New Table Saw for my new shop

[David Thomas1]

Hi guys, been lurking around for a little but have been gaining tons of insight. I can almost always find the answer to my less important question on here by just spending a little (actually very very very long) time searching.

Now, to my important problem, which I'll try to keep as short as possible. I'm building a new shop (at 25x60 now but it looks like it's going to have to be smaller) and I need a new table saw. Had myself completely sold on the Hammer K3 Winner when I was thinking it'd be around 4ish. Now after reading on boards and being told to get the biggest slider I can get, I now want the biggest slider they have but don't want to pay 8k+ for it (at least not right now). So in a dramatic jump I'm now looking at Cabinet saws, no sliders, under 2k, that'll be good enough until I decide to go balls out on either a slider or one of the cabinets that cost 3.5k plus.

I've been looking at Grizzlys and have read great things about them, minus the here and there shipping mishaps that are bound to happen, and am wondering if there was any other companies/saws I should be looking at? I heard not the greatest things about Jets and I feel SteelCity is equaly priced but not the same quality as Grizzly. I could be wrong, just what I've heard.

I've also found a Powermatic 66 for auction close to me that I think is going to go for around a 1k. If that's the case, should I just stop typing and go grab it? I saw a thread where another person had this exact same issue as me but the thread just died out so I don't know if he got the PM or the Grizzly.

Any help, tips, advice (feel like i just said the same thing three times in a row), would be greatly appreciated.

[Joe Kieve]

You might want to read the thread posted on SMC labeled Info on Steel City tools, particularly 35990 table saw (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?205443-Info-on-Steel-City-tools-particularly-35990-table-saw) before deciding on a Steel City. I'm a Powermatic fan, so the PM 66 would be my choice.

Just my 2 cents.

[David Thomas1]

Thanks Joe, reading it now. Gonna do a little more digging for info on Steel City but also going to call the auction house today about the Powermatic. Being an actual pm66 owner, are there any things in particular to a pm66 that I should be on the look out for? Things that'll make me want to stay away?

[scott spencer]

It's usually pretty tough to beat Grizzly for bang for the buck if you're willing to be your own middleman....unless a great used deal pops up. You do hear about occasional shipping damage with Grizzly, but the large number of machines they sell should be considered into that equation... more machines sold, means more damage, more posts about damage, etc., plus the fact that dealers filter out those same shipping issues for you with other brands.

The PM66 is a great saw, but it won't have the modern safety feature of a riving knife. Jet is often similar quality to Grizzly, but you pay a premium for the dealer support and longer warranty. Shop Fox is another option....associated company with Grizzly. General International is worth a look too, but aside from dealer support/warranty, I don't believe they have a quality advantage over Grizzly either.

[Joe Kieve]

David,
I'm not an actual owner of a PM 66 but I did try to wear one out for 37 years where I used to work. Never could! Only thing we ever did was change belts. As Scott mentiond, a 66 won't have modern safety features such as a riving knife but does have left tilt which I liked.
Have you considered a Saw Stop? May be a little more than you want to pay but I've read and heard that they're great saws with great safety features; riving knife, left tilt available, "almost" impossible to get cut on. There are a number of folks on SMC who own one. You might see what they think.

BTW...after I retired, the company sold the PM66 and replaced it with a Saw Stop. (Oh, and I don't own a Saw Stop either, I have a Unisaw....only because I couldn't find a 66 when I got ready to buy.)

joe

[Doug Ladendorf]

It's an interesting choice that I think, in part, needs to be weighted by who you are. If you don't want to work on your machines any more than you need to and just get busy woodworking then the Grizzly may get you up and running faster, at least in the short term. If you don't mind getting your hands dirty cleaning and/or restoring an older quality machine that will outlast you by far then the PM 66 might be appealing. If you were looking at the Hammer then you clearly appreciate quality. Be sure to post what you choose.

Doug, who is in the middle of a 1968 PM 66 restoration.

[Prashun Patel]

Here's a different take:

If you are ultimately planning on a different saw, then perhaps you might just get a big, bad bandsaw. It will do much of what a tablesaw can do, and when you ultimately get your slider, it will make a great compliment and will save you having to sell something.

