Vintage miter boxes [Archive] - Sawmill Creek Woodworking Community

Mike Holbrook

07-11-2013, 11:58 AM

It seems to me that this topic deserves more "air time". Maybe it is just me but I find tons of info. on making sawing jigs for a bench or making sawbenches but very little discussion of miter boxes. Admittedly I am coming from more of a construction orientation, where one lives and dies by the compound miter saw still...

I restored a Millers Falls/Langdon 74C, which I am quite fond of. I find it to be more accurate than my electron eater and even easier to use. I am thinking I will do the majority of my crosscuts using this box and I have a hard time understanding why most hand tool users would not get major usage from one of these saws. I am in the process of building table(s) to use this saw and my Steel City planer on. I am also in the market for a lighter, faster cutting saw than the Disston 26" (actual tooth length), 11 ppi saw that came with it. I have searched long and hard for a smaller miter box but I am giving up on finding one. I think I have decided my 74C will serve most of my needs better anyway if I find a better lighter saw for it.

My main concern, now that I have the box fully restored, painted...is the saw. It seems to me that a saw with a thinner plate and a little less size and weight might serve my general needs better. I am wondering what tooth count and size saws others use and find serviceable?

Mel Fulks

07-11-2013, 12:26 PM

I ve always been interested in mitre boxes and had to use them before shops went to electric chop saws etc. They turn up at yard sales and don't bring much. With the interest here in making saws ,has anyone here made 2 backsaws from one of the 30 inch mitre box saws?

David Weaver

07-11-2013, 12:49 PM

(re: making other backsaws) Super heavy thick plates!

I think a lot of people end up not using them (I have one that I end up not using a lot) because your sawing stroke is limited in those saws and if you are marking your cuts all of the way around, you don't need the accuracy and you'll want to do something to finish the end if it's exposed, anyway.

A chop saw is a lot more practical, but certainly doesn't allow for much nostalgia.

I don't know what happened to all of the boxes, but my dad seems to be able to find saws between probably 26 and 30 inches at the flea market he goes to, and he's never paid more than $3. They are often the only type of old saw that I've seen that's actually sharp or close to it. I mooched a really nice simonds saw off of him for my box for $3 a couple of years ago, as he is not a fine woodworker, and anything in his shop will either be covered with rust or paint pretty quickly.

Mike - you need the saws the way they're designed for two reasons:
1) you need the thickness for rigidity, and also to fit in the guides snugly
2) you need the weight because you will not be able to bear down on the cut, the weight of the saw will have to do the work. a lighter saw will not do.

Any thickness the plate has will not be detrimental to the speed of the cut because it will come with commensurate weight. I've found that my thicker 16" backsaw will cut faster than a similar thinner 14" saw that I have, pretty much just because the plate and spine are heavier on it.

Andrae Covington

07-11-2013, 1:27 PM

I use my miter box quite a bit. I also have a compound miter saw and I still use that sometimes as well. The electric saw leaves a cleaner edge, especially on larger pieces that would be too big for me to use my shooting board (I use my LV smoothing plane, so there are practical limits). On smaller pieces, I prefer the miter box as it's quiet and ends up being faster compared to pulling the compound miter saw out, hooking up the hose, turning on the shopvac, getting all geared up with goggles, mask, earmuffs...

I think David is right about the sawplate thickness and the overall weight. All you have to do is push the saw back and forth, the weight and rigidity keeps it plowing straight down through the cut. As for tooth count, 11 ppi is standard for any miter box saw I've seen. I think if it's not going fast enough for you, then you'd be better off crosscutting freehand with a handsaw at, say, 9 ppi. The somewhat larger teeth, and the longer effective stroke would speed up the work. I also use this method... just depends on what I'm cutting and what the end result needs to be.

A couple other random notes:

Before buying a miter box (Millers Falls 74C), I bought a Simonds 24 x 4 saw and made a wooden crosscut box. The saw is about 1915-1920 vintage, with a nice dark apple handle that looks much better than the 1950's vintage Disston that came with the 74C (but the Disston is 28 x 5, so a little longer stroke). At one point, I needed to resharpen the Disston, so I thought I would temporarily use the Simonds in the 74C until I got around to it. But the Simonds would not fit through the slots in the saw guides. If you look closely, the slots get wider towards the bottom, to accommodate the set teeth. But the teeth on the shorter Simonds saw were too high and would not go through the narrower part of the slots.

