What do you strike your chisels with?

[Mike Holbrook]

At the Barr shop they suggest a combination metal and rawhide mallet for timber framing that weighs 40 oz and they have mallets up to 44oz. The mallets they suggest for woodworkers are 20oz and they also offer 22 & 27oz models. Another poster on this page was asking about his 6oz Titehammer. The same post reveals that many types of mallet/hammer are being used. I thought it would be interesting to solicit posts on what hammers/mallet our members use on specific chisels.

I have: an old Wood is Good that I think was a present from a friend many years ago, 20oz Lee Valley metal mallet with wood inserts, mallets for plane blades, a couple dead blows and an oval head forged hammer from LV 8oz. You would think that was plenty of hammers but.... I just bought a couple Japanese hooped Koyamaichi chisels that I believe are designed to be used with specifically designed metal hammers something like the last hammer I mention but different.

Are hammers like clamps and chisels can we actually have too many?

[David Weaver]

I use a WIG mallet. If someone is in the room above my shop or if I have a headache, I use it on japanese chisels, too.

Otherwise, I have a 375 and 575g pair of japanese hammers. I tend to lean toward the heavier hammer for everything as it lets me use more of a feel of tapping the hammers.

If you can find a relatively flat face 15-20 ounce ball pein hammer at a flea market and make sure the face is smooth (sand it or whatever), you don't need to go to the expense of buying a japanese hammer.

[steven c newman]

265373265374Not sure of the weight of this one, or even where it came from.....

[Mike Holbrook]

David doesn't the little Wig fall off the mallet when you hit things with it? I guess if it wears a wig it must be some old english mallet?

Nice one Steven, you obviously used it a few times too, unless it's an "antique". You can probably add an oz or two to the weight with that BLO.

[David Weaver]

My wig is a crusty toupee. Actually, I saw a toupee in front of me at church last week that could've driven a nail by itself. It was a bad one, looked like an animal was laying on the top of the wearer's head.

Jimmy johnson's hair helmet might work as a mallet, too. He's kind of a tool.

[Lloyd Robins]

A Wood Is Good mallet (David's advise), a Japanese 375 gr. barrel shape hammer, a homemade purpleheart mallet, a Vaughan double face hammer, and a Grace 4 oz brass hammer. I would really love a Blue Spruce mallet, but oh,well, I will have to wait. I do not have a hammer problem, chisels, and planes maybe, but not hammers. :)

[Roy Lindberry]

At the Barr shop they suggest a combination metal and rawhide mallet for timber framing that weighs 40 oz and they have mallets up to 44oz. The mallets they suggest for woodworkers are 20oz and they also offer 22 & 27oz models. Another poster on this page was asking about his 6oz Titehammer. The same post reveals that many types of mallet/hammer are being used. I thought it would be interesting to solicit posts on what hammers/mallet our members use on specific chisels.

I have: an old Wood is Good that I think was a present from a friend many years ago, 20oz Lee Valley metal mallet with wood inserts, mallets for plane blades, a couple dead blows and an oval head forged hammer from LV 8oz. You would think that was plenty of hammers but.... I just bought a couple Japanese hooped Koyamaichi chisels that I believe are designed to be used with specifically designed metal hammers something like the last hammer I mention but different.

Are hammers like clamps and chisels can we actually have too many?

I have two basic mallets that I use with my chisels. I turned one out of soft maple for general use, and I use a joinery mallet that I made from hickory and black walnut if I need a little more persuasion, like when chopping mortises.

265379265380265381

[Mike Holbrook]

David, it must be the new avatar causing us to be reduced to pun..ishing humor!

Lloyd I made planes out of purpleheart it is certainly tough enough, good idea. Wish I had more left over purpleheart, guess I can buy more. Nice ones Roy I may have to make one or two too. What is the wrap on the soft maple mallet? It looks like a tennis racket wrap over a string.

[Frederick Skelly]

I use a large home made mallet made of 2x4 scraps. Resembles the rectangular one in Roys pictures. Thought it might be too light, being just pine, but it seems to work well enough.
Fred

[Mike Henderson]

I use a round carver's mallet.

Mike

[bob blakeborough]

I use one of Dave Jeske's Blue Spruce 16 ounce mallets. I love it and plan to be buried with it when the time comes...

[Tom Vanzant]

I use a 4 1/2" beech mallet for mortising and general DT work and a LV 24 oz brass/cherry journeyman's mallet for lighter DT work. I grasp the brass mallet like a pencil and tap with the end for more delicate work... may be time for a lighter mallet.

