Moving a bandsaw (ideas needed)

[Andrew Howe]

Hi guys, I am getting a new band saw (17") and will likely take delivery late this week. I have a daylight basement entry point and need to get the saw from the street to the basement door through a 3 foot opening (fence gate). THe slope is gentle, about 6 feet from street level and over about 100'. I would like some suggestions from experts who have done this before. I have a cart like this, but I think it is too small. I am thinking of renting a cart (big one) and have the lift gate operator set it on it. The weight is about 400ibs so it will be a bit heavy. I have the ability to hook my winch up to it from my truck and pull it forward from behind with some pulleys, etc. but I am concerned with instability (could be managed with outrigger screwed into the box frame for stability). Another idea was to make a sled contraption and slide it across yard and up to patio, and put on rollers and move inside. Another option would be to build a simple furniture moving cart (large), make a section of track out of wood and move cart 4', stop, put next section of track up, and continue..... Is there an easier way???266433266434

[Myk Rian]

You didn't say what size the saw is, but anyway,
Borrow a garden trailer, and haul it in that. Or a small utility trailer.
Anything with wider tires.

[Gordon Eyre]

Hi guys, I am getting a new band saw (17") and will likely take delivery late this week. I have a daylight basement entry point and need to get the saw from the street to the basement door through a 3 foot opening (fence gate). THe slope is gentle, about 6 feet from street level and over about 100'. I would like some suggestions from experts who have done this before. I have a cart like this, but I think it is too small. I am thinking of renting a cart (big one) and have the lift gate operator set it on it. The weight is about 400ibs so it will be a bit heavy. I have the ability to hook my winch up to it from my truck and pull it forward from behind with some pulleys, etc. but I am concerned with instability (could be managed with outrigger screwed into the box frame for stability). Another idea was to make a sled contraption and slide it across yard and up to patio, and put on rollers and move inside. Another option would be to build a simple furniture moving cart (large), make a section of track out of wood and move cart 4', stop, put next section of track up, and continue..... Is there an easier way???266433266434


Will it be delivered in two boxes? If so it will be much easier to handle. If it is already assembled I would for sure remove the table. A refrigerator dolly and two friends would do the trick although they have relatively small wheels to be pulling it over your lawn. We moved several large boulders over similar terrain and distance with a sturdy cart and four planks to roll it on. We leap frogged the planks ahed to keep a track going for the wheels on the cart. The boulders were much heavier than your bandsaw and there were only three of us.

[glenn bradley]

The tire width seems like you main challenge here. I have crossed lawns with a couple sheets of plywood laid end-to-end, rolling across both and then moving the first one in front of the second one and continuing. Some larger saw come with the table separate but, even if not a few bolts and it is off, the doors are generally made to be removed. If you are comfortable with it, removing the motor would reduce weight as well. This may make what is usually a tall unwieldy shape to move, a bit more manageable. If you broke it down as described above, a couple men could probably just carry it down the hill coffin style.

[Stephen Cherry]

400 lbs is a pretty light machine. I'm not saying that I can lift 400 lbs, but I sure can bump it around. I have moved many machines, from bench top to about 2000 lbs, and 400 lbs is easy. That said, if you let it get away from you, it will hurt. I would not use that hand truck.

If it were me, I'd go for the sled. If you have 3 friends, that could be easily carried. If you are energetic, you could make a little wagon.

The key to moving machines, in my opinion, is to think about how the Egyptians would have done it. Ramps, wheels, rope. Bandsaws generally need to be moved laying on their backs.

[Aleks Hunter]

Hi,
Go to U-Haul and rent an appliance dolly, stop at a beverage store and pick up a couple of six packs of something nice and call three beefy friends who like beer and carry it.
Beer~ $20
Future conversation value of the big bandsaw wrestling match: Priceless
""Behold the rain which descends from heaven upon our vineyards, there it enters the roots of the vines, to be changed into wine, a constant proof that God loves us, and loves to see us happy." -- Benjamin Franklin.

[ray hampton]

you got two problems , the 3 foot wide gate is too narrow but I would back a pick-up truck to your basement door ,then pay your friends to ease it into the final spot

[Jim Matthews]

I would not roll this.

Rather, I would build a ramp using plywood, cardboard and wax to let it slide.
The wheels shown will have a concentrated load on them, and will likely sink into the lawn.

