Question for the younger generation

[Adam Cruea]

During my vacation up here in Maine, my wife let me go to Lie-Nielsen Toolworks. I originally was going for a shooting plane, but since it is our anniversary, the spending limit set by the wife was fairly high (several thousand).

Anyway, as I walked in the showroom, basically we were ignored. I had the wife in tow and was explaining what things were used for, trying to pass time until the kid helping the older guy approached. He never did, but instead elected to help another group of older guy that came in after. My wife was a tad bit pissed, and the manager-type lady didn't really want to listen to her (I finally had gotten help after milling about for 30 to 40 minutes).

All said and done, I got a shooting plane and their American Hardwood sample book when I had planned to drop much more.

Now, the question for the younger guys. . .does this happen a lot to you all also? I have noticed when i walk into "serious" woodworking shops, people tend to ignore me. I am just curious if I'm alone in this, or if it is just cruddy luck.

PS: Pardon the crappy typing. I am on my phone and it sucks for stuff like this.

[Tony Wilkins]

I'm not in the younger generation anymore (42) but I remember having that problem a lot in buying suits and buying automobiles (which I've almost always paid cash for). Sorry for you experience and hopefully LN hears they lost money on the deal loud and clear.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

My experience at a LN show was that it was hard to get assisted, but mostly because a lot of other people were heck of pushy. The person at the entrance was very nice and friendly and even the guy being beset on by a bunch of folks did take the time to step aside and discuss things with me under the guise of "taking a break".

But I really think there was only 2 employees there when I was there, so no idea how large a sample set that is.

I've definitely seen the snub from a variety of retailers in a variety of interesting ways. That said, seeing how my wife gets treated in various establishments - I don't complain.

[Chris Griggs]

I can't say that I've had that issue. But that might just be because when I walk into a tool showroom, the kid with ADD inside me rears its head and starts asking all kinds of questions about everything. Last year, at the LN show at Hearne (the 1st one I'd ever gone too) I literally spent like 4 hours at the LN booth pestering Deneb. I got the feeling he was getting a little sick of me but he didn't actively show it. He very graciously answered my questions and demoed a bunch of stuff for me...and the only thing I bought was a $5 sandflex block.

I think the LN folks try to leave you alone if you look like you know what you want. They tend to approach the folks who walk around and polk at the planes like they might bite them and the folks who ask them questions.

Thinking about it more, I guess not all of the employees actively engaged me as much as Deneb, and I've seen some seem a bit disinterested from time to time, but I can't say I ever felt snubbed or anything. I'm also the kind of person who doesn't like being approached by sales people, but that said, when I do need help and can't get it its pretty frustrating....Again though, I can't say I've had that problem with a woodworking retailer.

Which shooting plane did you get No. 9 or 51 or LA jack or ??????

[Chuck Nickerson]

In my twenties (lo' those 30 years ago) I wanted a BMW 635csi.

I spent a fair amount of time being ignored at three dealers before finding a fourth who took me seriously.
I hope he bought something fun with the commission.

[bob blakeborough]

I have had this problem buying a vehicle, but never with woodworking. I had an Infiniti QX56 and when the new model came out I went to the international auto show to check it out and see if I wanted to upgrade. Well buddy working the Infiniti booth wouldn't give me the time of day. I spent 10 minutes or so checking the vehicle out thoroughly, climbing in and out of the front and back seats, checking the cargo area, under the hood, investigating the features etc...

Finally I figured I would just go walk up to him and ask some questions and just before I opened my mount, he literally pushed me aside and went up to an older couple who JUST arrived in the booth and asked them if they were interested in the QX56 and if he could help them! I was a bit shocked but at the same time, not overly surprised as they looked the part compared to me. I simply walked up and politely said "Excuse me sir... I have been waiting 10 minutes to talk to you about trading in my current QX56 in on this newer model, but unfortunately I am very disappointed with the service so I am going to go and give my $80,000 to someone else" and walked away...

In the end I went back to a much less expensive car from the big SUV and am very happy with my decision, so maybe it was a blessing in disguise, but it still does not excuse his elitist attitude. You never know who you are dealing with, no matter how expensive the suit or cheap the hoodie, and the best course of action is to always treat everyone you meet with the same high level of respect...

[mike holden]

I may be the contrary one here. I DO NOT LIKE pushy salespeople. I prefer to browse in peace. I will go to the counter when I am ready and either ask questions or help. But leave me alone until I approach YOU!

And having been on the other side of the counter, it is hard to tell when someone wants help or wants to be left alone. Judge them by how they treat you when contact is made.

Mike

[Curt Putnam]

In one sense, I'd guess probabilities are at work here. The sales folks did an instant "profile" on you. Are terrorists the blond kids from Denmark or the scruffy bearded types from the Middle East? Doesn't excuse things and I'll bet that there will shortly be some serious meetings for the sales staff at the LN store. My son works trade shows a lot. Anybody who walks in the booth is actively engaged - he claims he can tell a serious interest from lookie-loos in the 1st few sentences. I'm equally sure he can and that he makes the occasional mistake.

Now a question for you. Understanding that it is your money and you can react however you wish, does it not seem that you blew a great opportunity to grab the stuff you wanted by not being a little more assertive?

[Paul McGaha]

I feel kind of bad for you Adam. I've never once been to LN so it would have been really significant for me to get to go. Sorry they didn't treat you better. It probably comes down to the quality of the salespeople that happened to be at work when you got there. Everything I've seen about LN is they are very customer service oriented. I find that I get treated ok at woodworking places. At our local Woodcraft (Leesburg, VA) for example the staff is really good. I'm 55 by the way.

[Chris Hachet]

I am an electrician by trade, I know a fellow electrician who is African American and works for a company that works for utilities after a major storm or power outage. He was working down near New Orleans after Katrina...walked into a Dodge dealership where he was pretty much ignored. Finally an old black man came out and waited on him. His first words were "I'm going to be down here for nine months working on Utility work, and my company needs twelve new Dodge Ram trucks, I need the one ton variety, don't care about colors or options. I just need them today and I am paying cash." Would have loved to see the looks on the faces of the guys who lost their commission because they didn't want to wait on someone based on skin color.

[Adam Cruea]

I can't say that I've had that issue. But that might just be because when I walk into a tool showroom, the kid with ADD inside me rears its head and starts asking all kinds of questions about everything. Last year, at the LN show at Hearne (the 1st one I'd ever gone too) I literally spent like 4 hours at the LN booth pestering Deneb. I got the feeling he was getting a little sick of me but he didn't actively show it. He very graciously answered my questions and demoed a bunch of stuff for me...and the only thing I bought was a $5 sandflex block.

I think the LN folks try to leave you alone if you look like you know what you want. They tend to approach the folks who walk around and polk at the planes like they might bite them and the folks who ask them questions.

Thinking about it more, I guess not all of the employees actively engaged me as much as Deneb, and I've seen some seem a bit disinterested from time to time, but I can't say I ever felt snubbed or anything. I'm also the kind of person who doesn't like being approached by sales people, but that said, when I do need help and can't get it its pretty frustrating....Again though, I can't say I've had that problem with a woodworking retailer.

Which shooting plane did you get No. 9 or 51 or LA jack or ??????
No. 51. The thing is a beast, and when I used the one in the showroom, it made some nice curls from maple endgrain. :)

I was hoping to pick up a rip panel saw and some other "want" toys like a LA jointer, but oh well. I will start bugging Mark from BadAxe for a panel saw, and LV carries LA jointers.

[Ryan Baker]

I'm with Mike on this one. I really hate being accosted by pushy salespeople as soon as I walk into a store. Most of the time, I know more about what I want than the person behind the counter, and I will ask for assistance when I am ready for it. Probably most of the people going through the LN showroom are there more to browse than to buy anyway. Not to mention that you vlearly knew what you were looking at, as you were pointing it all out to your wife. The kid may have figured you didn't need any help. We don't know what was going on.

