Supersize My Bandsaw

[Gregory Stahl]

I have been contemplating adding a 36" band saw to the shop. For past purchases I have favored MM, I currently own an MM24. When I inquired about purchasing the MM36, I was told; "we don't sell many large saws and this machine has to be special ordered from the factory". I couldn't get a real price on the machine either, just $10k+.

So, started looking at the Laguna 37" machine. Looks pretty nice, larger re-saw height, Laguna guides, etc. I am starting to wonder if this machine is built better than the MM36? 15HP motor seems like overkill to me, anyone agree? Laguna said they could change it to 10HP for no cost. I am concerned the 15HP motor will trip my breakers for the circuits I have and I do not want to pay $900 for a dedicated circuit since I rent and am planning to build in a year or so. The Laguna weighs almost 100 lbs more as well. What got my curiosity though is Laguna seems to have a half dozen of these in stock ready to go! Does Laguna outsell others in the large band saw market?

What do you guys think? We have spent considerable time debating the 24" and under machines, how about the larger machines? I am ruling out used as all the machines I have looked at are advertised as nice machines, but turn out to be abused junk and are usually missing parts.

Thanks! Greg Stahl

[Dick Latshaw]

If you want 36 inch and have the $, you should look at Tannewitz and/or Northfield. Big, heavy machines, built to run forever.

[David Kumm]

There have been a few used Steel saws listed recently. Wadkin and Forrester made great 36". In the cast iron realm you could add Oliver 116 and Yates Y36. The Laguna 37 is an ACM 940. The MM is a Centauro 900. The extra 40mm might not seem like a lot but the wheels will account for the extra weight. At that size every saw will be built strong enough for what you want so it is about what you want. Used saws are so cheap in the large sizes I would go that route- did since i have a sweet 116 that cost 3K. The 15 hp or even 10 is for use with a power feeder. Big saws that are dedicated resaw machines have feeders as that is how you get the best finish. The old cast iron direct drive saws will often have 5 hp motors but since they run at 700 rpm they pull about 19-20 amps three phase so they are the equivalent of a larger 1750 rpm one. With a resaw blade and enough tension the guides are barely used to not a big deal. I like Wright guides on old saws but Carter Zephyr are often found on them too. Truth is no one sells many saws of that size anymore. Dave

[Erik Loza]

Greg, I don't want to get into pricing or an "ACM vs. Centauro" debate here on the boards; call your MM rep and he can help you out with that. I will tell, however, that there is no way than any ACM saw of the identical size is heavier than a Centauro.

To answer your question about how many 36" saws sell in a year, let me just say that I sell as many, if not more Italian bandsaws than any other vendor in the US and I can count on less than both hands the number of 36" machines I have shipped during the last five years. As you can imagine, it's a rare need for a saw that large and we do indeed build them only as each one is ordered. That is not to say, of course, that another vendor doesn't have some in stock (maybe you could use that to your advantage and chisel them down on price?) but if our sales are any indicator, the greatest demand is for saws in the 16"-24" range and not much else. At least as far as Italian saws go.

Regards,

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[Tai Fu]

Damn man, if you want to go 36" you might as well just buy a sawmill or something...

[Thomas Hotchkin]

Gregory
A used 36" SCMI bandsaw in Chicago for $2400 on Chicago Clist. Tom http://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/tld/3893683943.html

[Gregory Stahl]

Gregory
A used 36" SCMI bandsaw in Chicago for $2400 on Chicago Clist. Tom http://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/tld/3893683943.html

I went and looked at that machine. It needs a new magnetic starter, new guides and hardware to mount the guides to the shaft. Also, the foot brake is broke and does not work, and finally, the spring retention for the upper guide is broke. If you release it, the shaft falls down like a rock! At their price, and you start adding all these parts to get the saw working, then you are at half or more of a new saw. It has a bunch of other minor things as well. This machine looks a lot better in pics than in person. If I could get it for $1000 then I would take my chance on it; however, they did not want to come down much. Thanks though!

[Gregory Stahl]

It is about 7.3 hp motor as well, not the advertised 9HP.

[Stephen Cherry]

Gregory, if you don't mind my asking, what do you have in mind for the saw. (I understand bigger is better with bandsaws, I have a 24" saw in my garage shop)

[Keith Hankins]

I'll probably get skinned, but I'd go with an old piece of Iron. Go over to the OWW forum and look around you regularly see big Tanowitz, or others. Watch IRSAuctions. ( not the govt). Depending on where you are at you can find a good one. Go 3 phase, with an american made rotary phase converter and away you go. I've purchased a few old ones now for cheap price. I did invest in a RPC and don't regret it a bit. Lot's of umph and will be running long after your dirt. Nothing wrong with Laguna, but you can get better for a lot less. Just my two cents worth.

[Gregory Stahl]

Gregory, if you don't mind my asking, what do you have in mind for the saw. (I understand bigger is better with bandsaws, I have a 24" saw in my garage shop)
This will be a general purpose saw. We will be making a lot of lamination forms, chair piece cutting, and other uses including some re-sawing. I have a mm24 configured as a dedicated re-saw machine as it gets used regularly for this.

