do you hone your card scrapers?

[dan sherman]

For a while now I've been using card scrapers right off the mill file, and I wonder if anyone does the same. What I mean, is if the scraper is getting dull I take a few swipes with the file to joint the edge (a few seconds), and then its back to work. The finish the scraper leaves isn't super smooth, but it isn't that bad either, its takes some extreme raking light to notice the little tracks left by the scraper.

Full disclosure: I'm a hybrid woodworker, and really only use scrapers to true any unevenness in glue ups. attached is some shots of drawer bottoms i was working on tonight.

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[Chris Griggs]

What you're doing is totally fine for what you are using the scraper for. The burr from filing will certainly cut wood and even remove tearout, it just won't leave a finish ready surface. If you are preparing the surface for finishing with other methods (planes and/or sandpaper) this is of no consequence.

[Frank Trinkle]

There are a lot of YouTube videos with various techniques for sharpening a card scraper.
One of the most effective, and easiest (the method I use and it works just fine) is from Mathias Wandell as shown below. I have access to really nice German Made scrapers while I'm here in Germany, and they really hold an edge longer than the ones I've had from various markets in the U.S. The other nice thing is that they are VERY cheap here. No bells or whistles but really good steel. $3.00 /ea!

Here's the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEP84sKCgF0

Having said all that, I can't believe I just posted in the "Neanderthal Forum"! That's a first!!:eek:

[Tony Zaffuto]

When I prepare a card scraper, I'll take time to hone, using a block of wood to hold the card perpendicular to the stone and then hit the sides. I can then gete away with several burnishings before having to file & hone again.

I also have several other scraping tools that do a great job: LN 85 and small LN scraper plane. I have the LV equivalent of the Stanley 112, but just don't care that much for it and I would say the same for the Stanley 80 and several other similar tools. I find these tools don't require as much fussing to get them to work as a card does (but then again, that might be psychological, because of the pain in my wrists/thumbs from using card scrapers!!).

[David Weaver]

Finish card scraper (as in scrape and apply finish after the scrape), yes, to a 5k stone level. I don't really use a card scraper otherwise.

[Prashun Patel]

I also like to use my scraper for rougher work. However, off the mill file I roll a burr with a burnisher. Your curls look wonderful, so you're making me rethink even going that far.

Don't you find though that the scraper leaves a divot when leveling boards post glue-up?

[Bob Glenn]

I'm not an expert, but here is my experience. I use a hone after filing. With all due respects to the gentleman in video, I offer this. First, his method of filing will eventually dish or dome the edge of the scraper length wise. Instead of holding the file crosswise, I file with length of the file more in line with the edge. I think the reason he says he has to sharpen often is because he is burnishing at too great of an angle. This produces a very fragile edge which wears quickly. Also notice when he uses the scraper he is holding it at an extreme angle on the wood. This takes the edge off very quickly.

In my experience, a smaller hook will last a lot longer. I achieve this by burnishing with a light touch and a five to ten degree angle after honing. Then when using the scraper, push or pull it at an angle that doesn't take a shaving, then slowly increase the angle until it begins to cut.

[dan sherman]

I also like to use my scraper for rougher work. However, off the mill file I roll a burr with a burnisher. Your curls look wonderful, so you're making me rethink even going that far.


If it helps, I uses the finest 12" single cut Nicholson mill file I could get my hands on.





Don't you find though that the scraper leaves a divot when leveling boards post glue-up?

I'm sure it does to some extent, but I fare it out just like you would with any other tool.

[glenn bradley]

Short answer is Yes, I stone my card scrapers. But, there are so many uses for such a simple tool. I use scrapers to prepare for finishing. I have other scrapers for rough tasks and they do not get the finer treatment except for the carbide scraper; it gets diamond stoned to 1200.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

The fellow in the video appears to be using more pressure and passes in making that hook than I've been doing as of late - that heavy handed approach seems to make a burr that doesn't last long. A well-formed tiny burr tends to last longer for me, and a stoned burr tends to last longer as well. It sort of turns into a trade off. A quality scraper seems to make a big difference as well. As others have said though, how much preparation I put into it depends on the surface and use I'm looking for.

[David Doria]

Dan,

I've heard several people say to use a "single cut" mill file. Is that a critical property of the file for sharpening a scraper? What is bad about using a double cut file?

David

[David Weaver]

double cut files have a diamond pattern on them and don't leave a smooth surface (they leave jagged teeth instead of a continuous burr).

Second cut files are OK (second cut being like a bastard cut file but with smaller single cut teeth). A second cut file is probably better than a mill bastard file if you're not going to stone an edge.

Of course, if you find a large double cut file and it works for you, then it's hard to put stock in anyone telling you it won't work.

[glenn bradley]

What you're doing is totally fine for what you are using the scraper for. The burr from filing will certainly cut wood and even remove tearout, it just won't leave a finish ready surface. If you are preparing the surface for finishing with other methods (planes and/or sandpaper) this is of no consequence.

