I need and want your opinion on a thickness planer

[John Piwaron]

First, I've been using a thickness planer for years. They're great to have. My first was a Ryobi AP-10. That's long gone. My current is a DeWalt DW733

But the results from them, at least the two examples I've had/have are sometimes disappointing. I don't mean snipe, I've had that and know how to adjust to get rid of it. I can sharpen my knives. No problem there.

It's loud. That's sometimes a problem though not the one I'm thinking about. It's the tearout that I sometimes get (not all the time) planing maple, cherry and others.

I'm considering 3 solutions:

1) find and buy a spiral cutter head to replace the one in it.

2) buy a brand new DW735 and immediately replace the cutter head with a Byrd shelix head. I'm not worried about voiding the warranty.

3) forget a lunchbox altogether and buy a Hammer jointer/planer combo with a "Silent Spiral" cutter head.

I can't say that I'm going to run out and buy something immediately. I'm considering my options.

For those that have simply replaced the cutter head, does the new head work at least as well as the old one? What kind of difference in the quality of the planed surface is there after that switch?

From the noise perspective, I read that a spiral head is quieter in operation. Is that improvement noticeable in these DeWalt units? That's not my #1 concern, the quality of the results is. But reduced noise would probably make everyone in the house happier.

The Hammer machine - if I were to tackle it's steep, steep price, bite the bullet so to speak, will it produce results noticeably better than a reworked DeWalt lunchbox?

I currently have a Delta DJ-20 jointer, a better jointer isn't really on my radar. In fact, I'm puzzled by why anyone would put a spiral cutter in a jointer when the planer is going to be the machine that does the bulk of the surfacing. With the exception of squaring an edge.

[Jeff Duncan]

My general opinion is the bigger the better with machinery. Heavier castings and larger cutterheads will generally produce a better finish, but until you get into the real big machines I think the best alternative is probably going to be an insert head. Insert heads have been written about so much it doesn't make sense to start yet another thread on them so I'll leave that for now.

As far as the benefit of going to a stationary machine it's more than just results. I'm not familiar with the Hammer, but in general a good stationary machine will allow you to remove more material quicker and for a much longer period of time. Portables use universal motors which besides being exceptionally loud, also heat up fairly quickly. I have an older Delta that I still pull out from time to time and it always amazes me how quickly the thing gets hot!

Lastly I don't have a spiral head on either of my jointers though I may eventually put one on my 8". I tend to use that jointer to clean up door edges before sanding, and also to clean up board edges before glue up, and in both situations it's advantageous to not have any tear-out;)

good luck,
JeffD

[Phil Thien]

My DW734 can tear-out anywhere the grain reverses. I use a wet shop towel (not dripping wet, I saturate it and then wring it out) to wipe the board down before running it through the planer again.

I typically wait about a minute after wiping the board before running it through the planer, which seems to give the moistures a chance to work its magic.

It really works surprisingly well.

Can't do anything for you on the noise.

[Andrew Fleck]

I think you will find that you still get some tearout with a spiral head, although not as bad as straight knives. Have you considered getting to final thickness with a drum or belt sander? I don't know what your budget is, but a sander would get rid of your tearout problem.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

John,

IMHO, there are two reasons to have a spiral head on either a planer or jointer. First, it is quieter. Second, it's quicker and easier to rotate a square carbide bit on the spiral head to get a new cutting edge than to remove, sharpen and align a blade. For over 40 years I made a living nitpicking and performing critical aligments, electrical, electronic and electrical-mechanical. When I left work and now that I am retired, I prefer to not bother with them.

Why do I have a spiral cutter head on my jointer? I have had it a nearly 3 years now. It's jointed a goodly amount of hardwood and I haven't had to rotate the cutters yet. But when I do, it won't take long and I won't have any alignments to perform.

I have one of the original Ridgid lunchbox planers. I debate whether to convert it to spiral or buy a larger one regularly. Luckily, I don't have an immediate reason to replace it.

Good luck with your research and decision!

[David Kumm]

I would look for a used Delta DC 33, Rockwell RC 33 or even the 15" Delta that was blue and from Taiwan 400-700 range and put a Byrd head on it. They were well made, had a fixed table, and are pretty common. A PM 100 was a good planer too. You are in cheaper than a new spiral stationary and I think you will have a better built machine.

