Don't give a rip or is it time to buy a bandsaw thread

[Tony Wilkins]

So I was out trying to saw a table leg out of walnut. I've always read that ripping is tough and found it true thus far. After several minutes (and about half way down the 28" leg) I was pretty well spent. I began to think that I'd be done with all four right now if I had a bandsaw or table saw or something. I went the hand tool route because with my PTSD I hate the sound of power tools and for some reason now have an aversion to the fast spinning blades of death. Those things still apply.

All that said, how do you handle rips?

TIA,
Tony

[David Weaver]

I sit on whatever I'm ripping if it has any significant amount of length. That allows two-handed saw use which you can do almost indefinitely. Makes for a much less sore sawyer the next day, too. If your leg is about 3" thick, it should be something you can do in walnut ultimately in a few minutes without getting too tired. Ripping all of them might be enough to make you tired, though, and if you're sawing in a more traditional stance, but the hand holding the saw bench and the arm doing the sawing will both be tired.

[Steve Voigt]

Tony,
First off, my sincere condolences for your affliction. And thank you for your service to this country. You and your fellow servicemen and women do not get 1% of the gratitude you deserve.
It sounds to me like your saw is not sharp. Forgive me if I'm beating a dead horse here, but from your previous posts it seems like you might have an aversion to sharpening. My suggestion is to tackle this issue first. In sawing, as in everything else, sharpening is the gateway skill. If you can't sharpen, you are dependent on others, and the postal service, to get your saws sharp, and you will always be forcing dull tools because you subconsciously dread having to send them out.
Also, given your situation, you might find that sharpening is just the thing. Done properly, it is a meditative, calming, therapeutic activity.
There's a real connection between hand tool use and Tai Chi or Judo: You have to constantly seek the path of least resistance, rather than forcing and using brute force. It sounds like you may be doing the latter (I do this a lot, too, but I keep trying for that zen-like approach and it gets easier all the time).
I strongly encourage you to stick with the hand-tool approach for all the reasons above, but again sharpening seems like the first thing to tackle. In your last thread, Dave W. and I both posted some preliminary advice on saw sharpening--we disagree about the 42x but otherwise the advice is the same. And he's probably right anyway--the 42x is def easier if you're a beginner.
Beyond that, a little Googling will turn up hundreds of pages of great advice on saw sharpening, so get searching! And good luck.

-Steve

[Zach Dillinger]

David has it right on. You will get tired, even if you saw correctly. The only way to succeed is to make sure that you are as efficient as possible with your movements and your work support, and make sure your saw is SHARP (EDIT: Steve is right on, he was typing as I was typing and our messages crossed). Good sawing shouldn't leave you really out of breath or too sweaty unless you do too much of it (depending on your physical condition) in a short period of time or your work support and tooling is sub-optimal.

As to how I handle rips, I use a 28" rip saw, usually a 5 1/2 but sometimes an 8, and go to work. Get in a good rhythm, be smooth and not in a hurry, and keep your plate waxed.

[Tony Wilkins]

The saw should be sharp; it's the Wenzloff from the first thread and this is the first time I've used it. Maybe an issue of it being a relatively high TPI (though I can't remember exactly what it is)? Work holding is probably not optimal. I'm using a B&D workmate because I'm trying to wait until after we move in a few months to avoid the movers destroying it.

[David Weaver]

Yeah, probably not optimal. One way or another, you need to be solidly oriented so that you can use bodyweight. In the case of leaning over a saw bench, your arm and shoulder are bearing down on the saw. In my fat lazy sitting case, both of my arms are pulling from somewhere near my forehead and then pushing down on the saw.

You can make a saw bench out of a single 2x12. I'll post a picture of mine at some point, i should be ashamed. I made it out of a 2x12 in less than an hour. it works great, even though it's horrid looking, I'm glad I didn't spend any more time on it.

[Tony Wilkins]

I liked the look of the one that was posted on here a few days ago (saw bench that is). Probably could take a 'time out" from my table to make it. Only lumber I have handy is poplar and cherry. Any way I could use either of those? Also have the walnut I have for the table (8/4) that I have plenty of.

