Salad Bowl Set

[Pat Scott]

A guy at work commissioned me to make him a Salad Bowl Set with 4 smaller individual bowls. I've sold large salad bowls before but never a matching set like this, so I was a little unsure what to charge for the package deal. He's also a friend so I wanted to give him a good deal. Well I think he got a great deal, especially after I saw how pretty the wood is! $200 for the set, which works out to $100 for the large bowl and $25 for each of the small ones.

$100 for the large bowl might be OK, although normally I charge a little more. I would have felt better with $30 or $35 each for the small ones as $25 just doesn't seem like enough. Anyway, I hope he's happy with them, and if not my wife says no hard feelings and we'll keep them for ourselves!

The big bowl is 11.5", and the individual bowls are 6-3/8". I think the small ones stack nicely if I do say so myself! Beautiful Silver Maple with great figure, finished with several coats of Danish Oil.

Oh yeah, I made 5 small bowls but he's only getting 4. I made an extra just in case, but I'm happy with how they all turned out. So the extra is going to be part of a new set that I'm making for myself.
266024 266025

[Mike Cruz]

WAY underpriced, if you asked me. But, as you said, it was for a friend. William Sonoma sells bowl sets for $180 or so out of junk wood that is glued together and likely made by a machine, not by hand. The way I see it, the set is "worth" at LEAST $250. That is $40 for each small bowl ($160) and $90 for the large one. I would want $300 for the set. That is $50 for each small one ($200) and $100 for the big one. But, of course, it is a matter of what people are willing to spend...

Think of it this way... I'm not sure if you had to buy the wood or not, but if you were to buy it (like the blank sets I sold recently), each small bowl blank is $10 and the big one is $20. Now that is what I charged for cherry. But still. So, $60 for the set...IF you were local and could pick it up. If I were to ship it to you, you could add up to about $40 for one set or $70 for two sets to CO. So, for that set, you'd have $100 in the wood alone. That means you "made" $15 for each small one, and $40 for the big one. How many hours did you put into that set? In Maryland, if you sell anything, you have to have business insurance to sell (if you want your shop and tools covered by insurance, and liability coverage). That alone costs me $700 or so per year. My license for the privilege to collect sales tax is $300 per year. Accountant fees are another couple of hundred. So, how much of that $15 per bowl goes in your actual pocket? Unless you are already set up to be a business. Unless this is a REALLY good friend. Unless you really don't care that he's getting a REALLY good deal out of this, $200 simply isn't worth it. At that point, I'd rather give it to him as a gift, and feel good about the nice deed. BTW, I'm not trying to give you a hard time. Just explaining where my thoughts are about the price.

That is a really nice set. And if he doesn't like it, you need better friends! :)

[Fred Belknap]

Pat those look great. The small bowls look like they match, I would probably had to make a dozen to get four that match.

[Prashun Patel]

I also think they're underpriced.

Is Danish oil food safe?

[Ken Glass]

Pat,
Great work on all of the set. They are very nice. Yes, I believe you underpriced the small bowls and agree with Mike C on what the pricing should have been, but, as you said, he is a friend, and I'll bet he appreciates them and the deal you gave him.

[Thom Sturgill]

+1 on what Mike said, but also include sanding and finishing supplies, wear and tear on gouges (they are a consumable), your power bill, etc. Most hobbiests use the excuse that 'it's just a hobby' to underprice the competition that may be trying to make a real income rather than just pay for the next tool or blank.

Nice bowls and I would also agree with Frank, I would have to make a dozen to get four that matched, but then I probably would have two sets done, just that the sets would not match each other:eek:

[Doug Herzberg]

Pat, that's a lovely set. I would also have to do several to find four that match that well. I don't know about pricing, but from what I've heard from others in Colorado Springs, I would guess it's low. But he's a friend.

[Brian Kent]

Do you find that people will pay $250 for a matched set like this one?

[Steve Doerr]

Pat,
As others have said you did a fantastic job on making the set. Trying to get bowls to match shape, depth, diameter and thickness is not an easy job. The question of pricing is always a crap shoot. The guy that commissioned me to do some turnings said do $500 worth of work and we will go from there. He supplied the wood and I figured it would be 6 items (small bowls & small HF) or maybe 7 depending on how generous I feel. Based on what I have been selling here in little ol' Joplin MO I would say yes, people will spend $250 for a matched set like Pat's.
Keep up the good work Pat. That set is definitely something to be proud of.
Steve

[John Keeton]

I agree the price is much too low, and yes, a matched set like this should easily bring $250. I would not do them for that amount.

Regarding "friend discounts", one might consider this - if your friend tells everyone that "Pat made these bowls for me and only charged me $200", you may well have other "friends" that now know that the "real value" of your work is $200. You may get other requests for bowls, and if you charge them more, then they will feel cheated, or that they are not a "friend." If they see your work priced higher than that, they will likely comment that the price is more than what you get for similar work.

On the other hand, if your "friend" truly qualifies as a friend, one might consider simply gifting the set and telling him you usually sell such a set for $250, or whatever you feel is appropriate. He will then tell everyone that you gave him the set, and brag that it is worth $XXX. It is highly unlikely that anyone would have the gall to then approach you to make a set for them free, but they now know what the "true value" is of your work.

Just some thoughts. I do not like seeing my work sold for less than what I think is fair market value. I would much prefer it be given away.