[John Vernier]

We installed a Byrd Shelix head in a 15" Taiwanese planer in the commercial shop I used to work in; The noise reduction was dramatic, compared to our old straight knife head - to the point where you could have a conversation while milling boards. Our neighbors across the thin shop wall began to like us better. Tear-out became a non-issue, until the blades began to dull after many months of regular use, at which point you need to rotate the blades to a new side. We found that the original set of blades lasted four years, that is about one year per side, and the rotating operation takes me about 45 minutes. I am completely sold on the Byrd head!

The Dewalt 735, however, is the noisiest of the small planers, and a lot of the noise comes from its gear box, which will not be affected by a new head of any sort. It is in many respects an excellent machine, but if noise is a concern then almost any other small modern machine will be quieter.

[Dennis Peacock]

John,
I understand what you are saying. I kept buying, using, and then selling and upgrading until I got to my current Powermatic 15" planer that came with a spiral cutter head. I then replaced the standard spiral cutter head with a Byrd Shelix spiral cutter head. I went from some to more effort while planing wood to zero effort in getting wood through the planer and you can stand there and talk to a buddy while the wood and dust collector are running without having to scream at each other. The wood surface is excellent off the planer and the noise is GREATLY reduced. I was totally shocked the first time I turned it on with the new cutter head in it and ran a wide board through it. I had to check the surface of the board to see if it was really cutting wood off of it or not.

Go as bid and heavy as you can go. You will not regret it in the long run and it's really cheaper to make the jump once instead of slowly climbing your way up to where you want / need to be the way I did. ;)

[John Piwaron]

My DW734 can tear-out anywhere the grain reverses. I use a wet shop towel (not dripping wet, I saturate it and then wring it out) to wipe the board down before running it through the planer again.

I typically wait about a minute after wiping the board before running it through the planer, which seems to give the moistures a chance to work its magic.

It really works surprisingly well.

Good tip. Thanks!

[John Piwaron]

I think you will find that you still get some tearout with a spiral head, although not as bad as straight knives. Have you considered getting to final thickness with a drum or belt sander? I don't know what your budget is, but a sander would get rid of your tearout problem.

Budget - not sure about that. Obviously a modified lunchbox would be easier on the wallet. I'll make whatever I decide happen.

I've thought about thickness sanders before. Those are a big space problem for me. But I *do* like them. My local hardwood pusher, er, retailer has one and offers it's use on a per minute basis.

[John Piwaron]

John,

IMHO, there are two reasons to have a spiral head on either a planer or jointer. First, it is quieter. Second, it's quicker and easier to rotate a square carbide bit on the spiral head to get a new cutting edge than to remove, sharpen and align a blade.

Why do I have a spiral cutter head on my jointer? I have had it a nearly 3 years now. It's jointed a goodly amount of hardwood and I haven't had to rotate the cutters yet. But when I do, it won't take long and I won't have any alignments to perform.

I understand about finicky alignments. :) You reminded me of another good point. That the inserts are carbide and easily replaced and they align themselves.

[Danny Hamsley]

I have been down the same road! I had a DW 733 and planed many thousands of BF with it. It was a screaming banshee. My neighbor from 1/4 mile away would ask, "What are you doing over there?" The planer did a decent job, but there was a little tear-out sometimes. Then, I sold it and went with a 3 HP 15" planer with the carbide inserts on a spiral head. The difference is like having running water with an indoor bathroom versus a well and an outhouse. The difference is like an old carburetor with a distributor cap and points versus fuel injection. The difference is like a car with no seat belts and no air bags and a vehicle with 2013 safety features. I will never go back, never, never, ever........

[Myk Rian]

The Dewalt 735, however, is the noisiest of the small planers, and a lot of the noise comes from its gear box, which will not be affected by a new head of any sort. It is in many respects an excellent machine, but if noise is a concern then almost any other small modern machine will be quieter.
The gear box? I don't think so.
The gear box is the quietest component. The fan, motor, and knives make all the noise.
After putting a Byrd on mine, half the noise is gone.

[John Piwaron]

The gear box? I don't think so.
The gear box is the quietest component. The fan, motor, and knives make all the noise.
After putting a Byrd on mine, half the noise is gone.

Half the noise is gone? Is it tolerable? How are your results?

[Lorne Horvath]

I put a Byrd head on a 735 and found that the results were great but much slower as you can't take as much per pass as you can with the straight knives. I've since upgraded to a 15" 3 hp import with the Byrd head and couldn't be happier. Also recently put the Byrd head on my DJ20 and would not consider going back to straight knives on either machine.

[Danny Hamsley]

Like I said, never, never, ever................

[Kelby Van Patten]

I cannot speak to the specific options you mention, but I have a Laguna 20" planer with their spiral cutterhead. I use a lot of highly figured wood. I have never gotten any tearout whatsoever. The material comes off the planer ready for finish sanding with 320 grit. Snipe is less than .005". It is a very quiet tool, even when planing wide material.