[Mike Holbrook]

I just remembered the wife found this one at an antique shop. I think she bought it because the name on the mallet is our last name. Apparently some Holbrook made hand tools some time in the past. This gives me a genetic link to tool making and excuses me from all pretense of sanity in relation to hand tools right! You guys don't think the wife would mind me borrowing that mallet and giving it a little more used appearance do you?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/16891057@N05/9168400442/

[Charles Bjorgen]

I've been lately using the one shown at left. It is a fairly small dead blow mallet with a weighted head and it"s been pretty handy to use. Five bucks from a local Menards. Top right is one I turned about 12 years ago from a chunk of sugar maple that was taken down in my yard to make room for a flower garden. The two below I just picked up this morning at a garage sale for a buck apiece. I think they'll be okay too.

[Lloyd Robins]

Mike, purpleheart is great once the project is finished. I love it when someone else is working with it. If I ever work with it again, I will wear leather gloves for the whole time. I think that I am still picking the slivers out. I gave my remaining supply to a friend who made me a pen out of it, is making us a turned bowl, and turned a couple chisel handles out of some oak. He even got a machinist friend to make and press on the strike rings. I think I made out like a bandit.

Roy are you a Rob Cosman fan? That looks like hockey tape on the soft maple mallet.

I have included a picture for no good reason.

265432

[Jim Koepke]

My two main chisel strikers are home made.

265443

The 2X4 looking piece of what appears to be oak came from a friend. I cut in the finger grips. This one is great for light persuasion taps to a chisel. It can also deliver a sharp wrap when needed.

The bigger of the two is good for medium force all the way to delivering hard blows to a mortise chisel set on going deep. It is made out of some wood from the firewood pile that was here when we moved in. A neighbor told me it is a type of cherry. It looks nice and I wish I had a lot more.



jtk

[Bruce Haugen]

I use one of three whackers:
1. A 1-lb dead-blow hammer
2. A WIG 20 oz mallet
3. A maple carving mallet I turned about 30 years ago.

BUT, I talked with Dave Jeske at the Amana show and witnessed him beat the living daylights out of one of his chisels with one of his mallets and I was incredibly impressed with both, but especially that mallet. After that beating, the mallet showed absolutely no sign of the pounding it delivered. The balance and the way it felt in my hand were perfect. I do believe one will find its way to my shop in the near future.

[Jim Neeley]

I have a number of mallets but generally use one of two.

For pounding mortises in hard maple I use a 20oz square-head.

For all other uses I greatly prefer my Blue Spruce 14 oz-er. The infused maple give a nice sharp rap without a big swing and the handle feels really good in my hand.

But then I subscribe to a "sharper chisel rather than a bigger hammer" whenever possible.


265458

Just my $0.02...

Jim in Alaska

[Winton Applegate]

I just use my forehead. Saves me looking for my dambed mallet all the time. I can't remember where I just put it.

Seriously though I like these :
http://www.japanwoodworker.com/product/156474/11oz-Fat-Chisel-Hammer-Daruma-Gennoh--Ohosyo.aspx
http://www.amazon.com/12oz-Weighted-Rawhide-Mallet-HAM-408-00/dp/B0058ECOYI/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&qid=1372565955&sr=8-12&keywords=rawhide+hammer

The rawhide mallet is for leather working and has a lead core for weight.
I like it for some wooden handled chisels that don't have metal hoops.
Careful of tossing these down on your bench they can mark up the top of a nice bench. I have cookie sheets and other shallow trays with leather or neoprene foam pads that I toss tools down on and it makes it quick to keep track of roley things or to clear the bench. In my shop there is always a kind of deep book case on big wheels that I keep near where I am working that can easily roll over cords and stuff on the floor that I toss the cookie sheets and long planes onto to clear away. Boy that was a long winded why not but anyway.
Some times the shelves are bare, some times they are a dump
Oh and be sure to add a few high tech hammer storage units (see last pic).

[Roy Lindberry]

Roy are you a Rob Cosman fan? That looks like hockey tape on the soft maple mallet.



Yeah, I got the idea from Cosman. When I first got into hand tools, I found his videos on youtube, and learned how to cut dovetails, and vastly improved my sharpening skills. So when I turned the mallet, and my sweaty palms gave me problems, I mimicked his hockey tape job. It really works, too. Not only does the mallet not slip, I feel like I have better all around control of it.

