Plain Stropping - Looking for Advice

[Russell Cook]

Hi all,

I've been reading a lot about how stropping with a trailing stroke on untreated leather, newspaper, palm of a hand, denim etc can improve the edge on a tool.

I was hoping to ask 3 main questions.

1) Are the materials listed above all reasonable?

2) How important is the absolute flatness of the surface when doing this?

3) How important is the angle you strop at? My impression is that this kind of stropping is not removing material apart from the wire edge, so the hitting the perfect angle is not essential as you aren't in danger of rounding the edge.

Any tips would be great.

[John Coloccia]

My opinion in red


Hi all,

I've been reading a lot about how stropping with a trailing stroke on untreated leather, newspaper, palm of a hand, denim etc can improve the edge on a tool.

I was hoping to ask 3 main questions.

1) Are the materials listed above all reasonable?
IMHO, leather is the most reasonable :)

2) How important is the absolute flatness of the surface when doing this?
Completely unimportant. Obviously, it should be somewhat flat, but just a piece of plywood or MDF is PLENTY flat. I'm sure your bench is plenty flat as well. I tend to use with MDF, Mahogany or Maple to make my strops because I always seem to have an abundance of those materials around.


3) How important is the angle you strop at? My impression is that this kind of stropping is not removing material apart from the wire edge, so the hitting the perfect angle is not essential as you aren't in danger of rounding the edge.
Depends on how much pressure you're using. Yes, you can round over the edge. In practice, I take the last couple of wipes at a greater angle than the bevel, and I do so very very very lightly...maybe not even the weight of the iron. Very light :) Other than that, I do try to generally hit the same angle as the bevel. I don't worry about it too much. I just try to be reasonable about it. If you think about it too much you'll never learn to feel it, so just do it and experiment.

Any tips would be great.

[David Barbee]

Any medium that will hold the stropping compound and is relatively flat will work for stropping. Many favorites are leather (both smooth side up and down), cardboard, mdf, wood block, etc. Some folks prefer a harder stropping surface, some don't. Both work fine, i prefer leather. This is really something you shouldn't over think. I feel 100% positive that you will be successful your first time. My technique is really simple. Find your bevel as if your were free hand sharpening. Pull the chisel/plane iron over the strop surface but stop short of the end of the strop, then lift the chisel/plane straight up off the strop. Don't be tempted to tilt the chisel/plane up at the end of your stroke. This will round over your cutting edge.

I keep a strop on my bench when I'm doing chisel intensive work, such as chopping dovetails. I'll chop my dovetails an then strop the chisel before I begin any clean up. This keeps the chisel sharp. You will spend a lot less time at the stones if you keep your chisels stropped at the bench. When you notice that stropping isn't getting the chisels as sharp as normal, its time to go back to the stones. It generally just takes a few strokes with your medium stone to get your keen edge back.

For me, stropping took my sharpening to a whole new level. It took me my edges from sharp to super sharp and most importantly, I spend more time working and not standing in from of a waterstone pond. Gets some compound and give it a try.

David B.

[David Barnett]

I've been reading a lot about how stropping with a trailing stroke on untreated leather, newspaper, palm of a hand, denim etc can improve the edge on a tool.

I was hoping to ask 3 main questions.

1) Are the materials listed above all reasonable?


1. Yes, although some will work better or make more sense than others.

The surface roughness of human skin, from Nanotribological Characterization of Human Hair and Skin Using Atomic Force Microscopy (http://www.mecheng.osu.edu/nlbb/files/nlbb/LaTorre_Thesis.pdf), is measured at 80 ± 28 nm, or 0.59 ± 0.2 μm. The silica content of skin, such as the human palm, varies individually and with age. Less dry, somewhat dubious but perhaps more entertaining is Human Skin Strops (http://www.devilspenny.com/2009/05/human-skin-strops/) — A Gruesome Traffic Carried on by Impecunious Operators in the Dissecting Room:

"It is also well known that a razor can be nicely finished on the palm of the hand. This fact led to the use of small crude strops made of bits of flesh, secured in the dissecting-room. The possibilities of this human flesh strop appealed so forcibly to the practical mind of one of the students that he began experiments which resulted in the introduction very quietly on the market of a razor strop made of human flesh."

Paper and other pressed fiber materials such as felt, can make effective strops. The fibers of papers moulded and couched by hand, that is, papers with the less aligned fibers from the mouldman's "shake" of the mould* to lock the longer fibers, seem better than machine mould made and continuously formed (Kraft, etc.) papers, at least to me.

Linen has long been used those who favor it for straight razors.

Leather, treated and untreated, works well, with horse butt held in high regard.

There are other stropping surfaces, of course, but these are the ones you mentioned.

I'll leave it to others to address 2 and 3.

*Papermaking: The History and Technique of an Ancient Craft (http://www.amazon.com/Papermaking-History-Technique-Ancient-Craft/dp/0486236196), Dard Hunter.

[Chris Griggs]

I'm one of those weirdo's who, as Dave W puts it "has an aversion to leather". Though I have used some scraps of leather I had around in the past its not something I have/use anymore so can't really speak for that.

What I can say is I've tried a number of non-leather mediums, and of them my favorite is my palm. Paper/newspaper works ok, as does a pant leg but for bare stropping without compound my palm is unquestionably my preference. With compound, I like balsa as a medium the best. I also have one of those Wood Is Good synthetic urethane strops that works with compound (not bare), and its what I use in the shop but I like balsa better (which is what I use for my razor compounds)

[and...no I'm not telling you or anyone else not to use leather, I'm not preacher. Just sharing my experience :-)]

[Stuart Tierney]

Hi Russell,

Very quickly as my time is limited...

(Always!)

1; All of the materials are completely reasonable, I've used them all and they all work. I am tending to use my palm more often, for which you can blade Dave Weaver.

2; My palm is NOT flat, and if it was, I'd be worried. Flat is not so important, but it's nice if you can get it.

3; Very slight angle, nothing more. This kind of 'stropping' is merely making sure the slip of metal at the very edge is pointing in the right direction, and any remnants of wire edge/feathering are teased away from it. Maybe there is a very slight abrasion going on, but mostly it's simply to make sure everything is pointing where it should be and nothing that'll degrade or damage the edge is in place.

If you need compound to bring up the edge, that's something else entirely. Most folks I see are using a loaded strop of some kind, and it's a completely different animal to simply cleaning up an already good edge by effectively 'wiping' it against something.

I'll not go into stropping with abrasive compounds on the strop. I'll go so far as to say that I do not do so unless the edge is an unusual shape.

Stu.

[Bruce Mack]

I also will not use leather. MDF or the Wood Is Good strop, each with chromium oxide, work for me. The urethane seems better for curved carving gouges.

[David Weaver]

Hi Russell,

for which you can blade Dave Weaver.


Ouch!

palm strop is excellent for a fine edge, it does what you need it to do.

Any leather is nice, I personally like the smooth side out on anything that I've used because it makes it a lot easier to keep the leather clean, and clean is important.

The worse the edge (e.g., if you come off of a washita stone, leather > than palm only because the edge isn't ready for the palm yet) the better leather fares vs. palm. On an edge of that level, it really makes no difference leather out or in, but on a smoother quality edge where smoother finishes the surface of the wood, a clean smooth side is better. (no shavers strop their razors last step with anything but smooth, and the smoother the surface the better the edge - freshly made horween shell is tops of everything I've ever used, but it is not durable. The leather is, but the surface treatment is not, and it's above woodworking price).

Pressure of stropping can also vary with edge finish. A properly sharpened fine stoned edge (trans ark, fine waterstone, etc) needs a very clean strop and little pressure. There isn't much to remove, but the edge will still be improved. Maybe not practically for woodworking, but the sharpness will be better.

Sorry to impose my ridiculous thoughts. In the last two years, I have paid a lot of attention to various strop materials trying to get around paying a lot for a designer leather strop. In the end, I did buy a shell of horween, a couple of horse butt strips (which is a lot of leather) and veg tanned cowhide, and then a kanayama shell cordovan strop (no clue where their shell comes from, it was a lot different than horween)

8 or 9 ounce veg tanned smooth cowhide is good as any for tools (well, horse butt is a little better esp. if you're going to use goop) and it's cheap. Horsebutt once broken in is arguably better, but it was a month of stropping before my horse butt strop's strong silica actually stopped decreasing the sharpness of the razor after honing. Horse butt often has wrinkles and such in it, and sometimes veg. tanned cowhide isn't as smooth as people say it is. If it's coarse, just oil it up pretty good so it doesn't hurt the edge too much.

Whatever anyone does, if you use any strop as an improvement to a fine stone, keep it clean. Any particles, even on soft leather, will ding a chunk right out of an edge or scratch it up. store it in a drawer or take it out of the wood shop when not in use, whatever.

One other thing for the newbies, a very sharp edge will shave hair easily (as in one pass and everything is gone without much pressure and regardless of cutting angle) on both sides. you can only do that if the wire edge or remaining particles are off of the cutting edge, and you weren't too rough with final stropping (otherwise heavy handed stropping will just point the edge one way or another).

If you use a "tweener" sharpening stone, like a hard arkansas or even a black or trans ark, notice that you can strop an edge on your palm quickly and actually bend the particles around and choose which side shaves the best. There's no reason to have a razor quality (both sides shave easily) in the shop.

[Jonathan McCullough]

I really like the idea of having a urethane strop. Seems like it would be uniform and take chromium powder nicely.

[Chris Griggs]

I really like the idea of having a urethane strop. Seems like it would be uniform and take chromium powder nicely.

Its okay. The one problem I had with it is the thin piece of wood it was attached to cupped pretty badly. Now it certainly doesn't need to be dead flat but the cupping was bad enough on mine that I noticed it. As in it polished a tiny back bevel on a couple of my chisels...nothing major that couldn't be honed right out but not ideal. So anyway, I peeled the urethane off the handled piece of wood, and now I just set it on my bench which is flat enough. I'll probably glue it down to a piece of walnut, that has already acclimated and moved a little after being planed flat and just make sure I glue it to the side the is slightly convex as opposed to slightly concave (or just stick it to some mdf)

I also don't think it works that well with dry abrasive, so when I sprinkle CrOx on it I add a couple drop of mineral oil or water and sorta paint it all over...and yes this gives it a nice uniform coating.