I would not guarantee that a combo machine like the Hammer that is almost half the price would produce the same results; it probably would not. But if it's even half as good, you'll be very happy.

[Jim Matthews]

I have to wonder if there's a woodworking co-op nearby where you could test drive something like this, to compare virtues.

There's the appeal of the latest and greatest technologies applied to making big pieces into smaller ones
versus the portability and cost of the "second tier" devices. It might be cheaper in the long run to start buying lumber
near the finished dimensions. Let the lumberyard pay for the gear; yours will spend 90% of the time idle.

It's like owning a motorhome - unless you live in it, it's a depreciating and expensive lawn ornament.

[Peter Quinn]

The Hammer machine - if I were to tackle it's steep, steep price, bite the bullet so to speak, will it produce results noticeably better than a reworked DeWalt lunchbox?

I currently have a Delta DJ-20 jointer, a better jointer isn't really on my radar. In fact, I'm puzzled by why anyone would put a spiral cutter in a jointer when the planer is going to be the machine that does the bulk of the surfacing. With the exception of squaring an edge.

Will the Hammer perform better? I don't have one, but I have no doubt it will be night and day. I used a Dewalt 735, loud as sin, slow as molasses, works well. The lunch boxes are going to snipe more, just not enough machine holding down the stock all else being equal. I bough a very used 15" delta , put a byrd head in it, the head cost me twice what the planer did! Night and day versus the 735. Quieter, virtually no tear out, no to minimal snipe. IMO pretty much any small cast iron floor model or good combo is going to be heads above the lunch boxes.

On the spiral head on jointer, I have a DJ-20 with a byrd head. Three reasons. Its cheaper in the long run to use carbide inserts than keep sharpening straight knives. It's a fair bit quieter, and in my home shop, noise matters. And the surface quality is incredible. Sure, the faces of the boards will go through the planer, but the edges? I use a lot of mahogany and soft maple, both are very prone to tear out on edges. Going turtle slow with straight knives helps, but doesn't solve the problem. Spiral knives, problem solved. And sometimes I'm flattening stock where I have just enough room to flatten but not enough room to plane out a bunch of tear out on both faces. Spiral head wins again.

Every situation is different, but I wouldn't bother putting a spiral head on a 735, I'd take the next step up to a floor model, or look into the combo, the DJ 20 should be easy to sell, or keep if situation allows so you have a dedicated jointer up to 8", leave the combo in planer mode mostly but have the wider capacity jointing for occasional use. If I had a spiral on a combo I'd be using that jointer exclusively though.

[Myk Rian]

Every situation is different, but I wouldn't bother putting a spiral head on a 735, I'd take the next step up to a floor model, or look into the combo,
Not everybody has room for a floor model. People seem to forget that point.


Half the noise is gone? Is it tolerable? How are your results?
I can use it without hearing protection, but I don't.

[Peter Quinn]

Not everybody has room for a floor model. People seem to forget that point.


I can use it without hearing protection, but I don't.

My dc-380 has fold down infeed/outfeed tables. It's on wheels. It actually takes up less room than my dewalt 735 did when the tables are in the folded position, or at least the same space. I like the delta for the reason that the head moves and the tables are fixed allowing fold down tables. All the other floor models will require a much larger commitment of space because the tables move, so the extensions are generally iron, rigid, and permanently attached.


Down sides? You need 220 power, that is an obstical for some. And weight. I'm in a basement, I carried the dewalt in alone, it took 3 people to move the delta in and set it up, much heavier. But now that it's mobile, it's actually easier to move and more stabile in use than my 735 was, I could have set up the 735 better admittedly, but would have required more space, custom built stand, more of my time. My shop is around 1000sf, ere are a lot of machines stuffed in there, the milling area gets tight. My average length board is under 80", I'm set up to handle that easily, when I need to mill longer stock, everything rolls. Hassle, yes. My point is I'm always very aware that situations vary, not everyone has the same space, dust collection, electric capacity, etc. But a 15" floor model can potentially fit in all but the most micro of spaces depending on other factors. At least the delta models can, that's one thing they sure got right.

[mreza Salav]

Went from a DW 734 to a combo machine (minimax). I believe putting an expensive cutter head on a lunchbox planer is a waste. They are all screaming loud and 735 is even worse than 734 if that's what bothers you.