[Jim Koepke]

But then I subscribe to a "sharper chisel rather than a bigger hammer" whenever possible.

+1 on that.

Keeping a chisel sharp is the main reason nothing more than a firm tap is usually needed of my mallets except when cutting mortises.

jtk

[Jim Matthews]

I just use my forehead. Saves me looking for my dambed mallet all the time. I can't remember where I just put it.
Oh and be sure to add a few high tech hammer storage units (see last pic).

That would lead to a new definition for "depressed".
You Sir, are sufficiently prepared to join the "No 13th Hammer society".

This fraternal order is based on the notion that you must put down the car keys and avoid another hammer purchase
until you account for the 12 already in your possession.

I sent out a care package last month that contained many hammers.
Last week, what did I find myself buying?

...it's a sickness for which there is no cure...

[Jim Matthews]

While many of the mallets shown illustrate a basic principal of keeping the center of mass
concentrated near the point of impact, I don't recommend curved faces.

I find the round mallets lead to mis-hits off center and can drive my mortises sideways.
My favored chisels have a domed shape at the end of the handle.

Getting the tangents to properly align has been problematic.
Using a flat face as on my Stanley instills greater confidence.

It also won't roll off my bench.

[Mike Holbrook]

Some nice hammers/malllets! I have been thinking about a rawhide mallet for some time. Highland Woodworking has quite a little collection that I frequently fondle. So far one has not made it to check out though. Interesting that Winton's leather mallet is weighted as the unweighted ones I have played with seemed very light. I am curious about how a leather mallet might work on Ashley Isles or the new LV chisels, rounded handle heads without hoops. I would think it might be similar to a Wood is Good Mallet.

I suspect that the Japanese chisel hammers excel at sinking the chisel into the wood with minimal effort?

[Kevin Groenke]

Depends on what I'm chopping, but I generally prefer a compact round metal head.

The Lee Valley brass Journeyman's mallet is nice if a bit light for heavy work.

265488

Trow and Holden (http://trowandholden.com/store/agora.cgi?product=cat3) "round hand hammers" come in brass or steel in a range of weights (the handles on the steel ones are awful, but it's easy to turn one of your liking).


265490 265489


Highland Hardware (http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/brasscarversmallet2lb.aspx) has a 2lb brass one that looks nice.

265491

[Tony Wilkins]

I mostly use a WIG 20oz. I have the smallest titehammer that I had stopped using but may try again (see recent thread). I have an inexpensive gennou that I got for my japanese chisel. The only thing that would really get me to get more is the gennous. There are several of the hand forged ones that are very cool looking.

[Don Dorn]

Wood is good - good advise on the mortises, but I don't chop those very often, I'm more of a multiple dowel person.

[Chris Fournier]

I turned my own round mallet up using lignum vitae, great heft in a mid sized mallet - I do not tape it up like my hockey stick but I do eat back bacon and enjoy maple syrup.

[Derek Cohen]

Here are some the mallets/hammers I use with chisels.

My favourite gennou, for Japanese chisels ..

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Mallets%20and%20hammers/Cover.jpg

Blue Spruce round mallet for non-hooped chisels, Lee Valley mallet for mortice chisels, and Thor plastic hammer when I need to work quietly :)

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Mallets%20and%20hammers/Hammer1_zps336d8b60.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Winton Applegate]

Getting the tangents to properly align has been problematic.
Ha, Ha, ha, ha
that could be a line that could describe my entire existence thus far.
Obviously I agree with you if you look at my hammers. Now if I could just finger out what to do about the rest of my tangental alignment anomalies.

[Winton Applegate]

13 hammer club . . . a sickness for which there is no cure...
Well . . . I don't really qualify, assuming that is 13 for each craft, but I am working on it, truth be know there are many more hammers all around the shop but at the same time they are mostly metal working hammers; and I am not even a black smith though I did it enough for a while to know it is hard work and it helps to be ambidextrous.
I have eyed that cast bronze job with the wood pads though. That or the smaller square version of plane adjusting hammer with wooden pad on one end may be my next binge.
Here is a plane adjusting hammer that I made, might use it on the smallest carving work requiring a hammer. Lignum Vitae with hickory handle. Held together simply by wedge shapes at top and wetting and peening the end grain. Both faces flat but I plan to dome one of them a little soon.
For the info of the OP the barrel shaped Japanese hammers are flat face on one and slightly domed on the other face.