If the wheels were inflated, as on a piano mover's dolly - I might say different.

In your case, downhill, speed is NOT an asset.
The idea is to get the saw moving slowly, and continually to the doorway.

The hardest part should be getting it over the transom. This would be a good place for something with wheels.
Perhaps your local rental company can supply a Johnson bar and machinery dollies, those are built for this.

If there is a side mounted motor remove it first, lest it be removed by the narrow doorway.
Take the cast iron table off, as well including any trunnions.

In essence, any moving part attached to the body of the saw that doesn't have a cover can get snagged or ripped off the frame.
Tape the upper and lower doors shut.

As was mentioned before, most of the weight in these designs is on the spine or backbone of the saw.
If you tip it up on its back and make a "sled" of waxed cardboard, you can ease it down the hill.

I would use a few lifting straps and employ whatever help is available.

You can do this on your own, but it's a Darwin award in the making...
If there's a winch available (somebody you know with a Jeep has always wanted to use theirs) - I would use that to slowly slide it down.

One at the winch, one on either side steering the load.
I would seriously consider taking down a section of the fence, in advance.

If you've got a little scratch available, Piano movers could do this in about twenty minutes.
They're used to this kind of thing, have all the gear and able bodies at the ready.

While they may be a more expensive way to do this, getting a fully functional bandsaw home without giving blood is worth something.
Imagine what a trip to the ER will add to your total costs...sometimes professionals are worth what they charge.

The "fun" notwithstanding, this is a large piece of gear to move if you've not done something like it before.

http://www.pianomoversnetwork.com/piano_movers_ga.htm

[Aleks Hunter]

daughter and I got a 1200 lb garland range table saw through a 32" door, ) Ok the door frames did have to come off because the stove is 34" deep with the back vent housing removed) so a three foot gate is not much of an impediment

[Jim Andrew]

Looking at the picture, I see bushes, so assume the gate is hidden by them. If you have an open space, with only the fence, think I would remove the fence so I could get my small pickup through, but you probably don't want to saw off any bushes. And I would not cross the lawn if the ground is wet. Lay off watering, if the ground is damp, so it will get solid.

[Jim Matthews]

daughter and I got a 1200 lb garland range table saw through a 32" door, ) Ok the door frames did have to come off because the stove is 34" deep with the back vent housing removed) so a three foot gate is not much of an impediment

On a dolly? Did you cover the same kind of ground as the OP, or was this off a pallet and into your garage?
This move has gravity working both for (they're carrying it the direction it wants to go) and against (it could take off, if they're not careful) the move.

Flat ground moves are very different than uneven ground.

[Myk Rian]

Hi,
Go to U-Haul and rent an appliance dolly, stop at a beverage store and pick up a couple of six packs of something nice and call three beefy friends who like beer and carry it.
Beer~ $20
Just what everybody needs. A bunch of drunks moving machinery. :eek: :D

[Larry Browning]

I am a bit confused. Are you going up hill or down hill? From you comment about about using a winch I was assuming you were going up hill, but it seems that others are assuming you are going down hill. BTW: when I received my new Grizzly 17" bandsaw, it specifically stated in big red letters to not lay it down.

[ray hampton]

I am a bit confused. Are you going up hill or down hill? From you comment about about using a winch I was assuming you were going up hill, but it seems that others are assuming you are going down hill. BTW: when I received my new Grizzly 17" bandsaw, it specifically stated in big red letters to not lay it down.

this is a good question, thank you for asking it

[Ryan Mooney]

BTW: when I received my new Grizzly 17" bandsaw, it specifically stated in big red letters to not lay it down.

Mine to - but I'm still not sure why?!? Plenty of other new saws are shipped recumbent on their spines and I see old tools moved laying down in various directions all of the time so having a reason would sure be nice to know. This isn't entirely academic as I foresee having to move mine at some point in the not-to-distant future and having options as to orientation may well be useful.

As to the original question I've moved some pretty heavy stuff with the two sheets of plywood and rollers method. As others have noted the trick here is to not let it get away from you in whichever direction you're moving. For that reason on a slope I'd have a preference for the lowest center of gravity possible. You can definitely slide ~400lbs if you make a small sled to put it on and have decent leverage. For either a sled or rollers on plywood (for rollers short pieces of metal pipe or broom handle sized poles or .. similar work) I'd also want to chock it as I went. Basically have someone on each side, heave - kick the chocks, repeat.