[David Weaver]

It really doesn't matter what you use for the lumber on a saw bench. Sooner or later, you'll hit it with a saw, anyway. I wouldn't waste 8/4 walnut of any stripe on it. Mine is a DF 2x12. It's dented up, but I don't care.

[Jim Koepke]

It really doesn't matter what you use for the lumber on a saw bench.

My saw benches are made of culls from Home Depot. Can often get a few good pieces of 2X for anywhere from 51¢ to a couple of bucks. Occasionally I have been successful at talking someone in the lumber department to lower the price. That only involves them spraying a different color of paint on the end.

As much as I like my saw horses they don't have to be treated like high priced pieces of art.

jtk

[David Weaver]

My saw benches are made of culls from Home Depot. Can often get a few good pieces of 2X for anywhere from 51¢ to a couple of bucks. Occasionally I have been successful at talking someone in the lumber department to lower the price. That only involves them spraying a different color of paint on the end.

As much as I like my saw horses they don't have to be treated like high priced pieces of art.

jtk

I kind of like to not have to pay attention to my shop furniture or care if I spill stone swarf on it or drop something on it, ..or in this case especially, rip a saw mark into it by accident.

[Sam Stephens]

good all round advice. sawing should be efficient and move at a good pace. for me, a saw bench fits the bill for good support and positioning my body. If i lived in a walnut-cherry forest, I'd probably use walnut or cherry, but since I'm in the SE where yellow pine is plentiful and cheap, it's my go to. Any borg lumber will do, or if you'd rather use what you've got, then I'd use the poplar -4/4, 8/4, don't matter which. As David indicated, it took me all of a few cuts to put the first nick/cut into my saw bench so don't fret over how it looks, just get it done. Keep it simple so that it fit your needs now so you can get back to your project. JMTCW.

Sam

[Pedro Reyes]

... I was pretty well spent.

Tony

Tony,

Last week I started to make a rocking horse for my 2 year old out of 6/4 Cherry. This after about almost 4 years without really touching tools except for the occasional therapeutic sharpening session. Anyway, it was like being a newb again and I re-learned that, in addition to sharpness and position, the thing that tired me the most was trying to push the saw beyond its ability to cut (speed and force). When I relaxed and let it do the cutting, it went much better, just my 2c.

/p

[Tony Wilkins]

I definitely know what you are talking about. There is that magical point where you aren't fighting the saw and it seems to be gliding through the wood -- thinking Jedi with light saber (Light Disston?)

[Charlie Stanford]

So I was out trying to saw a table leg out of walnut. I've always read that ripping is tough and found it true thus far. After several minutes (and about half way down the 28" leg) I was pretty well spent. I began to think that I'd be done with all four right now if I had a bandsaw or table saw or something. I went the hand tool route because with my PTSD I hate the sound of power tools and for some reason now have an aversion to the fast spinning blades of death. Those things still apply.

All that said, how do you handle rips?

TIA,
Tony

Don't press the saw it actually slows down the process. You grip it about with the same pressure as you'd use to shake the Queen's hand - not a whole lot. At the end of the day this will be as fast as it gets. Make sure the saw is sharp of course. Rub the teeth with a stub from a hard, white, household candle.

Sawing with the work in a vice is the least fatiguing when the workpiece will allow it - probably won't in the case of table legs but keep it in the back of your mind. Standing upright feels better to me. You can also rip overhand with the stock clamped to your bench. This is an upright dealio too.

[David Weaver]

Don't press the saw it actually slows down the process. You grip it about with the same pressure as you'd use to shake the Queen's hand - not a whole lot. At the end of the day this will be as fast as it gets. Make sure the saw is sharp of course. Rub the teeth with a stub from a hard, white, household candle.

Sawing with the work in a vice is the least fatiguing when the workpiece will allow it - probably won't in the case of table legs but keep it in the back of your mind. Standing upright feels better to me. You can also rip overhand with the stock clamped to your bench. This is an upright dealio too.