PS : posted one more but it disappeared some how so here is the photo of one of my favorite hammer for things other than woodworking. It is a smallish copper headed hammer. I don't know why I love you I just do.
Boy . . . I need to clean up my rolling bookcase like tool storage/dump thing.

[Stanley Covington]

I use Japanese chisels almost exclusively. I also own and have used many Western-style chisels, and have succeeded in destroying some of their handles with steel hammers, even so-called "framing chisels" with hoops, so I know their drawbacks very well.

For driving carving chisels without hoops, I use a wooden mallet and soft taps.

The idea of striking a chisel intended for cutting the deep mortises used in framing with a wooden, rawhide, plastic, or any hammer not made of steel seems silly and illogical to me. Anything but a steel hammer wastes some portion of the energy of the strike in deformation of the hammer, and lessens control of the cut. But with a weak chisel, a steel hammer will eventually break the handle. The answer? Use a chisel intended to be struck with a smaller steel hammer, and save the space in the toolbox a clunky wooden or other mallet wastes, as well as the expense and aggravation of replacing broken hammer heads and chisel handles. Do it right, do it once.

[Mike Holbrook]

So I remembered this scrap maple I have that is just the right size for, you guessed it a mallet. I even have some thin strips of purple heart that might liven the end product up. It appears that others have glued up heads for mallets. The two blocks of maple I have are actually about the head size I was thinking about anyway. I am thinking tapered heads, with a slight angle to the faces, kinda like LV's metal mallet but more rectangular and lighter.

So I am guessing Stu carries gennou. As I recall from a post a ways back Derek bought the head in his picture and made the handle. The thing is I only have two Japanese hoop chisels, as soon as they get here. I know it is easy to remedy that issue. Then I would have to do another whole research project on Japanese mortising chisels, although I do have some notes on Koyamaichi alternatives...Then I would have to look at Fujikawa too, as Stu's shop says they were THE mortising chisel back in the day...This is another of those in for a penny in for a pound hand tool deals right!

I searched Google & Yahoo for WIG mallets. I found everything but what I was looking for. Boy did I underestimate what I was getting into when I started this thread!

[Jim Koepke]

I use Japanese chisels almost exclusively. I also own and have used many Western-style chisels, and have succeeded in destroying some of their handles with steel hammers, even so-called "framing chisels" with hoops, so I know their drawbacks very well.

For driving carving chisels without hoops, I use a wooden mallet and soft taps.

The idea of striking a chisel intended for cutting the deep mortises used in framing with a wooden, rawhide, plastic, or any hammer not made of steel seems silly and illogical to me. Anything but a steel hammer wastes some portion of the energy of the strike in deformation of the hammer, and lessens control of the cut. But with a weak chisel, a steel hammer will eventually break the handle. The answer? Use a chisel intended to be struck with a smaller steel hammer, and save the space in the toolbox a clunky wooden or other mallet wastes, as well as the expense and aggravation of replacing broken hammer heads and chisel handles. Do it right, do it once.

My chisels are all western chisels. Only one or two handles have been broken by my two main user mallets. Both of those were from my early attempts at handle making. The financial outlay for both of them was essentially zero. At that price I can afford to let a little of my physical effort be absorbed by the mating of wood to wood.

Maybe someone will do a study to see exactly how much force is lost. Likely to come up with some esoteric idea of stowing mallets in a freezer to enhance their performance.

jtk

[Jim Matthews]

I did a course that involved lotsa mortises in white oak.
Never again. My elbow still hurts, six weeks on...


I'll chop dovetails, but mortises are a machine tooling op for me.
(I use a drill press, forstner bit and a fence - clean them up by hand the widest chisel that fits.)

A mallet stout enough to dampen the shock of chopping mortises is heavy.
Banging out one or two - sure.

More then four - I'm not Thor.

[Chris Griggs]

I thought it would be interesting to solicit posts on what hammers/mallet our members use on specific chisels.


For most stuff I use my "Katrina" Mallet. Its a turned mallet, that Archie turned from a piece of oak he found when he got back to NOLA after Katrina. He made couple of those and randomly gave it to me one day, and it has become my favorite mallet. You can see it standing on my bench in the photo below.

265540


I also have one of the WC knockoffs of the brass tite-marks mallets. I use it for all sorts of stuff, but I really don't use it much on my chisels. Its nice for things like hinge mortises where I want light very controlled hits but for most stuff I just use the "Katrina Mallet".