If you choose still to go the temporary tablesaw route, then I'd just buy a used Grizzly from Craigslist. They come up often, and if you sell within a few years, your resale will be close to what you pay for it.

[Paul McGaha]

If I were buying a new table saw I think I would try to find a very good to excellent condition PM-66. They seem to be highly regarded by their owners and users. I have a Unisaw that I bought new about (10) years ago. It's been great but Delta seems to be having some issues these days. I don't know that I'll buy another Delta tool. Just my $.02. Good luck with it.

[David Kumm]

Used sliders go pretty cheap as do used traditional saws. Less than 1K traditional buys anything from a Unisaw to a Whitney 177. 3K will get you a used slider. Dave

[Erik Christensen]

I have been happy with my grizzly purchases > half my shop is green. It is a hobby so I don't run them 40 hours a week and if I do manage to wear one out (not likely at 61) it is a great excuse to buy something better. I would check out tracksaws as part of your research - I have a Festool 75 that is not only great for breaking down sheet goods single handed but does stuff that really can't be done with any other tool.

[Chris Padilla]

The best bang for the buck is a Grizzly...even better if you can find it used. It'll allow you to save your pennies for the salivating slider you desire. I keep hoping my 2000 G1023Z will die on me so I can get a SawStop but even 13 years later, it is still doing fine.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi David, I have a Hammer B3 Winner with a 49 inch sliding table, outrigger and scoring saw.

Bigger is not necessarily better with sliders, mine will crosscut a sheet of plywood, yet has the compact ergonomics of a cabinet saw. Larger sliders are not that comfortable to use for solid wood components as the slider/base is often in the way.

That was very true for the small Grizzly slider a friend of mine purchased, it was far less ergonomic than the Hammer.

That said, you couldn't convince me to go back to a cabinet saw, the small slider has greater capacity and capability than a cabinet saw, in the same or smaller footprint.

Have another look at the Hammer, in light of what you need compared to the "bigger is always better' mantra.......Regards, Rod.

[Aleks Hunter]

Hi David.

It looks like you're putting some serious thought into your shop which is good.

Something to consider is looking into good quality true industrial tablesaw from exfactory or IRS auctions Something by notrhfield or tannewicz or oliver beefore they ewnt to the dark side.

Something like this with some elbow grease, and yo'll have the last saw you'll ever need: http://www.exfactory.com/Detail.aspx?recnum=ST-010777&refcatid=ST&menu=used

[Mark Blatter]

I have a Grizzly planer, but in the past owned a high end planer and jointer from Grizzly. I have liked all three tools.

However, I have already decided that when I can afford it, I will be buying a Saw Stop. I dinged a finger about eight weeks ago on a dado blade and just decided that even being very careful, stuff happens. I used a Saw Stop for a few years and was very impressed with the quality and performance, and when you include the safety aspect, it is a simple decision for me.

[Mike Schuch]

I have Powermatic 65 10" cabinet saw and a Powermatic 71 12" cabinet saw. They are both EXCELLENT saws! I was a little taken aback by my fathers old Rockwell contractors saw. After he put a little effort into tuning this $25 contractors saw it cuts every bit as well as my cabinet saws. With the Freud glue line rip blades we run in all 3 saws we have never run out of power with any of the saws... not even his contractors saw.

If it were me I would buy a contractors saw to "get me by" then wait for the right used sliding table saw to find its way to my place. BUT I don't mind refurbishing old wood working equipment.

[Rick Moyer]

I disagree with Mike. I would NOT buy a contractor saw. For a thousand bucks you can get a really nice cabinet saw which is much nicer to use (and adjust). What do you intend to use your saw for? I have a Grizzly 0691 which, as has been said, is the best bang for the buck. However, if you are doing a lot of sheet goods maybe a slider is better. If money isn't a huge concern, and you don't need a slider, probably I would recommend the SawStop. A PM66 has been the saw most other saws get compared to so you know it's highly regarded, but you'll not get the newer features like riving knife, safety stuff, etc. You'll just have to weigh the information available and decide for yourself ultimately.