But if you wanted help and didn't get it, why didn't you ask for help? Getting upset and not buying what you wanted doesn't make any sense.

[Adam Cruea]

To answer a few questions: I used to be in retail. You can gauge people quickly by how they carry themselves and observations. I didn't even get a simple "hello", which is what pisses my wife off and annoyed me.

When I finally approached the bench, the kid seemed highly disinterested, which was pretty annoying.

[David Weaver]

No. 51. The thing is a beast, and when I used the one in the showroom, it made some nice curls from maple endgrain. :)

I was hoping to pick up a rip panel saw and some other "want" toys like a LA jointer, but oh well. I will start bugging Mark from BadAxe for a panel saw, and LV carries LA jointers.

Personally, I think you did well not to get either of those. Can't speak for the 51, I'm sure it's a nice plane.

The same level of performance as the rip panel saw is available all over the internet in the form of an old saw that needs to be filed. If you haven't filed saws, there's little easier to do than small rip teeth on a 22-24 inch saw. A small rip panel saw is something that always screams to me as wanting more length, anyway, unless what's being ripped is in a vise and extremely small.

Also, personally, I think you would find as you go along, you will prefer a bevel down jointer to the bevel up.

Nobody has ever ignored me in a woodworking store because there really aren't any here except rockler, and the folks at rockler here are friendly and attentive as can be for the most part.....I don't get much there, though. There's not a lot there for a hand tooler.

The seemingly inconsistent treatment at the store might be more of a maine thing than a LN thing. Wife and I went through there a couple of years ago (except not the LN factory) and people are just different there than here. I'd think in a lot of cases, the last thing they want to do is seem salesy.

[David Weaver]

You weren't wearing any NY Yankees stuff, were you? Probably not, because they probably would've lit your shoes on fire instead of selling you anything.

[Chris Griggs]

To answer a few questions: I used to be in retail. You can gauge people quickly by how they carry themselves and observations. I didn't even get a simple "hello", which is what pisses my wife off and annoyed me.

When I finally approached the bench, the kid seemed highly disinterested, which was pretty annoying.

Yeah that's obnoxious. And a little disappointing considering the very high reputation for service they have set for themselves. Hopefully (and in all likelihood), it was just bad day at the showroom for that kid, and not a trend. My experience at the 2 LN shows I went to was that they said hi, made sure I didn't have any questions and than left me alone, which to me was just right.

Glad you walked away with a nice tool, and that you are pleased with your purchase though. That plane is indeed a monster.

Also, remember they are Mainers. They spend half the year in pitch black frozen darkness, so when the sun starts to come out again it may take them a little time to for them to re-socialize :)

[bob blakeborough]

I'm with Mike on this one. I really hate being accosted by pushy salespeople as soon as I walk into a store. Most of the time, I know more about what I want than the person behind the counter, and I will ask for assistance when I am ready for it. Probably most of the people going through the LN showroom are there more to browse than to buy anyway. Not to mention that you vlearly knew what you were looking at, as you were pointing it all out to your wife. The kid may have figured you didn't need any help. We don't know what was going on.

But if you wanted help and didn't get it, why didn't you ask for help? Getting upset and not buying what you wanted doesn't make any sense.The thing is, there is a huge difference between being accosted by an aggressive sales person and being acknowledged by a sales person. I too, do not want to deal with a high pressure sales person, but I do like when I walk in and someone say hi and asks if you need a hand with anything, and if so, just let them know and they would be pleased to assist, then moves on and leaves you to your desired business...

It shows they care yet don't want to be intrusive...

[Ralph Boumenot]

I've been to LN's showroom in Maine 5 times and that is the way they help you there. They (the kid working the desk) will let you wander around until you approach him/her. He/she will not bother you unless you say something or ask for help. I like that. I like looking around without someone breathing down my neck asking me what I need, what I'm looking for, etc etc. There aren't too many place like this that have the tools out for you to look at, inspect, and try out.

[Peter Pedisich]

Adam, Hey I feel bad that you had this experience, I sure would have been frustrated. Being left alone is fine in my book, but not being acknowledged is not so nice and being skipped over in simply unacceptable. At my company, although not retail, we do get visitors, and if someone was treated like this my boss would absolutely be angry and would want to know - I really think you should send a letter to Tom. When I was 15 (33 years ago!) I learned at my first real job to keep track of who came next and take care of them no matter how pushy others became, it's a simple matter of respect, is this lost in our society??!!! -Pete

[Adam Cruea]

I've been to LN's showroom in Maine 5 times and that is the way they help you there. They (the kid working the desk) will let you wander around until you approach him/her. He/she will not bother you unless you say something or ask for help. I like that. I like looking around without someone breathing down my neck asking me what I need, what I'm looking for, etc etc. There aren't too many place like this that have the tools out for you to look at, inspect, and try out.

I would agree if it had been like that with everyone, but it wasn't. He approached the older guys. Maybe they seemed to be wandering aimlessly, where as I would pick something up and slowly inspect it, or in the case of the planes, take them apart and check their machining. *shrug*

And no, no Yankees stuff. Jean shorts, Birks, and a Harley button-down.

[Mel Fulks]

Well said,Bob. Ignoring the customer is what's rude. And I dare say if their manager saw them ignore a customer they would be fired.

[David Weaver]

I would agree if it had been like that with everyone, but it wasn't. He approached the older guys. Maybe they seemed to be wandering aimlessly, where as I would pick something up and slowly inspect it, or in the case of the planes, take them apart and check their machining. *shrug*

And no, no Yankees stuff. Jean shorts, Birks, and a Harley button-down.

I'm getting ready to duck...but, maybe the issue was the other way-round from what you think it is, and he thought the old guys were too out of it to help themselves!

" yes sir...every month we send out updates on email. Have you heard of it? that's email....E.M.A.I.L.! No transistor radios or switchboard involved. we make tools on CNC machines. Thats C.N.C. You probably never heard of those, either. There's no horses or steam engines in our shop...nosiree!! And we're all literate! These days you have to be!!"

[Chris Griggs]

I would pick something up and slowly inspect it, or in the case of the planes, take them apart and check their machining. *shrug*
.

That's the reason right there. You looked like you knew what you wanted and knew what you were doing. If you ever look around at an LN show you will quickly see that a great many of the folks don't know the basics of how to use a plane, don't know what the different sized bench planes are for, and really don't know how handtools in general might be useful to them. The LN folks spend a great deal of time answering very very basic questions... (e.g. what is a smooth plane for?)

Still surprised/disappointed they didn't greet you (not trying to play down your disappointment, I'd feel the same way), but I really think it was just because you looked like you knew what you were doing.

Next time pic up a tool (preferably something big and expensive like an 8 or 51) and then pretend like you almost drop it. You'll get lots of attention then :D

[David Weaver]

Now that we have the serious part of this thread out of the way, there can be an appropriate level of pee taking for a little bit....

Next time, wear a shirt that says "I have money, make me feel special", or "I'm a buyer today, my budget is in the 4 digits".

Maybe I have mild aspergers or something, but my wife always makes fun of me when I say that for functions where you don't know someone very well, we should all have tshirts that sort of get our intentions out of the way rather than having to guess or figure things out like that through layers of assumptions.

[Adam Cruea]

Chris, you might have a point. I guess I just assumed if you knew the Lie-Nielsen name, knew their prices, and knew what "heirloom-quality" was, you wouldn't be in the store about to drop a huge chunk of change.

