What do I need?

[Dan Case LR]

I'll be ordering a Jet 1221VS soon, probably next week. This is my first lathe, though I had extensive experience with turning really ugly lamps in shop class (And that was a LONG time ago!). I mostly want to turn bowls, but of course that may change as I gain experience. I know there's a lot more to turning than the lathe, and I've already picked out a face shield (Uvex Bionic Shield with Polycarbonate anti-fog/hardcoat lens). Right now I'm perusing chisels and gouges.

Any recommendations on starter chisel/gouge sets? I know there are lots of threads on this, but a search limited to the last year gave only two results with nothing useful. I need to reference what's on the market today, not in 2007. I don't have unlimited funds, but I'd rather spend a little more for tools that will last than buy cheapie tools I'll outgrow and want to replace in a few months.

It's obvious that turning can consume available cash faster than a contingent of IRS employees at a seminar. What else do I need to buy to get a good start?


Thanks!

D.

[Lee Koepke]

Welcome!
When I first started I got a starter set of Benjamins Best that included a bowl gouge and a few others. There are some that warn you away from 'kits' but for me, I still use most of the tools.

As I progressed, I bought a Thompson Bowl gouge - wow, its nice!

Very Very Very soon, you should be considering a slow speed grinder and a grinding jig to keep your tools sharp. It makes a difference. There are several threads on starter kits, it may take you a few combinations of search criteria to find the right threads, but I assure you .... they are here. I know because I used the collective wisdom here when I started.

[Dan Case LR]

Thanks, Lee. I have a Worksharp 3000, and I understand that with the tool bar attachment I can use Tormek jigs for turning tools. I'm a big believer in sharp tools!

D.

[Mike Cruz]

Dan, welcome to the Misery Loves Company Club. You are right that turning will suck the funds right out of you. But it is A) the most fun you will have spending that money, and B) a real way that you can actually support your addiction by selling your pieces (IF you ever decide to).

What do you need? Well, I would say, if you want to do bowls...as you've said you do, you ought to get a chuck. There are a bunch on the market. A good chuck will make things easier. You can spend the money and get a Oneway or Vicmarc, or you can go with a less expensive option. I've had both. I ended up with the Hurricane HTC chucks. They are, in my opinion, up there in quality with the Oneway chucks, but about 1/2 the price. You can find them on Ebay by searching Hurricane HTC 100 (there is a 125, but you will not likely need it for the size lathe you'll have). If you want only one chuck, the standard jaws will do just fine. You then have the choice/option (as we all do...but most of us take the latter) of getting extra jaws for the chuck, or getting a separate chuck for each set of jaws (so you don't have to keep switching jaws). I've got 5 of these chucks (and one more soon). They really are a great chuck, and 1/2 the price, or thereabouts, of the big name chucks.

Tools...well, I heard this when I first started turning, and I didn't "get" it. I do now. So, I'll try to explain it... Starter sets are a waste of money. You will get "okay" tools, and pay for all 6 of them. You will likely use 2-3 of the tools. So, you could have spent twice as much per tool, and gotten nice tools. The challenge is that you probably don't know which tools you'll need. And therein, lies the rub. Bottom line? You'll "need" three tools, so you might as well get good ones of those. You'll need a bowl gouge (most likely a 5/8"), a parting tool (1/8"), and a skew. Sure, there are a long list of tools that you could get, and likely WILL get, over time. But these three are kind of necessity tools. A great place to start is Doug Thompson's tools. Now the same guy that makes the Hurricane chucks makes a 5/8" bowl gouge for about $10 less then Doug. Is it "better". I can't say that. But my understanding is that it is supposed to be just as good.

You'll NEED a grinder to sharpen your tools, slow speed is best, but not 100% necessary. Woodcraft's slow speed grinder is just fine for about $100+/-. You have choices for wheel for the grinder. The white wheels are fine, but a CBN wheel is so sweet! Yeah, it'll set you back a bit, but IMO, well worth it. So much so, I got a second one. Also, you'll want (I really should say need, but...) the Wolverine sharpening jig. To go with that, the Varigrind attachment. Believe me, it makes repeatable sharpening a breeze.