[Mike Heidrick]

Id get another MM24. Share blades.

[Stephen Cherry]

This will be a general purpose saw. We will be making a lot of lamination forms, chair piece cutting, and other uses including some re-sawing. I have a mm24 configured as a dedicated re-saw machine as it gets used regularly for this.

For normal hand fed stuff, it's hard to imagine why you would need 15 hp. 5hp to 10 hp with a vfd would be my choice. Another thing to consider, it seems like a steel saw would be lighter than cast iron, so if you are moving that may be an issue, particularly if you are paying someone to move the machines.

[Jamie Buxton]

Pretty regularly I see 36" cast iron bandsaws, built in the early twentieth century. They're still around because they're nearly impossible to hurt. They generally cost $2K or so. The price is that low because everybody is aware that moving them is a challenge, and because they're 3-phase and 9 feet tall, there's no home-hobbiest market for them. If I were hearing prices like $10K for a new 36", I'd start looking for old iron.

[David Kumm]

Karl Schields in IL has an older Northfield 36" for under 1K. Most cast iron 36" had about 20" of resaw but this was a short one with only 14-15". If resaw isn't as important as a big table it's worth considering. Generally shorter blades run a little more smoothly than longer so that is a plus. 36" cast iron are a deal because so few can deal with the size. They are so bottom heavy they aren't as difficult to move as you would think as they are not tippy at all. Dave

[Glenn Ancona]

Greg
I would 2nd the vote for a additional 24 unit but a 24/24. When looking at the 32 inch size machines ourselves they didn't seem to have any larger resaw height, just more width - perhaps that's a consideration. I would think 10hp would be enough? Its certainly enough on our 24" planer and shaper. The Agnier table extensions or a other would make the table as big as you want when you need ( we use festool MF Tables on all sides when needed ) We went with a aggazani 24/24 before the got picked up by panhaus, no regrets. It sounds like you spend considerable time at the BS or at least hope so at 10k plus. You will forget how long it took to get once your enjoying it. It took 9 months to outfit our new shop but now done, I'm glad I didn't waiver on my decisions

[Gregory Stahl]

Another thing to consider, it seems like a steel saw would be lighter than cast iron, so if you are moving that may be an issue, particularly if you are paying someone to move the machines.

Good point, when I move to my new shop in a year or so I hope to have a basement under it for wood storage, ductwork etc. At-least a crawl space.

[Gregory Stahl]

Greg
I would 2nd the vote for a additional 24 unit but a 24/24. When looking at the 32 inch size machines ourselves they didn't seem to have any larger resaw height, just more width - perhaps that's a consideration.

I started looking at larger machines because I felt the prices are getting too high on the 24" machines. I'm looking at mid $5k range to get another 24" machine to my shop! Some of the larger machines are only two to three grand more, and I think there is more give on the price.

[Glenn Ancona]

Greg

The laguna 32 on their site looks very nice but I have no personal experience with laguna. If what Erik is saying about quantity of 32 units sold is true, there should be a lot of wiggle room. Not sure if I could wait a year for any machine as well - The longest build time we had was 5 months and that felt long.

[Erik Loza]

I started looking at larger machines because I felt the prices are getting too high on the 24" machines. I'm looking at mid $5k range to get another 24" machine to my shop! Some of the larger machines are only two to three grand more, and I think there is more give on the price.


Greg

The laguna 32 on their site looks very nice but I have no personal experience with laguna. If what Erik is saying about quantity of 32 units sold is true, there should be a lot of wiggle room. Not sure if I could wait a year for any machine as well - The longest build time we had was 5 months and that felt long.

Greg, in my experience, you are going to end up right around $10K for any new, Italian 36" BS no matter who you buy from. Assuming we are talking about a new machine. That's just what they cost, no matter the manufacturer. There is not a lot of margin in bandsaws (they are only profitable when you sell volume, as opposed markup per unit), which is why you see Italian machines of a given size all around the same price point. The only think which would substantially change that is that if a dealer, for example, has a lot of NOS (New-Old Stock) lying around and just wants to get it off the books. Or refurb/damaged machines perhaps. Of course, that's for the customer to work out with the vendor.

I've been with MM for about ten years now and the "bandsaw demographic" has never really changed in terms of what we sell or have sold: Probably 75% 16" saws, 20% 20" saws, then the rest being 24" machines and the odd order for a really big machine. In fact, the last time we stocked any big machines was during pre-2005, and then it was just a few MM28's in the Austin warehouse. And I remember us having to unload them at a loss at the end of each year jut to get them off the books. Seeing as how we sell just as many, if not more, Italian bandsaws than anyone else, I personally have a hard time believing that sales demographic could be any different for this or that other vendor here in the States. My opinion, anyway. That being said, if a vendor actually has several 36" machines in stock, I am sure they cannot wait to move them and I would definitely use that to my advantage as far as negotiating a deal.

Just my 2-cents.

Erik Loza
Minimax USA