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Jerry Bittner
05-22-2005, 5:45 PM
In the process of making a sideboard using poplar. Have never used this type wood before but after many projects with white and red oak, figured I'd try something different and easier to work with.

Someone advised me that I need to be careful with the staining because poplar, like pine, can "blotch" easy.

What precautions if any should I take before staining? Also any problems with it accepting varnish?

Jerry

Jim Becker
05-22-2005, 6:57 PM
The best way to avoid problems with staining poplar is to NOT use stain. Use dyes. Many of my projects have been made from this species (tulip poplar also called yellow poplar - Liriodendron tulipifera L.) and I've had excellent results. After final sanding, I raise the grain with distilled water and knock down the fuzzies with 320 after it dries, then apply the dye and knock down any new fuzzies with 320 once that is dry. A coat of de-waxed shellac is then applied to seal the dye and whatever top coat I've chosen follows that...usually water bourne acrylics sprayed on.

BTW, don't worry about the greenish color of the freshly milled heartwood...it will brown/tan out after exposure to UV and oxidation. It will also not affect your final color. Many folks, for some reason, feel that poplar is only good for paint. But with it's easy workability, moderate hardness and close grain not unlike maple and cherry, it's a very versatile and economical species to work with. There is a LOT of furniture made commercially that is poplar under those factory finishes, too...

Donnie Raines
05-24-2005, 9:21 AM
There is a LOT of furniture made commercially that is poplar under those factory finishes, too...[/QUOTE]

No doubt...many of the "cherry finish" items you see on showroom floors are either constructed of poplar, alder or even soft maple.

If you have never used dyes before, do not be afraid to try them. Frankly, I find them more friendly to use then some of the oil base stains off the shelf...though the species of wood you are usieng could effect this. The biggest key when useing water soulable dyes is to not panic....after applying the first coat the color may appear flat and some what ueneven. This will cure it's self once the mositure evaporates from the surface of the wood. It will still be flat, but the color will be much more uniform. I prefer to use scothbrite pads to knock the fuzzie down after applying the dye(and letting it dry) but that's just me. Jim's recommdation for 320 grit is fine as well. Be sure to seal the dye with de-waxed shellac however. Should you skip this step, you will notice some of the pigment leaching into the final finish....not a good thing.

Of coarse....sample, sample and more sampling prior to going for broke on the real project. I find that I may not be 100% pleased with the "packaged" color of a dye when mixed....I tend to mix them dark(less water) and mix it until I have the desired color....sometimes I even mix colors to achieve what it is I am after.

Ken Salisbury
05-24-2005, 10:25 AM
Another alternative is to use Minwax Wood Conditioner which helps a lot if you want to use stain. I have used it for years to condition wood like pine, poplar, fir, etc in prepartion for staining/dying.

Larry Browning
05-24-2005, 12:55 PM
Jerry,
As a side note to the finishing issue. Recently I made a cabinet with doors out of poplar and the doors warped rather severely after about 3 months. My next project is to remake the doors from cherry in hopes that they won't warp. I am blaming the warping on th poplar, because it is sort of a soft wood. So you are making doors for this project you might consider cherry or maple for the door frames.

Larry

Donnie Raines
05-24-2005, 1:01 PM
Jerry,
As a side note to the finishing issue. Recently I made a cabinet with doors out of poplar and the doors warped rather severely after about 3 months. My next project is to remake the doors from cherry in hopes that they won't warp. I am blaming the warping on th poplar, because it is sort of a soft wood. So you are making doors for this project you might consider cherry or maple for the door frames.

Larry

Larry,

I truely doubt that the warping issue you have experienced is exclusive to poplar as a whole....just the particular batch of poplar you have used. There could be a handful of answers as to why this happen...the wood could have been dried wrong(dried to fast...not enough..or even to slow), there could have been tension within the log when milled. It could have been the milling process it's self....or the manner in which the lumber was handled(the way it was stacked and where it was stacked).

