New Tote for Veritas Low-Angle Jack

[Peter Pedisich]

Hello all,

I have looked up some threads going back 4-5 years that discuss to the LV Veritas Low-Angle Jack tote shape, and found some references to Chris Schwarz buying one of Bill Rittner's totes.
I actually purchased a tote from Bill back in 2011 for my Record No. 4 that came with plastic handles, so I'm familiar with the quality of Bill's work (supper smooth finish)

I have also used my Veritas LAJ a lot recently making some planters, and found the handle shape to be uncomfortable for me, so much so that I was reaching for my Craftsman (Sargent) 18" fore plane more often and the LAJ less. But the LAJ is such a wonderful plane that I'm ready to spend the money and upgrade the tote.

Finally to the actual question!
The Bill Rittner totes (Hardware City Tools) have only one screw, as opposed to the two in the original Veritas, does anyone have a Rittner tote and can vouch for it's stoutness/durability?

Thanks,
Pete

Here are some pics if the nice tote on my Craftsman Fore plane.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-uuCPW4M1qeY/UdTfc2Bpt-I/AAAAAAAACO0/fKT0ExnYW98/s800/IMG_7229%2520-%2520Version%25202.JPG https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-8m1fLXH2GbE/UdTfdHssk-I/AAAAAAAACOw/BYD6ibx23Ps/s800/IMG_7236%2520-%2520Version%25202.JPG

[Hilton Ralphs]

Why don't you just buy a riffler or two and shape it to what you want?

[Peter Pedisich]

Why don't you just buy a riffler or two and shape it to what you want?

Hilton,

Hi, I've also read that due to the dual threaded posts, the shape I want cannot be achieved without exposing the bored hole.
And if I keep the original handle I can get more money for the plane should I find myself in need of selling it to raise money after my wife leaves me for spending too much time in the shop:D

-Pete

[Eddie Darby]

Will this keep your marriage on safe ground?

http://www.leevalley.com/en/html/16j4010h.pdf

http://www.rpwoodwork.com/blog/2011/04/11/great-replacement-handles-for-veritas-bevel-up-and-scraping-planes/

Shorten the front bolt, and use the rear original bolt.

[Chris Griggs]

Been wanting to buy one of those. Always wondered that same thing. I don't have an answer but I've only every heard good things.

[Peter Pedisich]

Thanks all!

Eddie, that was just the info I needed, thanks!

[Danny Steele]

I am wondering if this is a case of the handle being over design on Veritas' part. These were some of the first planes to come out on their new line of planes, and following planes have not had the 2 screws.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Peter

About 18 months ago I changed out three of my LV plane handles, when I built a lower bench, to those made by Bill. I do not recall if there is any special support to maintain the squareness of the handle. I only have a vague recollection that this is via a routed mortice. In any event, like most planes, they require the odd re-tightening every now-and-then. Nothing excessive.

Here are two with a LN at the rear ...

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Planes/LV%20planes/NewHandles2.jpg

Here is a shop made handle using 2 bolts ...

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Planes/LV%20planes/LVLAS2.jpg

I have also made them with one bolt, and added an internal stub for the other to prevent twisting. Note that most Stanley-type handles usually have two bolts - one to secure and the other to prevent twisting. On the Stanley the latter is the screw at the toe.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[David Barnett]

The aftermarket handles are a big improvement, Derek. Of course, the rest of it still looks "stylish like Bulgarian police shoe." :)

[Derek Cohen]

:) :)

David, we are so familiar with the Bailey pattern planes that anything that is different looks strange. Personally I think the round topped Stanley body has a wonderful aesthetic, and I find the Bed Rocks chunky.

But looks alone can deceive.

The handles here do look nicer to my eye than the original LV. The fact is that the LV handles are excellent in their ergonomic envelope. They were designed for an earlier era (if I can say such a thing as I am referring to only 10 years ago) when benches tended to be moving higher among the hobbiests. After Chris Schwarz began drawing attention to lower benches, such as the Roubo, many began moving back to the low, planing bench of Olde. The more upright LV handles really suited the higher bench, where one pushed forward rather than down. When still using my old, higher bench I changed out my handles for something akin to Stanley. Within a month I was back with the original handles. They just worked better in this setting. I only moved to the current handles after I build a bench that was 2" lower. They feel considerably different now compared to when used on the higher bench.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[David Barnett]

I think you're entirely right, of course. The original blocky Lee Valley handles remind me of the razee planes I favored on my uncharacteristically tall bench and do excel for that and for planing sideways at chest level on ship's hulls and so on. Never a bedrock fan—neither the shape nor the frog adjustment gimmick ever impressed me so my L-N planes are all LA or specialty, not bench—if I needed another bench plane, it might well be a Veritas®.