I also have one of those big stupid cheap rubber mallets that the BORGs sell (not a dead blow just plain rubber). I originally picked it up just for knocking stuff together and apart and other random tasks, but I've taken to using it for mortising because its got a nice weight to it and its quite. It probably absorbs a bit too much shock to be ideal, but it works for me.

Finally, I have a mallet that I carved a very detailed rendering of your face into. It only gets used when I really want to beat on something (I'm mean really REALLY wail) or when I am frustrated and just need to let of some steam.;)

[Steve Friedman]

[QUOTE=Mike Holbrook;2126664I searched Google & Yahoo for WIG mallets. I found everything but what I was looking for. Boy did I underestimate what I was getting into when I started this thread![/QUOTE]
WIG = Wood is Good. Sold at http://www.thebestthings.com/newtools/mallets.htm (and others)

Steve

[Mike Holbrook]

Thanks Steve, that answer was bugging me! You would think that since I have a WIG mallet I would recognize the abbreviation, but I guess not.

"Finally, I have a mallet that I carved a very detailed rendering of your face into. It only gets used when I really want to beat on something (I'm mean really REALLY wail) or when I am frustrated and just need to let of some steam.;)"

Chrisy are we having anger management issues? Have we taken our medicine this AM, drunk at least two cups of coffee and done our deep breathing exercises? Did someone get up on the wrong side of their bench this AM? Just remember some of us may be professional agitators who have learned to piss things off on purpose on a regular basis and even make a decent living doing it ;-) You could try putting a bite arm on and catching a few bite trained German Shepherds, it's a sort of transference thing, it works for me, which may be why I could barely walk when I woke up this AM.

Yes, Chris and I enjoy agitating each other on occasion. One day we may actually meet and no telling what will happen, I doubt anyone will actually get harmed. Still I think I will keep an eye peeled for that special mallet if I ever do run across Chris.

[Chris Griggs]

Chrisy are we having temper issues? Have we taken our medicine this AM, drunk at least two cups of coffee and done our deep breathing exercises? Did someone get up on the wrong side of their bench this AM? Just remember some of us may be professional agitators who have learned to piss things off on purpose on a regular basis and even make a decent living doing it ;-)

Hehe:D!

Daily medicine - Check
2 cups of Coffee - Check
Wrong side of the bench...Nah! I feel great today. I'm not sure why but for some reason I find it fun to pretend I don't like you:) . I don't even know how our silly back and forths got started..but I mean, you've got to admit its been quite a while since I've given you any grief. It was past due and I found this to be the perfect opportunity.

[Mike Holbrook]

If you say so! I'm still keeping my eyes peeled for that mallet. My big black male GSD is trained to retrieve a 3lb wooden dumbell that looks like two mallets glued together, maybe I can teach him to disarm a perp with club too;-)

So Archie made the Katrina mallet, I'm guessing I would use it too.

[Trevor Walsh]

An incredibly rare white palm dead blow mallet, there are only two of them I know of. It's such a well balanced tool that it feels like an extension of my arm. For heavier work I use a LV brass head cabinet makers mallet.

[Richard Shaefer]

maybe it's just me, but I despise round mallets, even for light chisel work. After going through a few commercial mallets, my favorite ended up being one I made for myself out of some scrap massaranduba deck rail posts and some red oak dowel. Don't let the size fool you. that stupid wood is harder and heavier than anything else I've worked with and it actually needs that pommel piece to balance it. It's soft enough that it wont' damage my wood handled socket chisels, but hard enough that it'll survive working with my steel butted 'scrub' chisels. Sometimes when I'm bored I make a batch of these hammers and give them to friends as gifts.
265690

[Mike Holbrook]

So I was just watching David Charlesworth, Chisel Techniques for Precision Joinery. I was interested to see Charlesworth hitting a LN, A2 chisel with a 375g Gennou, and claiming it was safe. I imagine that since it is a Lie-Nielsen production that he would be using LN tools as much as possible, still. It made me curious about the new LV PM-V11 chisels in terms of mallet/hammer choices for striking them. I believe the LV chisels are maple infused with a hardener that, at least in theory, should make their handles more durable than the LV handles.

I nominate Chris Griggs to test this theory. Yes, this is a reverse poke Chris, but one of benefit to all.