What Chris said ;-) I have scrapers that I hone and I have some that I just file. The difference is in what I use them for.

[David Doria]

Ok, I'll definitely try it. I've been using a double cut and not getting great results.

It seems like you are comparing "double cut" with "second cut"? My understanding (after reading about files for a while) was that the "tooth shape" choices are just "single cut", "double cut", or "rasp", while the fineness of the cut are "bastard", "second cut", and "smooth" (along with a few others, perhaps "coarse", etc.). Is this correct? So what I really want is a "smooth, single cut", and second best would be a "second cut, single cut"?

[David Weaver]

Yes, right on the tooth shapes and sizes.

If you keep the file oriented right and the teeth are good, clean and even on the file, it probably won't matter too much what size the teeth are, but the smallest single cut teeth and the flattest file are two desirable qualities if you're going to use only the file.

IIRC, there is a "made" file for card scrapers that one of the tool gadget makers (glen drake?) puts out - it has tiny teeth single cut on it and was made specifically to do what this thread is talking about - condition a scraper edge. It might have rounded edges to do the burnishing, too.

Most card scrapers are small enough that you can just go to HD and get a single cut mexican file that isn't gigantic, and it will do what you need it to do - just sight down the files in the boxes and make sure they're straight if you go that route.

[dan sherman]

this will help terminology wise.
http://www.apexhandtools.com/brands/nicholson_files/file_terminology.pdf


This is the drake file.
http://play-glen-drake.com/v-web/ecommerce/os/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=31&products_id=66&osCsid=91bc1e110a25d1388fc01ffe34e8c7d9

Like david said, you want a single cut file, that's as flat and as fine as possible.

[Shawn Pixley]

I hone those used for finishing. I keep one around for gross scraping (glue squeeze out primarily). This I'll just use off the file.

[Bruce Haugen]

Matt Wandel is very smart and makes some ingenious machines and adaptations, but I disagree with his approach to sharpening a scraper. His method of filing is okay, but I run the file as close to parallel to the scraper as possible. I hone the edge while it is in the vise. It only takes a minute, and that extra time is worth the effort. Then, using a burnisher, I apply light pressure to the edge of a scraper, at maybe 5°. Don't bear down on the burnisher unless you're looking for a glue scraper. I use mine for scraping applied finishes, as well, so I want that burr pretty fine.

[Jim Neeley]

As a sidebar here, a scraper with a fine burr, lightly used, does an awesome job of removing nibs between coats of finish.

For open grain woods, such as walnut and oak, it has the advantage of not creating the microfine white powder that sandpaper does that fills up pores and discolors the wood. Even using air or wet/dry towels can't compete with never creating the powder to begin with.

Next time you're getting ready to finish a project, plane a small scrap of walnut smooth and apply finish as you're doing your project. Then try using a scraper on some of it and your usual sandpaper on the rest. I think you'll be very pleasantly surprised.

Jim in Alaska

[Mel Fulks]

When I've had to remove a lot of wood,like feathering out damage , sometimes I file ,debur with a piece of soft aluminum,then burnish. But for finish work I do hone.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Along the lines of what Jim Neeley mentions; I love a scraper for some types of finish; works great. A tip I picked up from Frank Ford's website for larger nibs or drips was to add a couple of slips of scotch or painters tape to straddle the drip or whatever you're scraping - allows you scrape just where you want and get it low enough the last coat will blend it quite well without showing as a distortion. For small jobs like that, turning a small hook on a razor blade can work quite well, too.

[Jeff Baldwin]

For much of my work, I draw file the scraper quickly with a medium size mill file. Square the burr caused by the draw filing with a couple of quick swipes of the file used flat faced along the scraper and, then roll burr with a 3/8 ths round drill rod burnisher. It gives me an edge which, depending on the thickness of the scraper, will do an excellent job for most work. Draw filing allows for easy sighting for squaring the edge to the sides. It leaves the smoothest surface and a sharp corner to form into a sharp hook. I rarely use a stone on a scraper after I have shaped it. To obtain finer results for leveling finish for instance, a scraper can be prepared the same way on a thinner scraper. A thinner scraper results in a
smaller hook and a flexible tool that can touch down mid panel to level. For finishing edges the Frank Ford trick works great.

[Roderick Gentry]

I certainly have stoned them, but most of the time I touch them to a metal cutting belt sander, turn the edges and enjoy the results. I am probably running 80 grit, but I could be finishing to a hair popping level with some of the belts that are available.

[Bill McDermott]

Glenn Bradley,

Can you tell us more about the carbide scraper you use and how you sharpen it?

I finished a big fiberglass/epoxy job and found that carbide scrapers are astoundingly long lasting. It is simply a superb tool that eliminates any need for sanding the epoxy. Now I find myself grabbing it for more traditional card scraper applications.

The tool I use is a handled scraper, made by Bahco. Is this what you are talking about? I did not know you could sharpen these replaceable carbide blades, but I like to. In any case, they last an amazingly long time.

Thanks. Bill