While I learned on a low, massive planing bench, as I chose not to dimension and thickness timber mostly by hand, a taller, more detail-friendly joiner's bench became my model when I built my own, better suiting my hybrid woodworking style and avoirdupois.

Besides, if I ever did get a Veritas®, I could keep it hidden from sight when not actually using it—not so much out of vanity, mind you—as to not compromise my own aesthetic sensibilities. :)

"Form ever follows function. ... but the building's identity resided in the ornament." —Louis Sullivan

[Chris Griggs]

I'm always the odd man out here. But I really like the aesthetics of the LV planes. I think they look cool...the bat mobile comes to mind for me.

Though I too, much prefer the shape of the LN totes. I like the girth of the LVs but they are indeed too upright for my tastes/lowish bench and just bit more rounding around the edges would make them more comfortable too. Definitely, want to get one of the after market totes in walnut. I also always thought it would be cool if they used a North American wood for the knobs and totes.

[David Barnett]

I'm always the odd man out here. But I really like the aesthetics of the LV planes. I think they look cool...the bat mobile comes to mind for me.

Batman? Aesthetics? Ontario Chic? Canadian Deco Streamline? I'll grant you retro without a quibble, at the very least. Like my good friend Bogdan Kiryakov from Blagoevgrad put it:

"Say once, say again. Lee Valley plane like marry good wife. Strong like bull. Make hard work. Stylish like Bulgarian police shoe but no too pretty her run away. Moles no matter when make fourteen childs."


I also always thought it would be cool if they used a North American wood for the knobs and totes.

See, Chris? You want wood where I think its design vernacular fairly screams for rubberized moulded totes and knobs, so who's to say (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzPsdkTCufs)? :)

[Chris Griggs]

Batman? Aesthetics? Ontario Chic? Canadian Deco Streamline? I'll grant you retro without a quibble, at the very least. Like my good friend Bogdan Kiryakov from Blagoevgrad put it:

"Say once, say again. Lee Valley plane like marry good wife. Strong like bull. Make hard work. Stylish like Bulgarian police shoe but no too pretty her run away. Moles no matter when make fourteen childs."



See, Chris? You want wood where I think its design vernacular fairly screams for rubberized moulded totes and knobs, so who's to say (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzPsdkTCufs)? :)

Like I said odd man out. Though I don't really disagree when it comes the BD bench planes. Anyway, for bench planes I like the Bailey design anyway, and if I were going to invest in a set of new BD planes I'd likely go LN (the vast majority of my modern made planes are specialty planes; with the exception of my LA jack all my bench planes are vintage Bailey styles planes).

Though I do feel a need to state that your commentary above demonstrates very little other than your age ;)

[David Barnett]

Though I do feel a need to state that your commentary above demonstrates very little other than your age ;)

Too damned old to know what an X-man or X-men is or are, that's for sure. At my age, I don't even buy green bananas. :)

[Chris Griggs]

Too damned old to know what an X-man or X-men is or are, that's for sure. At my age, I don't even buy green bananas. :)

I'm actually not even entirely sure what the singular for X-men is. Is a member of the X-men an X-man/X-women? Perhaps one just calls oneself an X-men or "one of the X-men" an leaves it in the plural. One of life's great mysteries. Maybe I can find a forum for comic book geeks and post the question there...

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

There's also ALF's approach (http://www.cornishworkshop.co.uk/planetote01.html) which involves tapping a hole for a second bolt in the front of the tote.

[Peter Pedisich]

The new set from Bill Rittner - first impression is that the fit is good for me, but I have not used it for an extended time yet. Bill's front knob is smaller in diameter than the original, not yet sure which I prefer.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-n9SiEwxF17Q/Ug_cBM842NI/AAAAAAAACZE/QnzrnDeJeI8/s800/IMG_0528.JPG

And next to LN:
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-N7yShO1SV2w/Ug_cDYmF8iI/AAAAAAAACZY/37aVI7m3TUw/s800/IMG_0530.JPG

[Chris Griggs]

That tote looks like a really nice improvement for those of us who prefer the stanley style over the LV. The knob looks nice but I'm not sure which I would prefer either. I am a big fan of the Veritas mushroom knob. Very cool though...looks great and looks quite comfy.

[Peter Pedisich]

Chris, the rear tote is a worthwhile improvement for me, it felt right immediately and even after a couple of short sessions. I agree on the Veritas mushroom knob - brilliant shape. The Bill Rittner set is smoother than the Veritas but that's what you'd expect with the amount of hand work he puts into them. I really love the cherry as well, like my LN LA Jack Rabbet.
The Veritas LAJ is an excellent plane that I've made a bit more comfortable for my grip.

