Check my LV and LN order

[Tony Wilkins]

Got a gift and so now I have a good chunk to put down on some tools. Been moving things around in my head and here's what I have:

A) From LV
1) low angle smoother with pm-v11 blade
2) #6 fore with pm-v11 blade
3) dx60 block with pm-v11 blade

B) from LN
1) a bench chisel since I like my LN mortise chisel so well
2) a large router plane

Whatdya think? Should I get an extra blade for the LV Fore if I want to use it as a jack and a shortish jointer/try? I'm caught between the cheaper LV low angle smoother and an LN #3 or #4 - thoughts please? I'd also like an LV small plow but I'd have to drop something (maybe the LV block or the smooth plane).

Plane wise I have an old street jack and coffin smoother but after using a very poor example of a bailey #5 I like the feel of it better. Guess for that matter I could get either an LV or LN #5 and two extra blades to use it as a 'jack' in the full sense.

So, lots of thoughts that I keep rolling over in my mind.

[bob blakeborough]

Assuming these are the tools you need most at the moment, the only thing I might do different is to flip the LV #6 to an LN #6 and the LN large router to the LV large router. I also prefer the LV BU smoother over the smaller LA smoother having used both, but really these are just personal preferences. All the tools in question will undoubtably top performers...

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

What are your planned uses for the #6? I'm assuming you aren't too tight on funds given the extent of these orders, but depending on what you're shooting to accomplish with it, you might be better served by a re-habbed vintage plane. Certainly not trying to discourage a new tool if that's what you want, just something to think about. If I'm doing coarse work, I actually find a vintage plane a little more agreeable for the lower weight.

For the work I do, I would rather have a plow plane than a router plane, (although ideally I'd want both) but I don't have a tablesaw or router right now, so that's really the only way I have to make grooves.

[Tony Wilkins]

Had thought of that Joshua and it would be a good option. For that matter, I've got a smoother and a jack. I really probably need a jointer more and was just looking at the LV BU jointer. I was thinking about the router and plow (and a shoulder) would probably be more useful to me now.

[Chris Griggs]

The LV router with a fence makes a respectable plow. No its not as fast as the dedicated plow but its not bad to use for it either. You pretty easily get in the rhythm, of taking a cut, then turning the knob, then taking a cut, then turning the knob until you get to the final depth. I used my router plane that way MANY times before I had the small plow and whilst it was a little slower it got the job done just fine. Just food for thought.

[Jim Matthews]

I rarely reach for a plane larger than 9" long.

I'm not entirely sure what a #6 would do that my jack plane can't.
The router is one of the most useful tools in my shop. I would move that to the top of the list.

The block plane is rarely used in my shop. If you consider the LN skew block plane, with nicker - it's a little more useful.
It makes cutting dovetails a little easier in boxes and drawers. It can be pressed into other block plane duties.

For most of that sort of thing, I would prefer a decent spokeshave or #3 handplane.

The small Lee Valley Veritas plow plane is a very well made tool, but it's made for cutting grooves and little else.

*******

I would ask (if you have the time for it) have you considered taking a course of instruction with the gift?
It's well and good to have nice things, all the better to know what they can do.

Instruction will shorten your learning curve, and may save you money in the long run,
steering you away from tools you want toward the ones you actually need.

[Tony Wilkins]

Chris, I had thought about using the router in lieu of the plow and that's still a distinct possibility.

Jim, it was my understanding that a longer plane would make straightening longer pieces easier (like the table legs I'm working on now). How do you manage that with a plane that short? (I don't have any power equipment). Also, classes would serve me well but I can't be guaranteed to be up to the task with my health on the days that they are scheduled - plus travel is difficult for me these days. I'd also considered the LN skew block for the 140 trick as well the LV moving fillister.

Thanks for the responses to help me think through what would be most useful and what would/could/should be done by another tool with more versatility.

Jim, your post reminded me, I had thought about getting the set of David Charlesworth DVD's from LN.

[Tony Wilkins]

Maybe I should have just listed what I have:


Current tools: fixed for saws with 26" Disston rip and cross, Wenzloff pannel Rip, and a 12" Bad Axe hybrid DT/carcasse.


Planes: Old Street Jack, Old Street Smoother, wonky union #5 (tote won't screw in at back)


Chisels: 1/4" LN Mortise, 1/4" and 3/4" Blue Spruce Bench, Slight over 1/4" Pig Sticker vintage (which I can barley wield)

and then I probably should have just asked what to get with a grand ($1000 US)?