PS: it is not acceptable for Chris to claim he does not have a proper Gennou to test with, suggesting that I send him one! We all know he has the chisels ;-)

[Chris Griggs]

So I was just watching David Charlesworth, Chisel Techniques for Precision Joinery. I was interested to see Charlesworth hitting a LN, A2 chisel with a 375g Gennou, and claiming it was safe. I imagine that since it is a Lie-Nielsen production that he would be using LN tools as much as possible, still. It made me curious about the new LV PM-V11 chisels in terms of mallet/hammer choices for striking them. I believe the LV chisels are maple infused with a hardener that, at least in theory, should make their handles more durable than the LV handles.

I nominate Chris Griggs to test this theory. Yes, this is a reverse poke Chris, but one of benefit to all.

PS: it is not acceptable for Chris to claim he does not have a proper Gennou to test with, suggesting that I send him one! We all know he has the chisels ;-)

Haha:). I do have the chisels (only the 1" is PMV11 though, the others are 01). No, they do no have a hardener in them, but they are "baked" in some way that hardens the sap, so they are quite hard. I've hit them with a brass mallet before which is fine. Tiny little marks form at the tip but no dents or crack or anything.

I wouldn't want to wail on them with a metal hammer but my guess is that they could probably handle a pretty thorough beating. How hard was DC striking the LNs? Unfortunately, you are correct I do not have a Gennou, and I would suggest that you send me one. But since that is not acceptable, perhaps instead I could send you one of the chisels and you could slam your head into it repeatedly...that is likely harder and denser that a Gennou :p and would provide a true toughness test for the handles.

(P.S. Mike in all seriousness if you want to borrow one you are welcome to, anytime)

[Tony Wilkins]

In the video, he wasn't wailing on them -- more just gentle taps. LN does say they test their hornbeam handles with a metal hammer, but they don't recommend it.

[Chris Griggs]

Yeah light and even moderate taps I don't think would be a problem at all. I just wouldn't want to do any heavy hitting on them with metal. Things like hinge mortises, defining lines and most general bench work would probably be fine. Things like dovetails, I may or my not feel comfortable with a metal hammer, depends on how aggressively one chops thing like HB pins. I would think one would be able to tell pretty quickly how much is too much. I like my round wood mallet best anyway, so its not something I've every really thought much about. At the end of the day those hammers are made for chisels with metal hoops and its probably not a bad idea to keep use as intended. Not that I think it would necessarily be an issue at all if one REALLY wants to use a gennou on them, but personally I wouldn't want to play Russian roulette with a new set of expensive chisels if it wasn't necessary.

[Mike Holbrook]

I am going to have to take exception to my using my head to test this theory as I do not feel it is fair to use an object that full of rocks or that hard, then there are all those lumps... I have a 3/8" PM-V11 chisel Chris but thanks for offering. I am holding off buying more until I have more time to work with them and and my new LV Japanese Dovetail Chisels. I know LV is about to come out with more sizes too.

Charlesworth is making deep paring cuts in dovetails striking the Lie-Nielsen handles with the gennou and what I would term relatively delicate strokes. He also mentions several times that the LN, A2 chisels hold an edge longer than Japanese chisels, which I find difficult to put much faith in as a blanket statement. I think one has to take into account that there may be a commercial side to some of these publications.

I am thinking about ordering a 375g gennou to try, as much due to the weight as anything. The hammers/mallets I have seem to me to be either too light or too heavy. I think 13 oz would work well for general chisel use.

I have a another question regarding chisel edges that the Charlesworth video brought up in the dark recesses of my mind, guess I will revive an old chisel thread for that one though.

[Chris Griggs]

Yeah, I don't believe that A2 will out last good japanese steel. Maybe he was just comparing to whatever japanese chisels happened to be on hand? Not that I think I know more than DC about anything woodworking related, but that seems like and odd very general statement, especially considering that there is much more variety among japanese chisels/steel that there is modern western steels. I'm surprised he made it. He reads this forum, maybe he'll see this and clarify.

[David Weaver]

You mean Lie Nielsen chisels, right?

I thought that line a bit tough to swallow, too.

The benefit to the LN chisels, so far as I could tell, is that they are good quality and they're quick to prepare. If DC has classes where people are constantly bringing tools in that aren't up to snuff, then the LN chisels make sense as a suggestion. Why they chose to make them out of A2 is completely beyond me, though, and O1 is never going to hang with decent japanese chisels, either.