Cherry is very similar to poplar in many, many ways. I seriously suspect that there are other issues at hand involving the poplar you have used.

Ken Salisbury
05-24-2005, 1:23 PM
Jerry,
I am blaming the warping on th poplar, because it is sort of a soft wood. So you are making doors for this project you might consider cherry or maple for the door frames.

Larry

Larry,

I have to disagree (respectfully) with you. Poplar is a very stable lumber if dried properly. It is the primary reason most of the "old" furniture makers used poplar on most of their drawers. I have never had a problem with poplar warping. I wouldn't consider making drawers from anything else. Just about any wood is subject to warping if not properly dried.

Jim Becker
05-24-2005, 3:59 PM
Doors that warp are a sign of unstable/stressed/improperly dried lumber...and that applies to any species.

Larry Browning
05-24-2005, 6:13 PM
I didn't mean to hijack this thread with my misguided statement about poplar. I will start another thread.
So, I'm with JB on using dye on poplar. Be sure to go thru all the finishing steps with your scraps. The final color of the piece seems to change a bit as you add the top coat.

larry

Carl Brandt
02-29-2008, 7:55 AM
First I want to thank all of you for posting. I have learned a lot already. I have a spacific question concerning finishing my latest project a poplar When I am finished I would like to be able to see the different colors and textures in the wood I reallly like the way it turned out. Not perfict but! I would also like to darken it so that it will match with the rest of the furniture in the room. With this said and understanding that testing on a scrap is essential could anyone make a suggestion as to what process that I could test that would possibly produce the results I am looking for. Attached are two Pics of my project.

Steve Schoene
02-29-2008, 8:47 AM
I think Jim Becker gave very good advise in the second post of this thread. Dye is completely "clear" and won't cover the grain. It will reduce the contrast between the lightest part of the woods and the darker parts, but unless you go with a very dark, highly concentrated mix it won't obscure those difference.

One thing when working out tests with the dye is that it's appearance on the wood is very different from what happens when a top coat is applied. You can get a pretty good idea of the effect of a top coat by wiping the dried dye surface with mineral spirits.

Jon Crowley
02-29-2008, 10:15 AM
I'm relatively new to woodworking, so I've been using poplar because it's cheap, and I won't feel as bad if I mess something up and end up with firewood. :) At about $1.60/bf, can't go wrong.

If you're interested, I have a recipe for a good very dark brown Pottery Barn style finish over poplar. Use transfast powder dye: 1 gram black, 1g dark mission brown, 1g burnt sienna, 6 oz water. After applying, use BLO followed by shellac. The burnt sienna doesn't really add a reddish tone like you'd think, but seems to cancel out some of the odd natural poplar color.

I'll have to take a picture...

George Bowen
02-29-2008, 4:34 PM
I used a series of die and gel stain to get poplar to my liking. Very dark brown but with the grain still visible. I am going to try a lighter die as that is where most of the color came from, I mostly used the gel stain as a glaze and to even some of the color out. Then topped with dewaxed shelac and wipeon poly.

I wouldn't just stain it by itself though unless it was a drawer box or not visable, just my personal taste. But died and stained it looks pretty good.

Andy Richards
03-07-2008, 10:57 AM
If you are going to add oil stain on top of the dye, does the dewaxed shellac go down before or after the stain?

Jon Crowley
03-07-2008, 11:00 AM
You could do it either way depending on what look you want. If you shellac before the stain (called a wash coat of shellac), it will partially seal the wood and the stain will not penetrate as much.

You definitely have to use an oil based stain though if not sealing the dye first, as a water based stain will re-dissolve some of the dye and probably have an "interesting" effect. :)

Andy Richards
03-07-2008, 11:24 AM
The thing that frustrates me the most about finishing are the infinite number of choices. For my project, it seems like i've spent just as much time doing test boards of finish as it took me to build the dang thing.