Anyway, I do find it to be nicer and more uniform than just MDF, but realy mdf or balsa do the same thing. The urethane is fairly firm which is nice...i like a bit of firmness when I'm using compounds as it helps avoid rounding over. I'd really like to fine something slick, hard, and non abrasive to apply my CrOx to so I can take strokes in both directions and use it like and ultra fine stone.

(to Dave's point about contamination...I keep mine wrapped up in a paper towel when not in use. You definitely do not want loose grit that is floating around you basement workshop to contaminate your final step in the honing process)

[george wilson]

I'd think that after the human skin got dried out,it'd be no better than normal leathers. I haven't gotten weird enough to want to try it!!:)

I think David Weaver is likely the strop expert here. I have used a cowhide leather strop,smooth side out,most of my career. Lately,I have made an MDF strop with chromium oxide on it. It works well,too. Somehow,I'm more concerned about dust in the shop getting on the rigid surface of the MDF that I was about dust on the leather. I blow them off,but I guess I think the dust would tend to sink into the leather as a blade passed over it,as opposed to getting ground into the edge on the rigid MDF strop. Maybe I'm paranoid!! The leather strop with some Simichrome or CrO has served me quite well.

[Tony Shea]

Interesting. I knew there were some geeks (including myself) about sharpening, but stropping past the point CrOx seems a bit obsessive when you're in the shop. Even when dealing with pine I can't imagine needing my edge that sharp. Don't get me wrong, I am very OCD about getting my edge just about perfect but going past a compound and strop should be limited to those honing something other than woodworking tools.

I'm not sure what everyone else does for a living or how hard they work their hands, but I think stropping on my palm is a step backwards even compared to my 8000 stone. David W. talks about contamination and avoiding it, well there just isn't any avoiding it on my palms. Just today I have been crawling around in an interstitial crawl space above a laboratory running conduit for temperature control wires. Just the crawling on my hands has contaminated them for at least a week after I am no longer up there. Metal shavings, wood splinters, fiber glass duct insulation, and probably worst of all the hard calluses that feel like a piece of 120 grit sandpaper. Just saying.

But in all seriousness I truly think stropping on something without compound is probably not needed when dealing with woodworking tools.

[paul cottingham]

I have two strops I use regularly, a horsebutt one and a maple one. I charge them both with green rouge, and they work great. Don't ask why I have two, I don't really know myself. :-)
i have been using them with pressure, cause a well know woodworking personality does it that way. I'll have to try it more gently as well.

[Chris Griggs]

But in all seriousness I truly think stropping on something without compound is probably not needed when dealing with woodworking tools.

Think of it more as being two different things. Bare stropping doesn't really take things past the point of compound so much as it takes the edge you have and maximizes it by aligning the edge and removing any remaining burr.

Stropping with compound I really just think of as honing on a very very fine stone, especially on a really hard surface.

Your hands are definitely dirtier than mine.... I spend all day at a keyboard, working with databases, spreadsheets, and statistical software...doesn't exactly get my hands dirty.:)

[David Barnett]

I also have one of those Wood Is Good synthetic urethane strops that works with compound (not bare), and its what I use in the shop but I like balsa better (which is what I use for my razor compounds).

I've tried all manner of strops, and while urethanes do work, I've found promising non-leather alternatives in both the bookbinding and shoe industries. Clarino (http://www.clarino-am.com/)™, a dense nylon-polypropylene based microporous leather simulant from Kuraray, is versatile and worth consideration. I have strops made from samples, sueded and natural, and it can be used neat or charged.

So many materials, so little time. Me? I love parchments, vellums and horse butt.

[David Weaver]

I think David Weaver is likely the strop expert here.

I'm sure I've used more stuff than most folks, but I'll yield to Dave B, especially when the going gets weird.

[John Coloccia]

re: leather strops, expense, etc
I get my leather from the scrap bin of my local Tandy leather. I have a lot of leather around the shop for various reasons, and I doubt I paid more than $20 for all of it.

[Chris Griggs]

I've tried all manner of strops, and while urethanes do work, I've found promising non-leather alternatives in both the bookbinding and shoe industries. Clarino (http://www.clarino-am.com/)™, a dense nylon-polypropylene based microporous leather simulant from Kuraray, is versatile and and worth consideration. I have strops made from samples, sueded and natural, and it can be used neat or charged.

So many materials, so little time. Me? I love parchments, vellums and horse butt.

Dave. Thank you. I will definitely need to get my hands on this stuff. There are plenty of good options when it comes to bases for micro compounds, but something non-animal that is useful bare is hard to find.

[Winton Applegate]

Don't strop plane blades.
Period.
Of course if you are like many you won't believe me so here is how to strop.
Here is a link to a sound way to strop. Using a hard surface so there is no rounding of the cutting edge.
http://www.finewoodworking.com/how-to/ar... (http://www.finewoodworking.com/how-to/article/sharp-and-sharper.aspx)
I no longer use the maple strop but I did for a while to explore that option.
It works.
I have gone hog wild on sharpening stones so I just use those now.
I am including a couple of photos : one is my maple strop, which is in between the leather strop with the screws in it and the stone, which is an old red 1200 grit King brand water stone. The other photo is my current stable of sharpening stones. Hmmm actually I have added one more stone since that photo was taken; a 120 grit white Shapton. It is the larger white stone with the 120 printed on it. A must have for me. I don't hollow grind so I don't want to wait long to reshape an edge. I recommend the Shaptons in the Pro series. They are worth the money.

Soft surfaces for stropping are a disaster for edge geometry. The near equivalent of partially dulling the edge. Think on a microscopic level; the last thou or two at the edge. Don't believe me yet ? Get some purple heart wood, find the right edge geometry for the plane type you are using which is roughly a cutting angle of 52º to 65º with at least 12 degrees of clearance angle.

Sharpen FLAT facets, no stropping, on the blade using flat sharpening stones and a good jig such as the Varitas.
Why the purple heart? It is so hard it doesn't compress much. It is an unforgiving wood that is easily obtainable and not that expensive. Softer wood compresses and so can be planed with errors in the edge. My point is when you need to plane the harder woods and high figure wood such as the curly maples etc., if your sharpening is sloppy you will have locked in bad habits and will spend a lot of time trying to make your planes work for you without tear out and chatter.
The purple heart will tear out, chatter and just plane kick your ace. Once you get your sharpening "honed" as it were for this wood you can back off on the angles some and know that you KNOW how to create optimum cutting edges for the hand plane.

Plane the wood counting the strokes or figure the square footage planed and the number of repeat layers off the whole surface. In general just pay attention to how much wood you can cut with the blade before it gets too dull to use. Plane until the blade stops cutting. It will feel like you need to advance the blade to get complete shavings and then it will start to chatter and skip across some of the surface. Don't advance the blade. Just stop at that time.

Resharpen the blade as you did before then strop it on a leather strop (or other magic material) with your choice of abrasives (I can list about five that I have tested over the years if you want to go through all of that yourself).
Then try to get the same amount of planing done. The blade will cut less deep, it will stop cutting sooner and chatter sooner.

The up side is the blade edge area will look very pretty and shiny after stropping and the act of stropping is a totally brainless activity. Any one can do it and it makes an extremely sharp edge for shaving hair off your arm, or face. However the edge will be less than it could be for putting in a hand plane which locks it at a fixed angle which may conflict with the roundy edge on the end of the blade.

Never confuse performance cutting arm hair with determining edge geometry for milling wood (or metal for that matter).
Stropping is for carving chisels and pocket knives. My latest pocket knife is a Cold Steel :
http://www.coldsteel.com/Product/TUFF-LITE.20_SERIES/TUFF-LITE_SERIES.aspx
Sorry link does not work; just paste in the google search field (not the HTML field) press enter to search and then click the link in the google list of choices.
My new knife came with a microscopically hollow ground secondary bevel on a hollow ground main bevel. Not an optimal edge geometry for making a house out of a rock but it is the sharpest, from the factory, edge on a pocket knife I have ever experienced.
So I have to say stropping pocket knives is some what suspect in my camp. The Cold Steel blade company seems to agree with me.

[Steve Friedman]

Winton,

I agree completely. I thought I was crazy and didn't believe that my blades could become less sharp after stropping. I now go from my 13000 Sigma directly to wood - no stropping - and the results are amazing. I think Chris' palm stopping may be fine, but anything more definitely degrades my edges.

Steve

[Winton Applegate]

Palm stropping
Steve,
Well yes of course. I agree there.
Palm stopping lies more in the realm of magic, on the order of crossing ones fingers and knocking on wood. No one knows why it works, and you would be struck by lightening if you ever found out.
But . . . yes I do that to.
:cool:
PS: . . . though . . . I first make sure, using magnification if necessary, I don't have any foily wire edge thing that I am prematurely breaking off by palm stropping.
Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope,
. . . all the wire edge comes off on the stones first.

[David Weaver]

Winton,

I agree completely. I thought I was crazy and didn't believe that my blades could become less sharp after stropping. I now go from my 13000 Sigma directly to wood - no stropping - and the results are amazing. I think Chris' palm stopping may be fine, but anything more definitely degrades my edges.

Steve

No great reason to strop off of any of the stones 1 micron and below. A clean and smooth strop will improve them, but smooth is a subjective statement. By it, I mean leather that reflects light. With horse butt, that means after some wear, and with cowhide, it means selective surface finish (like a new razor strop).

It's very hard to keep a strop in that shape in your shop, as soon as it's dirty it has a chance of doing bad things.

That's all just hot air, though, the possible improvement from a bare strop off of a 13k is probably blown off in one or two plane passes.

Strops do better off of natural stones, too, it's sometimes hard to notice much off of deep-groove synthetic stones.

If anyone gets a piece of leather and glues it to a piece of wood to make a paddle strop, and then finds that their leather is wrinkly or has marks in it, you can sand strops before they are loaded with oil or anything of the sort. It's common practice to bring back older razor strops that have nasty surfaces that are dried up, have bumps on them (from a drop of water swelling the surface), etc.

[David Barnett]

Of course there's leather and then there's leather, that is, horse butt. And then there's horse butt and then there's horse butt.