Believe it or not, these are ALL basics. Do yourself a favor and invest in these. If you know you'll be getting into turning, you can't go wrong with them. Remember that the lathe is about 1/2 of your budget. One chuck (say $140), the three tools I mentioned (say $$225), and the grinder plus attachments (say $300) will be almost $700. And there is a lot more to get. But these are "necessities".

There is vacuum chucking, a LOT more tools, lighting, kits for pens and all the accessories that go with them, bottle stoppers, pizza cutters, ice cream scoops, coring systems, hollowing tools/rigs, the list keeps going. You CAN spend way more on accessories than you spend on your lathe. But for now, the above will get you by.

Best of luck to you, and your endeavors!

[Thom Sturgill]

I agree with a lot of what Mike said, but would add a good heavy 3/8 - 1/2" scraper to the mix, and a spindle gouge (3/8"). Buy unhandled tools and make your own handles, either wood or metal, and the price of the 'better' tools drops down in line with the 'good' tools. Be aware that not all High-Speed Steel (HSS) is created equal. M2 id better than just HSS and the Powder metal (also called Vanadium steel or cryo steel) better yet, but the latter tends to need CBN sharpening wheels to really get sharp. The carbide tipped tools want diamond wheels.

As to chucks, the Hurricane may be good, I can't say, but would take Mike's word. Nova (teknatool) sells refurbished chucks (G3 - $100 SN2 - $109 + about $21 for an adapter). The G3 is a good choice for that lathe, and the line is going to change soon to have quick release jaws and upgrade kits will be available, so if you decide you need a new jaw set later, it will not be as needed to dedicate a chuck body to it, and the old jaws will start showing up on the bay.

[JoAnn Duggan]

Dan:

I have had the Jet 1221vs for about a month now and I love it. It is so quiet and a solid piece of equipment. I am also a very new turner and I bought the Robert Sorby 6 piece turning set. I got a great deal on Ebay and I am very pleased with them. Good luck with your new lathe. You are going to really enjoy it. It is an expensive hobby but my only regret is that I didn't do it sooner.

JoAnn

[Dwight Rutherford]

Good suggestions above. I think it would be a great idea to go www.woodturner.org. Look up a local club in or around Little Rock. The club should have mentors available. You get a chance to talk one on one about tools and get some hands on with the various tools before you buy.

[Dan Case LR]

Thanks, all for your advice and comments. You'll be interested to know that after looking at my original plan for for sharpening I ditched that plan and ordered one of the Woodcraft slow-speed grinders from an Ebay vendor (woodcraft doesn't have them now), and I ordered a wolverine jig and varigrind attachment.

I'm leaning strongly toward picking up a minimal collection of Thompson lathe tools. Even if I change lathes, they'll be great tools that will follow me. Rather than spending $$ on Thompson's excellent-looking handles, I'll likely make my own initial handles using pipe nipples as outlined on the Thompson lathe tools site.

And yes, I've found a reasonably local AAW chapter and I plan to attend their July meeting and get connected.

Oh, and I think I'm going to order a lathe , too. :)

Thanks!

D.

[Mike Cruz]

Sounds like you are going down the right path, Dan. Best of luck!

[Thom Sturgill]

Rather than spending $$ on Thompson's excellent-looking handles, I'll likely make my own initial handles using pipe nipples as outlined on the Thompson lathe tools site.


Another option to consider:

get some 1" aluminum aircraft tubing (6061-T6) either .083 or .025 sidewall - a 4' length will make 3-4 handles
some aluminum rod - 7/8 if the tubing is .083 - 3/4" if the tubing is .025 - need about 1' to each 4' tubing
Speedy metals is a good source, check their ebay store.

cut the rod into about 3" lengths and drill to match the tool shaft diameter with just a little extra allowance. This can be done on the lathe with a chuck and tailstock mounted jacobs chuck. Harbor Freight sells an inexpensive Jacobs chuck with an MT2 taper.