The upright deal is probably why sitting on your butt is also easier than leaning over the sawbench. You're sitting and your back is in an upright position, so there is no issue with using your back and another arm to hold up your bodyweight, only part of which is actually moving the saw, anyway.

[Charlie Stanford]

The upright deal is probably why sitting on your butt is also easier than leaning over the sawbench. You're sitting and your back is in an upright position, so there is no issue with using your back and another arm to hold up your bodyweight, only part of which is actually moving the saw, anyway.

My knees are a huge issue. I definitely can't use them to hold down a piece of wood and even when I could that position never felt comfortable or efficient.

[Steve Voigt]

The saw should be sharp; … Maybe an issue of it being a relatively high TPI (though I can't remember exactly what it is)

Well yeah, that would definitely make a huge difference.

For perspective: This summer, I split a white oak log into quarters and crosscut the pieces. I started with an 8 tpi saw because that's what was sharp (There's that sharpening thing again). First cut took forever, so I timed a couple. It was taking me 6-7 minutes per cut. Then I stopped and sharpened my 6 tpi saw. First cut took me two and a half minutes. You wouldn't think 2 tpi would make such a dramatic difference, but it did.

[ray hampton]

Well yeah, that would definitely make a huge difference.

For perspective: This summer, I split a white oak log into quarters and crosscut the pieces. I started with an 8 tpi saw because that's what was sharp (There's that sharpening thing again). First cut took forever, so I timed a couple. It was taking me 6-7 minutes per cut. Then I stopped and sharpened my 6 tpi saw. First cut took me two and a half minutes. You wouldn't think 2 tpi would make such a dramatic difference, but it did.

I use a handsaw to saw plywood for a couple of cuts but never count the tpi , using a circular saw would been unsafe because the plywood strip were too-narrow

[Mark Dorman]

My knees are a huge issue. I definitely can't use them to hold down a piece of wood and even when I could that position never felt comfortable or efficient.

I'm with you there Charlie.

[Tony Wilkins]

So what method/position do you using for sawing Charlie?

The big reason I gave up on Japanese saws was the bent over position to saw on the low saw ponies holding the stock with my feet.

[Charlie Stanford]

So what method/position do you using for sawing Charlie?

The big reason I gave up on Japanese saws was the bent over position to saw on the low saw ponies holding the stock with my feet.

I rip in a vise with a standard rip saw (short rips) or clamp the workpiece to the bench and use an ECE bow saw (longer rips and/or thicker wood).

I don't steady wood with feet or knees, that's for sure. Pure madness.

[Chris Griggs]

....clamp the workpiece to the bench and use an ECE bow saw (longer rips and/or thicker wood).

Same here more or less. I find myself doing this more and more for rips of all sizes. But I use a 5 1/2ppi D8 overhand not a bowsaw. I find it much easier than kneeling, though for xcuts I do kneel on my saw bench if the piece is too wide to efficiently xcut with a back saw at the bench hook.

[Tony Wilkins]

Couple of more questions:

How does the bow saw compare to the western handsaw in use?

I remember seeing Schwarz on The Woodwright's Shop and he talked about ripping at the bench. I don't have a tail vise so I'm not sure how to secure it. Anybody tried this method?

[Chris Griggs]

I don't use my tail vise when I rip at the bench. Just use some f-clamps or holdfasts to secure it to the bench.

[Jim Neeley]

Jeeze, David.. ;) I'd have thought you'd have a Rip Stop saw bench. You know the kind:

* Electronic sensor to detect contact with a metal blade,
* Saw Stop (tm) cartridge propells #12 boot into your booty!!
* No repeat offenses.

<j/k>, of course!!


:eek: :D :eek:

[Charlie Stanford]

Couple of more questions:

How does the bow saw compare to the western handsaw in use?

I remember seeing Schwarz on The Woodwright's Shop and he talked about ripping at the bench. I don't have a tail vise so I'm not sure how to secure it. Anybody tried this method?

A bow saw is a lot like Scotch - an acquired taste. I like Scotch. When you're using one you realize it's just a big bandsaw blade with you supplying the power. I had one and then went for a long time without one and now I have one again and am glad for it.