The 74C and similar have red metal tables with little sharp nibs to catch the workpiece and hold it in place. That's fine for construction work, but it tends to do bad things to my nicely-planed pieces. I need to make an auxiliary table. I've also found that the flared opening between the tables, which allows the saw to pivot for miter angles, can cause thinner workpieces to sag where they are unsupported next to the saw. To finally break through the bottom, I have to lift the workpiece up with my thumb as I make the last couple strokes. So I think I will make thin wooden tables with 90° ends at the saw, since most of the time I'm only making straight crosscuts.

Mel Fulks

07-11-2013, 2:19 PM

David, the plate thickness never occurred to me .Guess its because I don't sharpen them,tried a long time ago and all the teeth would run together.Thanks. We've always had a good saw shop in town .Once when I bought a shop worn saw from him he insisted on sharpening it at no extra charge.

David Weaver

07-11-2013, 2:51 PM

Probably the biggest pain in the butt to sharpen in the whole shop -there's a million little teeth on them, and you only use a part of them because of the way the saw fits in the box. But you have to joint them all and at least file the front and the back ones into something halfway respectable. I'm inclined to mark my saw the next time where the front and back of the cut stops on some typical piece of wood and just file the other teeth rip with high rake. It'll make no practical difference but it'll sure cut down on the sharpening time!

I traded my dad for another saw before he told me how much he paid. He had a long saw (28x5) that he tried to use to cut laminate flooring, and I offered to sharpen it in exchange for another miter saw. He was OK with that. I'll bet it took an hour or more to sharpen it and remove the damage he made, and I could've just given him 3 bucks.

Mike Holbrook

07-12-2013, 1:51 AM

Well burst my bubble! I was dreaming of something more like my Gramercy sash saw in a miter box. There is this smaller MF miter box I see around fairly often that always commands prices I have not been willing to pay. I was trying to get both in one saw, ok maybe I was dreaming.

I actually have been reasonably happy with the speed of cut with the saw I have. I touched the teeth up a little and like David mentions those teeth do seem to go on & on & on.....Maybe I will just look for a second similar saw at auction. I was surprised to hear Andrea's comment about the limited ability of the slots in the miter box. I had not actually tried other saws in mine since I had nothing close in size. Since I restored my saw, the table has a fresh thick coat of enamel on it which has diminished the tendency of the teeth to slice into work pieces.

Derek Cohen

07-12-2013, 5:23 AM

.... [snip] ..
.
I think David is right about the sawplate thickness and the overall weight. All you have to do is push the saw back and forth, the weight and rigidity keeps it plowing straight down through the cut. As for tooth count, 11 ppi is standard for any miter box saw I've seen. I think if it's not going fast enough for you, then you'd be better off crosscutting freehand with a handsaw at, say, 9 ppi. The somewhat larger teeth, and the longer effective stroke would speed up the work. I also use this method... just depends on what I'm cutting and what the end result needs to be.

A couple other random notes:

Before buying a miter box (Millers Falls 74C), I bought a Simonds 24 x 4 saw and made a wooden crosscut box. The saw is about 1915-1920 vintage, with a nice dark apple handle that looks much better than the 1950's vintage Disston that came with the 74C (but the Disston is 28 x 5, so a little longer stroke). At one point, I needed to resharpen the Disston, so I thought I would temporarily use the Simonds in the 74C until I got around to it. But the Simonds would not fit through the slots in the saw guides. If you look closely, the slots get wider towards the bottom, to accommodate the set teeth. But the teeth on the shorter Simonds saw were too high and would not go through the narrower part of the slots.

A while back I purchased a MF 74C to go with a Disston with a 26"x 4" plate. They did not work together, for all the reasons outlined by Andrae. The #74C must have a minimum of 5" plate depth. Fortunately I was able to find a very good Disston-made-for-the-74C with a 5 1/2" depth. Sharpened, the combination is sublime.

Most recent use: I needed to saw the stretcher of the base of the kist I am building. The idea was to create a flow of the grain from the corners at the front through the drawer front, and to the other corner. A wide saw kerf (with a table saw) could reduce the flow. If sawn off square with a hand saw, shooting it square would have the same effect. The thin kerf of a mitrebox saw plus the squareness of the cut from the mitrebox, itself, was the solution. Minimal cleaning up from a perfectly square cut.

Anyone wishing to use a saw plate with less depth must either seek out a #74A or B, or shorten the posts that hold the saw (this controls the height of the plate permissible). The latter is very doable, but it does alter a vintage tool. [EDIT: Another solution may be to raise the mitrebox up on blocks. This would allow the saw guide posts to drop below the base of the mitrebox. .... mmmm ... that should fix the problem ... I'll have to wait for my return to Perth to find out ..]

