What is your prefered method for laminating veneer to a panel?

[joseph dake]

I just glued up a top for a jewelry box and while trimming the top to size I am getting a few bits of tear out at ends of the veneer. What do you use to cut it to size before or after applying it.

[Roy Harding]

I use my table saw with either a rip or crosscut blade as appropriate, and I haven't experienced any problems.

Does your saw blade give you good cuts on everything else? (Try cutting a piece of melamine if you have any laying around - it'll give you a good indication of the state of your blade).

At the risk of stating the obvious, and not meaning to be insulting, it's worth asking if you have the veneer (good) side up during any cutting on the table saw.

[Mark Bolton]

\(Try cutting a piece of melamine if you have any laying around - it'll give you a good indication of the state of your blade).

Just being funny, but the first thing that popped into my head was after cutting the test piece of melamine you'll surely know its in a worse state than it was prior to the test... :D That stuff will knock the edge off for sure..

[Roy Harding]

Just being funny, but the first thing that popped into my head was after cutting the test piece of melamine you'll surely know its in a worse state than it was prior to the test... :D That stuff will knock the edge off for sure..

You're right - but making a short test cut on melamine gives you a very clear indication of blade sharpness. Everything from a dull blade to a chipped tooth will be glaringly obvious. When I've experienced tear out with a newly sharpened blade, this is what I do - if the melamine comes out nicely (on the "good" side), then the problem isn't my blade - it's something else.

In the case of the original poster - it could be anything from inadequate glue, improper gluing technique, to an inappropriate substrate. The most likely culprit, and easiest to test for, is the saw blade.

[joseph dake]

New blade. Had the good side up and down for a few of each cuts. I had to keep the setting on my miter gauge I really didn't have a choice. I figured out if I raise the blade into it doesn't chip out. It also helped when I got rid of all the extra waist I could first. I will post pics when I'm done.

[Roy Harding]

New blade. Had the good side up and down for a few of each cuts. I had to keep the setting on my miter gauge I really didn't have a choice. I figured out if I raise the blade into it doesn't chip out. It also helped when I got rid of all the extra waist I could first. I will post pics when I'm done.

Try a piece of masking tape on the cut line. I'll be interested to see the photos.

[Mike Henderson]

Couple of questions:

1. What glue did you use to attach the veneer?

2. How did you press it during the gluing operation?

Mike

[joseph dake]

I used contact adhesive and rolled it like formica.

[Mike Henderson]

I used contact adhesive and rolled it like formica.

Very bad choice. Contact cement will not hold veneer over the long term. A much better choice would be a urea formaldehyde glue. But then you need to press it, which you can do by putting plastic down and then a caul, with clamps.

You were using raw veneer, weren't you? And not paper backed veneer?

Here's (http://www.amazon.com/Woodworkers-Guide-Veneering-Inlay-Techniques/dp/1565233468/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1372822938&sr=8-1&keywords=A+woodworkers+guide+to+veneering+and+inla y)a good reference on doing veneer.

Mike

[joseph dake]

Yes I was using a raw veneer. I am wondering why it would not work for wood veneer but works great for countertops.

[Paul R Miller]

Contact cements are elastic. What veneer requires is a hard set glue.
As Mike said above, urea formaldehyde is a good choice. For me a better one is hide glue, either hot or a good quality liquid like Old Brown Glue. I do a lot of marquetry and veneer work and use pretty much only hot hide glue in conjunction with hot metal cauls in my press or for plain veneer (not marquetry) I like to hammer it. This is not an option with liquid hide glue but is easily the fastest, least expensive, and in my mind at least best way to apply plain veneer.

[joseph dake]

Okay, I have a few questions about presses and using them. When you have a quad or book matched layout how do you keep the veneer from shifting around out of place?

[Jeff Monson]

Okay, I have a few questions about presses and using them. When you have a quad or book matched layout how do you keep the veneer from shifting around out of place?

I use veneer tape to hold the pieces together. I use cold press veneer glue and a vacuum bag system for my veneer work.

[Mark Bolton]

if the melamine comes out nicely (on the "good" side), then the problem isn't my blade

Agree'd, one of the tougher materials to cut cleanly and of course a small test cut isnt going to hurt much ;)

[Mike Wilkins]

No expert here, just offering my nickels' worth. Make sure the blade is clean, score the intended cut line with a utility knife prior to sawing, place a strip of masking tape on the cut line, slightly moisten the area, put a coat of sealer or shellac on the top and let it cure before trimming the size, or a combo of all of the above. Use a dedicated crosscut blade with lots of teeth. As for glue, I have had lots of success using Titebond III or Titebond Cold Press Glue, which is specially formulated to use for veneering. Good luck and watch those fingers.

