Pin gauge vs Marking/cutting gauge

[Tony Wilkins]

Following the Schwarz' advice, as I have for a bunch of stuff getting started, I got a tite-mark gauge. It's been fine thus far but after watching a Frank Klausz youtube video of him doing a dovetail drawer, I noticed how easily he marked out long grain compared to Schwarz using the tite-mark. Got to thinking that there was probably a reason that previous generations developed the pin gauge to begin with. Trying it out, I used a scratch awl to mark out long grain and it was easier than a knife to me.

So how many of you use a pin gauge? Did you make it yourself? Is there a place to find a good new pin gauge nowadays?

[Jim Stewart]

I like the stanley #65. Here is one to bid on: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Stanley-No-65-Triangular-Head-Boxwood-Wood-Scribe-Marking-Gauge-/330949992192?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d0e281f00

The head on these locks in an extremely tight manner making them better than most gauges. I take the pin out and measure it for diameter. Then go to the store and buy a drill bit of the same size. I use the none drill end for the new pin. Grind one side of the drill stem to a curve by grinding free hand. You don't want to burn the new pin so take it slow. You can water dip it often using a pliers or hold it in your hand where you will feel the heat before it will burn. You can finish it on a stone. Reinstall the new pin after you cut or grind off the old drill portion. You want to have the curved portion toward the marking gauge head and parallel to the head. This gives you the advantage of a cutting gauge and the advantages of the the pin. Makes a dam fine gauge superior to any you can buy today. Cheap and you get the joy of making your own tool. Jim

[Dave Beauchesne]

Tony:

I have a Tite Mark and a LV version of the same.

They both improve performance by a sharpening. Remove the wheel, lay it flat side down on a 1000 grit abrasive, press down with a light pressure , and make a few figure eights. Stop, rotate the wheel 90 degrees and repeat, then another 1/4 turn and so on till you have done the 360 degrees.
Look at the face and ensure you have a flat surface right to the bevel. Repeat on 8000 grit in the same manner to keep an even bevel all around.
Install and enjoy a much improved cutting gauge.
BTW, the LV version needs a fair amount more ' sharpening ' but both work very nicely after a tune up. The sharper edge will cut the long grain fibres better. A dull pin style gauge won't work worth a darn either. Don't waste your $$ yet!!
Good luck.

[Jim Stewart]

I did not know what a tite mark was. Sounds like a wheel gauge. Those are good but will never mark like the pin gauge. I have one of that design in a Lee Valley. I do believe sharpening will help it a lot. The stanleys go pretty cheap though. Take a look. Jim

[Winton Applegate]

Klausz makes everything look easy. Can't go by that.


Generally a mark made by a knife gauge used with the grain or into end grain can get lost and be hard to see.
The pin gauge mark is wider and can be seen easier when marking with the grain.
The knife gauge is good across the grain.
You can't have too many marking gauges when you get to making stuff. Can set each one to a different dimension and so go to town on a stack of components without changing a gauge back and forth.
So I would recommend getting one of each of the various gauges and see what you like best. You can always make duplicates of the one you like once you have one to use as a sample.


One of the NICEST gauges I have seen is the one Jim Kingshot used to use.
I really recommend his video to so be sure to at least watch it for the other things that can be gleaned from the video.
http://www.amazon.com/DVD-Dovetails-Techniques-Master-Woodworker/dp/1565233522/ref=sr_1_1?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1373245642&sr=1-1&keywords=jim+kingshott


With the grain I tend to use the Marples brand pin gauge especially when it doesn't have to be ultra precise like for table top thickness or other long planks to plane to thickness.
http://www.amazon.com/Marples-M2154-Mortice-Marking-Adjusted/dp/B00008US77/ref=sr_1_13?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1373246337&sr=1-13&keywords=crown+marking+gauge


and across the grain I use one of the gauges I made which have reground exacto blades.


I have a couple of the Veritas disc marking gauges and they fall some where in between.
Rather than the awl I use two or three Japanese style marking knives I made from files. Flat back with specifically ground knife edges. See Toshio book for specifics.
Used where a gauge can't go.