[Aleks Hunter]

I have to agree with Mike. One of the enemies or preciesion cutting is vibration. THe sheer mass of a cabinet say, with cast iron trunnions and heavier arbor. multiple drive belts, goeas a long way to dampen vibration. THen there is dust collection accommodation. Plus contractor's saws are realistically limited to about 1.75 HP due to the constraints of 110 vac circuits. Get a cabinet saw, make it a 5 hp, if you cut corners and get a contractor's saw, you'll soon be shopping for the cabinet saw (heavier is better!) you should have bought in the first place.

[Jeff Duncan]

What types of saws have you used up until now? Is this a first saw for a hobby, or a new saw for a business? Advice will vary depending on where you are and what your experience is, but for the most part I'm a used machine type of guy. I appreciate some folks don't want to go that route and that's certainly fine, but I've bought a lot of machinery for my shop and the only stuff I haven't been too happy with was what I bought new;)

YMMV....good luck,
JeffD

[David Thomas1]

God I love this board. I thought the thread was dying until I realized that I wasn't getting email notifications of new messages because I didn't turn that on in the settings. Then I hit refresh on the open window and I got a million responses. Sorry for the lengthy response but I wanted to answer everyone who replied to my thread.

I think like everyone else, the biggest thing I'm looking for is perfect accuracy. If I knew that spending 15k would gurantee me that then I'd do it. But if I can get close to the same level and spend 1/10 of that then it's a no brainer.

I currently have a contractor's saw that I upgraded the fence, belt and pulleys; built a huge mobile base with router extension table, and tuned the crap out of it to the point where I'm confident it'll cut to 1/32". My biggest problems with it are it's underpowered and I constantly live in fear that every time I move the blade or something it's going to lose some accuracy.

I have no problems with tuning up or even completely rebuilding old tools if it'll save me money and I can achieve the perfection I want. My first table saw was a 1954 8" Craftsman. That sucker ruled and I wished my buddy sold it back to me instead of giving it away. Bastard.

Prashun, I'm going to get a big bad bandsaw. How big and bad I'm not sure yet. Trying to go one step at a time so I don't completely freak out about money. But I'm anticipating 2kish. If it's going to last me forever like I expect it too then it ends up not being that much money.

David, unless I'm looking in the wrong places, in my area (North of Boston) 90% of the used table saws are contractor saws. Every now and then you'll get like a solid cabinet saw but they tend to ask face value. And the sliders I've seen have been in rough shape except for this one that I should of bought...

Rod, you're killing me. I was SO close to finally talking myslef away from the Hammer I promised myself I'd buy as the first purchase for my shop. SO close. Does your Hammer put your buddy's Grizzly slider to shame? How was the shipping cost/time/hassle with Hammer? And did the extra cost quickly add up? I'm hesistant to start adding up all those numbers beause I don't want to kill the dream just yet.

Aleks, you mentioned IRS Auctions and that's exactly where I saw the PM66. I'm going to give them a call on my lunch break to setup a time to check it out before I start bidding. The auction ends Monday and though the reserve hasn't been met, the current price is $200. Maybe I'm being naive that it will sell this low but I'm thinking if I can get this thing for under 1k then discussion over.

Jeff, I have used a SawStop (multiple times) and a PM66 (once or twice) before. Outside of the safety features of the SS, I didn't really notice any difference between them. But maybe it's just because I didn't get enough time on them? This is going to be a saw for business and while I don't plan on using a lot of sheet goods, I kind of like the abitlity to do crank out cabinets if needed.

Thanks everyone for responding. You've given me hours more to think about/research. I think I can cross Jet off the list because if I'm going to spend 2300, might as well just spend 2600 and get a SawStop (please correct me if I'm wrong with this train of thought). Lastly, can I correctly lump Grizzly, Jet, Laguna, and Steel City as the middle of the pack group; SawStop, Powermatic, Delta, and the European Saws in the next level and beyond; and Craftsman, Ryobi, and all that fun stuff at the bottom?

[Matt Radtke]

? This is going to be a saw for business and while I don't plan on using a lot of sheet goods, I kind of like the abitlity to do crank out cabinets if needed.


