Stupid humans (plane crash)

[Brian Elfert]

The San Francisco newspaper has an article about today's plane crash. There are quotes from several people stranded at the airport due to the airport closing after the crash. One was complaining that they were told they might get a flight out of the Oakland airport, but not given directions to get there or a way to get there. Another was complaining about not getting enough information from airport officials.

These people are so self-centered. Two people died and dozens were injured in a major plane crash and they complain because they weren't taken care of instantly. It might be that airport officials are just a bit busy trying to tend to the crash and also figuring out how to get the airport re-opened in some fashion so these folks can get on a plane eventually. There were (and maybe still are) thousands of people in the same situation with no flight out of San Francisco this afternoon and evening. Planes don't just show up out of mid air to get all these people to their destinations. A major airport closure screws up the entire air system and puts many planes in the wrong position for later flights.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Brian.....it is pure narrow-minded selfishness.

I once stood in line at Minneapolis-St. Paul airport and listened to about 130 people whine because the airlines cancelled our scheduled flight due to a mechanical problem. After a while, I got tired of listening to their whining. I told a group of them " You folks have the wrong attitude. I worked air traffic control maintenance for 6 years. I have seen what airplane crashes look like first hand. I would much rather they find a mechanical problem while we are on the ground rather than while we are in the air. Rescheduling or staying over an extra night is a MINOR inconvenience."

[Matt Meiser]

Did you see a full interview or just a quote? Reporters like to pick the "best parts" even if it means turning what the person said 180 degrees from what was really said. Personal experience.

And I wouldn't give the airlines a free pass here either. I've been at airports in a couple situations (thankfully not a crash) where the airlines are at best not giving people information, and sometimes even lying to them about what's going on. Nothing riles up a crowd faster than lying to them while everyone gets a closer version of the truth off their smart phones (don't tell me an airport at the other end is closed for weather when NOAA reports hot and sunny and the news is already reporting the terminal evacuation and bomb squad activity.) I was on a flight through Midway a few weeks ago that was delayed a few minutes for "maintenance" reasons. Then a member of the flight crew walked up carrying a bag from Potbelly....which we all had just walked by....which had a line half way across terminal. Then we immediately boarded.

[Chuck Wintle]

The San Francisco newspaper has an article about today's plane crash. There are quotes from several people stranded at the airport due to the airport closing after the crash. One was complaining that they were told they might get a flight out of the Oakland airport, but not given directions to get there or a way to get there. Another was complaining about not getting enough information from airport officials.

These people are so self-centered. Two people died and dozens were injured in a major plane crash and they complain because they weren't taken care of instantly. It might be that airport officials are just a bit busy trying to tend to the crash and also figuring out how to get the airport re-opened in some fashion so these folks can get on a plane eventually. There were (and maybe still are) thousands of people in the same situation with no flight out of San Francisco this afternoon and evening. Planes don't just show up out of mid air to get all these people to their destinations. A major airport closure screws up the entire air system and puts many planes in the wrong position for later flights. I agree a plane crash is bad enough, people killed and injured, however airlines should be more o n the ball to take care of stranded passengers, IMHO.

[Brian Elfert]

I agree a plane crash is bad enough, people killed and injured, however airlines should be more o n the ball to take care of stranded passengers, IMHO.

What exactly are the airlines going to do if the airport is closed and planes can't land or take off? Most areas don't have another airport. Even if there is another airport nearby there usually aren't any extra planes on standby to handle all the folks from the other airport. Remember, the first priority of the airport officials would be to take care of the crash and the victims. Certainly not everyone would be tending to the crash, but you also have issues such as the crush of media inquiries and folks figuring out how to reopen the airport to get passengers on their way.

I would question if it is the airline's responsibility to provide meals and hotels if the airport is closed due to a crash. Now, it would be nice of the airline to provides meals and hotels, but not required in my opinion. If the flight was canceled due to a broken plane or something in the airline's control that would be a different issue.

I understand why airports don't want to disclose bomb threats and such to those in the airport to not panic passengers, but it doesn't make much sense with the instant communications now.

[Greg Peterson]

Brian.....it is pure narrow-minded selfishness.

Well, this is pretty much who we are these days.