[Mike Cruz]

Prashun, ALL wood finishes sold in the US are food safe...once they've cured. All...

[Jerry Toschlog]

As a professional photographer for close to 30 years I have come to realize that friends and family do not appreciate the deal given to them. Sometimes they had no idea of the great deal I gave them. I have come to learn to show on my invoice / receipt regular price on the top line like a normal client then add a 2nd line with family or friend discount. That way they can SEE the discount they are getting. I know you most likely are not a business, but as long as he does not try to use the invoice for whatever, I would print one up they way I suggested.

[charlie knighton]

+1 for what JK said, it will come back to haunt you, you are setting your price

[Curt Fuller]

First, that's a beautiful set of bowls. Everything about them looks good. You're only one state away from me so I think the markets are probably somewhat similar. If you were putting these in a gallery or selling at an art show you would probably price them higher. But, selling them to a friend, I'm the same way. I would give a good friend a good deal. Money ain't everything.

[Baxter Smith]

Very nice set of bowls at a very attractive price. He got a great deal!

[Greg Just]

Beautiful set and your price is a bargain. I really don't think the average person realizes the work that goes into a the turning of a bowl, let alone 5 or 6.

[Pat Scott]

Thanks everyone for the kind comments. Sorry for the delay responding to any of the posts, I'm in Utah this week attending Glenn Lucas's Signature 5-day class at Craft Supplies.
I took Glenn's class last year and had a blast. He's a great guy and when he saw me (he knew I was coming again), he asked if I forgot everything he taught me last year! :)

Prashun I've used Danish Oil for several years now. It's really nothing more than a little bit different blend of Salad Bowl Finish - which is what I used to use before Danish Oil. D.O. is a little thinner than Salad Bowl Finish so it flows better in my opinion. I get a much better finish using it. It's food safe once the smell (of the mineral spirits) goes away - which can take a couple weeks. What I like about it is that it's more durable than Walnut Oil. Years later and I have yet to touch up any of the bowls or plates we use at home. I also took Mike Mahoney's class several years ago, and Mike said he'd use Danish Oil himself but he can't afford to have bowls sitting around waiting for the smell to dissipate.

As for price, when the guy asked me what I would charge, I didn't know since I've never sold a set like this before. So I started talking out loud trying to think of a price on the spot. I said I normally sell a 12" bowl for $115 to $125, and the smaller bowls would be....(and I was trying to think what I would charge since I've never sold 6" bowls as a set)...and I was still thinking and talking to myself as I realized "it's going to cost several hundred at least", when my friend said "I'll pay $200". I was kind of taken back that he agreed to pay that so readily that I said OK - but at the same time I knew I just under priced myself. I knew $25 for the small bowls is just not enough considering the work involved. But for my first time making and pricing a set I learned. Next time no less than $250. I also picked Maple for a reason: that it cuts and sands quickly and nicely. I knew the choice of wood would help save time also.

If it's any consolation, the reason I've taken Mike's and Glenn's classes is so I can be more efficient and not spend all day making one bowl. I subscribe to Larry the Cable Guys rule of thumb (Git 'er done). If I can crank them out like a production turner, then it helps when I can't get the price I should have asked for. I made all of these bowls over one weekend, but I only worked a few hours each day. So the other lesson learned was that I can produce a set like this in a relatively short period of time.

Thanks for all the comments though, it did cross my mind if someone else from work hears about this and wants the same deal, what will I do? My friend is from out of state and only comes to CO a few times a year, so I'm hoping I won't be put in that position. I had already planned on making it very clear to him that I should have charged him more!

Forgot to say that all of the small bowls do match. I'm not a production turner but I like to think and act like one (remember I'm a student of two of the best production bowl turners in the world). My goal is to duplicate pieces as close as I can. You hear other turners say "no two pieces are alike", or "each piece is one of a kind". Well to me that says they need more practice! The base is the same size on all of these, they are all the same height and same diameter within plus or minus 1/16" of each other. That's what I work and practice to achieve. I've gotten quicker than I used to be, but I am still working on speed and efficiency. Some guys will say it's not about speed, it's about enjoying the process. Well to me I enjoy the process a whole lot more when I can crank out more than one bowl a day!

Oh yeah, and he's not THAT good of friend that I'm going to give them to him. I'll take what I can get. Hey I gotta come up with money to buy that CBN wheel from somewhere!

[Jon Lanier]

Really nice... just as everyone has stated. I'm even more impressed by those of you who can make those bowls all the same size.

[Mike Cruz]

Pat, sounds like you've got things covered. On the subject of not getting "caught" having to do sets for others at $200, if approached by anyone else that sees his set, you can just drop your head, and clearly admit that you misjudged the price...telling them that you barely broke even on that set. Then, let them know the price of a set for them. But like I said, you sound like you've got it figured out.

While not a production turner at all, when I did my walnut set recently, I figured that it took me 2 hours per small bowl, and 3 hours for the large bowl. Now, that includes cutting up the blanks. And I put a bead on the bottom as a foot. The bead alone took me about 25 minutes. Not turning it, but the care of sanding it and around it. If I had done a simple concave bottom instead, I could have shaved at least 15 minutes off that per small bowl.

[Rich Aldrich]

Pricing depends on your market. Around here, you are lucky to get that price. If you have the outlet, you can get the higher price.