Insert the rod into the end of a piece of tubing that you cut to desired length. epoxy or CA glue will work, but are optional

Drill and thread two holes for set screws - I used 5/16 because I already had a handle with that size, but 1/4-20 works well too. The set screw will lock the rod in place as well as holding the tool, but I epoxied mine.

Buy some clear pvc tubing 1" ID - I used the type with the nylon mesh embedded in it. Cut to length and soak in hot soapy water for a few minutes. You should be able to PUSH it onto the metal tubing. Turn a plug for the end if desired. You can even turn a plug that pushed in and allows weight to be added.

[Wally Dickerman]

Dan, do yourself a huge favor before you buy anything....Go to the club meeting and ask where you can get at least one turning lesson. It won't cost much but it'll be the best money spent in your turning venture.

A good instructor will help you with tool selection and get you on the right path on how to use them.

I applaude your decision to buy good tools to start with. I've never been able to understand turners who spend a lot of bucks on a lathe and accessories then burden themselves with cheapie tools.

[Mike Cruz]

Good idea from Thom, and excellent advice from Wally!

Dan, while Thom's idea of aluminum for the handle is very good one, personally, I've enjoyed and taken pride in turning my own. One is from cocobolo I brought home from my honeymoon. Others, in the making now, are inlayed. They took some time, but are coming out quite nicely. Doing this can also help you distinguish them readily. Just a thought, and fun, too.

[Thom Sturgill]

Good idea from Thom, and excellent advice from Wally!

Dan, while Thom's idea of aluminum for the handle is very good one, personally, I've enjoyed and taken pride in turning my own. One is from cocobolo I brought home from my honeymoon. Others, in the making now, are inlayed. They took some time, but are coming out quite nicely. Doing this can also help you distinguish them readily. Just a thought, and fun, too.

I have a few like that too, Mike, and even showed a couple on SMC, but I grew up in the home of a luthier (maker of stringed instruments). Just about every guitar or violin maker's shop that I have seen or seen pictures of, has been very utilitarian. Cabinet makers on the other hand, seem to spend many hours making beautiful cabinets and work benches to fill their own shops with. Nothing wrong with either viewpoint, I just tend toward the utilitarian, and for me there is more utility in the metal handles.

[Dan Case LR]

Once I get set up, I'll likely turn my own handles. At the moment, I find myself in the proverbial "chicken and egg" situation where buying good tools means either buying or making handles, and as much as I like the look and design of the many fine handles available to buy, I look at the price and say "Hey, that's another gouge!" Mike's aluminum handle idea sounds interesting, and so does the idea I found on Doug Thompson's site, using galvanized pipe nipples. Like most (but npot all) things, there is more than one "best" way. In either case I don't want to go any more expensive than necessary, as I want to replace them with turned handles.

Wally, your point about seeking some instruction before spending money is well made and taken--but a little too late. I ordered 4 tools from Doug Thompson last night and a Jet JWL-1221VS this morning. Having my beloved's blessing to make the investment (she got her new Husqvarna sewing machine last Friday, so she's all happy now!) and being a 12-year old boy in a 58-year-old body, I just didn't want to wait any longer. But I do intend to get some practical mentoring soon. As one who mentors the guys who will one day make me obsolete, I understand the value better than many.

D.

[Mike Cruz]

Dan, I'm not trying to nit pick, but the aluminum was Thom's idea...I said wood. I'm not taking issue with it, I just want to give credit where it is due.

I don't know how much aircraft aluminum costs, but there is an advantage to wood...it is usually cheaper. Just make sure you use hard stable wood. Don't use pine or poplar. Maple, hickory, ash, and those sort of woods are relatively inexpensive and readily available.

Of course, if you can get your hands on the aircraft aluminum for cheap or nothing (maybe if you have some laying around), then it might be a no brainer. I have never used an aluminum handle on a lathe tool. I don't know what advantages it might have over wood. I like the feel of wood handles. But as I said, I haven't used an aluminum one, so I can't compare the two. Maybe Thom can chime in on that.

[Dan Case LR]

Sorry, Mike. My brain's age is showing. :)

I suspect that handles are one of those areas where you could put two turners in the same room and have three (or more) opinions.