[Tony Wilkins]

A bow saw is a lot like Scotch - an acquired taste. I like Scotch. When you're using one you realize it's just a big bandsaw blade with you supplying the power. I had one and then went for a long time without one and now I have one again and am glad for it.

Single malt?

[Jim Matthews]

I use holdfasts on one of my sawbenches to handle long boards, without using my knees as a clamp.

Acharaya Kumarswami built his design using this, and it works well for me as well.
Bowsaws are faster, but the amount of set in most blades needs to be reduced.

[David Weaver]

Jeeze, David.. ;) I'd have thought you'd have a Rip Stop saw bench. You know the kind:

* Electronic sensor to detect contact with a metal blade,
* Saw Stop (tm) cartridge propells #12 boot into your booty!!
* No repeat offenses.

<j/k>, of course!!


:eek: :D :eek:

This picture doesn't really do it justice, it's even nastier than the picture looks. (It looks like I lied, it's a 2x12 and part of a 2x4).

266286

[Mike Holbrook]

Tage Frid use to swear that bowsaws are under appreciated in the US. I think there is a greater tradition involving their use in Europe. Tage made his rips with the work fastened to the bench, standing up, with a bowsaw. Tage claimed that one can use the entire body without getting as tired using a bowsaw. He also admitted that there is a little longer learning curve with a bowsaw. Tage used a bandsaw and tablesaw for processing full length lumber, rips and resawing.

I tried a poorly made bowsaw Highland Woodworking stocked back when Tage use to do classes there. It was not a user friendly tool for me. I recently purchased a 400mm Woodjoy bowsaw. The Woodjoy saw is well a joy to use, especially compared to the original saw I tried. The Japanese Turbo blades are a big help. I think one of the problems with bowsaws is, although there are some great saws available through hand tool specialty shops, there just are not many options when it comes to blades, other than the Japanese Turbo blades. I think this may be why Tage advocated hand filling bowsaw blades with rip teeth.

I opted for a bandsaw for long rips and resawing. I think many other hand tool fans use a bandsaw too.

[Adam Cruea]

First off, thanks for the service. Props for that.

Secondly, ripping is tedious. I hand ripped all the 5/4 hickory for my workbench top (6 feet long). It'll give you a workout. I clamped it to some crappy little IKEA stand/bench thing that put it about 40" off the ground. Thankfully, my Disston rip is a two-hander with a thumbhole.
Get some paraffin, candle wax, or canning wax and swipe it on the blade and teeth like was suggested. If you're rough cutting, you'll want a very low TPI count (my hand rip is 5 1/2 TPI). I would suggest getting a vintage Disston, Adkins, or Simonds rip with low TPI and give that a shot.

That said, a rip saw will never be as fast as a bandsaw. But a bandsaw doesn't give you a cardio workout and clear your mind like ripping by hand does. :)

[George Beck]

I think every woodworker should rip a piece of 2" maple with a hand saw because you will go right out and buy yourself a band saw. It's like going to Chucky Cheese on a Saturday, you go out and buy a dog.


George

[Charlie Stanford]

Single malt?

Not on a regular basis, but I'll splurge during the holidays.

[Chris Griggs]

Not on a regular basis, but I'll splurge during the holidays.

I love scotch! Charlie, we are finally seeing eye to eye.

I bet I can take a guess about your feelings on Canadian Whiskey?;). I hate the stuff.

Most the time scotch is too pricey so I stick with decent Irish whiskey (Good ole Jameson never lets me down) or good bourbon (Knob never fails me).

I always have 1 bottle of some type of whiskey/scotch/bourbon around.

My current bottle is a bottle of rye, just cause I had never had it and wanted to try it when I saw that folks are making it again..don't remember who makes it, but it sure is tasty.
.
And just to keep this post on topic.....ummmmmm.....well, I do rip mostly by hand but I sure do wish I had a bandsaw!