Winton Applegate, while giving mostly useful information and opinions—I used to sharpen much like he does when I began and for certain tools, still do—makes several judgments, some correct, some less so, against stropping but fails to make distinctions as to leathers so employed, whether through disregard or limited understanding that such distinctions even exist.

He is right, of course, that too-soft stropping surfaces can produce rounding or dubbing of edges and that improper stropping technique on harder, more suitable surfaces, can yield the same. I will further agree that those not properly introduced to stropping more often make a mess of things than not until they either figure it out or give it up altogether.

I know—not everyone makes, understands or cares about these distinctions, but there are differences, differences that make a difference. I'll explain. First, though, let me address your last statement.


If anyone gets a piece of leather and glues it to a piece of wood to make a paddle strop, and then finds that their leather is wrinkly or has marks in it, you can sand strops before they are loaded with oil or anything of the sort. It's common practice to bring back older razor strops that have nasty surfaces that are dried up, have bumps on them (from a drop of water swelling the surface), etc.

Horse butt doesn't wrinkle. Period. Unlike other leathers, only horse butt has this singular property—one of several features that make horse butt uniquely ideal for stropping. And not just any horse butt, mind you, but horse butts with the epidermis carefully removed to expose the subcutaneous layer known as the shell, hence the term shell cordovan for the most desirable oval section of the horse butt—a term denoting a specific section of equine leather processed in a particular manner.

The shell is not the hide but the fibrous flat muscle beneath the hide. And horse butt strops are not from cordovan ovals but are made from the remainder of the butt from which the ovals are cut.

http://home.comcast.net/~d.j.barnett/HorseButt.jpg

This strip is still butt, of course, but not the more desirable section intended for cordovan.

(I realize you know this, David, as you have Horween (http://horween.com/leathers/shell-cordovan/) leather, the last real commercial maker of genuine cordovan shells in North America, but am fleshing out the subject for those who don't.)

These strips undergo less processing than the final shell ovals and without going too deeply into it, this makes them especially suited for stropping. The butts, or the rear hide portions cut on a dividing line perpendicular to the spine, are first tanned the run through the splitter, a machine that shaves away the grain side leaving the shell, the muscle layer beneath the hide itself.

The collagen fibers of the shell layer are more densely packed than in the hide, and more densely packed than in any non-equine animal used to make leather. They're also aligned and bundled differently than hide. An oversimplified but perhaps useful way to think of these tightly bundled fibers would be to analogize them to end grain wood, but unlike porous end grain wood, and unlike all other leathers made from the hides of animals, the shell hasn't any pores, the next significant distinction.

These already tightly bound fibers become still tighter through subsequent processing, interstitial liquorings and stuffings that further shrinks the shell, making it extremely resistant to compression, a further distinction. These shells are so very compressed that one can strop very narrow chisels, gouges and even gravers without compromising the strop surface—try that with any other leather. Now the butts have reached the point where irregular ovals are usually cut for the final processes that will transform them into cordovan.

At this point, the strips, tight grained and resistant to compression as they are, still retain some ability to absorb more stuffing (waxes, oils, emollients) and solvent or oil-based aniline dyes, but are now more resistant to aqueous solutions. Cordovan shells are sometimes hand stuffed at this point and can be hand dyed if specified or drum dyed.

With the exception of final hand glazing of cordovan shells, all added processes must be completed before the leather is jacked. Both cordovan shells and remnant butt shells are then passed between rollers and pressed to the final density required. The butt strips are calendered soft or hard and are now ready for our use. Before I go on, I need to clarify what soft and hard mean in context of jacked horse butts.

Hard is very dense and hard, indeed, but soft is also as dense and nearly as hard. Hard jacked butts are calendered differently, the rollers leaving a slicker, shinier surface, whereas soft butts are more matte and feel slightly more velvety to the touch, rather than looking and feeling slick with a polished to vitreous luster.


A clean and smooth strop will improve them, but smooth is a subjective statement. By it, I mean leather that reflects light. With horse butt, that means after some wear, and with cowhide, it means selective surface finish (like a new razor strop).

Generally, we want the soft jacked surface for stropping, as it gives that slightest but important drag on a tool's edge and better purchase should any abrasive compound be applied. As this distinction has often been misunderstood, strops with the hard jacking can allow a tool to skate until the surface of the shell is abraded enough to be considered broken in. If one does have such a strop, the surface can be brushed (sueded) or abraded (emerized) to render it more effective at removing microscopic steel edge particles and allow for better compound purchase and presentation.

After the initial nap of the leather becomes sleeked from use, it will develop that irridescent sheen characteristic of horse butt shell, reaching that confluence of factors that make it prized for the final polishing of tool edges, which is what I'm assuming you mean, David, when you say "reflects light".

A final distinction; shell strop will not compress as will other leather hides so will not dub. By the way, find dry abrasive compounds generally produce results superior to wax or oil based compounds, but properly selected and conditioned horse butt requires very little to no compound whatsoever to yield excellent results.

Also, it's often useful to make strops from the side of the leather that was rolled through the slower roller, the side with the less polished appearance, although I generally prefer the smoother side. It's up to the user which side is to be preferred.


It's very hard to keep a strop in that shape in your shop, as soon as it's dirty it has a chance of doing bad things.

I faithfully cover my strops and laps between uses and often lightly brush both with a squirrel mop or sable wash brush. Vacuuming can help, too.

Lastly, if one wishes one or two horse butt strops, it's far easier to buy them from Joel at Tools for Working Wood. Although he apologizes for their price, he needn't, as they're fairly priced and well worth it bypass the locating, buying and making strops from shell strips, which can be variable in quality and not so conveniently worked as lesser stropping leathers.

Jeff Peachey, the bookbinder and toolmaker who has long produced these strops, charges more for his—his mounted strop is $75—and Joel charges less than Jeff for his 15" x 3" strop, so TFWW is the place to get that smooth, firm butt so many of us have come to know and love. Nothing else like it. Nothing better.

[David Weaver]

I'll have to find my butt strips. They are a bit wrinkled, though not in the same way as cowhide would be wrinkled, it's more like undesirable waves. My viewpoint of things is polluted by the aspects of certain leathers being ideal for razors, though, so what may be optimal for tools (the most important to me is clean, the rest of the details are less important since I don't load anything but balsa) probably goes over my head.

The horsebutt gets used smooth side against the edge for a razor strop, there is a whole debate there about draw on razors, but I tend to gravitate toward none because that yields the keenest edge. For tools, though, the edge is not nearly in such fine shape when it hits the strop (I just use 9 ounce veg tanned cowhide in the shop with the exception of one loaded strop that I decided was no good for razors - that one is horse butt strip glued to a cherry board and the horse butt is so hard that if you tap on it, it makes the same sound as wood. It is a fabulous surface to load with powder - i also don't use wax crayons unless I can add mineral oil to the mix, and that kind of stuff is off limits for razors).

The horween is the best I've used (for razors, it's incredibly expensive for anything else, off limits for woodworking), the hand finish on it is so slick with zero draw that it yields the keenest of shaving edges. Chris is really cheating himself on that one. But that finish wears off after a couple of thousand shaves. That may sound ridiculous, but I personally would expect a $200 strop to not be something I'd have to replace every 4 or 5 years. Horse butt, on the other hand, will get slicker and my strop with about 500 shaves on it has gotten better and better, for a total cost of about $10 including the hardware. I have only used my home-made horween strop a few times because my razor has spinework on it which is hard on strops, and when the strop costs more than the razor, you tend to spare the strop rather than indulge the razor.

Butt strips cost me about $25 if I recall, there was enough in one to make two razor strops and then a half dozen other small bench strops out of the stuff that was a little more wavy (wavy and curled edges and things of that like will never go in a hanging strop).

And you're right about the horween shell (which was explained to me as the layer below the skin that twitches when the horse twitches flies off), it is thin and it is hard, but it is still pliable to bending where hard horse butt is stiff and needs to be worked.

The price of a #2 shell when I got one was $200 delivered. That's about 1.75 square feet. I know we're talking about tools here, but that cost was justified only because I was using it to make a razor strop for half of what a "made" razor strop costs and with much more leather in it. I shipped the remaining amount off to a watch band maker who gave me $75 for the remaining two thirds, and then complained about the price :rolleyes:

And, by the way, for anyone wanting to get a horse butt strip off of ebay or on the internet somewhere, and who is worried about how you'll cut it without bunching the edges, it cuts very well with a steel straight edge and any sharp marking knife. Cordovan does the same. Cowhide also, though cowhide is softer and grabs a little more. As dave says, horse butt strips are better if it matters.

[David Weaver]

Here is a picture from another place, the edges of these pieces are somewhat like the strip that I got on ebay. I don't know anything about this dealer, and am not endorsing them as a supplier, the price seems a bit high to me compare with what shows up on ebay. But, you can see what I called wrinkles, they are the kind of thing that are totally unacceptable on a razor strop (which must be perfect through the use area to ensure light even pressure on the edge) but wouldn't amount to diddle squat with tools.

http://www.chichesterinc.com/Images2011/1106-10-AS-Header-Lg.jpg

[David Barnett]

Here is a picture from another place, the edges of these pieces are somewhat like the strip that I got on ebay. But, you can see what I called wrinkles...

David, although I could be wrong, that looks to be not the shell but the hide sliced to expose the shell—the part of both fronts and butts often used by glovers, as confirmed in your link. The shell strip should be around 6 to 8 ounces. Chichester's is only 3 ounces and looks nothing nearly so smooth or flat as the butts from Siegel of CA (https://www.siegelofca.com/itemdetail.asp?prodid=1152) or other suppliers where I've bought mine.

These black butts appear to be tanned, dyed and although unglazed would be unlikely, again in my opinion, to be over any especial value for strops. Siegel charged by the pound and were available in two weights and in either soft-rolled or hard-rolled.

The edges in the linked picture are unlike any shells I've ever seen. Butt shells have no wrinkles, on the surface or the edges. None. And there is no top grain—no flesh side or grain side, whatsoever. Siegel's butts are heavy and hard, bendy but just so—no waves or ripples. I preferred them on the lighter side for strops, say around 6 ounces.

I don't remember how much mine cost a decade ago, but they were cheap—I want to say around $15 per strip, maybe. Supply was variable, however, and when I'd see them available, I'd pick up two or three, which is about what I have remaining. It's been years since I've ordered any leathers from anywhere except parchments, vellums, galuchat or bookbinding calf and goat.