The appliance dolly .. will probably work.. but its on the upper end of where I'd feel comfortable with it, especially on a slope.

[Larry Browning]

Hey guys,
Andrew doesn't seem to be answering his own post, so let's take a poll.
Who thinks he is going up hill? He mentioned he might want to use a winch, and he did say "Another idea was to make a sled contraption and slide it across yard and up to patio".

Who thinks he is going down hill? I mean after all, he said it was going in a daylight basement, and all the vehicles are parked above, seeming to imply the street is up there somewhere, so he would need to get it down that hill.

[ray hampton]

Hey guys,
Andrew doesn't seem to be answering his own post, so let's take a poll.
Who thinks he is going up hill? He mentioned he might want to use a winch, and he did say "Another idea was to make a sled contraption and slide it across yard and up to patio".

Who thinks he is going down hill? I mean after all, he said it was going in a daylight basement, and all the vehicles are parked above, seeming to imply the street is up there somewhere, so he would need to get it down that hill.

Andrew mentioned using his truck to pull the tool, IF he can drive his truck to the house , then load his saw into his truck and drive to the basement-unload
I VOTE uphill

[Myk Rian]

From the picture, it looks downhill. Not to mention it's a basement.

[Andrew Howe]

Hi guys i have been monitoring thread. Lots of.great ideas, saw is being moved uphill.
I found a large dolly with wheels big wheels that should work. I think.i am going to make some wood skis and mount on end of dolly (if needed). This would let me pull it uphill with my truck winch. This may not be necessary of i find it easy to move with dolly alone.
Does that make sense?
Also, i may make a johnson bar to use as well.

[Andrew Howe]

Did my response post?

[Andrew Howe]

its uphill. I should post a picture of my driveway u would laugh.
From the picture, it looks downhill. Not to mention it's a basement.

[Andrew Howe]

Hi Guys,

I have been monitoring the thread and did not get to respond over the weekend.
So the answer to the poll..... is uphill.
I appreciate all the posts and comments on moving the saw. I found a place to rent a dolly with large tires and I think I am going to go that route. If the saw is not too heavy, I may wheel it up myself. However, the plan is to make a set of wood skis that are as wide as the fence gate and temporarily mount them to the front/top of dolly. I then can lay it down so it sort of resembles a snowmobile and use the winch of my truck to pull it up the hill.
I think the concern of keeping them upright is due to stressing the trunions if the table top is mounted. I guess I can ask Grizzly before it arrives.
Does this make sense????

It is in one crate so the two box route is not going to work.
I also think I may make a simple johnsons bar if I have some time as I like those for moving things around. Great idea and suggestion.
I will take some pictures of my progress as soon as I find something out.....

Andrew

[Keith Woodworth]

I'm old enough and have had 9 vertebra rebuilt so when I need something really heavy moved I check the movers adds in Craigslist. It is cheaper to pay movers than spend another 8 weeks on disability.

[Jim Matthews]

Thank you for catching that.

Review of the photograph shows a gate clearly at the TOP of the rise.
I would ask the neighbor with the driveway next to it for permission to cross the hedge,
and use of the pad which is at the same height as the fence.

Dragging this thing 6' up a 100' rise is a Sysphean task.

Good catch there, LB.

[Jim Matthews]

Can you secure permission from the neighbor with the driveway shown?

If you stand to the good to repair the hedge, it should be easier.
Hauling 400 pounds plus the crate 6' up a 100' rise is not easy.

I wonder if you have a hardpoint near the house where you could rig a block and tackle or winch?

I still think hiring piano movers makes real sense on something this size - even more so on an uphill move.

[Larry Browning]

Andrew,
I can tell you from experience that the table is shipped with the table unattached to the trunnion. It is possible to remove the table and a few other things like the fence and parts bag from the crate which is more like a simple wooden frame which give you easy access remove stuff. However, even after removing all that stuff, it is still very heavy and bulky. I think the best advice is to round up 2 or even 3 helpers. This will make the task much easier.