David: That's funny. My wife wants me to get tested for autism/aspegers because my social skills are fairly non-existent, I don't really filter myself well (like for me, asking someone if they know they're stupid isn't offensive, just an honest question), and I can't carry a conversation. There are a few other issues, like this (the LN issue here) where I don't really know what is the norm and what isn't, hence ther question to find out if it *is* normal for younger guys to get ignored.

Anyway, I like the idea of the shirts. I will have to let my wife in on that. . .she might even get them printed for me. lol

[David Weaver]

If you go in again, say "Is this the Thomaston prison store?"

"hey...isn't there supposed to be a guy with a shotgun standing behind the checkout dude? What if he gets away?"

[Chris Hachet]

I've been to LN's showroom in Maine 5 times and that is the way they help you there. They (the kid working the desk) will let you wander around until you approach him/her. He/she will not bother you unless you say something or ask for help. I like that. I like looking around without someone breathing down my neck asking me what I need, what I'm looking for, etc etc. There aren't too many place like this that have the tools out for you to look at, inspect, and try out.I need to visit there. Lots of LN tools I would like to try out...

[Chris Hachet]

If you go in again, say "Is this the Thomaston prison store?"

"hey...isn't there supposed to be a guy with a shotgun standing behind the checkout dude? What if he gets away?"Or ask them if this is the Veritas store....

[Bill Houghton]

Unfortunately, "outsiders" get ignored all the time. I've had the experience of walking into several stores of the sort commonly seen as "women's terrain" - for instance, a fabric store - and having to decide whether stripping or setting myself on fire would be a more effective method of getting attention (I always wimped out and just introduced myself to a salesperson). My wife, on the other hand, often has a heck of a time getting attention in auto parts stores, hardware stores, etc. A lot of salespeople engage in the "profiling" Curt talks about (points up). When I was younger, I'd get ignored in places where older (presumably richer) people were the common customers; now I get ignored if I go into a young, hip store. It would be nice to think that this will all fade over time as people get involved in all kinds of different things, the population gets more diverse, and so on...would be nice to think that.

[bob blakeborough]

Now that we have the serious part of this thread out of the way, there can be an appropriate level of pee taking for a little bit....

Next time, wear a shirt that says "I have money, make me feel special", or "I'm a buyer today, my budget is in the 4 digits".

Maybe I have mild aspergers or something, but my wife always makes fun of me when I say that for functions where you don't know someone very well, we should all have tshirts that sort of get our intentions out of the way rather than having to guess or figure things out like that through layers of assumptions. That is exactly what the job of a good and proper sales person is... Acknowledge your presence with a simple greeting, see if any assistance is required, give the customer either the assistance they want or the space they desire, and leave them with a positive experience.

I deal with customers face to face every day, and I am talking everyone from OIL and Gas CEO's to housewives to gutter rats (I sell custom wheels and tires), and I amazes me the customer service horror stories I hear about. I don't want to sound like I am tooting my own horn, but the vast majority of my customers leave my shop blown away with something as seemingly mundane as tires and wheels, and they always tell me that they have never had such a great experience in an automotive based business. This is even better as I am someone who from appearances you would not assume to be accomplished at customer service, but simply dealing with people properly quickly removes question of integrity.

I just don't get it... It is the most simple, common sense thing in the world in my experience. The most basic rule of "treat someone how you would want to be treated" is so easy to apply, yet it seems like a lost skill...

[Peter Pedisich]

I just don't get it... It is the most simple, common sense thing in the world in my experience. The most basic rule of "treat someone how you would want to be treated" is so easy to apply, yet it seems like a lost skill... Amen to that!

[Jim Rimmer]

This is kind off the woodworking customer issue but I wanted to relate a good customer service experience I had recently. I parked my car at an off-airport parking garage. When I returned I drove up to pay and there were a couple of cars ahead of me. No big deal, we all road in on the same shuttle bus. A lady working there walked up to me and said there's another cashier on the other side that can take you right away. I pulled over and the lady there asked me if I had a good flight and was just generally friendly. She gave me a free bottle of water and asked if I had any discount coupons. I said no so she asked who I worked for and she would see if we had a corporate discount. Turns out we did and I got 20% off my bill. As I left she said "Glad to have you back in Houston and I hope you rest up at home and have a good day tomorrow?"

Now, that's not anything spectacular but I drove out of there happy and wanting to tell others about how well I was treated. If they can get people to be that friendly and interested in their customers at a place as mundane as a parking garage, why can't you get the same treatment at a retail store or an upscale woodworking store? It wasn't asking those employees to do a whole lot more, just be friendly and helpful.

[Jim Koepke]

Sometimes it is just a simple matter of raising your finger. NOT THAT FINGER!

Someone suggested sending a letter to management. That is also something I would do. The staffers could use some training in how to make a person who is not being helped to not feel ignored. Even if in passing by saying, "we are short staffed, but we have applications at the counter if you are interested."

This is often the case when a knowledgeable person enters a sales room and starts explaining everything to someone else. You would likely have gotten some attention if you had a sheet of paper in your hand and made a comment like, "I hope they have all of this in stock." Then again, my guess is the sales staff at LN is salaried and not commissioned. Commissioned sales staff always seems a bit more "pushy."

Of course what we do not know is how many times the sales staff scanned the floor to see who needed some help. Making eye contact and signaling that you do want help is important. When they see someone who knows their way around they might get the feeling that you are confident enough to come grab them when you are ready.

I used to do this when I worked in public transit. I would always go to the people with the "deer in the headlights" look on their face. Those who looked to be doing well without help were left alone unless they looked at me and raised a finger or made some other gesture to indicate they wanted my attention.

I have also been on the other side of this and have walked out of more than one store when I felt ignored or over pressured.

Signals can be misread if they are not made obvious.

jtk

[Paul McGaha]

I'm thinking the management at LN really would want to know what happened. Probably be useful to have the date and time of day you were there.

[Mel Fulks]

Adam,it can get even worse. I understand that some of the clothing stores for the young and cool tell their salespeople to try to run off anyone who doesn't fit the store image. Older guy in work clothes might be told "Sir, the Sears is located at the other end of the mall". It's not enough anymore to just want to buy something, you have to help with brand integrity.

[Jim Koepke]

Now, that's not anything spectacular but I drove out of there happy and wanting to tell others about how well I was treated. If they can get people to be that friendly and interested in their customers at a place as mundane as a parking garage, why can't you get the same treatment at a retail store or an upscale woodworking store? It wasn't asking those employees to do a whole lot more, just be friendly and helpful.

Often when people ask me how I am doing, my answer is something like, "I am dealing with a bout of joy and enthusiasm, but it is starting to clear up." Most of the time they chuckle. Sometimes they let me know they weren't paying attention by saying something like hope it gets better.

Often after completing a transaction I will say, "go tell the boss I said you were so nice you can take the rest of the day off with full pay."

It makes them and me feel better. Kindness often has its own reward.

As it happens, one time before work I needed a part for one of my cars. I went in my work uniform and the sales person looked to see if there was a discount he could offer. The place I worked was not good about paying their bills on time. I got a better deal without the discount.

jtk

[David Weaver]

Adam,it can get even worse. I understand that some of the clothing stores for the young and cool tell their salespeople to try to run off anyone who doesn't fit the store image. Older guy in work clothes might be told "Sir, the Sears is located at the other end of the mall". It's not enough anymore to just want to buy something, you have to help with brand integrity.

I'm not that old, and here in the city there are people who are somewhere in the range of age 60 who still try to shop in those types of places because they actually wear those clothes.