[Mel Fulks]

And I always thought being called a 'horses ass' was pejorative .Even more confusing is that the bottom is the top.

[David Weaver]

David, although I could be wrong, that looks to be not the shell but the hide sliced to expose the shell—the part of both fronts and butts often used by glovers, as confirmed in your link. The shell strip should be around 6 to 8 ounces. Chichester's is only 3 ounces and looks nothing nearly so smooth or flat as the butts from Siegel of CA (https://www.siegelofca.com/itemdetail.asp?prodid=1152) or other suppliers where I've bought mine.

These black butts appear to be tanned, dyed and although unglazed would be unlikely, again in my opinion, to be over any especial value for strops. Siegel charged by the pound and were available in two weights and in either soft-rolled or hard-rolled.

The edges in the linked picture are unlike any shells I've ever seen. Butt shells have no wrinkles, on the surface or the edges. None. And there is no top grain—no flesh side or grain side, whatsoever. Siegel's butts are heavy and hard, bendy but just so—no waves or ripples. I preferred them on the lighter side for strops, say around 6 ounces.

I don't remember how much mine cost a decade ago, but they were cheap—I want to say around $15 per strip, maybe. Supply was variable, however, and when I'd see them available, I'd pick up two or three, which is about what I have remaining. It's been years since I've ordered any leathers from anywhere except parchments, vellums, galuchat or bookbinding calf and goat.

Yeah, those are butts. I didn't take a picture of the horween shell, but there were no wrinkles or waves or anything within miles of a horween shell, it is the stuff of $600 shoes and $400 wallets.

My butt strips would never be confused for cordovan (they like like those in the picture). Kanayama is the only other shell that I have used other than vintage (I have a couple of vintage shell strops and the shell is entirely different than horween, thicker, not quite as hard and much more durable because the surface treatment isn't so fine). Everything of any importance in the old days of razoring was genuine shell, and the home user stuff might have been butts or "russian" treatment cowhide.

Kanayama's cordovan was much gentler and thicker and softer than horweens, made by some entirely different process, but without pores just the same.

I see $25 as an aiming point for 8 ounce shells, at least from the couple of times I've bought. It isn't always available for that, but from time to time, someone is selling horse butts on ebay or somewhere else. If we're going to ruin them, there's no reason to pay top dollar.

[David Weaver]

(I would love to have a pair of shoes made out of horween shell, but it's not in the cards unless I lose some sensibility or buy used shoes, and I'm not likely to do the latter unless they show up worn once. The retail arm of the horween company is friendly, but they are clear that you get your shell when allen edmonds and the other such folks aren't taking all of their production).

[David Weaver]

flat as the butts from Siegel of CA (https://www.siegelofca.com/itemdetail.asp?prodid=1152) or other suppliers where I've bought mine.


That's what mine looks like. Those flaws in the leather on the left (you may not see them as such) are toxic for a razor strop. They result in spots where the leather doesn't touch the razor edge, and that's bad. They would be excellent for tools, though.

[David Barnett]

Those flaws in the leather on the left (you may not see them as such) are toxic for a razor strop. They result in spots where the leather doesn't touch the razor edge, and that's bad. They would be excellent for tools, though.

Ah... I see what you mean. Actually, I wouldn't use those sections for razor or tool strops. I require bench strops to be flat and smooth with no discernable flaws, which is why such strips barely yield 3 full-sized strops and several smaller strops—as you might guess, I have a few around my several workshops—with the remaining scrap used for washers, pads, and whatever else comes to mind.

[glenn bradley]

re: leather strops, expense, etc
I get my leather from the scrap bin of my local Tandy leather. I have a lot of leather around the shop for various reasons, and I doubt I paid more than $20 for all of it.

I too have a wad of leather from Tandy purchased years ago. I am always finding uses for it and will re-stock when I finally run out.

[Russell Cook]

Hi all,

Thanks for all the replies.

Could any of the palm stroppers tell me how to do this? I tried this once before, after my Sigma 6000, by laying the bevel on the bottom right corner of my left palm and swiping, and this left a fine cut on my palm (no blood, thankfully).

I have also tried using paper on my bench and stropping with a trailing stroke, just two or three strokes. This was at least useful in that the dried abrasive from the Sigma 6000 was totally wiped off, but I'm too inexperienced to tell what the effect on the edge was.

[Chris Griggs]

You need to either hold your palm open and pull the blade down NOT SIDEWAYS, switching from bevel to back every other stroke (or really every few strokes works too) OR you need to hold the blade and swipe your palm down off the blade, again switching between the back and bevel. NO SIDEWAYS MOTION even a slight lateral motion can cut you.

[Steve Friedman]

David B - Thanks for that explanation of stropping leather. I had a pair of real cordovan shoes many years ago. Guess I should have saved the leather.

I have had the horse butt strop from Tools for Working Wood for years, but rarely used it because it was so big. A couple of weeks ago I mounted it to a piece of hard maple to use for carving tools.

I mounted 6" leather and felt wheels on my slow speed grinder and find that they produce very shiny results, but not sharp. It would be nice to be able to use that for quick honing, but it's not working. Maybe I just need more practice and a lighter touch.

Thanks again,

Steve

[David Weaver]

David B - Thanks for that explanation of stropping leather. I had a pair of real cordovan shoes many years ago. Guess I should have saved the leather.

I have had the horse butt strop from Tools for Working Wood for years, but rarely used it because it was so big. A couple of weeks ago I mounted it to a piece of hard maple to use for carving tools.

I mounted 6" leather and felt wheels on my slow speed grinder and find that they produce very shiny results, but not sharp. It would be nice to be able to use that for quick honing, but it's not working. Maybe I just need more practice and a lighter touch.

Thanks again,

Steve

Once that cordovan is stretched onto a shoe form, it's all over in terms of the possibility of using it as a strop. But, good shell upper shoes are basically a forever product if you can manage to avoid cutting them or getting a perforation. When I went on a tear trying to find US made shoes and landed (much to my chagrin in terms of price) on allen edmonds as basically the only available decent looking choice for the office, I noticed a lot of pairs of hanover shoe, florscheim and allen edmonds shoes that were *very* old but still in good shape on ebay. Some 50 years old or older....shell cordovan. (I didn't get shell cordovan, though, just cowhide).

Hanover was a shoe brand 10 minutes from where I grew up. It's a shame what happened to it. Then they got the bostonian brand and did the same thing to it. There is a gigantic gap between allen edmonds shoes and the brands now that have had all of their corners cut off, and once you get over the sticker shock of $300 shoes, you can get them recrafted completely every couple of years for $125 (I don't know why I'm defending the economics of their model, must be spender's guilt).

Imagine back when shell was used for everything (early 1900s) there were a lot of working horses to get shells from given that a large percentage of the population was agriculture and for every farm there were several work horses as well as recreational horses on some.

Your conclusions about a power buff are correct. They need to be pretty hard or they threaten geometry fast, and they can do the same even if hard. Less is more, or you can end up with a highly polished more blunt (but very strong, and sometimes that's not bad) edge.

[Steve Friedman]

Once that cordovan is stretched onto a shoe form, it's all over in terms of the possibility of using it as a strop. But, good shell upper shoes are basically a forever product if you can manage to avoid cutting them or getting a perforation. When I went on a tear trying to find US made shoes and landed (much to my chagrin in terms of price) on allen edmonds as basically the only available decent looking choice for the office, I noticed a lot of pairs of hanover shoe, florscheim and allen edmonds shoes that were *very* old but still in good shape on ebay. Some 50 years old or older....shell cordovan. (I didn't get shell cordovan, though, just cowhide).

Hanover was a shoe brand 10 minutes from where I grew up. It's a shame what happened to it. Then they got the bostonian brand and did the same thing to it. There is a gigantic gap between allen edmonds shoes and the brands now that have had all of their corners cut off, and once you get over the sticker shock of $300 shoes, you can get them recrafted completely every couple of years for $125 (I don't know why I'm defending the economics of their model, must be spender's guilt).

I know it's off topic, but Allen Edmonds has an outlet store in Freeport, ME, only an hour south of Lie-Nielsen. Still not cheap, but the re-crafting service really works. Just need to keep the uppers intact.

Steve

[David Barnett]

(I would love to have a pair of shoes made out of horween shell, but it's not in the cards unless I lose some sensibility or buy used shoes, and I'm not likely to do the latter unless they show up worn once.

If you're not quite ready to spring for the Allen Edmonds (http://www.allenedmonds.com/aeonline/cati2_Shoes_1_40000000001_-1_1_image_0_N_120552_120552_130213_subcategory), it would follow you're even less inclined to spring for a pair of G. Cleverly (http://www.gjcleverley.co.uk/who-we-are#our-film) shell cordovans (http://www.thesartorialist.com/photos/my-cleverley-cordovan-shoes-in-progress/), but you just might, considering your interest in woodworking hand tools, wish to try your hand at cordwaining (http://www.thehcc.org/forum/index.php?sid=680a8a2851d268b743cd29caa132e989).

The woodworking part, the making of lasts—a truly basic wood craft—is thoroughly doable and engaging, requiring little beyond a hatchet or drawknife, rasps, knives, chisels, scrapers and whatever one might press into service.

While I first learned the geometric method of George Koleff, from his Last Designing & Making Manual (http://www.shoemakingbook.com/george%20koleff.htm), there are other more intuitive and straightforward methods, some more intuitive that involve direct patterning with minimal measuring. At any rate, the work isn't all that demanding and happens gradually enough to get it right from the first try.

Of course one can buy composition lasts, but where's the fun in that? Making your own wooden lasts is somehow very satisfying. Making them for friends and family members is rewarding, too—I've given finished and mounted lasts as gifts to others and they've been displayed like sculpture in homes and offices.

Just a taste—a Japanese last-maker: parts one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEWcXQnFhAY&feature=endscreen), two (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6j6u5ern90), three (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3JrCoPwSe4), and four (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-26gRfvrr1s&feature=c4-overview&list=UUnsAeDrt_fgxdg04i0Q7HXQ). Direct last patterning: part one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Paa0npDHB_M) and two (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6F-LQksW4BQ&feature=endscreen).