BTW: I wish you would have left us in the dark a bit longer on the uphill/downhill poll. It would have been fun to read all the theories about why folks thought one way or the other. Oh, and for the record, I was right, I though it was uphill.:D
BTW#2: What the heck is a johnsons bar???? My imagination is running wild!!!!!!

[Andrew Howe]

Great idea,:) I should ask my neighbor if he does not mind if they back the truck up his driveway. It is nearly a flat run to the gate....

[Dan Hintz]

Been there, done that! Only got a sore back and beat up hands, no T-shirt...

My situation was similar, but the slope of the hill was quite a bit heavier. 18" Jet, going down a hill, through a gate, then back up a hill. It was done with a handtruck (similar to what you have, but without the smaller wheels) and initially one good-sized neighbor. I think a second neighbor joined in near the end. NOTE: My neighbors don't answer their doors any more when trucks pull up outside my house). The large wheels will be fine, the small ones will immediately sink into even the most solid ground with 400+ pounds on it. Buy some straps to tie it to the dolly. Expect to put in a lot of sweat equity.

I removed every bit of dead weight I could... both wheels, the table, etc. Thinking back, I probably could have removed the doors without too much trouble, and every few pounds helps. Lay it down on its back/spine with some padding underneath. Start pulling/grunting.

[Joseph Tarantino]

Great idea,:) I should ask my neighbor if he does not mind if they back the truck up his driveway. It is nearly a flat run to the gate....

always remember..if you're working hard at anything physical, you're usually doing it wrong. at least that's the way my mechanical engineer dad taught us how to approach physical world problems.

[Art Mulder]

BTW: when I received my new Grizzly 17" bandsaw, it specifically stated in big red letters to not lay it down.


Andrew,I can tell you from experience that the table is shipped with the table unattached to the trunnion.

Has anyone asked Grizzly why? Because if the table is not attached then I don't understand this at all.

I bought my 17" Grizzly second hand, and as I own a mini-van, then only way it was getting home was to lay it on it's spine in the van.
And yes, we first removed the table. It sure did not do my saw any harm. I don't know what problem there could be with laying it down.

Andrew, my saw was also in the 400lb range. The Table accounts for a good 50lb+ of that, so removing the table cuts the weight down. As well, the doors on my Grizzly just lifted right off, so that is another way to easily remove some weight. So I think that cart would work fine. But with that said, using your neighbours driveway does sound even easier~!! :D

[Andrew Howe]

I spoke to Grizzly per laying on spine.
From our discussion, a short distance unloading from a vehicle to a final resting place is not optimal, but would likely not cause issues.
They do not recommend transporting them this way in a vehicle as there is a higher risk potential for damage. Thus they are shipped upright.
Based on my decisions to move saw from truck to shop, I will not have to lay it on its spine to move it.

A

Has anyone asked Grizzly why? Because if the table is not attached then I don't understand this at all.

I bought my 17" Grizzly second hand, and as I own a mini-van, then only way it was getting home was to lay it on it's spine in the van.
And yes, we first removed the table. It sure did not do my saw any harm. I don't know what problem there could be with laying it down.

Andrew, my saw was also in the 400lb range. The Table accounts for a good 50lb+ of that, so removing the table cuts the weight down. As well, the doors on my Grizzly just lifted right off, so that is another way to easily remove some weight. So I think that cart would work fine. But with that said, using your neighbours driveway does sound even easier~!! :D

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Andrew, being weak and lazy, I moved my 17" band saw into the basement, down the stairs by myself.

I took the two cast iron wheels off, the table and the motor off, as well as the two doors, that reduced it to about half of the original weight.

A two wheel hand cart, a strap to hold it in place and it was very easy.

Regards, Rod.

[Erik Loza]

Interesting. I always recommend (and prefer to personally do it this way...) moving bandsaws on their spines. Whether in a truck bed or across a surface. In fact, we deliver them that way. Many years ago, we delivered them standing up but too much freight damage. Since we began delivering them on a flat pallet, laying down, I rarely if ever have to replace a machine.

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[Andrew Howe]

This is an interesting insight. I would think with non-cast iron spine bandsaws, there would be less potential damage compared to one that is cast iron.
The key I guess is to be careful....
Thank you for posting.

Interesting. I always recommend (and prefer to personally do it this way...) moving bandsaws on their spines. Whether in a truck bed or across a surface. In fact, we deliver them that way. Many years ago, we delivered them standing up but too much freight damage. Since we began delivering them on a flat pallet, laying down, I rarely if ever have to replace a machine.