[Jonathan Wagner]

I think every woodworker should rip a piece of 2" maple with a hand saw because you will go right out and buy yourself a band saw.
I think every woodworker should do several rips. After 8 feet of it, I finally found that zen-like mindset of letting the saw do the work for me. I was really starting to question my sanity after the first six inches or so, though. Now it's a mindless, almost relaxing task; one I can do with a beer or bourbon nearby (something I would not tempt with a bandsaw). That said, even if you do end up with a bandsaw, at least you'll appreciate it more.


It's like going to Chucky Cheese on a Saturday, you go out and buy a dog.

No arguments there.

[Charlie Stanford]

I love scotch! Charlie, we are finally seeing eye to eye.

I bet I can take a guess about your feelings on Canadian Whiskey?;). I hate the stuff.

Most the time scotch is too pricey so I stick with decent Irish whiskey (Good ole Jameson never lets me down) or good bourbon (Knob never fails me).

I always have 1 bottle of some type of whiskey/scotch/bourbon around.

My current bottle is a bottle of rye, just cause I had never had it and wanted to try it when I saw that folks are making it again..don't remember who makes it, but it sure is tasty.
.
And just to keep this post on topic.....ummmmmm.....well, I do rip mostly by hand but I sure do wish I had a bandsaw!

Given the current heat and mosquito load here in Memphis (milder than last summer so far though) I'm drinking a lot of gin and tonic at the moment. I have a bottle of Jameson's on the bar but don't touch it until the weather cools off. Highs need to be in the mid-50s, tops, for me, for that. I always keep a bottle of Knob Creek around and sneek in an Old Fashioned from time to time even during the heat. I like it neat when the weather cools off.

Cheers!

[David Weaver]

I love scotch! Charlie, we are finally seeing eye to eye.

I bet I can take a guess about your feelings on Canadian Whiskey?;). I hate the stuff.

Most the time scotch is too pricey so I stick with decent Irish whiskey (Good ole Jameson never lets me down) or good bourbon (Knob never fails me).

I always have 1 bottle of some type of whiskey/scotch/bourbon around.

My current bottle is a bottle of rye, just cause I had never had it and wanted to try it when I saw that folks are making it again..don't remember who makes it, but it sure is tasty.
.
And just to keep this post on topic.....ummmmmm.....well, I do rip mostly by hand but I sure do wish I had a bandsaw!

Since you're in PA now, look for "mclellands islay" single malt if you don't mind single malts. One of our scottish friends had some of a bottle I got for free somewhere and said "uh....that's laphroaig, you got this for a tenner?" (he was a little off with conversion rates, it was $21 here). I gave him the bottle. It was still a lot cheaper than "real" laphroaig, though not as good according to the reviews I've seen. Of course, if you don't like laphroaig, then it doesn't do much good for you to find it for cheap in a bottle, not as long aged, and with a different label.

Tasted like creosote to me. Apparently that's good if you're actually scottish.

[Mike Holbrook]

Chris, the wife gave me this bottle of Blanton's Bourbon at Christmas, barely touched it. I'll save you a glass for when you stop by or if you hurry you might get a glass of the Redemption "High Rye" Bourbon the wife has. There is most of a bottle of Glenlivet, over half a bottle of Dewar's and a little Chevas that I inherited, if you like scotch. I can't face scotch for a couple reasons having to do with past experiences, not related to over drinking. I don't drink much of the hard stuff, I like a good dark beer: Left Hand Milk Stout, Murphy's or a good Tawny Port after dinner. Spirits can bring people together if used judiciously. Not a good idea to imbibe and use the bandsaw or table saw at the same time though.

[Tony Wilkins]

So alcohol is the fuel for hand tool woodworking ;). No wonder the early mills were such dangerous places

[Chris Griggs]

Since you're in PA now, look for "mclellands islay" single malt if you don't mind single malts. One of our scottish friends had some of a bottle I got for free somewhere and said "uh....that's laphroaig, you got this for a tenner?" (he was a little off with conversion rates, it was $21 here). I gave him the bottle. It was still a lot cheaper than "real" laphroaig, though not as good according to the reviews I've seen. Of course, if you don't like laphroaig, then it doesn't do much good for you to find it for cheap in a bottle, not as long aged, and with a different label.