But, anyway, a lot of those stores do a good job of keeping people even my age out by playing very obnoxious music at extremely high levels. I like to sneak into to the gap outlet when I go to visit my parents because though there are probably a dozen gap stores here, the one near my parents in a rural area is actually an outlet. Sometimes there's stuff there for a few bucks or things like jeans for ten bucks, and I'll go for that. But you have to have a plan when you go in because guaranteed you won't be able to stay there for long before the music runs you out.

[Mel Fulks]

I think we are on to something good! Once I'm completely deaf I'm going to get paid for staying home!

[dan sherman]

I'm 33, but most people assume I'm 4 to 7 years younger, and I get both responses depending on the store. My preference is to be left alone when I'm in a store, and if I want something I'll go and get a sales person. I absolutely hate it when sales representatives are constantly asking can I help you Sir, as it always seems to be the lease knowledgeable ones. My local Woodworking supply store has learned to say hi when I walk in, and leave me alone otherwise.

[Jim Neeley]

Yeow, there's sharks in the water!! LOL...

Adam,

About a dozen posts ago, Peter recommended that you email Tom Lie-Nielsen, explain what happened, and give him a chance to respond. Have you done so? What was his response? I'm of the impression that is an expectation (ToS) of the Creek before posting negative things about vendors. Words posted on the Internet have a way of living forever.

Heretofore I've always heard good things about Tom's shop although things DO happen, and I'm not doubting your story in the least. I'd just like to hear Tom's side. That could tell you a lot about the company.

Jim


Adam, Hey I feel bad that you had this experience, I sure would have been frustrated. Being left alone is fine in my book, but not being acknowledged is not so nice and being skipped over in simply unacceptable. At my company, although not retail, we do get visitors, and if someone was treated like this my boss would absolutely be angry and would want to know - I really think you should send a letter to Tom. When I was 15 (33 years ago!) I learned at my first real job to keep track of who came next and take care of them no matter how pushy others became, it's a simple matter of respect, is this lost in our society??!!! -Pete

[Tony Shea]

First off, I am a MAINER!! Mainer's are def different but usually are the complete opposite of what the OP felt as though he experienced. I personally find people from Maine much more friendly than 90% of the tourists we get here and that I have any experience with. Im originally from Colorado back when I was 10 but have lived here in Ellsworth Maine since (now 31 years old). Any time I visit my family in CO or am out of state elsewhere I find ppl in general much less friendly.


Also, remember they are Mainers. They spend half the year in pitch black frozen darkness, so when the sun starts to come out again it may take them a little time to for them to re-socialize.
LOL, no Chris this is not Alaska. Although it may feel that way in the winter due to never ending cold a$$ temps but we do not live in darkness, thank god. I do wish our winter was a little shorter but when it is nice here I don't think you can find a much better place to be. I couldn't handle being away from our ocean and woods for too long, I absolutely love it. I highly reccomend people check out our vast wildnerness, it's beautiful. Getting off topic, I know.

I know exactly who you dealt with at LN. He seems to be a bit on the shy side and certainly not the best salesman. I'm not sure how he managed to get the salesman job but he isn't the best to deal with. I used to think he was rude while visiting the showroom but have no come to the conclusion that he is just a bit awkward. I was just there last weekend and luckily Deneb was working the showroom talking about....that's right, you guessed it... Sharpening. Amazing how many woodworkers can't sharpen. The guy he was dealing with was buying a couple chisels and a saw and asked Deneb if the chisels came sharp. We all know what his answer was, "sharp enough to use but certainly can be improved upon." The customer's response was "I don't have the patience to learn to sharpen them." So unfortunately Deneb got tied up showing him the ropes of sharpening while I was there. But he was still very personable with me while teaching him. I was more interested in where they are getting all the insanely curly maple they had in the showroom they were just wasting on testing the showroom tools. He told me but it is a very highly regaurded secret that anyone will need to be killed if they find out through me, according to him anyway. And David is right, if you had anything NY Yankees on then you're lucky you walked out without any physical damage.

So my point is, us Mainers are not at all unfriendly people and I really think you should not judge the value of LN through the kid they have working the showroom from time to time. He is not at all representative of what most of the LN crew is like. I do think a letter to Tom would not be a bad idea. Tom is a very friendly guy and he would've gone out of his way to do whatever you wanted out of him. I've had many conversations with Tom and he doesn't know or remember me from a hole in the wall. He's just that concerned about what people think of his brand.

[Chris Griggs]

First off, I am a MAINER!! Mainer's are def different but usually are the complete opposite of what the OP felt as though he experienced. I personally find people from Maine much more friendly than 90% of the tourists we get here and that I have any experience with. Im originally from Colorado back when I was 10 but have lived here in Ellsworth Maine since (now 31 years old). Any time I visit my family in CO or am out of state elsewhere I find ppl in general much less friendly.

LOL, no Chris this is not Alaska. Although it may feel that way in the winter due to never ending cold a$$ temps but we do not live in darkness, thank god. I do wish our winter was a little shorter but when it is nice here I don't think you can find a much better place to be. I couldn't handle being away from our ocean and woods for too long, I absolutely love it. I highly reccomend people check out our vast wildnerness, it's beautiful. Getting off topic, I know.


Haha! I know you're from Maine. I was baiting you specifically. I was born and bred in MN so I'm allowed to make jokes about the frozen a north. I mean my lord, the city I went to college in has indoor sidewalks above the streets called skyways. You can literally walk around all of downtown Minneapolis without going outside.

I'd actually love to spend some time in Maine. I even like the dead of winter and find it peaceful. Although those short dark days can get rather depressing.

Btw. To others who have met Deneb. Was anyone else surprised by how big that guy is? I mean I'm 6'2 but that dude is a tank. Maine bred farm stock no doubt. When I met him I told him he was way bigger in person than he looked in the YouTube videos. His response "of course I am. I'm only 9 inches tall on your computer screen". Real nice guy...good sense of humor and a very patient teacher. Looking forward to pestering him again at this years Hearne show.

[David Weaver]

I don't know what MN is like, but colorado is notably less polite than here (western PA) and less polite than maine. I think people from maine do feel they're very polite in general, though, because they're exposed to a lot of people from boston, who would prefer to give you the stink eye or intentionally look the other way when you walk by. A lot of the older areas in the midwest south of the ohio river are pretty friendly, much more friendly than anywhere I've been in the northeast.

I liked maine, though. I could live there. I didn't get the same feeling about boston.

[Tony Shea]

Boston and bostonians...ughh!!

MN def qualifies for the frozen north, may even be worse than us. The short winter days def get depressing after a while. I do like the winter for a little while tho.

[Winton Applegate]

I'm in my fifties so what do I know. BUT here are some stream of consciousness thoughts and a quote or two from others :

People are stooooopid
You want attention in a restaurant throw a coffee pot across the room.
You want attention at the tool show room start dropping planes on the floor.

Every week I mention something that could really help a customer. Do they remember it week to week or month to month ? Almost never. Why ? Often they are too busy talking to listen. Even to listen to an answer to a question they have just asked me. I just stand there until they run down and go away. I wonder what the point of all that was.

I SHOW an employee how to do something once. I expect them to take notes if they can't remember stuff the first time. Almost every single young , twenties, person looks at me like I been dropped on my head when I ask them to take notes so I don't have to show them again. Here is a note book, keep what ever you need in it to learn this task. The answer is THAT IS NOT HOW I LEARN just show me and I will remember it. That is how I learn. Almost to a person they ask me to show them at least two more times. That is . . . I don't even have a word for it . . . I teach my self and keep notes . . . I just do not understand.

Often when I go into a store or show room I very often know more about the product I want to look at than the person on the floor. The exception would be an Apple computer store and not because I haven't done my home work. Apple doesn't play around when it comes to their retail stores. What I am saying here is FOR THE MOST PART I WANT TO BE LEFT ALONE TO SHOP.
I don't know. Don't ask me why people do the things they do.