I'd also like one of the smaller boxes, but am not willing to spend in the region of $400. It is an interesting idea to build one. Perhaps ....

Regards from Cape Town

Derek

Chris Hachet

07-12-2013, 10:05 AM

Bill McDermott

07-12-2013, 10:17 AM

If anyone is seriously interested in building a miter box, look at what Chicago Furniture maker Jeff Miller has designed. I gave it a test drive. It delivers fantastic results. Search for "Jeff Miller Magic Tenoning Jig". Although not a miter box per se, there are some directly applicable ideas here that may accelerate and improve a home made box. Note, he happens to use the L-N Thin Plate Tenon Saw with this jig.

Mike Holbrook

07-12-2013, 10:53 AM

Hand Tool Man Derek always seems to have the "straight skinny" on just about any tool, thanks Derek for the detailed explanation of the saw limits for the 74C. I will check out "Jeff Millers Magic Tenoning Jig Bill, also great info. Probably by the time I find the info. on it Derek will have made one though ;-)

I am working on place(s) to mount my saw today. I have this old metal desk that belonged to my granddad that I have been restoring. I finally got the old metal composite top off, revealing a metal frame I can attach a wooden top too. This desk may be too big at around 33 x 46" though. I am thinking it might work better attached to my Adjust A Bench, which I am also working on today. Yes it's worktable/bench day. Anyone care to reveal what they use to steady their miter saw?

Chris I just watched Ebay for a few months until I found a good saw at a reasonable price 50-$75 I believe:

266318

I did clean it up and paint it.

Derek Cohen

07-12-2013, 12:31 PM

For those unfamiliar wih the MF 74C, here is the ACME version I have - about 1920/30? This had a fair amount of surface rust. The saw was very good but tarmished and grimy. I completed a gentle restoration on both ...

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/saws/Millers%20Falls%20Mitre%20box%20and%20saw/6.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/saws/Millers%20Falls%20Mitre%20box%20and%20saw/9.jpg

Regards from Cape Town

Derek

Mel Fulks

07-12-2013, 12:39 PM

Derek ,nice job. That is a good model,my favorite ,unfortunately so many of them have been dropped and welded.

Andrae Covington

07-12-2013, 1:16 PM

A while back I purchased a MF 74C to go with a Disston with a 26"x 4" plate. They did not work together, for all the reasons outlined by Andrae. The #74C must have a minimum of 5" plate depth...

I figured someone else had run into this issue.

...Anyone care to reveal what they use to steady their miter saw?

I mounted mine to a piece of plywood, with an extra piece to form a lip... basically just like a bench hook. Of course I have to move it off the bench when I want to do other things, so it doesn't have a dedicated place to live.

266324

I would like to know where anyone is finding decent vintage miter boxes for any kind of reasonable money. The only ones I see are high priced on Ebay...

...Chris I just watched Ebay for a few months until I found a good saw at a reasonable price 50-$75 I believe:

266318

I did clean it up and paint it.

I waited a long, long time, because I didn't want to pay so much either. Hence the shopmade wooden miter box I mentioned in an earlier post. It worked, but not nearly as nice as the real deal. Eventually I held my nose and bought one on ebay. I paid more than Mike did, but not $300-$500 :eek: as some I've seen. You might get lucky and find one locally for a good price (like this thread (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?205319-Miller-Falls-Miter-box-760)). Being able to check it all out in person and make sure it's all there and functional would be a plus. And shipping one of these little monsters is expensive. I checked local craigslist for a long time, but the occasional ones that showed up looked like they had been constructed entirely of cor-ten, and at nearly ebay prices to boot.

Mike Holbrook

07-12-2013, 1:29 PM

Great idea for a base for your saw Andrae! I may have to follow your lead on that one. A bench hook base why didn't I think of that? Loving the parade of saw pictures too. Dang if Derek didn't one up us by owning the model with the most options and cool factor!

Tim Null

07-13-2013, 12:17 AM

I bought a Stanley 150 and then ordered a miter saw from Bad Axe. Wow, works great. I recently made two custom poker tables. Almost all of the molding needed to be cut at a 22.5 degree angle. I cut all of this on the miter box. The design of this box lets you use almost all of the saws length. And it was accurate. I did touch up some edges using my Evenfall shooting board. I could dial in the angle to be slightly less or more than 22.5 degrees when necessary to make the pieces fit. This was not something I could do with a powered tool. Mark has a nice little piece on his site about this miter box. For small pieces like molding, etc it is just the ticket. And the Bad Axe saw is amazing.