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[Jim Matthews]

Hi Andrew, being weak and lazy, I moved my 17" band saw into the basement, down the stairs by myself.

That, my friends is an example of understatement.
Lemme guess, you're descended from Paul Bunyan?

[Jim Matthews]

This is an interesting insight. I would think with non-cast iron spine bandsaws, there would be less potential damage compared to one that is cast iron.
The key I guess is to be careful....
Thank you for posting.

It's more about lowering the center of gravity, and spreading the load.
If it does tip over, there's less angular momentum to contend with at the point of impact.

Think of it like this, when Pianos are moved, the "long" side is always down.

[Keith Pitman]

If I still lived in Atlanta, I would have volunteered to help you, as long as you agreed to reciprocate. :-) I had my own 17" Grizzly bandsaw delivered today. It went very smoothly. I backed my trailer up to the delivery truck's lift and The driver rolled the saw on his two wheel hand truck onto my trailer. I strapped it down and drove up the hill and around the house to the workshop (aka garage). My neighbor came over and we strapped it to my two wheel hand truck, rolled it down the ramp and into the shop. (We removed the "crate" and the two parts containers before moving it off the trailer.) It's now sitting in the workshop waiting for me to set it up tomorrow. Good luck with your delivery, Andrew, it's not as bad as you think it might be.

[Erik Loza]

Andrew, I just looked over your first post in detail. Here are my suggestions, for what they are worth.

First, your saw will not be as heavy as it seems. I have moved many, many MM16's, which are 500+lbs., by myself. "Yes", that is 500+ lbs. but it's not like a sack of cement (the other day, I had to move our king-size Thermarest mattress, which might weigh 150lbs. but is 100% dead weight with no places to grab and trust me, I would have rather moved an MM16 any day of the week...). You can hug, wrestle, grab, and otherwise manhandle a big bandsaw pretty easily.

I think your dolly will be fine but would encourage you to get a friend or neighbor to help. It will want to run on you as you descend the grade. Also (you probably already planned to do this...), strap the saw to the dolly with some nylon ratcheting straps. If that is too sketchy, what I do these days is lay the saw down on its spine and use a couple of small furniture dollies...

266674...lash it to the dollies and then you can safely push the machine/lower down a grade quite easily. This is the only way I can really do our 20" and 24" saws, for example.

I am not personally familiar with your bandsaw but the one thing I might do is remove any aluminum parts which stick out, such as fence rails, etc., just in case. You should not need to disassemble the machine beyond that. In fact, I find the cast iron table good for hanging onto.

Best of luck with it,

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[Dan Hintz]

I used two of the dollies Erik shows... plan on putting down some plywood as they'll sink right into the grass.

[Larry Browning]

Andrew, I just looked over your first post in detail.
....It will want to run on you as you descend the grade...
...lash it to the dollies and then you can safely push the machine/lower down a grade quite easily.....
Erik Loza
Minimax USA

Erik, Erik, Erik.......
You probably should have looked over some of the other posts in detail as well. If you had, you would have realized that he is needing to move the saw up the hill. We took a poll and everything!!! Just kidding;) Plus, I think all this advice may end up being moot anyway, if he can get his neighbor to agree to let him unload in his driveway. We are all waiting with bated breath to hear the results.

[Erik Loza]

Ha! I must have missed that indeed. Yah, I'm interested in how it worked out as well.

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[Larry Browning]

Ha! I must have missed that indeed. Yah, I'm interested in how it worked out as well.

Erik Loza
Minimax USA
I kinda wished he would have let us keep guessing as it being uphill or downhill a little longer. Of course entertaining us was not the point of this thread, now was it?

[Erik Loza]

I kinda wished he would have let us keep guessing as it being uphill or downhill a little longer. Of course entertaining us was not the point of this thread, now was it?

I think that "receiving and moving heavy machines as one person" was the original Crossfit workout. Cannot tell you how many times I've wrestled an MM16 out of or into a crate or had to move one across an entire exposition hall by myself (naturally, no forklift driver to be found when you are ready to move the machine...). So much fun.

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[Stephen Cherry]

This is a pretty long discussion for a machine that could be moved with 4 beers and 3 friends/neighbors, or a good wagon. Plus, everybody knows to move bandsaws while laying on their backs.

