Alternative to jointing long boards [Archive] - Sawmill Creek Woodworking Community

Ken Salisbury

05-23-2005, 7:49 AM

Over the years I have seen many many posts regarding the difficulties encountered by folks in jointing long boards on a jointer. Some of this is a result of the technique used. Other reasons like shorter bed jointers making boards difficult to handle along a shorter bed, etc.

While at the SMC Swap Meet I saw the solution to this problem. Dino demonstrated attaching a portable hand planer to a mounting plate and used with his guided rail system to joint a board. I do not remember the brand of planer he used, but something like the Hitachi 3 ¼" @ less than $100.00 is similar to what he used, if not the actual brand. The result was amazing. It was a dead straight jointed edge the length of the board. Using this system you would only be limited by the length of the guide rails you have available. To me this part of the EZ Smart Demo was the most impressive of all the applications.

Although I have not talked with Dino since the Swap Meet I am assuming he is working on making this an added feature to his system soon. I checked his web page this morning and found no mention of it as yet. Maybe Dino will give us a heads up on where this new feature stands.

Just imagine getting a dead straight jointed edge on a 10', 12', 14' or longer board without having to manhandle the board across the bed of a jointer.

Since only a relatively small number of folks saw this demo I thought I would provide a "heads-up".

You can bet that when this feature is available I will get one to add to my EZ
Smart System

Jeff Sudmeier

05-23-2005, 8:09 AM

Sounds like a great addition to the guide!

Dino really is building a "shop in a box". I can see this system becoming the tool of choice for those who occasionaly woodwork, but don't have the money or the space for full sized machines.

Dino Makropoulos

05-23-2005, 8:26 AM

Hi Ken.
Thanks for the "heads- up."
The good news is that you don't have to wait for me. You have the smart jointer. Is one and the same with your SRK. (Smart router kit)
Works great with the new Bosch hand held planer.

http://www.eurekazone.org/photos/dinoproducts_1648small.jpg
http://www.eurekazone.org/photos/dinoproducts_1647small.jpg

And it will work with all other planers in the near future.
And belt sanders zick saws and even drills.
Our priority now is the "guide control unit" that you saw the prototype and the left bladed Smart base.

"""Just imagine getting a dead straight jointed edge on a 10', 12', 14' or longer board without having to manhandle the board across the bed of a jointer."""

Yes Ken. This is another benefit of the Dead Wood Concept.
One good thing brings another.
Thanks again Ken.
YCF dino

Jim Becker

05-23-2005, 8:40 AM

Dino Makropoulos

05-23-2005, 8:54 AM

Is there any flex in that mounting system? That would be my one concern...it needs to stay absolutely perpendicular to the board's face during the entire pass and our hands are stronger than we sometimes think, especially in radial motion. (twisting)

Jim.
I told you long time ago you should stop over and talk. :cool:
I like the way you think and yes, If you hold the planer on a death crib, the results are less than perfect. but if you allow the planer to do its work, you have a perfect edge. Much better than a stationary jointer.
The answer to that is a stronger connection and 2 mounting points.
We wish we can make our own tools and make them Ready for the EZ.
But until then we have to work with what is out here.
Thanks for pointing this out Jim.
YCF Dino

Steven Wilson

05-23-2005, 10:06 AM

Or you can use a Stanley #7 or #8 and achieve the same result. Edge jointing by hand plane is quick and easy. If you have problems maintaining square then use a Stanley 386 jointer fence.

Per Swenson

05-23-2005, 10:24 AM

I have Jointed 15 foot stock on a 6" delta
jointer with roller stands and another person.
Not just on Saturday. Regularly.
Stuborn and determined.
Until I read this. http://www.woodshopdemos.com/fes-53.htm
There is no more fighting in the shop about
who should lead the dance. One man operation.
works perfect. Did I mention no dust?
For this I owe these two guys.
Per

Steve Cox

05-23-2005, 10:49 AM

All these wonderful tools take care of the edge. But what about the face? I usually need to joint that also.

Per Swenson

05-23-2005, 1:25 PM

If you have a bench top planer or better,
This sled works wonders. http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/pages/wvt095.asp
The only other two alternatives, polish up those hand plane skills,
or invest in a old Iron aircraft carrier.
Per.