Charlie Stanford

07-13-2013, 8:47 AM

David Barnett

07-13-2013, 9:42 AM

Ulmia Miter Box with plenty of accoutrements, FWIW:

http://www.pecktool.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=132

Having used Nobex, Jorgenson and at least three other frame saw miter boxes, I can attest that the Ulmia was the best with Nobex being a distant but acceptable second—I truly didn't like the Jorgenson I tried but maybe it's better now. The Nobex, in spite of its generous depth capacity, seemed more suited to cutting interior architectural mouldings and picture frame stock—I've seen a few in framing shops. The others fell far short in my experience. The Ulmia works very well but is spendy.

Long ago, just after I bought a tablesaw, in part to improve my mitering situation, Trevor Robinson, from the oldtools list who lived across the CT River from Northampton in Amherst—called and said he had something for me. The next day he showed up with a #358 Stanley miter box and big Disston backsaw, the hold-down clamps, rods, extensions, everything——and said "it's yours for $25 if you want it." I wanted it.

For accurate small work and one offs, it's still my go-to. Heavy, yes, with a saw plate nowhere as thin as a frame saw—nothing flimsy about it—but holds a setting, saws dead-on straight and is a pleasure to use even if it is slower.

Mike Holbrook

07-13-2013, 10:29 AM

Wow Charlie that is an expensive saw, not sure why/how it is better than a Nobex? Nice link to that Bad Axe link Tim, that is an interesting alternative and certainly provides a more compact saw.

Mike Holbrook

07-13-2013, 10:39 AM

Looks like David answered my question about Nobex while I was typing. Tim inspired me with his info. on the Stanley 150 as an excellent compact alternative with modern saws available to work in the box. I just got a decent deal on a Stanley 150 that I found on auction.

The saw that comes with the miter box I bought does not look great but Bad Axe has a saw designed for the box. Bad Axe even has a copy of the original Stanley 150 manual available for down loading. According to Stanley quite a few saws will work with the 150. The blade guide does not require a saw with a back so this miter box should even work with some hand saws. The other big advantage according to Bad Axe's testing, this miter box gets usage of 85% of a saw plates teeth vs 67% for the double post miter boxes. I will make a bench hook, like Andrea and Bad Axe have demonstrated, to mount the miter box on once I have restored and painted it.

David Barnett

07-13-2013, 11:08 AM

Looks like David answered my question about Nobex while I was typing.

Mike, the Nobex I bought, which was not their top of the line, was not altogether unusable but did suffer from a couple problems. The first was slightly inaccurate detents/settings for anything other than 90°—not so much as to render it worthless—but enough to vex me if I needed to match carved or other figural elements. I'd want a Lion trimmer if it was my sole miter saw, as I was unwilling to perform compensatory sawing gymnastics—complementary angles and otherwise—to get a tight fit. Of course, shooting the miter would also work.

The other drawback was the ease one could deflect the cut if one's technique was not light-handed and wholly unbiased. With practice and unwavering focus I could learn to make the Nobex work reasonably well and if I wasn't so terribly pernickety, it might suffice. Requirements are apt to differ and it's not a bad saw—rather it just has its quirks, and for me, these didn't fit my style or needs. Even with the #358 I'll still often shoot my miters.

Mike Holbrook

07-13-2013, 11:43 AM

David I actually have some experience with Nobex as well, although my experience is with the bottom of the line saw. I bought one from Highland Woodworking, a return, almost a give away. My experience matches yours. I have only used it a few times as I find it necessary to be very careful starting the blade. The blade that came with mine cuts slow too. There is just entirely too much play in the aligning hardware for my taste.

I am hoping the Stanley 150 will work much better. Tim's post and the information on Bad Axe seems to suggest that the 150 can cut very accurately. I never gave saws like the 150 consideration before because I was afraid their alignment hardware would be too loose for my taste like the Nobex I have. I believe one could also make the argument that it is easy to fine tune a less than perfect cut with a shooting board. It seems to me the point of a miter box has largely to do with accuracy, or we might as well use a bench hook.

Derek Cohen

07-13-2013, 11:59 AM

I believe one could also make the argument that it is easy to fine tune a less than perfect cut with a shooting board. It just seems to me though that the point of a miter box has largely to do with accuracy, or we might as well use a bench hook

Exactly, Mike. That is what I was referring to earlier.

I do agree that the big mitre boxes - MF and Stanley - are overkill for many of the tasks we need them to do. For example, they could be killer saws on tenon shoulders (since you can set a depth stop for both depth and length), but are far too cumbersome for this task. I'd love a small box for small moldings. The MF 74 and Stanley 346 (which I once had) dwarf the work and use saws with wide plates.

