introduced Record planes with plastic handle and knob, plus screw cap, but yours seems to be from prior to those changes.

During the Soviet era, Russia had this (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?142667-Metal-plane-of-USSR). With cool USSR lever cap and all.

[Chris Hachet]

266796266795Sweet looking plane!

I think this must be a newer model. IIRC my older ones have a decal on the tote and paint in the 'Record' logo on the lever cap. Also the tote seems cheapish. At any rate Im glad to have it. :)
Sweet looking plane, sir!

[Sam Takeuchi]

If it's old, then it probably was made by Voskov, basically the only plane manufacturer from the Soviet time. During the Soviet era, household items were made at one or two locations for the whole country. Near our house, there's a gigantic factory complex that used to manufacture rubber boots for the whole Soviet Union. Now most of it is dilapidated, partly still functioning and making something, and inside of the complex used as paintball ground. Voskov planes were the same. Probably made at one massive factory for the whole Soviet Union, or at least for Russia, other than going for old wooden planes, your only choice was this grey cast and milled aluminum Voskov plane whether you were on Sakhalin island in the far east or Murmansk in the arctic circle.

[Charlie Stanford]

In my travels I can't say I've ever seen a Record 4 1/2 here in the states. I know they must exist but perhaps weren't imported in large numbers? Has anyone else seen them? I found a basically unused one today and snapped it up. I like english planes and that size in particular.

Here's my 4 1/2 with Hock iron and Clifton Stay-Set cap iron:

266798266799

[Don Dorn]

I have one, but I think it's a later model as the frog is webbed as opposed to solid. It does have a wooden handle and tote, but as to performance, I'm not sure the solid frog style would do any better than mine does. Since I have #4 Stanley, I set it to take a ranker cut and leave the ultra smoothing to the Record. I also have a T5 which gives the same performance, but it too has the webbed frog.

[jim goddard]

Hi Charlie
Very nice, thats an older one I think. Its much like my old 8c with the painted lever cap and 2 piece adjuster. Thanks for sharing that. How long have you had it and where did you get it?

[jim goddard]

I was thinking it was an 80s plane. It was the phase before they cheaped out completely and went out of business. Too bad b/c they made a really superior product.

[Joe Bailey]

Here's one I had for a short time (before selling it). I got it for $4.00 at a garage sale. I found it a bit cheesy, especially in the finish department, though it was clearly a late-model plane.

266805266806266807266808266809

[Charlie Stanford]

Hi Charlie
Very nice, thats an older one I think. Its much like my old 8c with the painted lever cap and 2 piece adjuster. Thanks for sharing that. How long have you had it and where did you get it?

I think it's probably from the 1980s. Got it on EBay about four years ago. I do have a Record 04 with the old frog and crucible cast cutter. It's a dream.

[jim goddard]

Hi Charlie
Thats an older plane than mine I think, where/when did you get it?

[jim goddard]

Your copy is identical to mine. Ya, the wood isnt up to par and some of the metal parts scream cheap but I can fix (most of) that. Whoever owned it before me did a good job on the iron/cap iron. Its sharp and they fit perfectly at the business end.

[Peter Pedisich]

Jim,

I like your plane (and Charlies!).
I purchased this Record 4-1/2 recently and it was unused, probably from the 90's.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ceAFZZwyebY/UdJIvwo5pEI/AAAAAAAACOU/v4BxyWHkgzw/s800/IMG_0052.JPG

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-bv58rEGtKV0/UdJIx-AP3_I/AAAAAAAACOU/8khfgz26PN8/s800/IMG_0054.JPG

[Frank Drew]

Stanley/Bailey made some planes in England and they were marked as such; aside from the obvious physical similarities, is there any corporate connection between those English-made Stanleys and Record planes?

I ask because there's a "Record" 05-1/2 currently offered on the popular internet auction site that's clearly marked Stanley on the lever cap and Bailey/Made in England on the plane body. Has me confused why it would be listed as a Record plane.

[David Barnett]

English Stanley/Bailey #4½ of same era as Record in Charlie Stanford's post (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?205707-Record-4-1-2&p=2134101#post2134101) not as nice, IMO—V-folded tab on lateral blade lever, and so on.

[Sam Takeuchi]

I don't think Stanley in England had connection with Record, as Record was a brand name rather than the company name. If you want history of the companies behind "Record" brand, read here (http://www.recordhandplanes.com/history.html).

[Frank Drew]

David, Sam,

Thanks for the follow up and information.

[jim goddard]

Frank
I saw that too and was surprised. To my knowledge there was no connection. The example you pointed out is clearly marked bailey. I took it as a typo.

[Frank Drew]

Jim,

You're no doubt correct that it's just a typo; if it's still for sale maybe I'll give the seller a heads up.

[Frederick Skelly]

ABOUT THAT "USSR" PLANE? (A short aside)

Sam, something about the Soviet handplane in your post kept nagging at me today. If that plane was made for Soviet use, why would it be stamped "USSR"? That's English. I contacted a buddy of mine who speaks Russian. He said that the Russians use Cyrillic (greek?) characters and so it should read "CCCP", not "USSR". Any ideas?

Could they have had hopes of exporting this plane to Western countries? Or perhaps it was manufactured as a souvenir after the Soviet era? (Like many souvenir reproductions of Soviet military medals you can buy.)

You live over there and probably speak and write the language - what do you make of it?

Fred