[Curt Putnam]

I guess I'm the more odd. I not only like the look of my Veritas planes but I vastly prefer the totes as they come from the factory. LN grips are way too thin and squirrel about in my hand as it gets sweaty. Stanley grips tend to give me a bone bruise - the whole force seems to reside at the hump which is where a small bone in my hand seems to be. Anyway, the Veritas totes are the only ones that fit in my apparently larger than usual hands. Odd, because their saw grips are way too small.

[Chris Griggs]

Yeah. I like the looks too and I also like the girth of the totes. I just prefer something with a little more curve (I like the hump as it sorta fills my palm) and I like something with more lean forward. I really like the tote on the small plow actually too its got a little more curve to it than the BU jack and more lean (i think its the same tote as the small BU smoother too)

You certainly can't be that odd though Curt. LV wouldn't have kept making those totes like that all these years if there weren't a large number of people who really like them.

Peter, thanks for the report. I think for my hands that tote would be an improvement too. I get along well enough with the stock tote that I haven't bother buy one though...I should just cough up the $45, I think I would like Bill's. The cherry does look lovely, I'll go walnut though if I get one...just because I love me some walnut.

[Jim Koepke]

All the afore mentioned experience with plane totes seems like the best reason for one to make an attempt at holding or using any maker's plane(s) before purchasing.

There seems to be some differences caused by bench height and personal hand mechanics having an influence on what will feel "right" in one's hands.

jtk

[Tony Shea]

All the afore mentioned experience with plane totes seems like the best reason for one to make an attempt at holding or using any maker's plane(s) before purchasing.

There seems to be some differences caused by bench height and personal hand mechanics having an influence on what will feel "right" in one's hands.

jtk
It certainly would be nice Jim but I really have no idea how I would ever go about having the chance to hold a Veritas plane before purchasing it. And I am not really into the camp of buying something to try out and returning it unless there is something seriously wrong with it mechanically. Although it seems as though some companies do promote this, it just feels odd to me.

Veritas totes were supposedly researched heavily on ergonomics before actually putting them out. I personally don't get blisters and find them terribly uncomfortable but I do think they are ugly. I find the LN tote much more comfortable and aesthetically much more pleasing compared to LV. I haven't coughed up the $ for the Rittner replacements yet as I find them still functional. Some day I will though as I really like the looks of the cherry on that plane.

Veritas saw handles are a different story. While I don't care for the looks of their saws, the handles are shaped extremely comfortable for my hand. They are perfectly shaped and I could walk around holding the saw all day long, it just feels like it belongs there.

[Jim Koepke]

It certainly would be nice Jim but I really have no idea how I would ever go about having the chance to hold a Veritas plane before purchasing it. And I am not really into the camp of buying something to try out and returning it unless there is something seriously wrong with it mechanically. Although it seems as though some companies do promote this, it just feels odd to me.

Veritas totes were supposedly researched heavily on ergonomics before actually putting them out. I personally don't get blisters and find them terribly uncomfortable but I do think they are ugly. I find the LN tote much more comfortable and aesthetically much more pleasing compared to LV. I haven't coughed up the $ for the Rittner replacements yet as I find them still functional. Some day I will though as I really like the looks of the cherry on that plane.

Veritas saw handles are a different story. While I don't care for the looks of their saws, the handles are shaped extremely comfortable for my hand. They are perfectly shaped and I could walk around holding the saw all day long, it just feels like it belongs there.

Living deep in LN country may make for few Veritas planes in your area. Still, their might be one or two Creekers in your area with one they would let others test drive.

The problem with ergonomics is it runs on the path of "statistical norms." Bench height, hand size and in my case injuries all come into play. We tend to develop our own style of holding tools in ways which are comfortable for each of us as individuals.

In many cases we see ergonomics tossed out the window. Over the years of watching ebay there have been what looks like broom handle replacements for broken totes and saw handles. They may have been comfortable enough for one owner.

jtk

[John W Johnson]

Too damned old to know what an X-man or X-men is or are, that's for sure. At my age, I don't even buy green bananas. :)

My eldest son recently took a job in Naples. I recently visited and spent a few days. What a beautiful area. I'd never been south of St. Pete on the Gulf side. As to your green bananas comment, I cannot image they fly off Publix shelves down there.

[Jim Koepke]

As to your green bananas comment, I cannot image they fly off Publix shelves down there.

Met a woman in the market recently who was upset that there weren't any green bananas. For me a little on the green side is preferred for eating. My wife likes them on the "too ripe for me" side.

jtk

[Lloyd Robins]

Maybe she wanted platinos or plantain bananas, which are green and have a variety of ways to serve such as frying. Kinds of sounds like tools which come in a variety of styles and makes and from which we can pick and choose to suit our styles and tastes. Isn't it wonderful! For planes I prefer LN but Lee Valley get a lot of my money too. Speaking of different options, I did get a #3 Wood River just out of curiosity, and it is a pretty good plane also.