Regards from Cape Town

Derek

Gary Herrmann

07-13-2013, 1:58 PM

Mike & Derek, I have the same model Langdon Acme. I use it for all my smaller cross cuts. I can't remember the last time I turned on my Bosch miter saw. Hmm.

I've got a 26" Disston on mine that has about 4.75" of plate. So far, no problems at all.

I'd also like to find a smaller one to permanently mount somewhere in the shop.

Mike Holbrook

07-13-2013, 10:27 PM

Assuming the Stanley 150 turns out to work well, I think I will use it in my hand tool shop, so I can work at night without waking up the wife & picky young adults I live with. I may put the MF 74C in my business building where I am constantly needing to cut a few boards for repairs or small projects. The electric compound miter saw & saw stand are too big to leave set up all the time. The 74C works great for cutting a few: 2x4's, 1x4, 2x2, PVC, CPVC, rawhide dog chews....and I can toss it up on a table, porch rail...and be done before I can drag the big boy out.

Peter Pedisich

07-13-2013, 10:51 PM

Charlie, looks like I got a deal on my Ulmia 352! ...got it from ebay for $129! And a Stanley 358 with a saw sharpened by Daryl Weir. The Stanley cuts perfectly, not sure how many tpi - I'll check tomorrow. -pete

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-VmWmtf5t9KA/Ua_xsNDgPpI/AAAAAAAACKM/RUOEOmnqFjk/s800/IMG_8346.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-950hLuT2IYw/T5NbP27o6sI/AAAAAAAABs0/lALMqIxYmFI/s800/IMG_6174.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-f-dGGExwZWU/T5NbW1wZ7VI/AAAAAAAABs0/H7kA7777Tp8/s800/IMG_6175.JPG

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-QS_9RdotGuM/T5NbxWyVWII/AAAAAAAACLM/fI4sHpuRqE4/s800/IMG_6188.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-tcFZu1oQQj8/T5N4mnZR_mI/AAAAAAAABs0/llUfv_z1S7Y/s800/IMG_6209.JPG

Kees Heiden

07-14-2013, 5:02 AM

Very nice Ulmia Peter (The Stanley looks great too)! Is the blade resharpenable? Mine came with several blades with hardened teeth, which were all too far worn out and had way too much set. It also had one blade with normal teeth I could sharpen. I had to stone one side until it tracked straight, and now it is a joy to use. You can also buy a Japanese style blade for this saw, which seems to be very good, allthough some people think it is too agressive.

But I must say I don't use it much yet. It is a big machine, taking up a lot of real estate. So I don't know if I will keep it. If I would work with moldings, I'm sure I would apreciate it more.

Here's a short video of using the saw to cut a piece of hard maple.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zz2ErkFvUCQ

Jim Matthews

07-14-2013, 5:13 PM

I score the cut all the way around, to reduce chipping on the exit of the cut.
I'll pare a small relief as well, if the stock is prone to splintering (Sapele? - I'm talking about YOU.)

Many of the pieces I'm cutting on my Langdon are so small, I can't plane them afterwards.
I clamp both two the rear fence, and clamp on a stop block as I'm a hamfist, and the work wanders if it's not held down.

These saws are like any other fine-toothed saw, bearing down doesn't make it cut faster or better.

I like the surety of a fixed workpiece that I move the tool over.

I adopted Mr. Cohen's method of fixing the works to my bench.
I don't have a permanent base attached, I put screws through the feet into my bench for each use.

It's MUCH easier to use a little higher than waist height - so I can clearly see what's happening.

Greg Works

07-15-2013, 4:56 PM

I bought a nice old Stanley miter box for $2 at a local auction. There is a time investment. I go for fun and enjoy the experience so it's not a hassle for me. Many auction sites have online photos so you can sometimes get an idea of what is offered - my experience is that there is way more stuff than gets photographed.

Peter Pedisich

07-15-2013, 4:59 PM

On ebay right now there is an Ulmia 352 (with a high reserve IMHO) if anyone is interested. It's not mine - I'm keeping it!

Mike Holbrook

07-16-2013, 11:53 AM

I wonder if Tim or anyone else with the Stanley 150, would care to comment on what saws they have tried using in their miter box? Has anyone actually tried using a panel saw or maybe a half back in this box? I understand that saws with backs that do not work in two post miter boxes should work in the 150. I hope this means that many of the larger saws made by Bad Axe or Ron B will work in it? I am also wondering about the size of the box. My MF 74C has a 19" long heavy metal box. The box on the S 150 appears to be more like the 12- 16 " boxes on the smaller MF miter boxes.