Tasted like creosote to me. Apparently that's good if you're actually scottish.

Actually, I got a bottle of that once when I lived in Philly previously. Its the McClellands "Iles of Illay" I believe. The price was certainly right. Problem was it tasted like they were overcompensating for the fact that it was inexpensive. SUPER smokey. Don't get me wrong, when I drink scotch I like to taste the smokey peatyness (some nice scotches don't taste a lot different from basic Irish whiskey), but this stuff tasted like they added liquid smoke to it...I mean they must have loaded those barrels with obscene amounts of peat. I should try it again, though. That was a while ago and thats just how I remember it (at least compared to the Chivas Regal I had had before it). But generally, I liked sctoch less than, so maybe it just seemed extreme. I don't really know much about the stuff...I just know that sometimes I like to take a break from my Irish Whiskey's and bourbons and get something with a bit of smokeyness instead (just probably less than how I remember that on being)


Chris, the wife gave me this bottle of Blanton's Bourbon at Christmas, barely touched it. I'll save you a glass for when you stop by or if you hurry you might get a glass of the Redemption "High Rye" Bourbon the wife has. There is most of a bottle of Glenlivet, over half a bottle of Dewar's and a little Chevas that I inherited, if you like scotch. I can't face scotch for a couple reasons having to do with past experiences, not related to over drinking. I don't drink much of the hard stuff, I like a good dark beer: Left Hand Milk Stout, Murphy's or a good Tawny Port after dinner. Spirits can bring people together if used judiciously. Not a good idea to imbibe and use the bandsaw or table saw at the same time though.

Deal. Though now that I'm back above the Mason Dixie its not too likely you'll find me out that way. I like it all, the spirits, all kind of beers, and wine. I probably sound like a lush. I really only drink on the weekends...though I still do over-do it by a drink or two from time to time.

Yes, drinking and power tools not a good idea. Definitely avoid drinking and sharpening too DAMHIKT.

[David Weaver]

Yeah, it was bad. I don't drink scotch, so I don't know why I think it was bad. The scotsman (who has a couple of barrels of scotch for an investment and fancies the stuff in general) liked it for a cheap scotch, though. I just read the laphroaig reviews, and it looks like at 18 years, it's toned down and good. AT 10, it was described a lot like the islay stuff and the islay is 5, so it couldn't be ready at that age no matter what.

I don't mind the canadian whiskey, actually, but I rarely drink much of anything. 1700s immigrant german and swiss background (little bit of pa dutchy), too much stinginess and no tradition when it comes to alcohol...other than beer, and even that's off limits for some in the family. Much rather drink coffee than any of it.

[Pedro Reyes]

Since you're in PA now, look for "mclellands islay" single malt if you don't mind single malts. ...

Islay scotch can have a weird tasty (that peaty smoky taste some dislike), I like it but not over the Speyside distilleries. Balvenie is my favorite, but it is very expensive, block plane expensive.

/p

[Tom Vanzant]

David, a quick survey shows Gentleman Jack (Daniels), Macallan Single Malt, Crown Royal, and Jameson on hand... consumption choice by season/temp. Shiner Boch and Yuengling when it's hot, and a four-cup pot of dark roast and chickory every morning. When in the shop, it's coffee or water. Alcohol just makes nicks and cuts bleed more freely.

[David Weaver]

You can get yuengling in Texas? It's the only beer I buy, partly because I don't like to spend money on beer and it is a decent tasting anytime beer that appeals to my german tastebuds. I sometimes drink one after a physical shop session, they're extra lovely when you're pooped and overheated.

Former college roommate over the border in ohio couldn't get yuengling back in the early 2000s, and I had to take a couple of cases on every visit. He switched jobs and is now a PHD student at drexel as part of a mid life crisis, which solves the availability problem, but one never knows if that may have just created another problem (thinking that you need something more sophisticated to go with the phd - catchy-named snooty beers rub me and my pocket the wrong way, thus the supposition)

[Chris Griggs]

Jameson to me is what Shapton Pro is to David W. Sure I like to try a lot of other things, things that are often newer, or older, or better, or more exotic, or more expensive, but I always go back to Jameson and it never disappoints. It was the whiskey that got me liking whiskys and the first one I ever drank with any regularity. Always tasty!