[Larry Browning]

TPlus, everybody knows to move bandsaws while laying on their backs.

I have found I do better at moving stuff if I am standing up and then bend at the knees!

[Larry Browning]

Did anybody ever hear back from Andrew? I am curious as to how this turned out.

[Dan Hintz]

He's trapped in his yard under a large piece of equipment...

[Jim Matthews]

Yeah, but with all the money he saved he can afford a private room in the hospital.

[Andrew Howe]

Hi All,

I made it safely into the work shop after huffing and puffing for 45min in the heat and humidity. Yes my back muscles were sore for a few days.
So I want to highlight a few things when moving a band saw.
1. make sure it is absolutely evenly distributed on the cart, otherwise it can be a bit tippy
2. When laying out plywood to cross a walkway, yard, etc. MAKE sure they are LEVEL as can be (otherwise, you may have a disaster) I had to pull back a few times and add some additional support under the plywood.
3. MDF is not a good idea, as it is very slippery to walk on, so be careful

So here are the pictures267313 267312267314
I did not take pics on the way up, but as someone suggested, I used the neighbors driveway and crossed about 20' of grass, a slight incline up and through the gate, across the walkway to the patio and into the work shop.
I am in the process of setting it up and will post a picture or two.
Enjoy:)

[ray hampton]

Andrew, I did not think about the length of your hand truck handle,moving a crate that are in your face are not easy BUT I am glad for your moving job being finish and a succeed, NOW I want more pictures of the machine up and running

[Gordon Eyre]

Nothing like success, congrats on the move.

[Chris Fournier]

Woodworkers get pretty excited about moving their "heavy" equipment. All sizzle, no steak. School girls could move a 400 pound machine over terrain. Have a plan, get help if you need it but foremost think like a 4000 year old Egyptian and get it done. I moved a 400 pound lift today by my lonesome, gasp, I'm almost fifty and I'll sleep like a baby tonight. Don't be dramatic be pragmatic!

[ray hampton]

Woodworkers get pretty excited about moving their "heavy" equipment. All sizzle, no steak. School girls could move a 400 pound machine over terrain. Have a plan, get help if you need it but foremost think like a 4000 year old Egyptian and get it done. I moved a 400 pound lift today by my lonesome, gasp, I'm almost fifty and I'll sleep like a baby tonight. Don't be dramatic be pragmatic!

400 lbs , why this is nothing , I moved a 4000 lbs machine by myself every time I go for a drive

[Jim Matthews]

foremost think like a 4000 year old Egyptian and get it done. Don't be dramatic be pragmatic!

"You two - one in the front, one in the back, and keep it straight."
"You two - one on either side, lift with your legs."

"I'm going back to the tent to find my spleen. Anybody read Heiroglyphs? I've misplaced my bifocals..."
267362

[Dan Hintz]

Woodworkers get pretty excited about moving their "heavy" equipment. All sizzle, no steak. School girls could move a 400 pound machine over terrain. Have a plan, get help if you need it but foremost think like a 4000 year old Egyptian and get it done. I moved a 400 pound lift today by my lonesome, gasp, I'm almost fifty and I'll sleep like a baby tonight. Don't be dramatic be pragmatic!

You're a better man than me, then... I've moved several 400-pound pieces of equipment into my basement (down a hill) and none were fun in the least. Minimum was two people for the lighter stuff, generally four are necessary for a safe move on the big stuff.

Everything seems easy when the path is straight and level...

[Chris Fournier]

You're a better man than me, then... I've moved several 400-pound pieces of equipment into my basement (down a hill) and none were fun in the least. Minimum was two people for the lighter stuff, generally four are necessary for a safe move on the big stuff.

Everything seems easy when the path is straight and level...


Perhaps more desperate rather than better. I've moved several metalworking machines into basements, I moved my lathe and mill into my basement alone - 1250 to 1450 pound machines, then I set them in place, the lathe was tough getting it onto the stand as was building the mill back up. My basement is a mere 6 stairs down but I built the staircase to take this activity. Rope, dollies, pry bar, engine hoist, pipe and a pencil neck like me can do this. I'm no hero, I have a safe plan and I'm prepared when the iron shows up, anyone can do it!