Might there be a liability or insurance benefit to having the SawStop vs. not?

[Jeff Duncan]

OK so with a clearer picture a couple quick thoughts. First off your area.....(which also happens to be my area).....is rife with bargains, you just have to be patient;) Not to go too far off course but my two saws, a Uni and a 12" Wadkin together cost less than $800 and both came with Beis fences. It's all about patience when shopping for used equipment.

Second, as for perfection the closest you'll get would be a used Martin which you could certainly have within your $15k. Truth be told there's a guy who was selling one recently in our neighborhood, don't remember the price but I want to say around $4k? Of course it's a panel saw, but a good panel saw will get you a long way in this business;)

Classifying machines is somewhat subject to opinion though I'd grade all the machines you listed as being entry level. Powermatic, Delta, and Sawstop indeed would be the top of that grouping for me.....then there's everything else. In general there's some very good Euro equipment out there.....personally I wouldn't spend the cash for a new Hammer as I think they're kind of so so when you start getting into that class of machine. They're kind of entry level in the Euro slider world. I'd look hard at used before sinking that kind of money. My preference for a cabinet saw would be the Powermatic as I spent a fair amount of time using one and found it to be a better quality machine than the Unisaw. In my case the Unisaw was what came around at the right price and so that's what I use.

As far as IRS that's a good place to find the occasional good deal. I'd ballpark your 66 in the $700-$900 range, I seriously doubt it will exceed $1k....though I've been wrong before;) FWIW you can find a Unisaw pretty easily around here for <$800 or a PM66 for roughly $1k....again goes back to looking around and being patient. I passed on a 66 2 years ago b/c he wouldn't budge off his asking price of $900. I offered him $700, which was still far more than what he paid for it, (I happened to be at the auction where he bought it but the funds ran dry), I saw that saw listed on CL for what must have been close to a year. Don't know if he ever did sell it?

So lastly I'll ask what type of work are you involved in? You say you don't think you'll do much cabinetry so???? Reason I ask is b/c if your doing mostly furniture you may want to look into a different direction....like a Oliver dual blade saw with a slider for example! The thing is once you start buying equipment to make money, you want to get something that works best for your needs vs just picking up a Unisaw or whatever b/c they're popular. Of course if your starting out as a furniture maker you'll have far bigger problems than what table saw to buy anyway:eek:

good luck,
JeffD

[Kevin Womer]

Just my two cents. I had a Steel City for a few years, very similar to the Grizzly, Jet. It was a step up over the Delta contractor in terms of power, dust collection, making adjustments etc.. I upgraded to a Sawstop PCS this last fall. it is by far the best saw I have used. Very well built, accurate, powerful and was spot on right out of the box. I assume it is on the same level as Powermatic and the Delta Uni, I have not used either of those two saws, but definitely much better than the SC cabinet I had before. I went with the SS over the Uni as I wasn't sure about future parts availability and complaints of others on this forum concerning delta's customer service. If I had to do it again, I would buy the same saw, assuming I didn't have the money/room for a European saw, and wanted another cabinet saw.

[David Thomas1]

Might there be a liability or insurance benefit to having the SawStop vs. not?

Geez, I need to use spellcheck...but I'm the president, CEO, and janitor in this business so liability and insurance is not a factor.

[David Thomas1]

OK so with a clearer picture a couple quick thoughts. First off your area.....(which also happens to be my area).....is rife with bargains, you just have to be patient Not to go too far off course but my two saws, a Uni and a 12" Wadkin together cost less than $800 and both came with Beis fences. It's all about patience when shopping for used equipment.

I hate you. Not really but a little bit.

In all seriousness though, I feel like I've just been taken to school on Euro/Sliding saws and you definitely helped me zero in on what I want. I do work mostly in furniture so spending a ton on getting the most perfect sliding table saw really isn't a necessity. I just saw the price of a SawStop, then the saw that the Hammer wasn't that much more, would produce the same quality of work, AND give me the versatility in accurately and easily cutting up sheet goods. This quickly got me down the road to where I had to have a slider and thinking that only a few grand more will get me "fill in the blank" sliding table saw.