[Andrew Hughes]

Don't be discouraged about the #6 fore Tony,I have one and love it big wide blade.Its nice and heavy.I too use for it for legs and cleaning up the edges from the jointer.When I want a table top super duper flat Thats what I use.

[Winton Applegate]

I agree with Jim that shorter planes can do about every thing. Maybe for different reasons.
I am not short on long planes; in my stable I have a LN bevel down #7 and a LV bevel up # 7 . I LOVE owning them but sure don't need them, even for making my long work bench or dinning tables. I used them to make these but found the other planes as useful or more useful.

What will make your choices clearer or will help us advise you is for you to tell us what woods you plan to work in the coming years ?

I love the LV bevel up big smoother but i work really hard tear out prone wood and have stacks of blades for that plane.
If you are working the friendlier woods then bevel up may not be the best choice.

Oh and to answer how you go about it with short planes use a long straight edge to tell you where the high spots are but then you will still need to do that with the long planes especially when jointing to glue up a large panel

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Not having power tools either, on many projects, my jointer and my jack find a lot of use- that said, I'm cheap, and start with rough stock quite frequently. If you're working with surfaced stock, that's in good shape, or working on shorter bits of lumber, you may not find yourself needing the longer planes as much.

As I don't find myself making so many "need it now" projects, I've trended towards taking on my projects with my limited tool kit, and then supplementing it as I find myself finding I either need something, or thinking that "gee, that tool I saw would make this thing easier next time, and I plan on doing it again". I find it really easy to get myself into a trap of over-analyzing my tool chest and what I *need* to work and not actually doing anything. I found that with practice and care I can get a lot more done with a couple saws a couple planes and a chisel than I can while I wait to save up some money and wait for the next package to come in the mail.

None of this is meant to be disparaging towards spending money on quality tools - I hope I don't come across as poo-pooing anything here.

[Tony Wilkins]

Jim, don't worry, it takes a lot more than that to stop me spending money when I have it budgeted. I also have found myself using rough stock most of the time, the last order of wood I got was the first s2s I've gotten (and that's because it was cheaper).

Winton, I plan on working in Walnut and Cherry and can see myself happy with that for a long time. Building a shaker side table now and hope to work up to do a new dining table for us and being readers all we have a constant need for bookcases that kindle and iBooks hasn't cured.

[Winton Applegate]

Walnut and Cherry and can see myself happy with that for a long time.

Now you're talkin' You are right there. Good way to go !

OLD STREET ! OLD STREET !
you didn't tell us you had those !
No reason to fool around with those OTHER guys when you already have the best.
No seriously just use those.
I am jealous. I have one small OS coffin smoother before they stopped taking orders. I will some day own one of the big jointers (even though I said I don't need it ) I want to see what it is like to use a plane that big and light and straight and hardly needing any slicky on the sole.
Whoo weeee sounds like heaven to me. Hope I find one someday.

When you get 'round to making the dining table let me know. I got some things to say on that subject.
PS: I have the LV router plane and it is a very worthy tool. I am glad I bought it.
Be sure you have a good scrub plane LN or LV. You know that little short narrow dude for hogging off thick ribbons of wood planing across the grain (or diagonal which ever works best on the particular wood you are working).

[Mike Allen1010]

Don't be discouraged about the #6 fore Tony,I have one and love it big wide blade.Its nice and heavy.I too use for it for legs and cleaning up the edges from the jointer.When I want a table top super duper flat Thats what I use.

+1 to Andrew's suggestion.

Tony, I love your thread -- it's like raw meat to all the handtools dogs here in the cave!

It looks like you have a great hand tool set going. I am a 98% hand tool guy (no joiner /tablesaw/thickness planner) so I'm with Andrew -- I use my #6 all the time as a fore plane for flattening Glued up panels, truing shorter edges and long stretches of end grain that I Clamp vertically in my face vice, which I prefer to the shooting board-- the mass and long sole really make this easy.

You know the saying "opinions are like..., everybody has one", -- for me based on what you have now I would like a long joiner plane (lots of options they from contemporary manufacturers to an old Stanley #8 -- maybe one of the most used planes in my shop).

I also think a premium block is super handy for final fitting of doors, drawers and smoothing those ittle areas of tear out out in larger panels that larger planes have trouble reaching, without removing a lot of stock.

Just my opinion FWIW. Based on the tools you mentioned you really can't go wrong my friend -- you got a list of winners there.

All the best, Mike

[Mike Holbrook]

Tony, if you are not in a hurry you could make more hand planes. Lots of threads here by people who did exactly that. I made four from kit parts I bought from Steve Knight when he stopped making planes. Nice to use planes you make and you can make them exactly the way you want with any wood you want, mine are purple heart. Stu at Tools From Japan is offering some nice Japanese plane blades.