[David G Baker]

I flew Military Stand-by many times while in the Army, I learned that there wasn't anything I could do to change the situation so I just lived with it and went with the flow. I agree with Ken. I didn't like and don't like the thought of flying in a broken plane.

[Mac McQuinn]

Greg,

I don't agree, everything is matter of choice.

Mac




Well, this is pretty much who we are these days.

[George Bokros]

Just my $0.02. The airport officials have responsibility for taking care of and tending to the crash. The airlines should be taking care of the stranded passengers. Two distinct groups of people with entirely different responsibilities.

[Greg Peterson]

Greg,

I don't agree, everything is matter of choice.

Mac

Hard to argue you on that. But far too many choose to be selfish and self centered. It doesn't take many, but we seem to have enough to matter. Whether it be commuting traffic, checkout lines at the store, folks at the gym who refuse to put their weights back where they found them, folks shooting off (illegal) fireworks days before and after July 4th and so on, we have more than our fair share of Me First folks.

[Curt Fuller]

Well, this is pretty much who we are these days.

Not to make light of those that were killed or injured in this plane crash, which it was miraculous that there were not worse injuries and death. But this video pretty much sums up the rest of us (me included). About 2 min into it it gets into airports and flight.
http://www.maniacworld.com/everything-is-amazing-nobody-is-happy.html

[Brian Elfert]

What exactly would the airline do as the airport is closed through no fault of their own and no flights are going out? Should they offer tickets on Greyhound? I suppose they could offer meal vouchers if the delay was to be long. Passengers for planes that are already at the airport when it closes could leave as soon as the airport reopens. Other inbound planes would have been redirected elsewhere so it could be hours before planes were available for other passengers. Airlines don't have large numbers of reserve planes at $100 million each or whatever they cost.

In this case there was a fairly close international airport in Oakland. An airline could potentially send a few customers there, but maybe the flights are full, or the airline doesn't fly out of there. Someone complained they had no idea how to get to Oakland airport, but couldn't they just jump in a taxi? If the incoming plane landed at Oakland I suppose the airline could arrange a bus to Oakland for outgoing passengers, but how long would that take compared to just waiting until the airport reopened and the plane could fly over?

I'm sure the airlines were bombarded with questions as soon as the airport closed and they didn't have any information immediately as to when the airport might reopen as airport officials certainly didn't have that answer for the airlines right away.

[Thomas Hotchkin]

I agree a plane crash is bad enough, people killed and injured, however airlines should be more o n the ball to take care of stranded passengers, IMHO.
Don't cry when they raise your ticket price.

[Shawn Pixley]

I flew out of LAX on Sunday. In the lounge I overheard a woman complaining that her flight was cancelled out of SFO due to the crash. After she had found replacement flights she was whining that she didn't have first class on her 1-1/2 hour domestic flight. I have flown well over a million miles. My trick to surviving is not to take these things too seriously. I don't want to fly with a mechanical problem. Taking off is optional. Returning to earth is not. As David stated, "go with the flow."

Could things have been done better? Sure. We all have bad days and don't have specific training for all situations. Picture the poor airline staff. Each person had likely a line of literally a thousand people each to try and help. All angry, grieving, impatient and cranky. Not a fun situation for anyone. But considerably better for them than the people aboard the crashed airplane.

[Jason Roehl]

I'd agree that whining and complaining about a plane crash shutting down an airport is pretty self-centered. I think there is some balance to the situation, though. I haven't flown commercially in 20 years, so I can't speak to the post-9/11 aspects, but my experiences were great overall, and no major delays that I remember in 4 years total of living outside the U.S. (3 in Taiwan, 1 in Brazil) from '81-'90, flying back to the U.S. from time to time.

What I want to say, though, is that airlines and airports should not neglect looking at ways to keep things flowing in the event of a tragic emergency such as this one. It's sad that a couple people lost their lives, but that doesn't mean the world has to come to a complete stop for tens of thousands of other people. Certainly flying involves some risk of one's time as there are no guarantees, but I would think that once some portion of the emergency personnel are freed up, unaffected runways should be opened back up.