I think as of now my plan of attack is to hopefully get the PM66 on the cheap and start worrying about everything else that needs to be done with this shop buid.

Any more advice is definitely welcomed and when I figure out what I'm going to do I'll post again.

[Brent Ring]

I love my Grizzly G0623X slider. It has some limitations that I think all sliders have. Ripping small amounts is a bit of a task, but initial stock prep is great. I Think it has been the best investment in my shop so far. I just love it.

[Larry Fox]

Hi David, I have a Hammer B3 Winner with a 49 inch sliding table, outrigger and scoring saw.

Bigger is not necessarily better with sliders, mine will crosscut a sheet of plywood, yet has the compact ergonomics of a cabinet saw. Larger sliders are not that comfortable to use for solid wood components as the slider/base is often in the way.

That was very true for the small Grizzly slider a friend of mine purchased, it was far less ergonomic than the Hammer.

That said, you couldn't convince me to go back to a cabinet saw, the small slider has greater capacity and capability than a cabinet saw, in the same or smaller footprint.

Have another look at the Hammer, in light of what you need compared to the "bigger is always better' mantra.......Regards, Rod.

+1

Last winter I bought a used SCMI SL-12 slider from a fellow Creeker. It has a 60" sliding table and while it took me a long time to integrate it into my show it has been totally worth it. I am with Rob in that you probably could't convince me to go back to cabinet saw. My prior saw was a Unisaw with a 52" rip capacity and equipped with an Excalibur Sliding table. That thing took up SOOOOO much room - the slider with the outrigger removed (which it is most of the time) takes up far, far less room. The saw is dead-on accurate and I had a machinist make me up a handful of things to allow me to attach all sorts of cook gizmos to it. My advise, don't remove a used slider from your candidate list.

[Jeff Duncan]

I hate you. Not really but a little bit.



I think as of now my plan of attack is to hopefully get the PM66 on the cheap and start worrying about everything else that needs to be done with this shop buid.

Any more advice is definitely welcomed and when I figure out what I'm going to do I'll post again.

Well while I may now have a shop full of fairly high quality equipment most bought for pennies on the dollar, it took over a decade to get here. Not to mention all the new machines I bought, used for a while, and decided were just not up to the task! I've told the story on here before of spending close to $4k on a new import 20" planer only to regret the purchase and within a year swap for a much older Italian planer. That was one of a couple new machines I took a loss on. I've learned though that sometimes a short term hit is better in the long run when your trying to make a living with your equipment;)

So in my opinion I think you should pick up the 66 and get up and running. I still think you would find a lot of use for a nice older American sliding top saw, but the 66 will give you a lot of flexibility and if you can only have one saw now, that's going to be key! Besides one saw is never adequate and you'll eventually find yourself adding another saw or two over time:rolleyes: The Sawstop seems like a great saw and I do like it's safety aspect, it's just a good chunk of change for a 10" cabinet saw. I don't use the 10" saw much anymore, mostly for dados, I like the 12" and if I could fit it would even think about moving to a slightly bigger saw. But I digress......starting out with a new shop your going to have a LOT of expenses, many unforeseen, so while I definitely recommend starting out with the best equipment you can afford, I also caution you to keep a fair chunk of change in reserve for all those unexpected needs;)

Now......when do we start talking shapers? That's where I really start to have fun:D

JeffD

[David Thomas1]

Going down to insepct the PM66 today and probably a few other toys they have down there. Have my eye on this 16" L’Invincible jointer that I feel is asking me to buy her.

[David Thomas1]

Title says it all. The PM66 was in amazing condition. The Jointer was in amazing condition. Thankfully the guys where the machinery was asked if I had 3 Phase power (or electricity, whatever the right term is) and of course I don't. Electrician said he could run it from the 3 drop box if the power company allowed it. They closed til Monday so I don't even know...

Glad I was writing this while searching around for answers and maybe all isn't lost. At first I was thinking it was going to cost a fortune to get a 3 phase motor to work but apparently not? Going to keep looking into this whole VFD deal. Glad there's a ton of post about this so the answer will be found.