[Chris Griggs]

Alcohol just makes nicks and cuts bleed more freely.

haha. Ain't that the truth. Plus you don't feel them as badly.

[Tom Vanzant]

No Yuengling in Texas, but daughter and SIL are in SC at the southern edge of distribution. They keep us in Yueng, we keep then in Shiner.

[David Weaver]

That reminds me, chris, my former roommate is at drexel for decision sciences (as a phd candidate). You guys don't work with those propellerheads, do you?

[Chris Griggs]

No Yuengling in Texas, but daughter and SIL are in SC at the southern edge of distribution. They keep us in Yueng, we keep then in Shiner.

Tom you should try Southern Start Brewing Company (brewed in Texas). They are, I believe, a micro brewery, but their beer comes in cans. Anyway, its great stuff. I usually like fairly strong dark or IPA beers, but they make a nice mellow Blonde that is as good as beer gets...light an color but with a good solid maltiness to it.

There blond was our staple when my wife and I lived in NOLA...we can't get it up here.

[Chris Griggs]

That reminds me, chris, my former roommate is at drexel for decision sciences (as a phd candidate). You guys don't work with those propellerheads, do you?

The program in the Business school? My group works with a data mining/stats professor in the business school who might have something to do with that program. Very cool stuff....still haven't quite gotten the hang of it yet (data mining that it).

My office is right across the street from the Business school and I audited a data mining course in it this past spring. We may very well have unknowingly crossed paths.

[David Weaver]

The program in the Business school? My group works with a data mining/stats professor in the business school who might have something to do with that program. Very cool stuff....still haven't quite gotten the hang of it yet (data mining that it).

My office is right across the street from the Business school and I audited a data mining course in it this past spring. We may very well have unknowingly crossed paths.

I know nothing about drexel other than that for some reason they're in philadelphia and they have some medical school facilities here in pittsburgh. (so I don't know what school it is)

[Chris Griggs]

I know nothing about drexel other than that for some reason they're in philadelphia and they have some medical school facilities here in pittsburgh. (so I don't know what school it is)

I just looked up. It is indeed the business school. I didn't realize we had stuff in pittsburg, but we have random little satellites all over PA, so I'm not really surprised to here that.

[Tom Vanzant]

Chris, Southern Star is an hour up I45 at Conroe, but available at Specs just 5-7 min away. I feel a short drive coming on... Thanks for the tip.

[Mike Olson]

The saw should be sharp; it's the Wenzloff from the first thread and this is the first time I've used it. Maybe an issue of it being a relatively high TPI (though I can't remember exactly what it is)? Work holding is probably not optimal. I'm using a B&D workmate because I'm trying to wait until after we move in a few months to avoid the movers destroying it.

I just looked up that post of yours. Your ripping that much with a panel saw? wow...

I actually enjoy ripping wood but I use a Disston #7 3ppi giant rip saw that you can easily use both hands with it. I keep my panel saw for trimming 3/4" boards. Granted with the big rip saw I do have to plane off about 1/8" as there is always a little tear out on the bottom side.

[Tony Wilkins]

I just looked up that post of yours. Your ripping that much with a panel saw? wow...

I actually enjoy ripping wood but I use a Disston #7 3ppi giant rip saw that you can easily use both hands with it. I keep my panel saw for trimming 3/4" boards. Granted with the big rip saw I do have to plane off about 1/8" as there is always a little tear out on the bottom side.

Only due to the fact that my D8 Thumbhole 5 1/2 TPI rip has gotten dull and I don't have a good saw sharpening set up.

[Tony Wilkins]

Another ripping session today. Went pretty well. Committed to using the Disston D8 and used my left hand with the Thumb hole. Really concentrated on finding the Zen of getting out of the way of the saw; found it pretty well and it was actually pretty enjoyable. Definitely need to get it sharpened; I'm thinking of sending it up to get Mike Harrell so it will be set up with all the little details that I just don't know about.