[Adam Cruea]

Wow, you'd think by some replies, I said Tom eats babies and kills kittens for laughs. Good gawd.

All I said was I had a crappy customer service experience. Also, now that someone has said maybe they have a feeling they might know the guy I am talking about (his name started with a B, and I overheard him pretty much doing what sounded like parroting sharpening info). . .maybe this is an employee that shouldn't be in the current position.

I am not saying "avoid Lie-Nielsen at all costs!!!!!!!!" This is me asking, "hey, I had a crappy experience, and have crappy experience. . .anyone else younger have that issue?"

Rest assured, and if my past posts are checked, that I almost always follow up. No matter what happens, any response I get will be relayed.

[Tony Wilkins]

Wow, you'd think by some replies, I said Tom eats babies and kills kittens for laughs. Good gawd.

All I said was I had a crappy customer service experience. Also, now that someone has said maybe they have a feeling they might know the guy I am talking about (his name started with a B, and I overheard him pretty much doing what sounded like parroting sharpening info). . .maybe this is an employee that shouldn't be in the current position.

I am not saying "avoid Lie-Nielsen at all costs!!!!!!!!" This is me asking, "hey, I had a crappy experience, and have crappy experience. . .anyone else younger have that issue?"

Rest assured, and if my past posts are checked, that I almost always follow up. No matter what happens, any response I get will be relayed.

So what I hear you saying is that Tom eats babies and avoid the entire state of Maine at all costs. I'll write that down in the notebook that Winton just gave me. JK.

[Adam Cruea]

So what I hear you saying is that Tom eats babies and avoid the entire state of Maine at all costs. I'll write that down in the notebook that Winton just gave me. JK.

*groan*

Actually, I rather enjoy Maine. The only rude people I have ever really ran into generally seem to be Massholes. I can say without doubt they are certainly nicer up here than down in Maryland/DC/Virginia.

And as someone else said. . .they tend to breed 'em husky 'round here. The guys look more like the people I grew up with in farmland Indiana, and a large amount of women look like wrestling a pig, raising a family, and building a house is a short day's work. Not the most attractive, but a fine work ethic. I wish the work ethic up here would get down into the MD/DC/VA area.

[Winton Applegate]

Colorado less polite,
Yep
The friendly ones are often out of towners.
Must be the thin air but then I have lived here all my life. I am really nice to people until they aren't to me. Say in traffic or walking down the street.
Speaking of walking down the street. We have what a past girl friend called "Bumper People". They walk at you like you aren't even there.
Pedestrian locomotion, especially in the second largest city, is a contact sport. I like Denver better.

[Adam Cruea]

First off, I am a MAINER!! Mainer's are def different but usually are the complete opposite of what the OP felt as though he experienced. I personally find people from Maine much more friendly than 90% of the tourists we get here and that I have any experience with. Im originally from Colorado back when I was 10 but have lived here in Ellsworth Maine since (now 31 years old). Any time I visit my family in CO or am out of state elsewhere I find ppl in general much less friendly.


LOL, no Chris this is not Alaska. Although it may feel that way in the winter due to never ending cold a$$ temps but we do not live in darkness, thank god. I do wish our winter was a little shorter but when it is nice here I don't think you can find a much better place to be. I couldn't handle being away from our ocean and woods for too long, I absolutely love it. I highly reccomend people check out our vast wildnerness, it's beautiful. Getting off topic, I know.

I know exactly who you dealt with at LN. He seems to be a bit on the shy side and certainly not the best salesman. I'm not sure how he managed to get the salesman job but he isn't the best to deal with. I used to think he was rude while visiting the showroom but have no come to the conclusion that he is just a bit awkward. I was just there last weekend and luckily Deneb was working the showroom talking about....that's right, you guessed it... Sharpening. Amazing how many woodworkers can't sharpen. The guy he was dealing with was buying a couple chisels and a saw and asked Deneb if the chisels came sharp. We all know what his answer was, "sharp enough to use but certainly can be improved upon." The customer's response was "I don't have the patience to learn to sharpen them." So unfortunately Deneb got tied up showing him the ropes of sharpening while I was there. But he was still very personable with me while teaching him. I was more interested in where they are getting all the insanely curly maple they had in the showroom they were just wasting on testing the showroom tools. He told me but it is a very highly regaurded secret that anyone will need to be killed if they find out through me, according to him anyway. And David is right, if you had anything NY Yankees on then you're lucky you walked out without any physical damage.

So my point is, us Mainers are not at all unfriendly people and I really think you should not judge the value of LN through the kid they have working the showroom from time to time. He is not at all representative of what most of the LN crew is like. I do think a letter to Tom would not be a bad idea. Tom is a very friendly guy and he would've gone out of his way to do whatever you wanted out of him. I've had many conversations with Tom and he doesn't know or remember me from a hole in the wall. He's just that concerned about what people think of his brand.



Yeah, I was shocked, actually. This is one of the few places I have been where the people rival the kindness and personalities I grew up with in the Midwest. That's why I was. . .shocked.

Anyway, now that you mention it, the kid did seem very awkward, and when the showroom started filling up, got the deer in headlights look. I didn't accost him or anything. . .I actually tried to just make small chit-chat about the box the 51 comes in, and he was. . .well, as you put it, awkward. With someone else in the showroom he may be okay, but the kid was all by himself and when I left, there were at least 15 or 20 people milling around and no-one throwing the guy a life-line.

And I will reiterate, not enough to make me go elsewhere necessarily. It takes 3 strikes for me to mark a vendor off my goto list, and after reading Tony's experience, LN has maybe a 1/4 of an 1/8 of a 1/16 of one (so basically zero, since I usually go through their website). I'll still send off a letter to Tom, as I think it would be wise, but the "manager" asked if she could do something and I just said "not really". It is what it is, and it's not like I was told "Harley, we don't like your kind in here."

[Jim Matthews]

I was hoping to pick up a rip panel saw.. I will start bugging Mark from BadAxe for a panel saw

Or consider buying one from our own Ron Bontz...
He wants your business.

Who makes the LN saws, anyway?

[Hilton Ralphs]

Or consider buying one from our own Ron Bontz...
He wants your business.


Yes very decent guy.

[glenn bradley]

To answer a few questions: I used to be in retail. You can gauge people quickly by how they carry themselves and observations. I didn't even get a simple "hello", which is what pisses my wife off and annoyed me.

When I finally approached the bench, the kid seemed highly disinterested, which was pretty annoying.

I agree that a 'hello', even if almost automatic, is appreciated. Eye contact and a smile increase the value of the 'hello' and immediately set me at ease. Like Mike H. I like to browse in peace but, having an employee get nearby and say something like "Hi, I'm Bill, if you need any help just give a shout." doesn't do anybody any harm.

I have found staff who I believed to be disinterested to actually be shy about interaction as they are inexperienced themselves. This is a training issue and any good manager avoids placing an ill prepared employee in a position of possibly giving a customer negative impression. The folks who go out on the road are always pleasant and patient but, these folks are well seasoned with working the crowds. Sorry for your bad experience. It certainly cost LN some sales.

[Adam Cruea]

Or consider buying one from our own Ron Bontz...
He wants your business.

Who makes the LN saws, anyway?

Oh yeah! I have been meaning to check out some of his stuff. I checked his site at one point, but that was a while ago.

[Trevor Walsh]

I'm 25, and I really hate being pestered. Most places I shop, like when I bought red cedar at Home Depot, I was sitting up in the rack picking through the 2x2 deck railing parts. My aim, like anyone here would think, was to find zero grain runout, tight grain and enough weight. (it's for a boat) And four people stopped to ask what I needed.