If you like the wood planes you have and want to buy more, check out BlumToolCo. Garry will make you a fore plane or other type out of your choice of wood. Blum has a unique blade & blade support system that makes sharpening easy. He even sends a sharpening jig with each plane. The Blum Fore plane I have is made out of Mesquite, which is one of the woods with the least tendency to absorb moisture or change. It is a beautiful tool and works exceptionally well.

[Jim Matthews]

Jim, it was my understanding that a longer plane would make straightening longer pieces easier (like the table legs I'm working on now). How do you manage that with a plane that short? (I don't have any power equipment).
Jim, your post reminded me, I had thought about getting the set of David Charlesworth DVD's from LN.

I think David's videos are well worth the money. They make good reference material, as it's possible to only get a glint of what's shown until you're presented with the application in your shop.
I get straight edges mainly by verification; I mark the line I want on the first leg (the reference) and use it as a template for the next leg.

The first goes slowly.
The remainder come along more quickly, and they're similar to the template, if not uniform.

Same for longer edges - I check with a straight edge as I go, and a square as I'm close.
I've come to rely on the plane to tell me if I'm square and close to flat.

The reason I don't use a plane so large as the #6 is that with the length comes considerable heft.
I find that the utility of this design is *ahem* outweighed by it's bulk.

Using the equivalent of a Number 4 (my Jack plane) I can plane for roughly 2.5 hours before tiring and inducing errors.
Using a larger plane, I can plane for roughly 90 minutes. I do own a long wooden jointer, but the blade is more narrow than average and that presents less drag.

Having tested my results with both, I can say that (for me anyway) the larger planes offer little more utility and are rarely used.
Something like a decent router plane - that's close at hand.

If it was me (it isn't) I would invest in shop comforts, first.
Prosaic things like good floor mats, a dust filtration system and streaming audio made my shop inviting.

Having more planes to maintain puts me on a different path, altogether.


*******

Not to be an apostate, but I would take this amount of money and get at least a table top bandsaw.
After that, a solid miter saw.

[Tony Wilkins]

Just want to clarify something after reading another thread on another woodworker forum (and for myself) -- I don't want to buy tools just to buy tools; I want to buy tools to help me with my woodworking and aid in overcoming my physical challenges to the craft.

[Chris Hachet]

The LV router with a fence makes a respectable plow. No its not as fast as the dedicated plow but its not bad to use for it either. You pretty easily get in the rhythm, of taking a cut, then turning the knob, then taking a cut, then turning the knob until you get to the final depth. I used my router plane that way MANY times before I had the small plow and whilst it was a little slower it got the job done just fine. Just food for thought.This is good to know, as I do not have funds for both a Router plane and a plow plane right now.

[Chris Hachet]

I rarely reach for a plane larger than 9" long.

I'm not entirely sure what a #6 would do that my jack plane can't.
The router is one of the most useful tools in my shop. I would move that to the top of the list.

The block plane is rarely used in my shop. If you consider the LN skew block plane, with nicker - it's a little more useful.
It makes cutting dovetails a little easier in boxes and drawers. It can be pressed into other block plane duties.

For most of that sort of thing, I would prefer a decent spokeshave or #3 handplane.

The small Lee Valley Veritas plow plane is a very well made tool, but it's made for cutting grooves and little else.

*******

I would ask (if you have the time for it) have you considered taking a course of instruction with the gift?
It's well and good to have nice things, all the better to know what they can do.

Instruction will shorten your learning curve, and may save you money in the long run,
steering you away from tools you want toward the ones you actually need.I too find myself mostly reaching for smaller planes. Also can't imagine using a 36 in place of a #5, although when I use a #5 once in awhile I would like something a little larger.

[Chris Hachet]

Now you're talkin' You are right there. Good way to go !

OLD STREET ! OLD STREET !
you didn't tell us you had those !
No reason to fool around with those OTHER guys when you already have the best.
No seriously just use those.
I am jealous. I have one small OS coffin smoother before they stopped taking orders. I will some day own one of the big jointers (even though I said I don't need it ) I want to see what it is like to use a plane that big and light and straight and hardly needing any slicky on the sole.
Whoo weeee sounds like heaven to me. Hope I find one someday.