I don't know of anything that was as quick to prepare as the LN chisels when they first came out, though. Most of the other stuff available left something to be desired for preparation given that they (catalog chisels) were being sold mostly to beginners.

[Chris Griggs]

If only there were someone here who had the means and desire to test such things...:)

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/FourChiselSteelsCompared.html

[David Weaver]

I'd like to see more about the nezumi. I have one from stu but I've been tardy in getting to use it. Since derek is the one who would work with something that would actually push it a little (my piles of cherry and beech will do nothing to it).

(I don't want to infer BS chisel performance onto LN's because of the cryogenic treatment, though - that's something that could possibly make a substantial difference with chisels).

[george wilson]

I believe your mallet, Stephen, was made for stuffing meat into a meat grinder,or a sausage maker.

[Chris Griggs]

I don't want to infer BS chisel performance onto LN's because of the cryogenic treatment, though - that's something that could possibly make a substantial difference with chisels.

Yeah the LN chisels, what little I've used them, do seem to hold an edge really really well. Probably not as well as PMV11 or something like the KI steel, but for some reason they seem to outlast most other western chisels. I was under the impression that A2 was supposed to be wear resistant, but not particularly impact resistant, but as long as you keep them 30+ degrees (which I would for general purpose joinery chisels anyway) they seem to out perform most other western chisels I've used. No idea why. I know very little about steel. What l thought remember reading is, makes 01 seem better on paper for any chisels, but I've never heard nor experienced anything but excellent retention from the LNs (I guess its something about the cryo treating then?)

[David Weaver]

I had a couple for a short period of time. I set them up around 30 degrees and they definitely lasted longer and were more abuse tolerant (including the mortise chisels) than any vintage chisels I have.

Actually, the steel as it was for the mortise chisels was quite dandy. They were tough, but I ran into miyanaga mortise chisels for a less than the price of LN chisels and didn't need LN sash mortise chisels in addition to them.

[Mike Holbrook]

I made a post earlier but due to a conection problem or a problem with SMC I could not get it to post. Basically, other than harassing Chris, I was reporting my early comparison of the PM-V11 vs Lee Valley Japanese dovetail chisels which I recently purchased, specifically in light of the Charlesworth chisel video.

I was just reporting that I found the PM-V11 chisel designs, especially the exceptionally well manufactured edges, conducive to detailed hand work. The edges I saw on the LN chisels Charlesworth uses are well made too but not as sharp or steep as the PM-V11's. I was thinking the specific design of the LV chisels is a reason for their popularity as well as the hard steel. The KI chisels "strike" me as the better chisel for the large parring jobs using a steel gennou .

Charlesworth demonstrates how to skew the front corner of his Lie-Nielsen chisels, during dovetail parring work, so as not to "bruise" corners or walls. I think the LV, PM-V11 chisels will excel at this work. Charlesworth uses a 375g gennou and light taps to remove larger portions of wood in dovetails, which is where I think the LV Japanese (KI) chisels will excel.

I doubt the PM-V11 chisels were on the market when Charlesworth's video was made. It seems obvious to me that any video Lie-Nielsen invests in will tend to favor their tools, as is only reasonable. I would not fault Schwarz, Charlesworth or anyone for representing the interests of those they work for. I am glad we have guys like Dereck who have the tools and difficult woods to test tool performance in the most difficult situations. I tend to place more faith regarding tool selection in Dereck's reviews than most. Charlesworth's video helped me to see more clearly specifically where the two chisels I purchased are apt to get used. Now I am thinking it would be nice to tap those KI chisels with a 375g gennou instead of one of Stephen's "meat tenderizers". The problem with Derecks posts is I end up trying to justify buying every tool he has! The post of the gennou he made has been haunting me.

[David Weaver]

Yeah, that chisel video was made several years ago. Still, I don't think charlesworth has used any LV products in his videos (they are produced by lie-nielsen). I don't know if he's still associated with lie nielsen, but the chisels he uses in that video are lie nielsen chisels and not LV.

I had that video at one time (maybe i still do, not sure), and I can't remember the make of the japanese chisels, they were either tasai or kunikei. User of tasai's wares would probably get a chuckle out of a recommendation of LN over tasai for any reason other than price.