I mean really? Do I look incapable? One guy asked how many pieces I needed, I said 4 more and he stood there like he was going to help move the 2 pounds sticks down. After about 4 minutes of me sighting and weighing sticks and ignoring him I think he realized he wasn't of any use and left. I happen to like walking into a woodcraft because the employees usually leave you alone unless you need something. Which is how I like my shopping experiences. If I was an employee I'd attempt to do the same because I wouldn't want to annoy customers, if they need help or input I'd expect (hope?) that they would ask for it.

[David Weaver]

I'm 25, and I really hate being pestered. Most places I shop, like when I bought red cedar at Home Depot, I was sitting up in the rack picking through the 2x2 deck railing parts. My aim, like anyone here would think, was to find zero grain runout, tight grain and enough weight. (it's for a boat) And four people stopped to ask what I needed.

I mean really? Do I look incapable? One guy asked how many pieces I needed, I said 4 more and he stood there like he was going to help move the 2 pounds sticks down. After about 4 minutes of me sighting and weighing sticks and ignoring him I think he realized he wasn't of any use and left. I happen to like walking into a woodcraft because the employees usually leave you alone unless you need something. Which is how I like my shopping experiences. If I was an employee I'd attempt to do the same because I wouldn't want to annoy customers, if they need help or input I'd expect (hope?) that they would ask for it.

See, this is why we need to start the tshirt movement. "I like active customer service" and "i like passive customer service" tshirts are what we should have for days when we run errands or pick up supplies.

Everyone wants something different.

Maybe we'll make one with a flap that goes up and down and says "active" and "passive" so you can choose by store. If people didn't worry so much about what other folks thought (like the fact that you'd look like a moron with a shirt that had a flap on it), I think we'd have a plan.

[Chris Griggs]

I do like the t-shirt idea. Here's my contribution to the LN customer T-shirt line.

"Show me your bronze body"

"Here for my bronze level membership"

[Winton Applegate]

Before we were on the internet, you know, way back in the dark ages, well before the current dark age, anyway . . .
we needed to buy a new VCR with the new DVD capable player. WOW ! We called one of the local home media stores down town. Mom and pop not chain. Just to get an idea of prices and what to discuss between us before we went in the door so we would have an idea of what we were about.
The person said the main guy was out or they would call back with a list of prices etc.
They never did. We called again. Got sort of the run around.
That was when we decided to give the internet a try. SWMBO went to the library, got on line, looked at everything in our range, we discussed it. She went back and placed the order on line.
Painless. No BS. Hey this internet thing isn't so bad.

Around that time I was having a hell of a time planing purple heart with out tear out.
The one and only time I ever saw and so met the owner of the local Woodcrap. He was walking through the store near the wood racks. He saw my LN T-shirt and made a comment. I introduced myself and said I like my planes but was having trouble planing the really hard wood purple heart.

Rather than take me over to the display case and sell me a bevel up or sell me a sharpening jig to back bevel my 45º bed bevel down to steepen the angle. I was sharpening by hand then AND YOU THOUGHT I DIDN'T KNOW HOW . . .
or he could have sold me a book on what to do if he had no idea, which the more I think of it he probably HAD no clue.
Well . . . and this is the owner of the store we are talking about here . . . right ? . . .
he starts talking down to me, basically telling me how wrong I am to say purple heart is hard or special in anyway and how the people where the wood is logged make homes out of it and it is just everyday wood
SO WHAT IS YOUR GRIPE ! ? you insignificant little customer you ?

Well I took two steps back to get out of the way of this imbecile. It isn't like I hadn't looked into it and you ain't going to be pounding nails into dry purple heart and yesssss it is one of the hardest woods in the world.
Like so many, having science and facts on my side, I just BACKED OFF and let CRANBERRY MAN and his entourage parade on by.

The fool lost quite a bit on sales and my money, thousands of dollars in planes and stones and books.
I like to buy local but not from him and by that time the internet was in our home and I pushed a few buttons rather than take my life in my hands to fight traffic to visit his store clear across the city from me.
Nah it isn't the young it is a case of stick head. Or you could substitute a "D" for the S if you want to put a finer point on it.

[Winton Applegate]

When I work retail, and I do make my token effort but work behind the scenes mostly, I keep busy and so will swing by a customer that has just come in and say "Hi , let us know if we can direct you or if you have a question." Then I go on about my work.
It is surprising how timid customers can be. They would rather stand there and fume than say something to get me to look up if I have my back to them.
It drives me crazy that there are a large number of these that will stand were I can't see them because there is a short wall of a couple of feet between two arch ways. I can't possibly see them even if I turn around but they stand at the counter until somebody sees them and walks the length of a long building to help them when they could just make a noise or say hey dude or some such. They can't miss seeing me as they come through the service entrance and walk up to that counter. I am no more than twenty feet away.
DRIVES ME UP THE WALL. The sales person has to walk the length of the building and then they stand there and look at me like why didn't I just help them.
Stick head once again.
A bell on the counter ? Naaaaaaahhhh that would solve the problem. We can't have that. What are you thinking ?
Ditto on the stick.

[Winton Applegate]

flap that goes up and down and says "active" and "passive

That's funny.

[Winton Applegate]

I don't have the patience to learn to sharpen them.
Oh God . . . somebody is in the wrong sport there.
Glad I wasn't there. That's why they keep me in the back anyway. THAT AND THE FACT THAT I HAVE THE "FORMULA" FOR MAKING STUFF WORK.
(prayer and voodoo wasn't doing the trick for them so they hired me).

[Jim Matthews]

"I'm a buyer today, my budget is in the 4 digits".

After doing my homework, compiling my shopping list, and venturing to the store room floor
my first words to the sales staff are "Do you work on commission, because I brought my check book."

I believe that there should be a way to track people who have made a pilgrimage.

I'm genuinely disappointed for the OP, as I've found the staff at the LN traveling show to be engaging.

[John T Barker]

I need to reply to this. I work retail now (furniture) and have worked retail tool sales for Woodcraft. I've also sold to high dollar clientele when working as a cabinetmaker for a very good cabinet shop here in Pa. The notion that a salesman ever has a reason to not approach you is ridiculous, IMHO. He is paid to approach you and make sure you don't need help right away, to see to it you know where you can find what you want. You don't need his help politely tell him so...all is good. A sales man that does not approach a customer, even toss them a "Hello, I'll be with you as soon as I can" is failing at his job. A salesman that can't keep the order of his customers correctly is failing at his job. A customer that has not emptied your pockets of as much money as you wanted to spend has failed his job.
Unfortunately what I have experienced in my own life is that many retail salespeople don't care or know about how to do their jobs correctly. My view has been worsened recently by my current job where our younger new employees often have a "I don't care attitude." On the flip side you often have sales people that are highered for their product knowledge not their ability as sales people. Bottom line, Adam's experience reflects poor training by LN.

[Brian Ashton]

Yeow, there's sharks in the water!! LOL...

Adam,

About a dozen posts ago, Peter recommended that you email Tom Lie-Nielsen, explain what happened, and give him a chance to respond. Have you done so? What was his response? I'm of the impression that is an expectation (ToS) of the Creek before posting negative things about vendors. Words posted on the Internet have a way of living forever.
Jim


How would that change what happened to him other than he get an apology in private - big deal. I think he should post his experience, good or bad, so others can hear about it. And I bet, any store will take far more note of it when it's posted in a public forum... Lousy service is unacceptable, especially when the sales staff are making a judgement about you.

[Scott T Smith]

I may be the contrary one here. I DO NOT LIKE pushy salespeople. I prefer to browse in peace. I will go to the counter when I am ready and either ask questions or help. But leave me alone until I approach YOU!

And having been on the other side of the counter, it is hard to tell when someone wants help or wants to be left alone. Judge them by how they treat you when contact is made.