My new bench will have a Veritas QR Tail vise on it. I am thinking of mounting the 150 on a bench hook with a tab (made to the thickness of the Tail Vise jaw) which the tail vise can clamp to, holding the jig in place at the edge of my bench. Should be very fast to set up and super sturdy.

Tim Null

07-19-2013, 8:38 PM

Many of the cuts I made withe the Bad Axe and Stanley 150 combo were placed on the table straight from the saw. Fine tuning of a few were done with a shooting board. This combo is very accurate fight from the saw. I found that a light touch especially at the start, keeps the saw aligned correctly.

Richard Kee

07-21-2013, 10:26 AM

steven c newman

07-21-2013, 11:32 AM

This "portable" one?266878266879266880have since found a better saw for it..

Bill Fleming

07-21-2013, 4:56 PM

I would like to know where anyone is finding decent vintage miter boxes for any kind of reasonable money. The only ones I see are high priced on Ebay. Perhaps we could have a sticky in this forum or something about them....I find myself rarely using my chop saw and doing most of my cutting by hand any more, so it would be a huge forward push to my woodworking to find one. Good info here on the weight of the saw and so forth... THANKS to you guys for the time to post this stuff!

Chris - I know how you feel, I started my quest about 24 months ago - in my case I didn't do a lot of crawling the antique stores, etc. but rather just kinda kept a watch on e-bay. First I found a very nice MF but that box has a couple of odd thread sizes and it had a missing part - Mark Baldwin on this forum gave me a part and I had to buy another box at a very reasonable price to get the rest. The crazy fellow on e-bay packed very poorly so I paid only for part value when it arrived damaged - to "play forward" Mark's generosity I will will give the parts I don't use to anyone wanting them all. I also found a nice Stanley 150 on e-bay for a fair price. What I have found is that as the hand tool interest increases, these tools are demanding a higher price. It is easy to dream of a $35 Stanley 150 with a nice BadAxe saw but if you plan to use that kind of saw then it shouldn't be unreasonable to pay $100 to $150 for a nice box that is complete. Of course cheaper is better and if you can re-hab a saw that is great.

Anyway I guess my point is keep looking and when you find one move on it. In my case I wanted to put it to work and not make a hobby of the re-hab - but I can appreciate the joy of doing that as well.

Mike Holbrook

07-22-2013, 10:26 AM

You make a good point Bill. I bought what looked like a bargain 150 in good shape that just needed some rehab. I am still working on a gentle restore, trying to figure out how well the one I have works. At the moment it looks like a screw needs to be loosened and tightened down in order to change the miter settings.

It seems, if the screw on my 150 is left loose enough to move between settings the entire assembly the saw hangs in is loose enough to move around. The one large screw holds the saw assembly to the box. Maybe the box I have is old or has a screw in it that a past owner replaced the original mechanism with....The Stanley 150 manual does not mention the screw or show it in any pictures which would seem odd if it is an integral part of adjusting the saw for use.

Peter Pedisich

08-31-2013, 6:00 PM

I saw this Ulmia 354 and got it to complement my 352, in pretty good shape, not sure of the age.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-hVdRpxQMF0c/UiJkVC2TZVI/AAAAAAAACaE/vMzCUWH1NXE/s640/IMG_0601.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-DQLHEZtw-Mk/UiJkVYPIYtI/AAAAAAAACaM/WS8sjdIEDQw/s640/IMG_0603.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ssM7sl3dqeo/UiJkX1UBahI/AAAAAAAACag/nvxFZf6u7YE/s640/IMG_0607.JPG

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-j3FGUL9Oxc8/UiJkYLl3JII/AAAAAAAACak/QtoxjVvlra0/s640/IMG_0608.JPG

Peter Pedisich

08-31-2013, 6:00 PM

by the way - it's HEAVY.

Mike Holbrook

09-01-2013, 10:06 AM

Looks like a very nice saw Peter. I have been struggling trying to work an old twisted, cupped piece of white oak to make a new cutting surface for the newer Stanley 150 I got at auction. Turns out the first saw was missing a few parts but the newer one even has the little piece used to make repeat cuts at the same length. Now that I have a working saw with all the parts I can tell what needs to be replaced on the older saw too. I have also been flattening the two surfaces the saw blade slides between as they looked quite rough and I was afraid they might wear on the saw blade. I may even attach something to the metal that the saw will slide easier against. Once I get the new surface done and installed I will post a picture.