[Chris Padilla]

If you can get 3-phase wired into your shop, you'll open up a whole new world for yourself in terms of good ww'ing equipment that most of us single-phasers have to pass up. I'm very curious if the utility will do it and how much. Post back what you find out.

[Jacob Reverb]

If it were me I would buy a contractors saw to "get me by" then wait for the right used sliding table saw to find its way to my place.

+1

There are some good contractor's saws out there. My Powermatic 64 is smoother than some high-dollar cabinet saws I've used, and will do everything they will do, if slower. In the end, most of it comes down to the skill of the user, not the quality, fit, finish and price of the machine.

[johnny means]

These, along with a Sawstop ICS are the current residents in my shop.

IMO, the SS is a much better quality machine than the Hammer. As mentioned earlier the Hammer line is pretty low on the euro saw totem. I don't know much about current models but mine is not what I consider professional quality, not even close. The Sawstop is.

The Martin is, well, a Martin. Perfectly square every time. I winched it up onto a flatbed, jerked it around to slide it off the flatbed, put the outrigger back on and it cut square with no readjustment. Anyway, it actually cost me under $3000. These types of deals pop up all the time if you keep an eye out for them.

I posted the Festool because, when I was between large sliders, it became my go to saw for panel work. Plus, even after I found the Martin, the Festool is still a valuable part of my arsenal. If you have a serviceable tablesaw and plan on a slider in the future, a tracksaw may be another option that doesn't have you investing in temporary machinery.

[David Thomas1]

If you can get 3-phase wired into your shop, you'll open up a whole new world for yourself in terms of good ww'ing equipment that most of us single-phasers have to pass up. I'm very curious if the utility will do it and how much. Post back what you find out.

I absolutely will. Though I no longer think it's smart move for me financially I'm interested as well as to what they say.

Johnny, that Festool route is something I kind of thought about in the beginning but forgot about it. Definitely feeling that more and more I think about it.

But after doing a little/lot of digging to try to fully wrap my head around how to get a 3 phase saw running on 1 phase power, I think I've fully decided on getting the PM66 and getting a VFD for it. This plan of course full rides on winning the auction and getting the saw for less than 7 (VFD is going to be 350ish and I don't know what else is going to be needed to be done to get it all running smoothly). I'm sticking with my either go cheap or go balls out in terms of spending. Like Jeff was saying before, they're more available than I thought in my area so no need to panic if I don't get it. There's also still the consolation price of the unisaw which is going to go for dirt, mostly because the biesemeyer fence has been cut to 12". I wonder if I could make it work with my T2 rails?

For my Slider issue, I think I've gotten over my lovefest with the Hammer and moved on to a little affair with SCMI. Their bad website and inability to give me a price easily is what turned me off of them originally. But talking to a dealer and finding out what they cost, they're cheaper than the Hammer, all the "options" are standard, and can deliver it to me very quickly. Plus parts and service, if ever needed, is a super easy to get. Now I just need to research on how good they are. That could probably help.

Thanks again everyone for the help. Hopefully if all goes according to plan this thread can die out and I'll be adequately happy with a new saw (that'll sit in storage for at least a month until the shop is built). Wish me luck and hopefully I'll get more of everyone's advice when I start the thread "New (Fill in the Tool) for my new shop". Jointer, dust collector, band saw, and planer still have to be done since I'm holding over virtually nothing from my current shop.

[Jeff Duncan]

Two points for you to consider....

First, if you can get three phase do so.....even if it means holding off on buying machines in the short run, what it will open up for you in the long run is worth every penny. The vast majority of equipment your going to find at auctions is going to be 3 phase. VFD's and RPC's are fine for guys who cannot get three phase, but there's nothing better than having it run right from the power co.! It will be the most important tool in your shop.....Seriously.....get it!

Second, many of the pro level dealers out there are still not up to pace with the more hobby geared guys in terms of websites and user experience. However companies like SCM, Martin and some others manufacture machinery your going to retire with....plain and simple. I bought my 20" SCM planer from a retiring cabinetmaker who kept referring to it as "new", since he had bought it new......a long time ago! I don't know exactly how old it is but it's certainly 30+ years and it still works day ofter day turning out stock. In terms of shapers they're probably second only to Martin. They just make really good stuff. I can't help you with their sliders as I just don't have much info there. Other good companies to look at are Altendorf, Casadei, and Martin.....used anyway:rolleyes:

good luck,
JeffD

[Jeff Duncan]

So.......you get it???