[Mike Holbrook]

I have an urge to make or buy a round head gennou. Derek's post of the one he made has been haunting me. Most of the ones I find are square, which may work, but I think I would prefer not to have corners. The hammers and mallets I have seem to fall in either the 8oz or 16oz+ category and I would like something more like 350g- 375g, 12-13oz. I have wood to make a handle which might be interesting although the prices on Stu's hammer handles are almost to low to pass up. Apparently there are vendors who sell just the head allowing the purchaser to customize the handle. I just do not find these sources in my searches. I imagine David or someone could shorten my searching process.

Knowing Derek, he probably turned the head for his hammer from a piece of Japanese boat anchor he found while scuba diving off the coast of Japan. I don't mind a little work with my hands if it nets something my hands like to use though.

[Gordon Eyre]

I just built this shop mallet and it seems to be perfect for my use.



270271

[David Weaver]

I have an urge to make or buy a round head gennou. Derek's post of the one he made has been haunting me. Most of the ones I find are square, which may work, but I think I would prefer not to have corners. The hammers and mallets I have seem to fall in either the 8oz or 16oz+ category and I would like something more like 350g- 375g, 12-13oz. I have wood to make a handle which might be interesting although the prices on Stu's hammer handles are almost to low to pass up. Apparently there are vendors who sell just the head allowing the purchaser to customize the handle. I just do not find these sources in my searches. I imagine David or someone could shorten my searching process.

Knowing Derek, he probably turned the head for his hammer from a piece of Japanese boat anchor he found while scuba diving off the coast of Japan. I don't mind a little work with my hands if it nets something my hands like to use though.

A lot of the high-end heads are sold without a handle. They are above my pay grade for gennous, I just have the old style that woodcraft offers (offered?) in 375g or so and the barrel style that Japan Woodworker has (whatever the biggest one is - 570g or something). I've never been able to get as cranked up about japanese hammers as I can about their cutting tools and natural stones - it's still going to be metal striking wood. I tend to use the bigger barrel style hammer more, but quite often use a urethane mallet on japanese chisels even though it can offend the sense of some (rightfully so). Sometimes, I'm just not up for the sharp striking noise of the gennou on a chisel handle.

[Jim Koepke]

I'm just not up for the sharp striking noise of the gennou on a chisel handle.

The thought of hitting one of my chisels with metal kind of makes me cringe. Though it is a practice used around the world, it just isn't for me.

On to:


I have an urge to make or buy a round head gennou. Derek's post of the one he made has been haunting me. Most of the ones I find are square, which may work, but I think I would prefer not to have corners.

Is there a metal dealer, scrap or otherwise, in your area where you could buy a hunk of brass you could work yourself?

You might even be able to find a sculptor who works in brass or bronze who could supply you with a workable solution.

jtk

[Jack Curtis]

The great Japanese gennou are made just like blades, hard steel wrapped around a core of soft steel (OK, blades aren't wrapped like that, just layered); and they're a joy to use.

[Tony Wilkins]

Some of those higher end gennou are just gorgeous. I've been sorely tempted but I have abstained so far.

[Max Withers]

Several hundred dollars and a couple months ago, when I thought I'd just need a couple chisels and a Stanley #4 to build a bookcase, I got some Narex chisels and a 16 oz. Crown mallet from Lee Valley. Both are Beech, both the mallet and the mortise chisel I've used most heavily are beat up (patinated), and both will be fine.

In retrospect, I'd rather have a heavier mallet for 1/2" mortises. Also, I'm not convinced that a hideous plastic deadblow hammer wouldn't be better.

Edit: Even though the Narexes are hooped and relative hard wood, I'm not sure I would use steel on them. Easy enough to make a new handle though, if you want to experiment.

[Mike Holbrook]

I did not realize gennou got that complicated or expensive. The ones I found were 15- $40. I am making a small wood mallet from some scraps I have but I want know what it will weigh until it is finished.

I am interested in the idea of a brass head. I found a brass hammer at Highland, not exactly what I was looking for but the description was interesting "Brass hammers provide mass for gentle persuasion, but won't damage important surfaces. Perfect for woodworkers using wood handled chisels." Apparently Highland Woodworking thinks brass is kinder to wood handles. I have the small Lee Valley brass plane hammer with the wood insert on one side. I found out that hitting hard plane irons with the brass side does not deform the plane iron but it does scar up the brass. I'm not thinking it would be a good idea to hit wooden chisels with the scarred brass side of the plane hammer. A brass head hammer devoted to striking wood chisel handles might have merit though. There do seem to be a good many small brass carving mallets.