[Jim Koepke]

My only use of a pin gauge is my mortise gauge.

Most of my marking is done with a Tite Mark® gauge.

If a pencil line is wanted for a rip cut my Odd Jobs often gets the call.

jtk

[Jim Stewart]

The pin gauge that I use is actually a cutting pin. It will cut deeper than a wheel gauge and that is something that I like. I used Hamilton cutting gauges before I starting using the #65. You can buy nice ones for 10-15 bucks.

[Adam Cruea]

I use the wheel gauge from LV, and you'll notice when it needs sharpened. . .it starts working for crap.

I used a pin gauge when I was at my dad's and he had one. . .I just like the wheel gauge better. Heavier cut line that you can trace down with a pencil to mark the thing.

[Jim Stewart]

I am just say'en!

[dan sherman]

it's always been my understanding that pin gauges & scratch awls are for marking with the grain & end grain, and blades are better for cross grain.

[Derek Cohen]

Many different types. My preference is to go with either a cutting gauge with a knife blade or the wheel blades. The pin type are only useful with the grain, and even then most have been converted to a knife (like my #65), so they lose hat advantage. Across the grain pins can tear. For that matter knives can work just fine with the grain as long as you take several light passes to avoid getting caught in the grain.

Marking gauge types ..


Three wheel gauges.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Marking%20and%20Measuring/3.jpg

They all work well but my favourite at this time is the Anniversary LV in stainless steel. The variable fence registration is terrific when getting into tight spaces or working long lengths.


Japanese Kinshiro


http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Marking%20and%20Measuring/JMarkinggauge2.jpg


One on the cheap ..


http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/KinshiroOnTheCheap_html_2e0e1b34.jpg

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/KinshiroOnTheCheap.html


Stanley #65 pin gauge

Note the angles head and shaft, which presentsbthe pin at an angle. Best pin gauge ever made?

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Marking%20and%20Measuring/Stanley65-2.jpg


The mother of all marking gauges .. :)


http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Marking%20and%20Measuring/LeeValleyAprilFool.jpg


Regards from Joburg (in transit to Cape Town)

Derek

[Jim Stewart]

Now I would never argue with Derek Cohen. He is such a wonderful talent and I have learned much from following his writings. I would like to note that my modifications really make the #65 an aggressive cutting gauge. I like the deeper cut for setting chisels and such. I have wheel gauges but there just is know romance in them. When I want a cutting gauge accrost the grain that is not as aggressive I use my Hamilton's. He is now using a system that makes his head block as stable as the #65.
On another note: Derek thanks for the review of the Gramercy Dovetail saw. I bought one and I just can't believe how that saw has helped my accuracy of sawing. It is so light in use I think it makes you let the saw do the guiding. Maybe the handle helps that as well. Jim

[Hilton Ralphs]

They all well but my favourite at his time is the Anniversary LV in stainless steel. The variable fence registration is terrific when getting into tight spaces or working long lengths.
I've just bought one of those Anniversary stainless gauges and they are very nice to say the least. I also have the Veritas dual marking gauge.


Regards from Joburg (in transit to Cape Town)
At least the weather in Joburg is warm during the day but the Cape is bitterly cold. Just don't play your guitar in the street whatever you do!

[Winton Applegate]

Mother
Is that a marking gauge or a pipe organ ?
Builds up the forearm muscles too I wager.

[Jim Matthews]

Pin gauges are fine for scoring cross grain.

Running them parallel to the grain isn't particularly effective.
I find that the rolling gauges and Japanese style gauges pull the fence tight to the working edge.

I don't care for the way the metal gauges feel, however.

[glenn bradley]

Klausz makes everything look easy.

Yeah, a lifetime of experience and his skill / heritage do kinda give him an edge :D. I use a wheel gauge and as mentioned a dull wheel will work poorly just like a dull pin. I like the way the wheel cuts the mark without trying to follow the grain but, to each their own.