Ted Shrader

05-23-2005, 1:40 PM

Jeff -

In addition to your reasons, another key one is: You will be able to take the system to a job site and perform most all of the operations normally done in the shop. Imagine installing cabinets and needing that tapered piece of trim to dress the last cabinet. Or being able to cut plywood chip free on site without your table saw and zero clearance insert.

Ted

Paul Berendsohn

05-23-2005, 2:15 PM

Dino Makropoulos

05-23-2005, 2:32 PM

All these wonderful tools take care of the edge. But what about the face? I usually need to joint that also.

Hi Steve.
That should be our new EZ Smart slogan.
What else it will do? :cool:
Thanks.

Greg Mann

05-23-2005, 3:51 PM

Ken,

In what ways does this differ to jointing with a guided sawblade?

Jeff Sudmeier

05-23-2005, 3:54 PM

Greg Mann

05-23-2005, 4:52 PM

Greg,

I'm not Ken, but I would imagine that the hand held power planer would leave a much better finish than a circular saw blade. Occasionaly I you will get blade marks from a circ saw. With the power planer, you would have no such marks.

Jeff and everyone else,

Before I go any further, and because many of you know I am basically an 'F' guy I want to state that I am not picking a fight here. One of the selling points, and one I believe to be true, is that you can get a glue ready surface with your CS using the EZ. There has been considerable testimony to support this claim. It seems to me that it would be easier to control a tool running on the top of the guide rather than one hanging off the side. It may be possible to use the planer to cover a surface that would be too deep to get with a sawblade, but it seems like it would become increasingly difficult to control as the width of cut increases. Just looking for clarity.

Greg

Jeff Sudmeier

05-23-2005, 5:03 PM

I like Greg's disclaimer so I will add it as well :) Not trying to pick a fight :)

How good is good enough when it comes to the rip? Different circular saws will run truer than others. My Dewalt for example produces a glue ready joint probably about 90-95% of the time. There is a touch of play in the guide base, there has to be or it won't slide. So if I put enough pressure in one direction, I can make a saw mark happen.

If I am paying attention to what I am doing and running the saw true, it produces a pefect cut. If I get distracted and get wild with the saw, it produces a cut that has minor saw marks in it. I still don't think you would ever see them in the finished product.

Jeff Pilcher

05-23-2005, 5:47 PM

I have gotten similar (acceptable) results when using my table saw. The way I see it there are two factors with which to contend. Getting straight edges and getting perpendicular edges. Here are some methods I have used to address these two factors.

To achieve straight edges, instead of buying or building a board straightening jig, I have secured a thin piece of straight stock (luan ply scrap) to my crooked board using double sided tape. The ply is wide enough to extend past the crooked edge of the board. One pass through the saw yields one straight edge. A second pass through the saw (with the ply removed) yields two straight (and parallel) edges.
For perpendicular edges ... In my opinion the edges do not need to be perfectly perpendicular. I will sometimes cut boards to be edge joined using the table saw by cutting one board face up and the other face down. If there is any chance my blade is not perfectly square to the table I still end up with joinable edges since the edges are cut with angles that compliment each other and still produce a flat board after glue up.

Dino Makropoulos

05-23-2005, 5:54 PM

Jeff and everyone else,

Before I go any further, and because many of you know I am basically an 'F' guy I want to state that I am not picking a fight here. One of the selling points, and one I believe to be true, is that you can get a glue ready surface with your CS using the EZ. There has been considerable testimony to support this claim. It seems to me that it would be easier to control a tool running on the top of the guide rather than one hanging off the side. It may be possible to use the planer to cover a surface that would be too deep to get with a sawblade, but it seems like it would become increasingly difficult to control as the width of cut increases. Just looking for clarity.

Greg

Greg. My "F"Friend.
I know what you're looking for. :D that's why you can't see it :rolleyes:

Do you know of any saw blade to give you 100% clean cuts on Formica?
Do you know of any portable CS with 4" depth cut capacity?
Do you like to make tapered table legs 3' or 4" thick without the tablesaw-jigs and jointer?

You want to control the tool from the top? just turn the EZ Smart sideways.
Then the planer is on the top. That is why the first SRK (router kit) was made the way it was. And the new one will have that feature (in the future.)

Greg. The guided planer is an integral part of the Dead Wood Concept.
Next is the guided sanders. Some woods don't like the planers.
I hope now you can give us your blessings.
Thanks Greg.
Y"E"CF Dino

Dino Makropoulos

05-23-2005, 6:09 PM

For perpendicular edges ... In my opinion the edges do not need to be perfectly perpendicular. I will sometimes cut boards to be edge joined using the table saw by cutting one board face up and the other face down. If there is any chance my blade is not perfectly square to the table I still end up with joinable edges since the edges are cut with angles that compliment each other and still produce a flat board after glue up.