[Jeff Monson]

Adding a spiral head to a DW735 is a good move, if you are restricted for room. If you have good dust collection then take out the blower. I had a DW735 with a spiral head and the blower removed, it was very quite at that point and worked well. I have also owned a A3-31 which is a major step up from a lunchbox. Being able to joint a 12" board is a very nice thing. The A3-31 is a very nice and well built machine, but quite a step up in dollars. I do know of a used A3-31 that will be available soon, so if you are interested PM me and I can give you the details.

[Derek Stockley]

I went from a DW734 (and a typical 6" import jointer) to a Hammer A3-26. I don't have 1 millisecond's regret at spending that money. I didn't get the silent power cutter head, and I do somewhat regret not buying that as it is apparently a difficult retrofit. Noise was a big motivator for me because my house is semi-detached, but even the smaller A3-26 has WAY more power than the little universal motors in a lunchbox planer. And the A3-26 has almost EXACTLY the same footprint as my old 6" jointer. Haven't missed the 2" of planing capacity for a second. I wrote a detailed review of the A3-26 on my blog but I don't believe the forum rules allow me to link to it directly. You can find it by googling "Hammer A3-26 Review". It's pretty rare to find anybody complaining about the A3-31 too, which is what I would have bought if it weren't for space limitations.

[Jim Andrew]

I have moved up to the Grizzly GO453 PX, with the Grizzly spiral head. It is amazing compared to a lunchbox planer. Have found if I try to run it for a long time, the motor will overheat and to get it to run I have to let it cool and take the lid off the white box and push the reset button. My experience is that the spiral head is a big improvement over the straight knives, but still not perfect. I use my G9983 sander to finish panels, I plane to 13/16, and sand to 3/4". Then run over the panels with the ros. Forgot to mention that you can actually talk to someone while planing. The small widebelt sander has a fairly small footprint.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi, having owned a Hammer A3-31 for 5 years, I recommend you go that route.

If noise is a consideration, order it with their spiral head, the planer is fantastic, and what can more could you say about having a 12" wide jointer in the same footprint as a regular 6 inch jointer?

It was one of the best machine purchase I've made...............Start saving your pennies, and do yourself a favour, buy the metric planer height gauge and switch to metric, another change you'll appreciate.............Rod.

[Danny Hamsley]

Jim,

I have the same problem with my Grizzly GO 453Z planer if I try to plane off too much and bog the motor down. If you take the lid off the white box, you will see that there is a max amp adjustment where you can dial up the max amps a bit more and that will reduce the re-sets somewhat. Even with that, it is still a very nice planer for my use. Just can't bog it down.

[Mark Carlson]

Dito what Rod said. Option #3 if you can swing the cost. I have the A3-31 with a Byrd head and its produces an excellent finish and is very quiet versus a lunch box planer. My neighbors are really close and I have no problem shutting the garage door and planing.

~mark

[Jim Andrew]

Danny, thanks for the reply. How much do you turn up the amps? A buddy brought a stack of 1 x12 's over, and we ran them through, on the slow speed, taking off 1/16". Didn't think that should hurt the motor, but blew the reset twice.

[Danny Hamsley]

If I remember correctly, it was pre-set from the factory at like 15 amps and you can turn it up to like 17 amps, but I would have to look at it to guarantee the right numbers. I have a 20 amp circuit. I am assuming that the amp draw goes up the more the motor is under full load. I also believe that on my planer, I am getting close to the point where I need to turn the inserts. I have not turned them yet and I have had the planer for several years and have planed a lot of lumber through it. I expect that duller inserts will also cause the motor to load up more.

[James Bilsky]

Hello

I'm new to the forum, i recently purchased a Hammer A3-31 with Spiral Cutter, it's great - very smooth cut and very very quiet, in comparison to my old 13" Portable 2 Speed Delta - highly reccomend ~$4300

Jim

[seth henry]

having switched to a spiral cutterhead last year (on 15" powermatic) I can confirm all the virtues mentioned in this thread are true. I will point out thought that rotating the carbides is a real fussy annoying job and that if you do wear them out planing dirty wood they are really expensive (like $3 each, my cutterhead has about 120 of them). If you use outdoor dried wood invest in wire brushes and maybe keep a beater portable planer for the first passes.

[Danny Hamsley]

Seth,

I agree. All the wood that I plane gets the wire brush treatment. It will probably double blade life.

[Jim Andrew]

Danny, try spraying your inserts with sawblade cleaner, and take a toothbrush to it. My inserts were feeling dull, and I was going to turn them, then I noticed the dull look of the cutterhead and decided to try cleaning them first. Glad I did.

[Danny Hamsley]

Great suggestion.