Anyway, once you have a pair of lasts made to your own feet, you can proceed to making an uppers pattern (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iC0RoNws64Q) (fairly easy with the masking tape method), click it (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iC0RoNws64Q) (cut it out), skive it (I love to skive, but I started as a bookbinder), all using simple tools you probably have; an Xacto knife, a utility knife and a candle—and with some persistence and further help from YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=shoe-making&oq=shoe-making&gs_l=youtube.3...7887.12292.0.13011.11.11.0.0.0.0. 111.898.10j1.11.0...0.0...1ac.1.11.youtube.U6X8iq5 lqnc)*, you'll end up with a pair of custom fit handmade "bespoke" shoes.

I'm not advising you click those pieces of Horween shell cordovan you waited two years to wrangle, but there are lots of very workable alternatives to fit a beginner's not-for-400-dollars wallet.

Where other crafts began as amateur obsessions then progressed from there, cordwaining has remained an avocation, and while it's been a few years since I've needed shoes to fit my very wide, high instep foot, I still retain my fascination for the craft.

*Parts four (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWslfOqD_wg&feature=endscreen), five (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWslfOqD_wg&feature=endscreen), six (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YM9rmKU0EoA&feature=endscreen), and the rest (http://www.youtube.com/user/wigglesworthh?feature=watch) of Andrew Wrigley's series.

[David Weaver]

I did spring for the AEs, but you're right, anything from bond street is going to be out of my price range. Except maybe shaving soap (even then, there are some superb soaps and creams that are very inexpensive, the bond street label on soaps is for the non-deal seekers like me).

[David Barnett]

I'm a longtime Geo. F. Trumper addict.

[David Weaver]

I'm a longtime Geo. F. Trumper addict.

I'd claim that it's out of my price range, but have to hide a tub of Martin De Candre before saying it. What's been the biggest surprise of all of the soaps and creams that I've tried is Real Shave Company cream that is sold at drugstores. Other than the scent, if I am being honest, it is as good as anything I have tried anywhere, and made by creightons in england. It's almost as if they've experimented with filling low price tubes with top of the line cream to see if anyone would notice. It's 5 bucks here for a tube of it. The scent is the only thing, it has an earthy smell instead of a more typical english scent, but I've gotten used to it.

I rotate 8 creams and soaps, that way I don't ever get used to the smell of one and they all smell great to me, for the most part. Proraso is a bit bland and Tabac smells a little like old-man-from-the-turn-of-the-century.

MdC is great, La Toja (which is a budget cream in spain, but not budget here) is fabulous, the creightons tube of Real Shave Co. is fantastic and cella is a great high volume low cost soap (that does also lack a little with scent). Mitchell's wool fat is also good, but overpriced if bought here (about $12 if bought directly from england and shipped here, vs. about $25 here).

How did we get on this?

[Shaun Mahood]

You know, when you two Davids get talking I really get the sense that I've missed out on a lot of interesting things so far in my life. I love it!

[David Barnett]

The scent is the only thing, it has an earthy smell instead of a more typical english scent, but I've gotten used to it. ...

How did we get on this?

I'll briefly steer it back to woodworking. As you know, I've had a longstanding fondness for wet shaving treen—cream and soap dishes, mugs, brushes, stands and so on, turned and carved—even to the point of having hair-stacked my own badger knots just to have done it.

My own lifelong obsession with scent, from simple gums and resins to essential oils, enfleurage and beyond, led me to design and begin a perfumer's organ and had my client lived, it might've been my masterpiece—at least I entertain that self-indulgent notion. It was based on a favorite pipe organ console, modernized, but retaining vestigial touches of ebony with hand engraved ivory labels—alas!

Thank you for providing me with a few promising leads. Although I don't shave as often as I should—I rarely venture from my house, although that hardly keeps me from wearing colognes even in my cherished solitude—I'm always interested in trying new products and any counterpoint to the pricier English gumbo is welcome.

I've seen the ads and website for Real Shave Company but they appeared too youthful for my quickening codgerdom, but now I'll have to give them a try—earthy interests me, understandably, as does grassy.

"I grow old... I grow old... I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled. Shall I part my hair behind? Do I dare eat a peach?"

[David Weaver]

The RSC is a real puzzler. Putting a good cream in a drug store for cheap. Marking the package like a cheap generic suntan lotion. And putting garbage claims on the container such as "double strength".

What exactly is stuff like that supposed to mean.

But then stuffing the container with a cream that literally lathers into a delightful cushion that also provides a great shave and that does not cling mercilessly to a razor in a greasy slime like art of shaving or some other overpriced corporatized overscented slime...it's just puzzling.

La Toja is another puzzler. It's nearly as good as a cream, but it has this babypowder but slightly more masculine type of scent that leads you to think "i'm not sure about this, maybe it's popular in spain". It does, however, grow on your also.

I'm not sure what to think of Martin De Candre, it is basically a cream that is hard. It lathers fast like a cream, it has sodium hydroxide like a cream, but it is hard. It also has a bizarre scent that is part stinging herb house and part outdoor scent. Some don't like it, I dont mind it. It's different. I would've expected something less masculine from the french, but the makers know just what they're doing. The throngs (those willing to shell out sixty bucks for 150ml of it once it's shipped over here) love the way that it lathers for something with no tallowate in it. Even our crazy friend mr. griggs could use it with no guilt. It has none of the tactlessness of a high glycerine cheap soap, but no converted animal fats either.

But for the stingy, la toja can be had for about 10 bucks or so, and the RSC for 5. The scent will either make you a yes or no type, they are not expensive scents, but they are different, and the "i think someone pulled this scent out of my garden soil" notion you get from the RSC quickly fades, and it's not the part of the scent that lasts several hours after you use it.

The only thing I've really been disappointed with have been art of shaving sandalwood (a fabulous scent but associated with a cream that stuck to a razor like crisco) and the sandalwood cream by proraso, which does not smell like sandalwood should smell, and under it has the hint of the menthol from the regular cream (it's like they made it the same way places make chocolate shakes by adding chocolate to the vanilla shake instead of making a chocolate shake from scratch). Not good!

I'm pretty sure I could get a year from a tub of MDC, a year on from having it and using it once every 8 days has barely made a dent. I also do not wash my brush which puts everyone off, I intentionally do not allow water or lather to reach the knot, only halfway to there, and hang my brush upside down when I'm done. My wife is especially put off by that, but it keeps the brush from ever developing a stink.

Stocked properly, the perfumers organ sounds like a fantastic device.

[David Barnett]

David B - Thanks for that explanation of stropping leather. I had a pair of real cordovan shoes many years ago. Guess I should have saved the leather.

You're most welcome!

I had fun writing it. So much I've enjoyed and I've made over the years has been materials-driven—and most of my work is mixed media, rather expected in goldsmithing. Even my artwork tends toward the mixed—I now mostly work in encaustic and often incorporate other textures and materials in the beeswax-damar medium.

I truly love mixing other materials with wood, as well, such as stone, glass, metals, leather and on and on. For example, I finished another wooden tea chest with twelve compartments, adding sanded (or rather filed) shagreen, aluminum and a top lift of pâte de verre I cast from color-shift rare earth frit. The challenges are not only getting disparate elements fastened together, but keeping things tasteful and balanced and looking like they belong together in spite of the sometimes mandarin salmagundi.

[Shaun Mahood]

To open up a potentially dangerous can of worms for my budget, what would be a reasonable expected cost to get started with straight razor shaving and actually be able to enjoy it?

[David Barnett]

To open up a potentially dangerous can of worms for my budget, what would be a reasonable expected cost to get started with straight razor shaving and actually be able to enjoy it?

Weaver's the one who can answer that. I'm a vintage double-edge wuss all the way. :)

[Chris Griggs]

To open up a potentially dangerous can of worms for my budget, what would be a reasonable expected cost to get started with straight razor shaving and actually be able to enjoy it?

$20-$60 for a rehabbed vintage razor
$15-$80 for a shave brush
$5 to I don't know for a good lathering soap or cream
About $20 for some compounds and some balsa for razor maintenance
I don't how little you can get away with spending on a leather strop. I shave right off of .1 micron iron oxide on Balsa.

Ideally you'd have some type of very fine stone (my favorite for razors is a 2x8 surgical black;but fine waterstones work too). But if you do a good job keeping your razor in shape with compounds and strops you pretty much never need to take it back to the stone.

Dave's been shaving with a straight a lot longer than me. He can give you better numbers, but really you can spend under $75 total and have a perfectly pleasurable straight razor shaving experience...(if you get a decent razor from someone like Dave, who may or may not have a few extras, knows how to prepare them and isn't trying to make a living off of selling/rehabbing vintage razors) and once you've got the basic stuff its FAR cheaper than always having to buy new heads for a Schick Quatro or similar.

[David Weaver]

$30 for a good badger brush (shipped - good cheap badger brushes are made in china, it's where the badger hair is coming from, anyway. Excellent badger brushes are made in england and elsewhere at a much higher cost)
$30 shipped for a basic sharp razor (maybe a little more to canada. There are actually people who do that for a living, they are probably not going to be the best deal, and they're probably going to be the first listings you find. They will want $60 for what I'd pay $25 for)
$40 for a passable strop, one that would improve with use
$10 for chromium oxide and/or iron oxide compound or powder to move your razor from woodworking sharp to shaving sharp
$5 for real shave co cream, or slightly more for some other brand or $10 for a "razorock" brand soap, which is just scented cella (cella is a top of the line old school animal fat based shaving soap with very few ingredients in it)

Another $5 or $7 for a bar of barber's alum isn't a bad idea.

Once you shave with one for a month, you'll never do anything else, with the exception of use a safety or disposable razor maybe on trips away from home. A single properly cared-for razor will probably be good for 50 years of shaving if you never drop it or clang it against a sink.

Not exactly bargain basement to do it, but that will get you a razor as sharp as can get one basically, and get a comfortable shave. You *can* do it cheaper. You can make your own strop, you can use a $10 brush, etc. The strop can be something as simple as clean smooth leather glued to a flat board 2 or 3 inches wide. That may only cost $5.

One other side comment about it, the other benefit is there is never a "is it dull, should I shave with it one more time, i'm not sure" thought with a straight razor. You control the sharpness. If you don't like something about the way the edge feels, you do it differently, but then once you find what you like, the razor is like that every single day every single time and you find your routine and all of those nasty things that occur with dummy razors (razorburn, ingrown hairs, etc,..) never again.