Mike

I'm the same way; I prefer to browse in peace and then will ask for help when I want it.

The approach that I take with my local customers is to ask them how much assistance that they would like from me, and then proceed accordingly.

[John Lanciani]

...my social skills are fairly non-existent, I don't really filter myself well (like for me, asking someone if they know they're stupid isn't offensive, just an honest question), and I can't carry a conversation...

So we have an individual that is admittedly socially inept that is upset because the young clerk that reportedly may have the same problems didn't give service that was up to the "Lie-Nielsen standard". I think it's time to accept that life isn't perfect and move on, if you really wanted to spend "four figures" at the store I'm sure that you could have worked through the problem and had success.

[Steve Meliza]

I'm 35 and have never felt like sales staff passed me up to help someone else because they were older, but I'm also the kind of shopper that doesn't need greeted at the door and prefers to be left alone till I ask for help. If my purchase is of a significant size then I've done my research and usually know so much more than the sales staff that they are reduced to facilitating the transaction rather than informing me on the product(s).

Some have suggested advertising to the store that you're about to make a large purchase so that the sales staff will be very accommodating, but I'm the sort of person that finds that repulsive. When I was 20 and about to spend $4k I dressed up in some of my worst clothes before hopping in my beater truck to go shopping. Do you know who helped me? That's right, the nice guy that didn't judge people based on appearances. He's the one I wanted to get the commission and not the most senior person that only left his chair for the obvious and easy money. He may have been less experienced and less knowledgeable, but like I said, I do my research first and mainly needed someone to help me operate the products so I could compare them.

A few years later I was in a very busy and popular gun shop yet received excellent service from one salesman over the two visits I made before committing to make my purchase. As I left I tipped him a $20 bill (which is the same amount the store claimed they made on each firearm sale). They guy was ecstatic and as the door closed behind me I could hear him telling his co-workers (which included his boss) with great excitement that he'd just been given a tip for the first time in his life. Want to bet that he was even more friendly and helpful to customers for at least a few days after that?

The sales person in question may be inexperienced or is just not cut out for the job so management should be informed so they know to train or replace as needed. However, as customers we also can help shape the sales force by making sure the good ones get acknowledged and rewarded.

[bob blakeborough]

A customer that has not emptied your pockets of as much money as you wanted to spend has failed his job.

This is about the only part I do not really agree with. My job as a sales person is to try and help my customer spend as wisely as he can within his budget parameters. Sometimes that means he comes in thinking he is wanting to spend $2000.00 dollars based on his own research of what he needs, but after a bit of going back and fourth, I realize that for what he is trying to do he really only requires to spend $1200 a different way. My job is to help him spend wisely and leave my store feeling like I have his best interests in heart, as that way when he realizes I was not trying to fleece him for everything he had, he will keep coming back over and over for many more years to come.

Any halfway effective sales person can take a guys money on the spot, but the real salesman cultivates a lifelong customer who doesn't even consider going anywhere else, and also refers everyone he knows to come and deal with you because you are straight and honest... A loyal, lifelong customer is far more valuable to a company than a one time sale at any cost...

[Mel Fulks]

Haven't seen any mention of the high cost of maintaining retail space. I sold cars for a while in the 70s.At that time the management was spending about 35$ in advertising (including other overhead? can't remember) for each person who walked on to the lot. Returning to the showroom after being told by the 35$,umm ,I mean person ,that they "are just looking" was a way to be fired. The customer always has to be worked.How that is done changes over time ,but is not going to go away. Sales people are not hired to "qualify". Not approaching Adam was a serious error.

[Adam Cruea]

I actually received a reply from Thomas this morning. . .

I won't cut and paste until I have his permission, but the paraphrased gist is basically "I am sorry the sales person didn't at least greet you; that isn't the way I like things to be done. I want people to feel welcome in my showroom. Also, I hope the rest of your trip to Maine went well."

I must say I am wholly impressed Thomas sent the apology so quickly, but at least it asserts in my mind that they really are customer-service focused and Thomas is glad to have the information.

[Matt Meiser]

Any halfway effective sales person can take a guys money on the spot, but the real salesman cultivates a lifelong customer who doesn't even consider going anywhere else, and also refers everyone he knows to come and deal with you because you are straight and honest... A loyal, lifelong customer is far more valuable to a company than a one time sale at any cost...

I've probably spent more at my local lawn and garden equipment dealer in the last 10 years than my truck cost. Actually I'm sure I have. More than once I've gone to them essentially with a blank check and I've never left with the most expensive ______. Both my tractor and mower I was considering a step or two larger. On my string trimmer I think they undersold but they've always been honest on what I NEED over and over to the point I wouldn't even think of buying elsewhere if they have what I want. In one small recent case I bought something they didn't carry and really like and they are now going to start stocking it.

[Steve Friedman]

If you go in again, say "Is this the Thomaston prison store?"

"hey...isn't there supposed to be a guy with a shotgun standing behind the checkout dude? What if he gets away?"]
David, you're not making fun of the prison store are you? My wife forces me to go in there every year when we're in Maine. I guess it is Thomaston's claim to fame, but I doubt the prisoners are using any Lie-Nielsen tools to make the stuff they sell in that store.

Steve

[David Weaver]

Actually, I've only been to the thomaston prison store and not to the Lie Nielsen store. I bought several things there, some I kept and some were gifts, but there was someone with a shotgun standing right behind the guy running the register IIRC.

The stuff is so inexpensive, it's hard to not buy. I believe the 8/4 cutting board I got was about $13, its BIG.

I thought maine was interesting in general, other than portland (cities are plenty familiar to me now), but I got a sense that they pretty much don't like business there in most cases. I'm surprised they haven't chased unum out of the state yet.

[Christian Castillo]

I'm in my 20s and I have felt what the original poster felt. At estate sales though, older folk really treat me like I know nothing, mostly because they try very futile attempts to make me think whatever I have in my hands is "old" and very hard to use and understand. It's funnier when they try that on my girlfriend, who has been so well trained from accompanying me, that she knows the difference in a few Stanley plane types and Disston handles.

[Adam Cruea]

After getting Mr. Lie-Nielsen's approval, I figured I would post this for all to see:



Adam,

Kirsten told me you and your wife were in on Wednesday and had an unfortunate experience in our showroom. Please accept my apologies - that is not how I want our customers to be treated. Brian should have spoken to you when you came in and made you feel welcome.

I hope you enjoy your new tools and will be able to come back sometime, or can visit one of our Hand Tool Event if there is one in your area.

Best wishes, and I hope the rest of your trip in Maine was successful.

So, as you can see, Thomas is very interested in making things right. I just wanted to follow up on this so that people could see the outcome from my standpoint (overly impressed customer) and see this is one company interested in making things right.

[Charlie Stanford]

During my vacation up here in Maine, my wife let me go to Lie-Nielsen Toolworks. I originally was going for a shooting plane, but since it is our anniversary, the spending limit set by the wife was fairly high (several thousand).

Anyway, as I walked in the showroom, basically we were ignored. I had the wife in tow and was explaining what things were used for, trying to pass time until the kid helping the older guy approached. He never did, but instead elected to help another group of older guy that came in after. My wife was a tad bit pissed, and the manager-type lady didn't really want to listen to her (I finally had gotten help after milling about for 30 to 40 minutes).

All said and done, I got a shooting plane and their American Hardwood sample book when I had planned to drop much more.

Now, the question for the younger guys. . .does this happen a lot to you all also? I have noticed when i walk into "serious" woodworking shops, people tend to ignore me. I am just curious if I'm alone in this, or if it is just cruddy luck.

PS: Pardon the crappy typing. I am on my phone and it sucks for stuff like this.