Yes Sir.
This is one of this things where you can out-smart the tool.
Nice tip. :cool:
YCF Dino

Per Swenson

05-23-2005, 8:08 PM

Hi Ken,

As a dyed in the wool "Eurekazonian", thanks for giving Dino's latest creation a day in the sun. I can't help but wonder however what the reaction would be if one of his competitors announced a new device and I jumped in to say that Eurekazone could offer an alternative (as was done in this thread). The guy has come up with a truly innovative approach that as Ken himself has said gives "amazing" results. Give the guy his due...
Getting off my soap box now, thank you :rolleyes:

Paul

Hi Paul,
In the immortal words of Quick Draw McGraw of Ricochet Rabbit fame,
Ha ha hawld on there rabbit.
I may be wrong but I do not think you were referring to
Mr Wilson's post on Stanley planes. Although this too
is a alternative. So I am going to go right ahead and assume you were referring to me. I am a professional finish carpenter and have worked in the trades
for close to thirty years. I am also a F guy.
But lets be clear. I am not employed by this company, I receive no
freebies and I get nothing for promoting them.
In the interest of alternatives, and remember, this is a forum
not a merchandising love fest, I felt obligated to share how I now joint my long lumber. I do this as a service to you, the reader, not to
the manufacturer.
Frankly, I could care less how you joint your lumber or what tool
you purchase to do it. If you think I posted to slight or demean Dinos
product you are again mistaken. I wish Dino nothing but success.
My only suggestion is these threads should be posted in the manufacturers
forum, if differing opinions offend you.
Per

Dino Makropoulos

05-23-2005, 8:30 PM

All these wonderful tools take care of the edge. But what about the face? I usually need to joint that also.

For limited production you can use the flying router

http://www.eurekazone.com/photos/flyingrouter/eurekazone_1498.jpg

http://www.eurekazone.com/photos/flyingrouter/eurekazone_1500crop.jpg

or the flying planer and sander. (sorry,no pictures yet) :cool:
But I hope you get the Idea of the Dead Wood Concept.

The good news is that more and more schools are getting into the Safety of the EZ Smart woodworking system and the Dead Wood Concept. :cool:

Paul Berendsohn

05-23-2005, 9:30 PM

Of course I was referring to you Per, but I was being discrete enough to not point a finger :rolleyes: .

I never implied you were a representative of any company here, nor am I. I am also a professional tradesman, and would be happy to compare CVs if that is somehow relevant. But my point remains the same. This thread was instituted by an esteemed member of this community to give Dino justly deserved accolades for an innovative new design. It wasn't described, nor do I believe it was intended by Ken to be, a discussion of jointing techniques. If you think the thread belonged elsewhere I'd suggest you take it up with him. I don't see what is accomplished by pointing out that lumber can be jointed (to some extant) with a circular saw, something I have no doubt most here are already acquainted with. If the point of the thread is (as Ken himself posted) to make folks aware of a new, hitherto unavailable technique, why muddy the water by talking about yesterday's news?

As you might say... da da da dat's all siwwy wabbit :rolleyes:

Keith Outten

05-24-2005, 5:08 AM

Here is a picture of Dino joining a board edge with his system at the SMC SwapMeet. I watched the entire demonstration and I must admit I was impressed.

Frank Pellow

05-24-2005, 9:24 AM

That looks like a good concept Dino. Maybe some day I will get to try it.

Frank Pellow

05-24-2005, 9:27 AM

...
I can't help but wonder however what the reaction would be if one of his competitors announced a new device and I jumped in to say that Eurekazone could offer an alternative (as was done in this thread).
...
Paul
Paul, you have done that before and I expect that you will do so again.

Ken Salisbury

05-24-2005, 9:37 AM

Believe me folks I did not start this thread to start a F vs EZ comparison again.

Of course there are many ways to joint board edges and I have tried just about all of them in my now 60 years of hobby woodworking. My intent was to make folks aware of another way which I was impressed with, especially since this method can be used "in the field".

You can skin a rabbit with a lot of different devices - just pick the one you are the most comfortable with :).

p.s. lets not let this thread become "personal"