I do have a gilette fatboy and a gilette super speed (those are double edge razors) and that's a perfectly fine way to go if you decide you don't like straight razors or you nick yourself and get spooked (i have not nicked myself for months and months, and never had a serious cut from SR shaving). Good quality stainless steel DE blades (astra would be my choice for inexpensive but still relatively keen and smooth) are available for about 12 cents each, and that's probably good for an average of a week's worth of shaves.

[David Barnett]

The only thing I've really been disappointed with have been art of shaving sandalwood (a fabulous scent but associated with a cream that stuck to a razor like crisco) and the sandalwood cream by proraso, which does not smell like sandalwood should smell, and under it has the hint of the menthol from the regular cream (it's like they made it the same way places make chocolate shakes by adding chocolate to the vanilla shake instead of making a chocolate shake from scratch). Not good!

It's really hard to find a decent sandalwood anything anymore. I have several different essential oils, including some old ones, and today's sandalwood rarely cuts it. I'm not a big fan of AoS but I don't mind Proraso, although it's weak and somewhat thin for my taste.

So glad you expanded on these, though. Need something to look forward to. I'm on a roll. High time I ordered a few things and I simply have to try Martin De Candre.


I would've expected something less masculine from the french, but the makers know just what they're doing.

Imagine roughly slinging one's cherie in a harshly indifferent musette danse apache and say that.

[David Barnett]

I still like the little Edwin Jagger Crabtree-Evelyn Best Badger Ivory (http://www.crabtree-evelyn.com/130291/130291,default,pd.html?cgid=#q=brush&start=7), but it's gone up to $65 while the pure badger has filled the lower price point. Still, I use it more often than I'd have imagined and it's pretty much my everyday brush.

Just ordered a hundred Astra from West Coast Shaving, thanks again. Still have Merkurs and a few others I've been working on but the Feathers will sit in that drawer a long time—as a friend says, "too damned sharp!"

I like my FatBoy, too.

[Shaun Mahood]

Wait, are you telling me that I can dispense with ingrown hairs AND razor burn? Sounds tempting.
Maybe I should look into a good double edge razor to start. How big of an improvement would that be over a normal electric or multi-blade razor?

You know, I was also researching scythes the other day even though I've got a perfectly good gas mower. I think this forum is way too contagious.

[David Weaver]

Good luck with the MDC site. Sometimes it responds, sometimes it doesn't. In reality, their soap is a $35 soap with $25 of express shipping. That's just how they do it there. It's packed as if they actually care about what they are doing.

When you use it, you think "did I just pay $60 for what I think is a hard cream", and you go back and forth between "i think that's a lot" , and "ghee...there's just nothing I can find wrong with it, though, I think as a cynic, that means it's very good, or I would find something to be disappointed about".

They also have hard bath soaps that really do have masculine stinging scents that are at the same time not unpleasant, they are like the filterless cigarettes of soaps....no BS. The scents are real things that grow on the earth that you can identify and not something contrived by some guy wearing vinyl shoes who dreams of getting off of work to watch reality TV and eat "real italian" at the Olive Garden on his birthday. They are also expensive at about $12 per large bar, but a treat made by people who practice what they do as if they intend to do it exactly right every time.

Be sure to order in english to avoid the VAT, whatever you do.

And, agreed on proraso. It is sort of the walmart of shaving soaps. You can survive on it. You can often find it cheaply, but there is nothing particularly good about it even though it's passable. It has a little bit of that greasy feeling that AOS has a lot of, and RSC has none of that (the version with a brown band on the tube that just says "moisturizing"). MDC, RSC, Cella and Tabac all have that quality where they go on, provide a completely cushioned but close shave, but rinse right off. Tabacs downfall is that it lathers much less well than the first three if you face lather (consequently, if you lather in a mug it takes longer in a mug though it can be worked up in a mug to a level that it will not go to on the face).

[David Weaver]

Wait, are you telling me that I can dispense with ingrown hairs AND razor burn? Sounds tempting.
Maybe I should look into a good double edge razor to start. How big of an improvement would that be over a normal electric or multi-blade razor?

You know, I was also researching scythes the other day even though I've got a perfectly good gas mower. I think this forum is way too contagious.

I have skin more sensitive than anyone I know who doesn't have an outright dermatological problem. If I shave it wrong, it burns, and it actually gets worse two days after the shave.

That said, I have never had an ingrown hair, not a single one, when shaving with a straight razor. When I shave with a DE razor for a period of time (like several days at the inlaws), I will get some ingrown hairs. I get a closer shave with a straight, but not the three-layers-lower-than-the-skin type against-the-grain shave or I'm right back dealing with razor burn. I can't get that with any razor of any type.

Straight razor shaving is the way to get the exactly the same every day kind of shave where you get the same superb shave without having to go against the grain or do things that will light you up like a christmas tree if you have sensitive skin.

[Chris Griggs]

This stuff makes an awesome inexpensive lathering shave cream. Works wonderfully even with my crappy cheap $10 synthetic brush.

http://www.kissmyface.com/body/grid/natural-moisture-shaves

Yes its marketed towards ladies. My wife introduced me too it. It blows the pants off any canned cream I ever used. Works pretty well just as a cream, works something special as a lathering cream.

[Steve Bates]

I've been using a straight razor for a couple of years. I only shave once a week because I've a full beard. I don't like the whiskers on my neck or just under my lower lip. Because of this thread this week, my stropping skills have vastly improved. I've shaved twice this week and I expect to again. Just for fun!

My costs have been so far, three vintage razors, free. Ask around, folks have them collecting dust in drawers. Shaving mug, cheap coffee cup, free.
Brush, Walmart, $5; soap, Williams, $1; Steptic pencils, 2 for $1. Used these a lot at first because I had to learn how to hold the razor and it wasn't very sharp and not smooth.

It's been educational so far. Mr. Griggs turned me onto graded rust a couple of weeks back. That's been a major smoothing improvement. When I ordered that I also added a couple of trial soaps. Maggardrazors.com also sent a sample soap with after shave lotion and a sample preshave oil. Including shipping, that was $12.

Just ordered a strop from Tools for Working Wood. Don't know if it'll do for a razor, but I can abrade (sand) or scrape it. Thanks, Mr. Barnett.

As you can tell, I'm really cheap! Reading Misters Griggs, Barnett and Weaver is wonderful! But I fear it could be expensive as well.

My two pennies

[David Weaver]

I asked two years ago when I went to shaving only with a straight razor, if anyone on wood central used a straight razor, and sure enough, warren mickley does, and has for forty years (hopefully I'm recalling that correctly). Anyway, warren said he's been stropping with one of those TFWW strops. If you get it and find it's a bit abrasive, just keep working with it. Leave it loose for now, because once it's glued to something it's practically like wood and that's not quite how you'll want a razor strop to be.

I've gotten my wife to use cella soap (because she wanted something that wasn't chemically enhanced), and she's using a best badger brush from china. It's a very nice brush with a big knot and soft hair, about $25. I've got a fine badger and a a silvertip knot that I put in a cocobolo handle. They do lather soap better than an inexpensive brush, and hold moisture better. Compared to the fine western world brushes, both were inexpensive, though,the former about $20, and I think the big silvertip knot was about $27 on ebay (directly from china).

Of all of the things I mentioned, I could get away with one razor, one vintage linen, one brush, $10 worth of horse butt strip (which is what my strop is, just self cut horse butt strip) and any one of the soaps. I have williams, too, it's just hard to get a good quick cushy face lather with whatever the new williams is (apparently, the old williams was a lot like the new premium tallow soaps, but williams lost focus).

All of the other soaps are complete extravagance, just things you'd buy with money you can blow. I have seen soaps for as much as $160 and never had the slightest desire to buy those, and even MDC is really a $35 soap, we just can't get it here for that because they send it express postage.

[Russell Cook]

Hi all,

The other day I spent the best part of 3 hours regrinding a 3/4 inch chisel from about 30 degrees to around 15 degrees.

Today I honed it up to my Sigma 6000, then did about 50 strips on my palm, alternating sides.

It was my first time to use a blade at such an acute angle, so it's hard to say how much influence the stropping had, but the edge felt smoother to the touch afterwards and was able to cut end-grain pine rather than crush it.

Cheers for all the help, I'm definitely gonna add palm stropping to my sharpening routine

[Chris Griggs]

Glad it worked for you Russel. Just an FYI...you probably don't need to it 50 times. 10 or so should be sufficient...maybe less. I usually do a few on the bevel, than a few on the back, and than just flip it back and forth for a couple swipes. Of course, as you continue to do it you will find what is optimal for you.

[Chris Griggs]

It's been educational so far. Mr. Griggs turned me onto graded rust a couple of weeks back. That's been a major smoothing improvement.

I couldn't remember who I made that recommendation too and was wondering how that ended up. Glad it worked out for you as well as it has for me!

[Tony Wilkins]

I've started using Cella too; good stuff. Still like my Tabac on occasion too though. Not a straight razor guy yet, using a DE. Thought about it but haven't taken the plunge.

[Winton Applegate]

Aaaahhh . . . yah
stick with just a few strokes on the palm.
Fifty could easily be enough to attract lightening bolts.
You were lucky (this time).

[Winton Applegate]

David W. and David B.,

And I thought I was a sharpening nerd.
You two take the cake.
Fun to read about.
For woodworking I am already way over sharpened (15,000 stone ) being able to shave curls off a single hair on my arm.
. . . but . . .
. . . you know . . .
. . .hmmmmm . . .
I could go for curls shaved off of a single curl . . .
THANKS
I now have a "good" reason to buy that new microscope I been eying.
Sweet !

PS: when you guys start talking soaps and creams it makes me think I tuned into an episode of Frasier and a discussion between the brothers. You know . . .
cucumber facial goops and phrases like " . . . w i t h__ j u s t__ a__ h i n t __ of vanilla"

Any other forum you could get beat up for talking like that.

I like Frasier by the way. I have the complete ten season, plus, set.