[Richard Coers]

Yikes, comparing formica countertops to fine veneer work is not a good sign here. One is a rigid multi ply high pressure laminate or resin and paper, the other is a very thin slice of natural wood. Can't even think of one thing that makes them similar. The use of contact cement for hobby veneer work was started years ago, and I think mainly by Constantines. They should have been shot right there. Of course there are also guys that will come on and praise that work, along with the guys who use pressure sensitive tape. Just watched Scott Phillips do that on TV, cutting his work with a scissors and a utility knife. But you know what? I don't consider Scott to be a fine furniture maker, just barely a furniture maker. I don't recall anyone talking about table saw blade quality either. A "new" blade means nothing. It can be a new $25 blade from Home Depot, or it can be a $160 Forrest Hi-AT. One is for 2x4s, the other for fine veneer work. You've got a lot of reading to do Joseph, or even better, find a mentor.

[Peter Quinn]

A veneer blade may help. Generally high ATB TC grind 80z. I got one for plywood....end of my problems. Not all 80Z blades are equal, if you do a lot of this it may be worth the investment. Many are sold as "melamine" blades, that's what the triple chip blades are for, something strong and more blunt to take the hit for the high ATB teeth. I never cut melamine with mine, don't like the smell. If it won't cut plywood clean that's enough evidence for me that its dull.

[Roy Harding]

I don't do a lot of veneering, but it's not an uncommon task. When I do it's for small projects such as keepsake boxes, and the like.

I've found that a vacuum bag is indispensable - I bought one meant for making skateboards a few years ago. It wasn't terribly expensive - on the order of $60.00 or so. Google "skateboard vacuum press" and a variety of sources will be found.

I've only used my regular Titebond I or II equivalent glues - and never had a problem. Veneer tape is a must for book matching or any other time you are veneering multiple pieces. For larger projects - large panels, etcetera, I would look at some of the glues and methods others have brought up (I bow to their more relevant experience.) Bottom line - contact cement isn't the right choice - for all the reasons outlined above.

A good veneer and/or plywood blade would also help - although I've never had a problem treating veneer as solid wood - IE, rip blade when ripping, and cross cut blade when cross cutting.

The are a lot of good resources out there on the internet - do a little reading and Youtube watching, and you should be good to go.

[Roy Harding]

... I never cut melamine with mine, don't like the smell. If it won't cut plywood clean that's enough evidence for me that its dull.

You're quite right. My choice of melamine for test cutting probably has to do with deteriorating eyesight - bad cuts are VERY visible using this material. If you haven't yet experienced the joys of "playing the back nine of life", then your eyesight is no doubt sharp enough to detect any problems by using plywood without recourse to a magnifying glass. For the more "mature" amongst us, however, I highly recommend a short cut in melamine - the bad cut will be extremely obvious.

[Mark Bolton]

I don't consider Scott to be a fine furniture maker

Oh lord, what a chuckle,.. Im no fine furniture maker either but every time I watch that guy its like swallowing shards of broken glass. Its just excruciatingly painful. But its the way of the world, he, the wood whisperer, and so many more, have populated shops and homes with free sponsored tools and virtually zero skill and experience, I have to applaud their marketing savvy. But I digress, sorry, didnt mean to hijack.. just gave a rise to my day HAH..

[Jim Tobias]

Joseph,
As others have said, a good glue (urea formaldehyde, hide glue, plastic resin) is going to give you the best bond. If you get it spread evenly over the entire surface, you should have little , if any, issue with tear out/chipping. I've had some very gnarly burl veneer that cut perfectly without tear out after using urea formaldehyde glue in a veneer press. If you had concern, you could use tape along the cutline for extra support.
As for the veneer pieces(bookmatch or 4 way) moving around\, you definitely should be taping them together with veneer tape before putting them on substrate.
Below is a shot of a piece with veneer tape applied.

Jim

265700

[Tony Joyce]

A veneer blade may help. Generally high ATB TC grind 80z. I got one for plywood....end of my problems. Not all 80Z blades are equal, if you do a lot of this it may be worth the investment. Many are sold as "melamine" blades, that's what the triple chip blades are for, something strong and more blunt to take the hit for the high ATB teeth. I never cut melamine with mine, don't like the smell. If it won't cut plywood clean that's enough evidence for me that its dull.

I'm not familiar with a "high Alternate Top Bevel Triple Chip grind" who offers this type blade?

Tony

[Roy Harding]

I'm not familiar with a "high Alternate Top Bevel Triple Chip grind" who offers this type blade?

Tony

Just about all saw blade brands offer such blades. For an explanation, this source isn't bad. http://www.dekalbsaw.com/glossary.html

[joseph dake]

I am using a freud blade, I have been woodworking long enough to know better than to expect good cuts from junk blades. All I said was that I rolled it like you would a formica countertop as I don't have a press as this is the first time veneering anything. I had a nice piece of walnut veneer, curly maple and a six day weekend so I thought I might try something new. I also had the contact adhesive on hand so what the hay I used it anyway.

[Tony Joyce]

Just about all saw blade brands offer such blades. For an explanation, this source isn't bad. http://www.dekalbsaw.com/glossary.html

The source you list does not describe the grind you reference. "High Alternate Top Bevel" & "Triple Chip Grind" are two separate and very different grinds, which I'm sure you meant to say? I thought this was a new grind and I was intrigued by what it might look like. If I'm wrong I'd still like to see an example?

Tony