Richard Kee

08-23-2016, 10:45 PM

I scored a small Goodell Pratt 1265 miter box off the auction site recently. It's 12" wide and takes a 16" saw with 2 1/2" under the spline - a saw that I'm having great difficulty finding.

Phil Mueller

08-24-2016, 12:09 AM

I find my miter saw cuts very clean, but very slow. I sharpened it to what I read was recommended; 25 degree rake, 30 degree fleam. I like the clean cut, but I'm considering reshaping the teeth to something more aggressive, or getting a second saw and sharpen that more aggressive. I'd be interested in hearing what angles others use for their miter saws.

steven c newman

08-24-2016, 12:44 AM

Used this one tonight...
342874
But, I had to fix two items, first. The saw was too big. The guides were set too wide.
342879
342875
Got out my 14" No.4 backsaw ( 9ppi, filed rip) loosened that screw. clamped the guides to the saw's plate, and tightened the screw back down.
342876
Does a decent enough job.

The "Main" mitrebox in the shop is a Stanley358. 5" x 28" saw..
342877
It was just too big for the cuts needed tonight.
Had this one for a while, but decided I had too many in the shop, so it got sold
342878
Stanley No. 150

Tony Zaffuto

08-24-2016, 6:43 AM

Derek Cohen

08-24-2016, 7:34 AM

I scored a small Goodell Pratt 1265 miter box off the auction site recently. It's 12" wide and takes a 16" saw with 2 1/2" under the spline - a saw that I'm having great difficulty finding.

Hi Richard

I made my own mitre saw to fit this Millers Falls #15 1/2 mitre box I restored (http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolRestorations/MFMitreboxRebuild.html).

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolRestorations/MFMitreboxRebuild_html_m7c4cc0bd.jpg

The saw is the same dimensions as the one you are looking for. Filed 13 tpi crosscut in a plate 16" x 2 1/2". The plate was custom made by Blackburn Tools (Isaac Smith).

Regards from Perth

Derek

Mike Holbrook

08-24-2016, 9:04 AM

Derek that must be a great little miter saw. I was looking for one for years, never could find one, so I bought the Stanley 150. I wish you would stop posting pictures of it because I always think if I shopped that auctions site just a little longer....

Ron Bontz made a 20" saw for mine and it cuts like a dream. I believe Ron will sell the parts to make a saw or kits now. I have a half back I made from a Wenzloff kit but it looks like Mike stopped making kits. Tools for Working wood sells a kit for their 14" sash saw. It looks like Ron Bontz offers: 10,12, 14, 16 & 18 inch saw kits and lots of options for parts at reasonable prices too.

I like my miter saw so well I reworked an extra kitchen cabinet, placing a Festool table top on it, and a folding/drop leaf on the side for stacking wood on:

342882

342883

george wilson

08-24-2016, 9:43 AM

What a beautiful saw,Derek!!!! Great handle!

The only miter box saw I have is a Jorgenson with a wire tensioned blade,similar to the Ulmia type saws shown in posts above. I had to re make all of the quarter round moldings in the entire house when we bought this 1949 house. They were all removed back in the 70's,apparently(because they also sawed the doors 1 1/2" shorter when they installed shag carpeting.) I really think that they used a chain saw for shortening the doors,so horribly rough were they cut. Ended up replacing all the doors in the house! Getting the old paint off turned out to be much too much trouble.

The miter box worked quite accurately,and soon the house was refitted with quarter round moldings.

I used a hand powered miter saw because I was trying to not raise a lot of dust all over the house.

The miter saw outfit was purchased NOS for a fraction of the retail price where I have been buying used machinery and tooling for many years. The little teeth were filed too aggressive,and the saw grabbed a lot. I was hoping that with use the teeth would dull just a bit and get less grabby. They never did,using the soft wood I was using. I had no shop set up at the time to re configure the saw teeth,nor did I want to! Too many other renovations to do. As David mentioned,miter saw teeth are quite small,and very numerous. All my shop was in boxes as we were moving into the house.

Pete Taran

08-24-2016, 11:55 AM

25 degree rake? Yikes! All the mitre saws I have seen have the standard 12-15 rake angle like any normal crosscut. I wonder if this is an example of theory and reality colliding? Technically, a 25 degree rake is almost a peg tooth designed to cut in both directions like in a two man crosscut. I've sharpened quite a few crosscut mitre box saws, and they have conventional teeth which do more cutting on the push stroke. 30 degree fleam is pretty aggressive too...would dull pretty quickly. Most backsaws have 20 degree fleam.