When you get 'round to making the dining table let me know. I got some things to say on that subject.
PS: I have the LV router plane and it is a very worthy tool. I am glad I bought it.
Be sure you have a good scrub plane LN or LV. You know that little short narrow dude for hogging off thick ribbons of wood planing across the grain (or diagonal which ever works best on the particular wood you are working).I pretty much would donate a Kidney to own a Coffin plane like that. Meifer Coffin plane is one of the most used tools in my shop, would love another small Coffin plane. Although the new Block plane that LV just came out with, in the $300 nickel version with the new blade, would be tempting also....

[Jim Koepke]

Got a gift and so now I have a good chunk to put down on some tools. Been moving things around in my head and here's what I have:

A) From LV
1) low angle smoother with pm-v11 blade
2) #6 fore with pm-v11 blade
3) dx60 block with pm-v11 blade

B) from LN
1) a bench chisel since I like my LN mortise chisel so well
2) a large router plane

Whatdya think? Should I get an extra blade for the LV Fore if I want to use it as a jack and a shortish jointer/try? I'm caught between the cheaper LV low angle smoother and an LN #3 or #4 - thoughts please? I'd also like an LV small plow but I'd have to drop something (maybe the LV block or the smooth plane).

Plane wise I have an old street jack and coffin smoother but after using a very poor example of a bailey #5 I like the feel of it better. Guess for that matter I could get either an LV or LN #5 and two extra blades to use it as a 'jack' in the full sense.

So, lots of thoughts that I keep rolling over in my mind.

Questions like these are difficult to answer without knowing all the details. Your personal needs and preferences should trump anyone else's opinions.

Not sure if you have ever mentioned your location, but if you are near my area, send a PM and maybe we can get together for you to test drive some of the options.

As far as my own preferences, the bevel down smoothers are preferred. They seem to produce a smoother surface with a close set chip breaker.

There are two #6 planes in my shop because they are very useful. Of course, that doesn't mean they would be the most useful for anyone else. With a sharp blade and light set, one can do smoothing duty. With a sharp blade and heavier cut, the other is good for cleaning pieces fresh off the saw or other rough cut lumber.

Both a router plane and a plow plane are very useful tools. My choice for a plow plane is usually a Stanley #45. Though a #50 recently came my way and that is great for light plow work and has been set up for a recurring plowing need.

The #45 can be a pain to set up, but once one learns the intricacies of its ways it is a fairly easy plane to use. It also delivers many more functions than a strictly plow plane.

Most of the time my router plane is used for cleaning up lap joints, tenon cheeks, or finishing dados. It is also a very useful tool in the shop. For me it is a bit cumbersome to use for plow work or rebates.

For me a block plane is mandatory in the shop. It is a tool of amazing versatility.

As for chisels, it is difficult to end up with too many of those.

My feeling is more bang for the buck comes from buying used tools. It is understandable that others would rather not do "the dirty work" of finding and fixing up old tools. That just leaves more for me from which to choose.

jtk

[Tony Wilkins]

Jim, I'm here in the center of the country at Fort Riley, KS. So far, in previous posts, nobody's claimed to be from this part of the country. Except for being a kid in a candy store, I could wait a bit. We'll be moving back to Lubbock, Tx at the end of the year (we hope). I haven't had the best of luck with used tools so far.

[Jim Koepke]

Jim, I'm here in the center of the country at Fort Riley, KS.

I think you may have mentioned that before. My folks lived in Junction City, KS until WW II when they moved to Oakland, CA.

jtk

[Curt Putnam]

Consider getting the BU jointer (# 7 size) and the BU smoother. The blades for both are interchangeable. I would (because I did) get the LV router - with fence and all blades.

[Winton Applegate]

bevel down smoothers are preferred. They seem to produce a smoother surface


I am not disagreeing with you; probably bevel down is best for the OP but properly sharpened bevel up produces a glossy almost reflective surface. The down side is bevel up may not cut as deep or for as long as a bevel down. Check out this bubinga. No finish just finish planed with my LV large bevel up smoother. And for the naysayers , no that is not a burnished surface it glues up fine and the glue etc., does not bead up. That is CUT not rubbed.

[Winton Applegate]

Curt,
Yep both are interchangeable. That is one of the ways I went and why. No futzy chip breakers to screw around with just budabing badaboom and back to planing.

To be fair the 4 1/2 BD blade and the #7 BD interchange and is the way Ian Kirby rolls. That is where I got the idea from of getting the wider finish plane over the narrower. Takes some horse power to push it though.

For the most part I might recommend going with a narrower finish plane if I did it all over again like the Old Street coffin.
Gets crazy having even more blades if not interchangeable say with a narrow metal smoother and the wider jointer.

Larry thinks I am insane for wanting more than one blade for my OS. Come to think of it he thought I was insane before I asked him for a spare. Of coarse he knows best.
:)