D.

[Mike Cruz]

Hey, no problem... I just wanted the record straight. I wasn't bent out of shape or anything.

And yeah, likely the latter...;)

[Thom Sturgill]

I didn't mean to hijack the thread, but since the question came up -

The aluminium would be about $10 plus shipping for a 4' length (3 16" handles) - that includes a 1' solid bar. Shipping was more than the metal :eek: for me. Add in about 6 set screws for about $3-4 at the BORG and the most expensive item - 4' of vinyl or PVC tubing at about $1.80/ft. My cost is between $10-$15 per handle depending on length. ($35 made three 14-16" handles)

If you are buying kiln dried timber, especially exotics, and brass fittings for ferrules, wood could easily cost as much or more. Cut off pieces of pipe and wood you have harvested and dried - well that would be essentially free.

Personally, I like the weight, the feel of the pvc tubing, and the ability to adjust the amount of steel sticking out of the handle. I can also reverse the blade to protect the edge if I take a tool to a meeting for a demo. The same handle purchased is anywhere from $40 to $75.

All that said, my Ellsworth hollowing tools (long handle), my scrapers, my skew chisels, and various home made tools all have, and will keep, their wooden handles.

And yes, get two turners together and get three opinions!:) Dan, do whatever you enjoy! You can use the tools un-handled long enough to turn your handles and start on your next project. The handle does not have to stay until the tool is used up. No crime in re-handling the tool later to turn a better (for you) shape, or replace it with a longer, heavier (or shorter, lighter, or thicker/thinner) handle.

[Dale Bonertz]

Dan,

A lot of good advice. Wally gave the most valuable in finding someone to spend time with in learning how to turn a bowl.

All that is needed to turn a bowl is a lathe (choice made - done), sharpening system (choice made - done). The next items I will give more detail why. For a starter bowl gouge I would recommend the oneway 5'8" double ended gouge with handle or make your own. I have many Thompson gouges 9great tools) but they are single ended and should be sharpened with CBN (great tool). The grinder you chose and the wheels on it will work fine on the M4 steel of the oneway gouge (very fine tool). The double end allows you to put a swept back grind on one end and a straight up grind on the other for finishing cuts. This makes your gouge purchase cheaper, to start, and you can add other gouges/tools later. Chuck decision should be based on flexibility since most chucks are good to great. Are jaws interchangeable, are the chuck keys interchangeable between sizes and etc. I am a believer in staying with one brand as you add chucks. Less keys and issues surrounding use. Make sure it comes with a screw so you can drill a whole in the blank and use the chuck with screw to rough it out. Again fewer things needed to get started with making a bowl. The last item needed is a angle drill for sanding and of course sand paper. With these few things you should be able to rough out a bowl and finish turn a bowl after you learn the technique from a mentor.

You can later add extra safety items such as dust collector and etc. You should go to your local supplier for safety equipment and purchase a P100 respirator, which is not to expensive, for sanding operations. You mention you have a face shield so you are now set to turn your first bowl. Have fun and be safe.

[Mike Cruz]

Thom, you are right, that is quite a reasonable price. I, for some reason, thought it would be more...

[Dan Case LR]

Thom, I'm reminded of something one of my writing mentors once taught me: "Every now and then, go back and pull something out that you wrote a few years ago. Read it. If it makes you sick to your stomach, that's a good thing--it shows you're growing in the craft. If you shrug and say it's okay, you're in trouble. When things stop growing they begin to die."

Applied to handles: When I turn my first handles, I'll use them until the flaws look so egregious that I'm ashamed to be seen with them in public. Then I'll turn new ones and keep the old ones to remind me where I've been.

D.

[Thom Sturgill]

Applied to handles: When I turn my first handles, I'll use them until the flaws look so egregious that I'm ashamed to be seen with them in public. Then I'll turn new ones and keep the old ones to remind me where I've been.

D.

Sounds like a plan. BTW, I love your tag line, been threatening to do the same.

[Dan Case LR]

BTW, I love your tag line, been threatening to do the same.

I like to think of shaving my head as co-operating with nature. :)

D.