Regards,

Pete

Chuck Nickerson

08-24-2016, 12:15 PM

25 degree rake? Yikes! All the mitre saws I have seen have the standard 12-15 rake angle like any normal crosscut.
Pete

I certainly don't have your sharpening experience, but analytically:
a normal crosscut saw with the 12 - 15* rake is held at a 45* angle to the work. A mitre saw never has that angle of attack.
Perhaps the mitre saw's extra rake helps compensate for this.

Pete Taran

08-24-2016, 1:00 PM

Chuck,

I think you are thinking about it wrong. No matter what angle the saw is held to the work, inside the kerf, it's all the same once the entire cutting edge is in the cut. Severing fibers is severing fibers, regardless of the angle the saw is held.

Regards,

Pete

Allan Speers

08-24-2016, 2:02 PM

Having used Nobex, Jorgenson and at least three other frame saw miter boxes, I can attest that the Ulmia was the best with Nobex being a distant but acceptable second—I truly didn't like the Jorgenson I tried but maybe it's better now. The Nobex, in spite of its generous depth capacity, seemed more suited to cutting interior architectural mouldings and picture frame stock—I've seen a few in framing shops. The others fell far short in my experience. The Ulmia works very well but is spendy.

David, you must have tried one of the less expensive Nobex models. I have their "Champion 180" and it's absolutely perfect, though I did have to make a few small & simple mods. The Ulmia looks well made & precise, but it lacks a number of significant features: No compound cuts. A very low backing fence. A very shallow deck. (the Nobex fully supports 4.5") No angle markings on the deck, etc. Plus, it's made of iron. Who want to carry that extra weight? It adds nothing to a hand miter saw. For that price, I can't see it at all.

The Ulmia sure is pretty, though, and I guess has hat "vintage" vibe. (except for the saw itself.) It's probably also very precise. - But my Nobex has made countless frames with usually no need for the shooting board after my cuts. How much more precise do you need? The only downside, and this would apply to the Ulmia as well (and NOT to vintage miter saws) is that you can't shave just a hair off the end of a piece, since the blade will flex just a noodge. - But you can deal with that by glueing a sacrificial piece to the end first, or just use a shoot board.

--------------------

FWIW, The Jorgenson is indeed a complete pile of cow droppings. So badly made it's scary. (At least the model I owned.)

Phil Mueller

08-24-2016, 2:22 PM

Thanks Pete, appreciate the experienced input. It seemed a bit much to me, but I'm just getting the hang of this sharpening thing and am at a point where I believe everything I read :)

Sounds like I have a date with a couple hundred saw teeth in my near future.

By the way, here are the two charts I was referencing:

342895. 342896

Glen Canaday

08-24-2016, 10:14 PM

Derek, out of curiosity did your Acme come with the stock rests or were you able to find reproductions? I have a 73A (Atkins saw, cool!) that is missing them and it's bugging me that I just can't find a set.

Derek Cohen

08-25-2016, 2:13 AM

Thanks George. I actually used one of your handles for inspiration - but did not get close. Isaac made a great saw plate, and I tried to do it justice.

Stew, one of the depth stops were missing, and I used that to make new ones. I needed to do a few other things to get it running true (the base was welded and ground, which created a few problems). This was a relatively inexpensive purchase on eBay because it came with faults. I did a write up here: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/Soyouwanttomakeadovetailchisel.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

Frederick Skelly

08-25-2016, 6:25 AM

I scored a small Goodell Pratt 1265 miter box off the auction site recently. It's 12" wide and takes a 16" saw with 2 1/2" under the spline - a saw that I'm having great difficulty finding.

I dont know if it helps, but I think LN will custom-make saws for antique miter boxes. It wont be what you'd pay at a garage sale, but it will be a good tool.
Fred

Mike Holbrook

08-26-2016, 12:18 PM

Bad Axe makes some nice saws that work in miter boxes too. I got mine from Ron Bontz, back before he offered kits. If I had it to do over I might go with the 18" kit Ron offers. My half back, made from a Wenzloff kit back when he made kits, works in mine too. I am happy with my 20" saw though. I find it cuts as fast as my larger 26" saw in my MF 73C. This is because I can use more of the 20" blade without pulling it out of the guide on the far side.

It took me a while to build up confidence in the Stanley 150, as the saw just does not have much to guide the blade. I was also concerned that the metal saw guide would scratch up my nice Bontz saw. Now that I have grown more familiar with the saw holding mechanism I have found it to work quite well, without scratching up the saw.