They only had one salesperson working a showroom where most customers are going to want to demo each tool before they buy it? There's your problem.

[Jonathan McCullough]

Hmm. Retail experiences. I think there's a cultural cutoff point somewhere around the age of 30 when you instantly become "old." One of the things that changed since I became "old" is that most young people in retail aren't paid enough to care about much of anything, and that their opportunities for advancement are severely curtailed. Their situation is not like it was when people were growing up in different eras, more like the 1930s, which few people remember. A big put-off for a lot of customers is commission sales; the retail establishments that use them shall go nameless but you know how annoying it is for Willy Loman to wrap their arms and legs around your calf and let you drag them around the store with their furtive, hungry glances and sickly air of quiet desperation. Another thing to consider is how degrading it must be to deal with an unpleasant personality that walks through the door. There are the narcissists, the "you're cheating me" types, the inexplicably hostile, the "customer is always right"-ists, followed by the "I demand to see your manager"-s, and the internet-whining-my-ego-wasn't-stroked-ers. Multiply that by twenty, forty, a hundred, and although I've never worked retail, I can easily see how things sometimes don't work out. Almost all customer problems can be laid at management's feet, it seems, or the customer, but seldom a salesperson. My best advice is to approach a salesperson with a pleasant disposition, say please and thank you, tell a joke. You wouldn't believe how this changes a person's day when they get dumped on by customers and bosses all day long.

[Winton Applegate]

My best advice is to approach a salesperson with a pleasant disposition, say please and thank you, tell a joke. You wouldn't believe how this changes a person's day when they get dumped on by customers and bosses all day long.

I don't know much about the pope that is going out but you are a candidate for saint hood from my perspective.

[Jeff Duncan]

Long thread but I'll add a couple thoughts.....first in answer to the original question, I've had good and bad experiences and age has not seemed to change that significantly. You simply have good, and bad, and plenty of in between sales people, and it comes down to luck of the draw. An example, I drove up to the local Ford dealer in my F-150 to look at the new F-150's. A salesman eventually came out and although seemed polite enough, when I tried to open the door to one of the trucks on the lot which happened to be locked, he explained that the keys were inside. I stood there for a long awkward moment or two before turning away.....well thanks anyway:confused: I bought from another dealer......almost an hour away:( Doesn't mean the dealership was bad, just that particular salesman was and unfortunately the dealer, good or bad, takes the hit.

As far as Maine goes, in a general sense I find they do tend to be very friendly and helpful. Of course the areas we frequent are in southern Maine which tends to have a significant population of transplanted Massholes:p I guess they get tired of being Massholes and want to go on to friendlier pastures:D And Portland kind of reminds me of what Boston was like 25 years or more ago before it got so snotty, so it just feels kinda comfy.....if not a bit small:rolleyes:

JeffD

[George Gyulatyan]

So, Google thinks I am in the 65+ year old bracket just because I google woodworking related stuff a lot :rolleyes:.

I am 41 FTW.

[Jim Koepke]

I bought from another dealer......almost an hour away Doesn't mean the dealership was bad, just that particular salesman was and unfortunately the dealer, good or bad, takes the hit.

I would have been tempted to go back to the first dealer to show them my new truck. Maybe the first time you go in for dealer service.

Where I grew up a lot of people had their own businesses. Many of them continued to wear their coveralls even though through the years they had done quite well for themselves. One friend referred to them as "overall millionaires."

jtk

[Dave Sheldrake]

Technology franchises seem to be the problem here rather than woodshops or tool suppliers.

I'm scruffy most of the time, clean but scruffy, I wear blue jeans and T-shirts in the office and only spanner myself into a suit if a "situation" requires it.

I was in the local PC World (UK computer parts franchise) as I needed to get some memory for a desktop and didn't have time to wait and get it (50% cheaper) online. The normal saturday job young lad pounced on me and started into his sales pitch about all the properties of the memory I was looking at (half of which was erroneous and the other half plain wrong), well that's his job I guess so I let him carry on without saying anything. After he's finished his sales pitch he added "but I wouldn't expect you to understand that"

I just said "No Habla Ingles" and wandered out.

As is often noted "Arguing with idiots is pointless, they will simply drag you to their level and beat you on experience" I could have given him a 30 minute lecture on Nuclear Physics to demonstrate I'm no idiot but it wouldn't achieve anything other than losing me 30 minutes I'm not getting back. The minute the seller assumes anything they have already insulted the other party as well as discredited themselves (not to mention losing whatever sales they may have made).

For me...the best way to save face is knowing when to keep the lower half closed :)

best wishes

Dave

[Brian Ashton]

Technology franchises seem to be the problem here rather than woodshops or tool suppliers.

I'm scruffy most of the time, clean but scruffy, I wear blue jeans and T-shirts in the office and only spanner myself into a suit if a "situation" requires it.

I was in the local PC World (UK computer parts franchise) as I needed to get some memory for a desktop and didn't have time to wait and get it (50% cheaper) online. The normal saturday job young lad pounced on me and started into his sales pitch about all the properties of the memory I was looking at (half of which was erroneous and the other half plain wrong), well that's his job I guess so I let him carry on without saying anything. After he's finished his sales pitch he added "but I wouldn't expect you to understand that"

I just said "No Habla Ingles" and wandered out.

As is often noted "Arguing with idiots is pointless, they will simply drag you to their level and beat you on experience" I could have given him a 30 minute lecture on Nuclear Physics to demonstrate I'm no idiot but it wouldn't achieve anything other than losing me 30 minutes I'm not getting back. The minute the seller assumes anything they have already insulted the other party as well as discredited themselves (not to mention losing whatever sales they may have made).

For me...the best way to save face is knowing when to keep the lower half closed :)

best wishes

Dave

But when you consider the sales attendant's, age, pay scale and brain capacity you'll quickly understand they don't give a crap about losing sales only getting back to texting. The only loser there is the store owner that can't find anyone with an IQ above 70 to work for them.

I live next to the local university here and over the years boarded many students and I've come to the conclusion that 90% of gen y are intellectually challenged and for the most part useless at basic daily functions. I mean most of them can't even load a dishwasher without comprehensive ongoing instruction.

[Dave Sheldrake]

But when you consider the sales attendant's, age, pay scale and brain capacity you'll quickly understand they don't give a crap about losing sales only getting back to texting

So very true my friend :)

best wishes

Dave

[Josh Rudolph]

Absolutely! It happens to me all of the time. Try being 5'4" with a baby face! I get so turned off anytime I have to deal with a salesperson as they tend to judge me as soon as I walk in the door. So I am sure to educate myself on the product of interest as good as possible and just count on being blown off.
My worst experience took place at a trade show back a few years ago. I was 31 and had $1,000,000 (yep you read that right) to spend on providing a new/upgraded capability at my work place. I had spoken with most of the vendors in the past and talked with all of them at the show. The company hosting the show used to be the "cadillac" for providing this capability and had provided my old unit that we would be upgrading. I went over and stood in the middle of their booth browsing all of their wares. I browsed for about 10 minutes throughout the large booth. There were at one point 7 employees in the booth...not one approached me to even say hello. I had finally reached a point I was getting irritated with being blown off, so I went over and stood next to 2 of the employees that were having a conversation. I did not interrupt them and it was obvious I was waiting on one of them to address me. I stood probably about 2 minutes, which seemed around 20 minutes. I then turned and walked out of their booth to never look back. I made sure when it was time to select the vendor to provide the capability, it was not going to be that one. Since then, I have been contacted by them as my name was on the list of attendees. I told them my experience and how I was treated, I let them know what they missed out on being able to provide. I have since then bought many other high dollar items (though not near as large) from their competing vendors as I refuse to give them any money for how they treated me.