Another example is problems on the interstate. Recently, there was a wreck on the interstate one county south of ours that had people parked for 5-6 hours on the asphalt. In the summer, that's potentially dangerous if a car is low on fuel and can't run/doesn't have A/C, etc. In the winter, when I have to go plow snow, I totally avoid the interstate for that very reason--my boss would be in a pretty big bind if one of his drivers/trucks were parked on the interstate for several hours (and could mean that people slip, fall and are injured on pavement that would otherwise have been cleared and salted in a timely manner). Construction is a whole other ball of wax--officials always seem surprised at the traffic backups when they close one of two lanes AND drop the speed limit, drastically reducing the flow capacity of the roadway.

[Prashun Patel]

Airlines are understaffed and the retail price of flying doesn't reflect the operating cost. The inflation-adjusted cost of flying to passengers is about 1/2 as much as it was in 1980. Costs have however increased. The planes and the economics aren't designed for commuting. They work best on longer hauls. Something has to suffer. Consider ourselves lucky that it's only service that has suffered and not safety.

In fact, the 777 has only had 2 crashes in its 19 year history, and these were the first 2 fatalities. The miracle that there were *only* two fatalities is a testament to well designed emergency systems and a well trained staff (they don't just serve coffee!!!)

[Matt Meiser]

I haven't flown commercially in 20 years, so I can't speak to the post-9/11 aspects, but my experiences were great overall, and no major delays that I remember in 4 years total of living outside the U.S. (3 in Taiwan, 1 in Brazil) from '81-'90, flying back to the U.S. from time to time.

You'd probably be shocked at how things have changed.

[Jason Roehl]

You'd probably be shocked at how things have changed.

Well, we're booked on a domestic flight a few days after Thanksgiving (in-laws taking their family on a cruise to celebrate their 40th), so I guess I'll get some first-hand experience. And, considering what I've heard about the TSA, I think there's a pun in there somewhere... ;) I suppose I should grow my hair out a bit, too. They might be suspicious of a guy with a buzzcut carrying shampoo, even if it's only 3 oz. :D

[Jerry Bruette]

Don't mean to hijack the thread, but Matt have you ever been hassled about your CPAP equipment while going through security?

[Matt Meiser]

TSA, or the private security in Kansas City, never. Doctor gave me a paper explaining that its a disability they must accommodate under ADA. They see them all the time. A TSA agent in Norfolk recently passed my CPAP right through the XRay but appeared in awe of my laptop. I've gotten some dirty looks from people behind me because I have three bags. If any passenger ever has the nerve to actually say something they'll get an earful.

At the gate...knock on wood Southwest NEVER gives me a hard time. Occasionally a gate agent will say something about having three bags but as soon as I say CPAP they apologize and send me down the jetway. Delta on the other hand made me check a bag once and it was not because of limited space as the overheads were half empty. I called and filed a formal complaint and was assured that was not company policy. Since then a Delta agent held up boarding the entire flight while I took it out of the bag to show them. Then again, Delta's general attitude seems to be "why are you BOTHERING us flying on OUR planes!?!? USAirways and American I've rarely flown but never a hard time there. I probably fly 90% Southwest, the rest Delta or American with 1 USAirways flight in the last 3 years.

Also 2 other CPAP travel tips...first, Belkin makes a nice 3-port surge protector that fits nicely in my CPAP bag which is handy for hotels that have one outlet by the bed with a clock and light plugged in. Its also got 2 USB ports for charging phones, etc. Second, at first I would always stop and buy a jug of distilled water which could be a real pain. Now I just use tap water and make SURE I don't run it dry even though they say that's bad. Never had it leave any deposits and I just wash it out when I get home.

[Larry Whitlow]

There are two airports not too far from SFO -- Oakland International (very close and linked by the rapid transit system) and San Jose International. I think the frustration stemmed from the lack of information. Passengers were on hold for hours (or days) without information on when they might expect to get a flight. People spent 12 hours at the airport when they should have been out booking a hotel. They were afraid to leave because they might miss out if their alternate flight was released. Airline 1-800 numbers were jammed. It is hard to blame the airlines because they most likely did not have the answers. Sure, there some shallow selfish people. But don't be too hard on the frustrated passengers.