PPS: I am working on my own "signature" sharpening "system". It is centered around a quantum particle "focuser". One puts the set up in the window and by the end of the day (or week; depending on your launch window ) your "sadly inferior", merely butt stropped, edge is "properly" prepared by the focused bombardment of particles coming off the sun. The focuser only allows particles to pass in the early after noon and only on Thursdays.

I assure you, dear reader, it is worth every penny and will be available soon at all "reputable" tool emporiums world wide.
Long term financing available.

PPPS: Now you are talking about wrinkly butts. And they want to throw ME out of the forum for being inappropriate.
YOU GUYS !

[David Barnett]

David W. and David B.,

And I thought I was a sharpening nerd.
You two take the cake.

YOU GUYS !

Winton—thank YOU! I enjoyed your middle of the night post. And you're right—I've taken more than my share of cakes, and it shows. I'll further admit my a posteriori quest for horse butt stropping knowledge is, in hindsight, nearing its end, soon to bottom out.


I now have a "good" reason to buy that new microscope I been eyeing. Sweet!

You may laugh, but I occasionally roll out my vintage, huge built-like-a-mid-century-Buick B&L zoom-boom stereomicroscope from the micro-machining room to my woodshop for those late-night OCD hone-fests.


http://home.comcast.net/~d.j.barnett/B&L-SK.jpg
The newer 'scopes stay at the jeweler's bench and faceting mac... or should I say... facetating machine. Great for sharpening, too.


http://home.comcast.net/~d.j.barnett/MyFaceter.jpg


PS: when you guys start talking soaps and creams it makes me think I tuned into an episode of Frasier and a discussion between the brothers. You know . . . cucumber facial goops and phrases like " . . . w i t h__ j u s t__ a__ h i n t __ of vanilla"

If only you knew.

“This is provocative in the best possible ways as the civet does indeed hit you strong, but it's well situated against the leather, cardamom, and the oud. Given those notes alone, you know this is going to be a stinky scent—and definitely not one for the faint of heart. Personally, I find that the civet attenuates quickly, and what remains is a rich, almost dusty animalic dirtiness..."

Basenotes (http://www.basenotes.net/) — for the truly scent obsessed

In no time you'll be slinging terms like chypre /ʃiːpr(ə)/ (http://oxforddictionaries.com/us/words/key-to-pronunciation-us), enfleurage /ˌäNfləˈräZH/ (http://oxforddictionaries.com/us/words/key-to-pronunciation-us) and sillage /sēˈäZH/ (http://oxforddictionaries.com/us/words/key-to-pronunciation-us) around the gang and trying out new self-defense techniques.

And two incredible reads: the first, a biography of biophysicist Luca Turin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luca_Turin)—the second, by the great man himself.

The Emperor of Scent: A True Story of Perfume and Obsession (http://www.amazon.com/The-Emperor-Scent-Perfume-Obsession/dp/0375759816), Chandler Burr.

The Secret of Scent: Adventures in Perfume and the Science of Smell (http://www.amazon.com/The-Secret-Scent-Adventures-Perfume/dp/0061133841), Luca Turin


I am working on my own "signature" sharpening "system". ... I assure you, dear reader, it is worth every penny and will be available soon at all "reputable" tool emporiums world wide. Long term financing available.

Shell out the wampum for early production or hold out for the AsSeenOnTV™ knock-off? Hmmm.

As for body hair edge testing, it does have its limits. Any extant hirsute regions are those I can't reach, which on my generous topography are considerable, further which the neighborhood cats now resemble Mr. Bigglesworth.


http://cdn.pastemagazine.com/www/blogs/lists/Mr%20Bigglesworth.jpg

[Derek Cohen]

Here in Oz we have to hone our razors at high cutting angles as it is well known that Australians have interlocked beards. Most hone at 60 degrees to avoid razor burn (aka tear out).

Incidentally, I have used the same shaving mug for 40 years, an Old Spice. The soap has been replaced (with various) a few times :)

http://images.bidorbuy.co.za/user_images/561/1257561_090814194441_DSC00013.JPG

Regards from Perth

Derek

[David Weaver]

PS: when you guys start talking soaps and creams it makes me think I tuned into an episode of Frasier and a discussion between the brothers. You know . . .
cucumber facial goops and phrases like " . . . w i t h__ j u s t__ a__ h i n t __ of vanilla"


You should see the soap discussions when the soapies are among friends. Attempted straightforward talk about why $160 worth of $4 really is a good deal or other such things. Or "essential" things to have in your "soap rotation". or "brush rotation" or other such not very essential things.

[Steve Friedman]

Here in Oz we have to hone our razors at high cutting angles as it is well known that Australians have interlocked beards. Most hone at 60 degrees to avoid razor burn (aka tear out).
Derek,

That must be because the sink drains counterclockwise. Thanks for the laugh. Just managed to avoid spewing coffee all over the computer screen.

Steve

[David Barnett]

Incidentally, I have used the same shaving mug for 40 years, an Old Spice

...Elias Hasket Derby's privateer frigate on 'er second sailin' out o' Salem, Mass., she was, 170 years t' the day afore my own launchin', 'twas—fell in w' the right dandy 130-ton Brig Providence that self same day, deliverin' 'er en prise, 'ostilities as there were, the day followin' t' be libeled 'n' sold stripp'd o' 'er guns, she was, aye.


http://www.awiatsea.com/images/Grand%20Turk/Grand%20Turk.jpg

There remains an active trade in that mug, Derek, much admired as it is.

As for your down under mates' interlocked beards—I've 'eard rumors t' be sure, & times have changed... still... :)

[bridger berdel]

scanning electron microscope pictures of stropped steel show that bare leather does abrade steel. very lightly, but it does. this was with straight razor steel, which is a little hsrder than a typical woodworking tool.

[Charlie Stanford]

...Elias Hasket Derby's privateer frigate on 'er second sailin' out o' Salem, Mass., she was, 170 years t' the day afore my own launchin', 'twas—fell in w' the right dandy 130-ton Brig Providence that self same day, deliverin' 'er en prise, 'ostilities as there were, the day followin' t' be libeled 'n' sold stripp'd o' 'er guns, she was, aye.


http://www.awiatsea.com/images/Grand%20Turk/Grand%20Turk.jpg

There remains an active trade in that mug, Derek, much admired as it is.

As for your down under mates' interlocked beards—I've 'eard rumors t' be sure, & times have changed... still... :)


Not sure how old this one is. It was my wife's grandfather's. My dad's was lost after his death - he had a Ship Grand Turk one like Derek's.

266797

[David Barnett]

Not sure how old this one is. It was my wife's grandfather's. My dad's was lost after his death - he had a Ship Grand Turk one like Derek's.

Here's a couple links for identifying and dating Old Spice mugs—one for the earlier pottery (http://www.oldspicecollectibles.com/Mugs/Hull%20Pottery.html), the other for glass (http://www.oldspicecollectibles.com/Mugs/American%20Glass.html).

Old Spice and Yardley lavender were two family standbys and I associate both scents with childhood. I have my father's shaving mug and my great-grandfather's monogrammed barber shop mug. My uncle has my grandfather's mug and my great-grandfather's shaving bowl he kept at home. I use a very old Japanese rice bowl and a low, thick pâte de verre lidded bowl I cast about ten years ago.

As for wooden shaving treen, I've made several stands and quite a few brushes over the years. My favorite is a triangular wenge handle with a best badger knot.

[Winton Applegate]

strop with some Simichrome
George,
Serious question. I promise to not get silly.
With the simichrome are you using it mostly on high carbon blades as opposed to the A2 LNs and Varitas plane blades ?
When I experimented with all the stopping abrasives I got nut'in out of simichrome. It just did not work on A2 where the yellow cake, the green cake and the diamond paste really went to town as far as making shiny, sharp and . . . well you know my thoughts on edge rounding.

[Winton Applegate]

what remains is a rich, almost dusty animalic dirtiness

. . . there goes the ball game
just when I thought we might fly this thread under the radar of the moderator and remain unejected from this forum for a few more episodes . . . you go with that line.

solipsistic in here
solipsistic with out a doubt,
with more than just a hint of lipflapalot

[Winton Applegate]

zoom-boom
SWMBO says she may allow me to get one of those; she wants to know more about it. She wants to know about the quality of the espresso and how many shots it can do at a time.
She said we can get one if it does decent shots.
(just play along)


I know when I have just tasted a decent shot of espresso because my eye balls clack together like two billiard balls and I see a spark.

PS: One of these days I predict you may wake up late at night, go to your micro machining room and imagine that you see me there in the room attempting to steal the zoom-boom micro scope. These visions of the future come to me occasionally; I'm a bit psychic.
Don't concern yourself, it is only a dream, go back to bed and fall fast asleep.
it is only a dream
it is only a dream
it is only a dream

[David Barnett]

. . . there goes the ball game
just when I thought we might fly this thread under the radar of the moderator and remain unejected from this forum for a few more episodes . . . you go with that line.

Oops... I did it again (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDoCfWKMnus). Truly wouldn't want to transgress.

[David Barnett]

SWMBO says she may allow me to get one of those; she wants to know more about it. She wants to know about the quality of the espresso and how many shots it can do at a time.

She said we can get one if it does decent shots. (just play along)

Tell her it's not just the machine—it starts with high quality freshly roasted coffee—I roast my strictly hard bean (SHB) Tarazzu (http://www.sweetmarias.com/coffee/central-america/costa-rica?source=side) in a doggy bowl with a heat gun (http://www.homeroaster.com/heatgun.html). See? Right there you'll save enough to get at least an optically reasonable Chinese knock-off (http://www.microscope.com/stereo-microscopes/omano-om99-v7-articulated-boom-stereoscope.html) of my Olympus SZ60 espresso machine on an articulated boom.


One of these days I predict you may wake up late at night, go to your micro machining room and imagine that you see me there in the room attempting to steal the zoom-boom micro scope.

That would be the Cold War B&L SK, which would serve you well.

GRATUITOUS GLOAT ALERT: I got my SZ4 head off eBay with the SK boom stand that cost our government a hefty four figures in the early 1960s—weighs a ton, extends to a 4½ foot radius which covers a lot of taped-together U2 recon photos, and when updated with modern synthetic damping greases (http://www.lubekits.com/?load=grease)*, moves as smoothly as the yoke on a Gulfstream II. Set me back $150 + 60 crating and shipping. Add a cold halogen illuminator with dual gooseneck fiber-optic spots or an LED ring-light and now you're cookin' with gas.