[Peter Quinn]

Round here getting native 3 phase has two downsides; it takes a pile of cash and an act of congress to get it run to a non commercial address or outbuilding.....I looked into it. Just cause its on the pole doesn't mean they'll let me have it. Second, it's real expensive. Funny thing, if your using it to get paid they want a piece of you. And most people asking for 3 phase are getting paid....or industrial toolaholics. Yes, for my usage in the home shop over a 20 year run or so it's actually cheaper to convert from single than run it in native. I'd be curious to hear how your situation goes. If its a commercial shop at a commercial address and they will drop in 3 phase, very good plan to do so.

[David Thomas1]

So.......you get it???
Sorry, should've posted earlier but the town said no to my first garage size so I've been redoing plans. It's understandable though because I was trying to pass off a 25x60 shop as a garage.

Short version of the story is no, I didn't. I estimated high at $300 for what it would cost for a 3hp single phase converter and I wasn't paying over $1000 for the saw, so my max bid was $700. The converter looks like it'll go for $250 but regardless, the saw sold for $789 so it was still more than what I was willing to pay.

Howsoever I did take home the consolation prize of the Rockwell Unisaw. The downside is that it's also a 5hp 3ph motor and the Biesemeyer fence rails were cut down to 12". The plus side is I have a T2 fence on my contractor saw that I can slap on and it only cost $225. Wasn't my first choice and not as good but at this price I can't see the downside. I'm now trying to decide if it's worth going the converter route or just swapping the motor. Unlike the PM66 motor, there seems to be a lot of Unisaw motors out there.

I haven't had a chance to call the poco about the 3 line drop but I will tomorrow morning on my commute. With the downsized shop I'm definitely not going to need it seeing how I won't be able to fit in the machines I want. But I'm still interested to see if they will. I know that the landscape construction company across the street from me has it so it makes me feel like I have a better chance than others.

Lastly, with having a smaller shop and thinking about the logistics of the moving the jointer, storing while the build goes on, then moving again, I decided not to even try for it. But when I saw it sell for $825, I wanted to punch myself in the face for not manning up and finding a way to make it happen. 16" SCM L'invincible jointer, all cast iron, $825. Would've been sweet to have.

[David Thomas1]

Round here getting native 3 phase has two downsides; it takes a pile of cash and an act of congress to get it run to a non commercial address or outbuilding.....I looked into it. Just cause its on the pole doesn't mean they'll let me have it. Second, it's real expensive. Funny thing, if your using it to get paid they want a piece of you. And most people asking for 3 phase are getting paid....or industrial toolaholics. Yes, for my usage in the home shop over a 20 year run or so it's actually cheaper to convert from single than run it in native. I'd be curious to hear how your situation goes. If its a commercial shop at a commercial address and they will drop in 3 phase, very good plan to do so.

Residential address as well so looks like the power company may just laugh in my face.

[Jeff Duncan]

I didn't follow the auction so didn't see any final prices.....FWIW I paid $2700 for my EMA 16" jointer which is a rougher, less refined version of the SCM:rolleyes: So I'd say yeah, $825 was a pretty darn good price you'll not likely come across again anytime soon:( You may even want to kick yourself after you punch yourself in the face:D

JeffD

[David Thomas1]

I didn't follow the auction so didn't see any final prices.....FWIW I paid $2700 for my EMA 16" jointer which is a rougher, less refined version of the SCM:rolleyes: So I'd say yeah, $825 was a pretty darn good price you'll not likely come across again anytime soon:( You may even want to kick yourself after you punch yourself in the face:D

JeffD
Haha I probably will.

Power company did say no on the 3 phase drop. Said that they'd only allow do it to residence that needed that much power/exceeded "normal" power use. I guess I'll try again when I win the lottery and build my mansion.

Thanks everyone for the help. Hopefully I can get your input again on the next thread I start.