But... but... but...



it is only a dream
it is only a dream
it is only a dream

"... and here's your large coffee, sir... and please pull to the side and we'll bring that Egg McMuffin right out to you."

*Terrific for hand plane adjusters—box and cabinet hinges, too.

[Winton Applegate]

SWMBO just watched that Youtube with me.
I think the micro is on hold for now.
She does not think I am sent from above.


I did notice the orchestra musicians who were properly shaved using properly prepared straight razor and soaps and brushes on a proper schedule of rotation. The others looked like mere barbarians in comparison.


I wasn't able to determine if the violin player had the superior razor shave but I would like to investigate further.


I enjoyed seeing your microscope and faceting machine. Thank you for taking the time. I had a good time watching the Youtube.


SWMBO , primed for lift off by the wrinkly strop comments, walked away to do something more exciting, she said, like wash her hair muttering something about "no matter how old they get they don't get past their 13 year old sense of humor".
What do you suppose she means by that ?

[David Barnett]

SWMBO , primed for lift off by the wrinkly strop comments, walked away to do something more exciting, she said, like wash her hair muttering something about "no matter how old they get they don't get past their 13 year old sense of humor".

What do you suppose she means by that ?

My father, a pastor, was bedside with a very old parishioner whose family had gathered around for his final moments. The dying man dropped his hand to his youngest grandson and whispered "pull Paw-Paw's finger." His grandson complied and Paw-Paw performed the indicated response then passed on with a final breathy chuckle.

Maybe she meant that.

[David Barnett]

SWMBO just watched that Youtube with me.
I think the micro is on hold for now.
She does not think I am sent from above.

One must admit it's not often one hears an opera-trained German baritone perform a Britney Spears cover in the same style as Die Moritat von Mackie Messer.

[Winton Applegate]

Paw-Paw passed on with a final breathy chuckle
I'm laughing and crying at the same time.
There's a hint of Robert A. Heinlein there somewhere
videlicet :
Lazarus Long (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lazarus_Long)
Time Enough for Love (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_Enough_for_Love)


not often
No but I am glad it still can !
How did you come across this treasure ?
You remind me of my mentor. I called him the cultural Mecca of the town I grew up in. He always had his finger on the pulse of ART and Technology. And was miles down the road of anyone else I came into contact with in that town.

[bridger berdel]

I have been getting up to speed with soapmaking. for a couple of bucks I can make a *very* good facsimile of a $60 shave soap. it's taken me about a hundred bucks to get up to speed though. I now have supplies for several thousand dollars worth at boutique prices.

[David Weaver]

Which shave soap is it that you'd call it similar to?

I have enough material to make five pounds of shave soap, but it'll be years before I get a chance to use any of it. Unfortunately, I have sandalwood essential oil, but I'm getting tired of sandalwood smell.

[Stuart Tierney]

Then get to making it and stick a cedar or cypress shaving in the soap as a marketing gimmick. :)

Stu.

[David Weaver]

I've heard that the first batch never turns out like you expect it to and you often get a billowy lather that dries out fast. It might end up being some bentonite based bath soap.

[Tom Vanzant]

Several years ago while in Trinidad overseeing the re-fitting of a drilling vessel, I had to make do with a locally-produced body wash gel for shaving. I haven't a clue what was in it, but it was pretty good. No nicks or scrapes, and in the tropics, you know when that happens!

[bridger berdel]

martin de candre

[David Weaver]

Several years ago while in Trinidad overseeing the re-fitting of a drilling vessel, I had to make do with a locally-produced body wash gel for shaving. I haven't a clue what was in it, but it was pretty good. No nicks or scrapes, and in the tropics, you know when that happens!

Probably a lot of glycerine, but there's usually a lot of glycerine in shave soaps.

[Federico Mena Quintero]

To open up a potentially dangerous can of worms for my budget, what would be a reasonable expected cost to get started with straight razor shaving and actually be able to enjoy it?

I found this quite useful: http://www.shavemyface.com/downloads/The-Straight-Razor-Shave.pdf

And these too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDR_1hg-xNs (how the guy doesn't slice himself while talking so much is still a mystery to me...)

The way I got started is by getting a USD 80 razor from Amazon (a Dovo double hollow-ground). It said "shave ready" but being a proud neander I first took it to my 8000 water stone, and a little paddle strop I made (some random leather, smooth side up, glued with yellow glue to a flat piece of wood). Shaves very well, and I have been using it for about a year. I strop and shave every time, and I can get about 10 shaves that way before needing to go back to the 8000 stone.

You can probably find a used/rehabbed razor cheaper than mine.

I started without a brush, special soap, or a mug. They are nice to have (and I eventually got them), but I *think* the main thing behind having a brush is that you can lather your face in the middle of a shave without actually getting soap on your hands - you don't want slippery hands while holding a razor. Before I had a brush, it was a bit awkward to lay down the razor, lather again, rinse my hands... but it's no biggie.

I started with normal soap and about a spoonful of glycerin (ultra-cheap from the pharmacy); it works quite well even if it doesn't have the magical musky smell of double-distilled unicorn armpits.

[Mel Fulks]

Federico,I have found those sites useful ,too. Razor stropping has been difficult for me .Making some progress ,but I can tell I'm never going to get any speed and be able to make that loud peculiar racket that I remember from childhood visits to barbershop. As for the shave creams,I bought one David reccommended and found in pharmacies . It took the skin off my palm in a full strength smell test,so I haven't dared put it on my face. Shaving with a layer of olive oil topped with a layer of canned Barbasol.

[David Weaver]

Shave soap effect seems to be such a random thing. The real shave company stuff sold for 5 bucks at rite aid is one of my favorites, but all of the soaps I like are pretty gentle.

MDC is the most random smelling of the bunch, but it is artisan stuff and it's probably more like a cream that's happens to be as hard as a soap.

The best soaps stay wet a long time, aren't that sensitive to how wet the brush is, cushion the shave well and rinse off of the razor immediately when they go under the faucet. MDC and the $5 stuff at rite aid meet all of those, but proraso doesn't. Most cheap soaps don't.

[Mel Fulks]

Oh,I'm sure it's a good product, David. My skin has issues ,I actually got a 4-F draft classification because of it. Can't say the olive oil rinses well.

[David Weaver]

Yeah, I definitely don't doubt your experience, Mel. I have different skin issues of my own. That's why I was surprised on the razor board that a lot of soaps that I thought were mild would generally get at least half a dozen responses from people who had adverse issues.

I don't have trouble with soaps, but if I so much as get razorburn, it turns into dark red spots the next day and last three days total. If I get a small nick, it looks like nothing when it happens and then it turns into a big red long dark line with a bunch of inflammation around it.

I envy the folks who can just willy nilly rip a razor right back up into the grain of their hair. I could never do it.

[Chris Griggs]

Mel. Give the Kiss My Face moisture shave a try. My wife uses it and she has very very sensitive skin. I tried it once and it lathers great so now its all I use. I can't really compare it to fancy shave soaps cause I've never had any, but the KMF stuff is better than any other pharmacy/department store shave cream/soap/lotion I've ever used.

Dave for some reason I was thinking you disliked the Real Shave Co. stuff...what is the one sold at pharmacies and such, marketed as a trendy mens shave soap, that you don't like?

EDIT: haha I just looked back at this thread and see that I already made this soap recommendation in it.

[Mel Fulks]

Thanks, Chris. Will definately try it.

[David Weaver]

Mel. Give the Kiss My Face moisture shave a try. My wife uses it and she has very very sensitive skin. I tried it once and it lathers great so now its all I use. I can't really compare it to fancy shave soaps cause I've never had any, but the KMF stuff is better than any other pharmacy/department store shave cream/soap/lotion I've ever used.

Dave for some reason I was thinking you disliked the Real Shave Co. stuff...what is the one sold at pharmacies and such, marketed as a trendy mens shave soap, that you don't like?

EDIT: haha I just looked back at this thread and see that I already made this soap recommendation in it.

Every man jack. That one is made in the united states and I don't see anything redeeming about it. The tube looks very similar to the real shave company stuff (which plainly says on the back that it's made by creightons in the UK, and creighton makes stuff that's a lot more money).

Another one I like a lot is La Toja, which is an inexpensive cream in the EU. Unfortunately, it's not so inexpensive here. It has a bizarre smell, though, sort of a slightly more manly baby powder smell.

[Chris Griggs]

Every man jack. That one is made in the united states and I don't see anything redeeming about it. The tube looks very similar to the real shave company stuff (which plainly says on the back that it's made by creightons in the UK, and creighton makes stuff that's a lot more money).

Another one I like a lot is La Toja, which is an inexpensive cream in the EU. Unfortunately, it's not so inexpensive here. It has a bizarre smell, though, sort of a slightly more manly baby powder smell.


Yep. That's the one i was thinking off. I was bummed when you told me that because I've used some of their other products and liked them...never bothered to try their shave cream shave. As much as I like the KMF stuff I should check out some others just for giggles.

[Michael Ray Smith]

Interesting to see the variety of answers, which tells you that lots of things work. I use a piece of scrap leather glued rough side up to a piece of scrap wood with chromium oxide rubbed on it. When I was a kid I used my belt -- if I actually had one on at the time -- or my jeans, which I don't think really did very much. My standard of reference has always been the barber shops back in the day when you could still get a shave from them. The barbers all had leather strops hanging from their chairs, and they'd strop their razors before starting every shave, sometimes in the middle of the shave. The strops had slick surfaces. They weren't mounted on anything but they were fairly thick and stiff so they didn't flex a lot, with nothing on them that I'm aware of. They had a hook on one end that attached to the chair, and the barber would pick up the loose end, pull it tight, and then strop away.

[Federico Mena Quintero]

Shaving with a layer of olive oil topped with a layer of canned Barbasol.

That wouldn't work for me. After the olive oil, I'd just go downstairs to rub garlic, salt, and pepper all over my face and then I'd lick my upper lip all day.

[Mel Fulks]

You are right Federico , licking ones lips is pretty reflexive so I have to fight that impulse while shaving around my mouth.

[Brian Holcombe]

I know I'm right at home in the Neander den when I re-read a thread like this one.